Daiwa magnetic seal service

Started by ReelClean, August 30, 2014, 04:51:53 AM

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ReelClean

If it doesn't offend any convention folks, may I post a link to a thread on another site concerning my success at replenishing the magnetic fluid?
let me know, thanks.
Specialist Daiwa reel service, including Magseal.

alantani

anything that is fishing related is fine. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

ReelClean

#2
I have been working on this Mugseal problem for a while and I am now rather chuffed to say the least! I have developed a process and substitute product to replace the offending oil. I have temporarily named this much sought after fluid "Unobtainoil" in honour of, to distinguish it from, and to avoid confusion with, the original manufacturer's "forbidden to us mere mortals" product. I have tried to obtain the genuine product from Daiwa service and they will not sell to anyone, repairers included, so I have taken the time to research and develop an alternative product and technique which I believe is equally robust. It is early days, but initial testing (as much as I can do including heat/cold/waterproofing) looks pretty damn promising. I have cleaned, repaired and upgraded a large number of spinning and baitcaster reels over the years, but have until recently avoided the later Daiwa reels due to the difficulty of dealing with the magnetic fluid seals. Recently I decided to bite the bullet and bought off ebay a used '10 Certate 2506.It came without an exploded diagram and parts list so I proceeded to carefully deconstruct it for a full clean and service (I have since found a schematic online; ain't it always the way  ). Upon removing the rotor nut and rotor I discovered that the fluid seal was gone, with only a few smudges on the magnet plate, AR sleeve and bearing; and some reddish, muddy debris. Apparently as the surfactant in the mixture ages this can happen as the particles clump together. I cannot tell whether it dried up or maybe washed out or dried by water or a solvent, but there was no liquid portion left to form a seal. A lot of pulling apart and reassembling of the rotor/AR bearing parts led to a few observations:The AR bearing sleeve (the inside part that the pinion shaft runs through) is the inner surface, the bearing retainer plate you can see contains the magnet on the inside circumference. On the first photo you can see the remains of the fluid on the green AR bearing outer.It was during this breakdown that revealed the first difficulty with this reel. To actually inspect the seal you need to lift the rotor because the bottom of the rotor has only a poofteenth clearance from the top of the bearing plate. This is all fine and good as dirt etc cant get in, but there is a snag! The chrome bearing sleeve that you can see actually locates around a flange on the bottom of the rotor with a light grip such that when you remove the rotor the AR sleeve comes out with the rotor and destroys the fluid seal. Additionally, if you try to return the AR sleeve back through the bearing plate it drags magnetic fluid into the AR pawls with it. I don't know whether this is a common trait or just unique to this model reel, I suspect I will need to service several different models of Magseal reels to find out. Alan Hawk did not mention it in his review of the '10 Saltiga. At present I haven't devised a way to stop the rotor dragging out the AR sleeve, so to reassemble you need to wash all fluid out, lube the sleeve and place in the AR bearing, replace the bearing plate and then replenish the magnetic fluid seal. AFAIK at the moment that is the only way to get the fluid to stay where it should, but I will ponder some more and may need to work on a few different models to nut it out.



Okay,I suspect this is the part you have all been waiting for:and a picture is worth a thousand words, so........Here is my first attempt at replenishing the fluid. I actually overdid it a bit and have since refined it and use less fluid. It didn't seem to matter as the stuff seems to coalesce no matter what, but I decided to lose some to avoid the chance of splatter.Folks, please allow me to introduce Unobtainoil in it's first service.
Specialist Daiwa reel service, including Magseal.

ReelClean

#3
I was sitting back the other day playing with the '10 Certate and had one of those "you eeediiot" moments . As noted I was having trouble removing the rotor without disturbing the magseal. It suddenly dawned on me that all I needed to do was apply a little back pressure against the antireverse and it locks the AR sleeve in the bearing and stops the rotor from pulling the sleeve out while you gently rock the rotor off the pinion shaft. Amazing what a glass of scotch can do to enhance one's cognitive powers. Oh, and the Unobtainoil is still right where it should be!
I have also done another 10 Certate and a Caldia which was only three months out of the shop (purchased new by the shop manager straight off the shelf) and it had the same dried up mud, but not to the same extent, only traces and the seal was still largely intact. The Caldia gets fished hard so should be a reasonable test.
Specialist Daiwa reel service, including Magseal.

exp2000

Congrats ReelClean.

I have also looked for a solution to this problem but failed to find a viable substitute.

I hope your solution proves to be a winner.

Something I mentioned to the Daiwa techs was that a more powerful magnet could be used to extract the old stuff when changing the ferrofluid during a service.

Have not tried this myself though.
~

Ladd

How has it been holding up?  Where can I get some of that Unobtainoil  ;D ?  I have a few non-US Daiwa reels that I'm not sure if Daiwa USA will service and I need to find a solution to replenishing the magnetic fluid.

ReelClean

Sorry Ladd, been a bit distracted of late.
I have recently spoken to the owner of the test reel and plan to get it back soonish to check on the Magseal.
I can't see why Daiwa USA would not replenish the seal for you, it is not reel specific and Daiwa Oz quoted about $10-15 just to replenish.  You only have to reintroduce the oil into the seal gap and Robert is your father's brother!
Try them on and let me know how you get on.
cheers
Steve
Specialist Daiwa reel service, including Magseal.

ReelClean

#7

There has been a lot bandied about the web about Daiwa Magseal.  Many (myself included) have avoided buying the reels due to the perceived difficulty of replenishing the magseal oil.   I have been working on a substitute (which I somewhat cheekily named "Unobtainoil" in recognition of it's predecessor) for some time now, having been refused supply many times by Daiwa.

Responses on other fora have ranged the whole gamut from disparaging to encouraging, but finally
the process is revealed.

Excuse the shaky hands, it ain't easy for blind old b@st@rds to do fine work working remotely off a handycam screen

Note how the old oil is GONESKI!!!



Right, that's the hard part.
Points to note:
1) The method to remove the rotor without pulling out the ARB sleeve, just put back pressure against the Antireverse and hopefully the rotor comes off without the sleeve attached. As you can see sometimes they need careful manipulation. Once you get the magnet plate loose, it requires a bit of VERY careful work to get the sleeve and magnet plate out as a unit. If you bump it against the shaft or anything and it dislodges from the position just proud of the mag plate then it smears all the mag oil down the sleeve outer and it's all over, you can never collect it up for reuse because it has residual magnetism and will stick to everything else. If that happens (or should I say when, I am just starting to get comfortable with it) then you can only clean up the lot, put it back together and replenish in situ. Do not try to replenish first then refit, it just doesn't work. (Guess how I came to know all this???) If you have managed to remove it as a unit be careful how you put it down.
2) The real fun starts when you go to replace it. The best method I have devised is to take your tweezers and lock them pressing OUTWARDS on the INSIDE of the sleeve/plate assy, then slide it over the pinion and down into the ARB. You MUST have all the motive force on the sleeve, not the plate, otherwise the sleeve will hang up in the ARB on the way in and the plate/magnet will continue downward and smear all the oil down the sleeve. In the event of that happening, buy some Unobtainoil, clean it all up, and return to step one. (Guess how I came to know all this???) OR, send it to Daiwa.
3) As noted, the easiest way is to start with everything cleaned up and put back together. All you have to do then is reintroduce the oil back into the gap and watch the magic happen. Some things to note: this stuff is as thin as and seems to have a mind of it's own. You cannot just tip it in because once the magnet gets a hold of start of the drop it just pulls the whole lot in and keeps emptying the tube. (Guess how I came to know all this???) Don't tip it in from above or you will not stop the flow, I have found the best way is to keep the tube just below horizontal and squeeze gently so that when the gap is full you just release your grip and the oil breaks the magnetic bond with itself and runs back into the tube.

So there it is......
I have not done 5 years of rigorous testing on Unobtainoil, but it now seems satisfactorily installed under the rotor of my two '10 Certates, replacing the genuine oil which patently had disintegrated completely. From personal experience to date working on magseal reels, I don't see that the genuine stuff is demonstrably any more robust than Obtainoil, but I guess time will tell!

cheers
Steve
Specialist Daiwa reel service, including Magseal.

dutchy17

Very interesting. There are many waiting for the long term results of your "Unobtainoil". Wish you the best of luck.
Why is everything i love either illegal, immoral or carry's a health warning!


Rothmar2

Reelclean supplied me with some of his sourced magseal fluid for a Daiwa Dogfight 7000.
The reel was not running on very well after spinning the crank and taking your hand off the ball.
Turned out the original fluid had gone "tacky", but not disappeared.
Cleaned all the old fluid off the rotor seal, then refilled as per instructions from posts here and viewing the YouTube clip.
Reel now runs smoothly, and owner is happy.
Thanks for the prompt supply of the fluid Reelclean. It certainly looks, and acts the part.
Will revert down the track if/when I get the reel back again and comment on durability.

handi2

I serviced 2 Daiwa Ballistic reels today with the pinion mag seal. I was able to carefully lift the top cover including the roller clutch sleeve without disturbing anything. I just lifted all of it as a unit and put it in a safe place.

It went back together easy after having the pinion gear, clutch sleeve, and cover lined up for a drop in fit. At no time did the clutch sleeve and the top retainer loose their fit. No oil was disturbed.

You just need patience.
OCD Reel Service & Repair
Gulf Breeze, FL

alf78

Hi guys,

Any update on the unobtainoil ? How is it holding compared to magseal oil

ReelClean

#13
Perhaps Rothmar2 can chime in, his customers seem to give their Saltigas a good workout?
I haven't had one back or in for service since I posted, so I can't give you any updates.  Have any of you guys in the US hit up Daiwa over there for some magseal oil now that is allegedly available for sale?
Specialist Daiwa reel service, including Magseal.

Rothmar2

Have done a couple of Certates as well as the Dogfights as posted earlier. I keep in regular contact with one of the Certate owners, and so far so good. The dogfights wouldn't have been used much since service, our season will fire up soon though. Will give further feedback around June next year on the Dogfights.