Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Shimano Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: alantani on December 07, 2008, 04:25:58 PM

Title: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on December 07, 2008, 04:25:58 PM
first, the schematic from shimano....

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TR_2000LD-ARB_v1_m56577569830570239.pdf

here's a stock charter special.  these reels had seen several years of service and were in pretty bad shape.  the handle turned easily on one but was rough on the other.  freespool time on one was only a few seconds, but that is par for most levelwind reels. the freespool was zero on the other.  both reels had pretty jumpy drags, even at a light setting.  not a good thing for salmon.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00502.JPG)

the first thing to come off is the lever assembly, including the pre-program dial (key #115), the dial spring (key #82), the lever shaft body and "O" seal (keys #116 and 10), the drag control lever (key #117) and the lever thrust ring (key #84).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00513.JPG)

remove the lever quadrant (key #121) and screws (keys #19, 20 and 21).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00522.JPG)

back out the five side plate screws (key #122) and remove the right side plate as a unit.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00532.JPG)

remove the spool assembly as a unit.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00542.JPG)

note the wear marks on the right side of the spool.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00551.JPG)

it is a common problem for these graphite frames to "swell."  i use a dremel and the cutting bit #117 to cut away at the inside of the graphite frame, just enough so that the spool doesn't rub.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/hispctr1.jpg)

add a little grease to the metal clicker assembly (keys #140 and 209).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00563.JPG)

remove the spool cap and drag pressure plate as a unit.  note the reverse threads.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00571.JPG)

here's a photo of the original canvas drag washer next to a penn ht-100 drag washer (part #6-5600).  use a dremel to hand cut the inside hole to match the stock canvas shimano washer.  note that you can now buy a carbon fiber drag washer from smoothdrag.com

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00581.JPG)

back out the four click gear screws (key #135), remove the click gear (key # 134) and the main shaft assembly.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00591.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00611.JPG)

the shields of the three spool bearings can be removed and you can see the dried grease inside.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00631.JPG)

after cleaning out the grease with carb cleaner and compressed air, the bearings can be lubed with corrosion x or reel x.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00641.JPG)

switching out thin pre-load washers (bellevilles) for thicker ones will ramp up the drag pressure more quickly and give you a higher drag at strike before you lose freespool.  the thin preload washer B's (key #44) on the right will be switched out for the thicker preload washers from the shimano tld 20/30 two speed reels (part # tt-0040A).  the orientation of these belleville pressure washers remains "()".

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00621.JPG)

interestingly, the thickness of the stack of thin bellevilles....

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0066.JPG)

is about the same as the thick bellevilles....

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00671.JPG)

here is the reassembled washer stack with bearing. reinstall the spool shaft assembly, the click gear, the two right side spool bearings (keys #213) and spring (key #37).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00681.JPG)

those of you that prefer a dry drag can either re-install a new canvas washer (part #tld-0129) or use a the penn ht-100 without grease.  my preference remains to grease this washer using shimano or cal's drag grease, applying a thick coat to both sides of the drag washer.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00691.JPG)

install the gooped up washer.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00701.JPG)

wipe off all the excess drag grease until drag washer basically looks dry.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00711.JPG)

now, just a side bar comment.  note the rubber gasket of the spool cap....

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00721.JPG)

and the metal lip on the drag pressure plate assembly.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00731.JPG)

when the drag lever is at strike and the reel is engaged, this metal lip mates up with the rubber gasket and seals up the drag chamber to keep water out.  the take home message is this.  rinsed off your shimano lever drag reels in the "strike" position.  all other lever drag reels should be rinsed in "free."

here's an example in the second reel that was probably rinsed with the lever in the "free" position.  note the rust in the right spool bearings.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0094.JPG)

install the pressure plate assembly.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00741.JPG)

install the spool cap and pinion gear.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00751.JPG)

install cross pin B (key #50) and place the spool assembly back into the frame.  the spool should slide easily back into the frame.  

IF THE SPOOL DOES NOT SLIDE EASILY BACK INTO THE FRAME, ROTATE THE SPOOL SHAFT 180 DEGREES AND TRY AGAIN.  

this works.  i have no frickin' idea why!

now, this reel felt like a coffee grinder when you turned the handle.  this rusted right main side plate bearing (key #212) is the reason.  to get the to bearing, you have to remove the handle.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00761.JPG)


remove the handle lock screw (key #1), the handle lock (key #2), the handle nut (key #3), the gear shaft shield (key #5), the gear shaft thrust washer (key #6) and the main gear (key #8).  the dog (key #26) and the brake collar (key #190) will fall out as well.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00771.JPG)

pry out the right side plate bearing.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00781.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00791.JPG)

the old bearing was too badly rusted, so i pulled out a new one....

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00821.JPG)

and packed it with heavy grease.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00831.JPG)

reinstall the new bearing and dog.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00841.JPG)

install the main gear, the rotate the dog clockwise until the gear "drops" into place.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0085.JPG)

install the handle assembly.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0087.JPG)

install the brake collar.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0088.JPG)

reinstall the right side plate.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0089.JPG)

install the quadrant.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0090.JPG)

install the lever and pre-set dial.  make sure the lever is in the free position and drop the lever shaft body into the lever so that they mate up.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0091.JPG)

there are several handle options available.  be creative!

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0092.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/206100_0117.JPG)

the spools of both reels will now spin easily.  both of these reels have only 5 seconds of freespool, but that is because of levelwind mechanism.  without the levelwind assembly, the spools probably would spin for 30 seconds.  both now have a max drag at strike of 15 pounds before losing freespool.  and both have a smooth drag from 1 pound up to 15 pounds.   the total time required for service, including time to clean out the bearings, was an hour.  
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on August 04, 2009, 06:51:45 PM
Quote

To: Alan Tani
Subject: TR2000 Charter special problem

Hey mate, just though I'd drop you a line and see if you have any ideas
what might be causing a problem with my charter Special.  Problem is
that when you wind the drag up the spool moves across toward the right
of the reel causing the clicker to not mesh on the side plate.

I've stripped the reel down and rebuilt it a couple of times as per your
rebuild diagram on Pierfishing.com website.  I just cant seem to tell
whats causing it?  Wondered if you had heard of such a problem before?

The problem seemed to start after I let a mate use the reel on my boat
one day. I'm pretty sure that he wound the preset drag up too much then
pushed the leaver forward. I striped it down to check and a couple of
bearings were rough so i figured either old or overloaded by my mate,
but other than that i cant seem to see any damage internally or any
missing parts.  Hope you have some ideas mate.



i've not come across this problem personally.  of course, check the washers and bellevilles on the left side of the spool to make sure that things the washers are in the stock configuration.  could the click gear be loose? 

here are the schematics http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/techdocs/en/TR2000LD_v1_m56577569830498941.pdf

it is important to space the spool properly on the left side.  you can also hotrod this thing pretty easily.  to do this, you need the bearing (pretty obvious), a pair of heavy belleville washers (part #TT-0040A) from the two speed tld 20/30 two speed.  you also need a small thrust washer (part #tld-0043) from the charter special inbetween the bellevilles and the bearing.  that way the bellevilles do not bind up against the bearing under the higher pressures that you wil be submitting the reel to.  this will increase the drag range to 15 pounds.  you can also shim the right spool bearing (key #23) by placing the remaining two thrust washers underneath the right spool bearing.  these two thrust washers are key#43 and #72.   this actually works pretty well!  please let me know how this works out.  thanks!  alan





Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on August 19, 2009, 07:24:10 AM
well, here it is!  the topless frame for the shimano charter special by tom hrynuik.  the workmanship is beautiful.  i have frames for both the TR 1000 and TR 2000 models.  the great thing is that the charter special will deliver 15 pounds of drag with great freespool and no side load on the right main side plate bearing.  yup, it's an avet killer.  better even than the old shimano tld 5's and 10's.  load up the narrow TR 1000 with 50# spectra and a 30# topshot.  the wide spool TR 2000 can be loaded with 65# spectra and a 40# topshot.  add an oversized kolekar grip and you've got a pair of great live bait rigs.

with this run, there was one small problem.......

(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_18_08_09_10_08_38_0.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_18_08_09_10_08_41_1.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_18_08_09_10_08_46_2.jpeg)

well, kudo's if you noticed it in the photos above.  yeah, the front crossbar is too high.  the top edge of the front cross bar is dead even with the top of the arbor of the spool.  on a winding machine, that is not a problem.  when the reel is on a rod, however, there is a slight downward angle taken by the line.  when you get to the bottom of the spool, the line hits the crossbar.  there are no sharp edges to slice through the line, but it is still not right.  of course, if you're hung on a big fish that takes you down that far, you've got bigger problems than the cross bar. 

(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_18_08_09_10_10_29_1.jpeg)

we clamped this reel onto a calstar 270 and it took several wraps before there was enough height to clear the bar. 

(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_18_08_09_10_13_37_1.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_18_08_09_10_13_41_2.jpeg)

well, not too bad for a first effort.  i bought all 25 of the TR1000's and 25 of the TR2000's and i'm going sell them at half price.  that's $55 for the narrow TR1000 frame and $58 for the wider TR2000. 

(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_18_08_09_10_15_46_1.jpeg)
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on August 29, 2009, 07:22:06 PM
reprinted from http://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfishing-forum/240195-topless-frame-charter-special.html with permission from captain archer

Quote



Captain Fred Archer
Senior Member


Join Date: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 219   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alan,

That Charter Special is, well, a special reel that didn't get the attention and reception that it should have. However, the fact that it is still around (?) bespeaks the fact that more than a few good fishermen came to realize what a great reel it was/is(?) As you know, basically, they are TLD's with an exceptional levelwind that did what none before them did - they stood up to saltwater gamefish, including big ones, that no other levelwind system before them could ever remotely approach.

The first year that we introduced the reel we started with two weeks of fishing them our of Oregon Inlet with some of our customers and reps. We made daily stops at some of the towers for big AJ's. Those donkeys couldn't hurt them. Then we used them down in Key West for a couple of weeks of daily fishing with other customers and reps for dolphin, blackfin, and other offshore species, and the most brutal test of them all, tarpon fishing in the harbor. It was a time when there were big numbers of big tarpon there and they really put the boots to the reels and got their fannies handed to them. We flat wore out most of our customers! Many jack crevalle, some cobia, big permit and grande mutton snappers were also caught. None of the reels so much as hiccuped during those daily beatings.

Then we took them down to Texas for another couple of weeks of beatings, this time by kingfish, cobia, and sharks, along with some tuna and dolphins. The reels were not service, other than standard lubrication, between trips.

Then it was on to two weeks of albacore fishing out of San Diego during the heart of a good albacore run. Once again, we and our west coast customers and reps fished them hard every day. Even moreso than the other venues, this was an area where levelwind conventional reels were considered for sissies and pieces of junk that the levelwinds blew up on when they met their first pelagic fish. It was really interesting to see our customers out there realize that the levelwinds didn't blow up on these and on top of that, they had the best drags that they had ever fished with.

In the end, when those reels were finally opened and inspected, their innards looked nearly brand new. Great reels, they were!

Of course, the reason why the line touches the front crossbar when there is only a little on the spool is because of the abscence of the levelwind, which the line rode on, so it didn't touch the crossbar itself.

I'm glad to see these terrific reels still being appreciated by sharp fishermen and reel guru's such as you, Alan.

Best in Big Game website and online store, www.fredarchersworldoffishing.com
__________________
Author of Pro's Guide to Catching Dorado on SpreaderBars, Spreaderbar Bible, Wahoo Bible, Bigeye Tuna Troller's Bible, Best Marlin Lure & more. 



Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: whalebreath on November 13, 2010, 07:53:42 PM
Looks like one of my Charter Special TR1000s is an older model.

As per the pic it lacks the studs for #190 Brake Collars altogether, also no brake collar ring.Note water incursion although none made it onto the old canvas drag washer-both now replaced with Smoooth Drag units as per the tutorial.

(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3347/imgp2970.jpg)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1008/imgp2971h.jpg)

In addition the (older?) small bearings look to be completely sealed there is no way to access the race inside so I guess I'll just drench them in Corrosion X-the large bearing is the same as the one in the tutorial although the Shimano tech who serviced them last time installed the bearing wrong.

No discernible difference in performance between this and the TR1000  I just did-of course they are strictly Salmon downrigger trolling reels and the finely tuned nuances desired for live baiting aren't needed nor are higher drag settings.

Thanks to Alan for the tutorial it's really helped me in more ways than two fingers can type and the service from Dawn @ Smooth Drag was exceptional.Shimano also sent out two brake collars for the other reel in record time/free of charge. 8)

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: CaptKev on January 10, 2011, 11:15:21 PM
I have to say kudos to Alan for this particular tutorial. I've never loved my charter specials 1000's more! I own 6 of these reels and was prepared to replace them. These are used for the Albie's that frequent the OR/WA waters during the summer months. Before the modifications, I frequently had to push the lever drag beyond strike to slow down the 25-30# plus sized Albacore and casting was nearly impossible except for the most seasoned fisherman.

So I tore each reel down following Alan's detailed advice. I used the thicker belleville washers, but ran into difficulty putting the spools together and maintaining freespool. After trying to install the click gear assembly, the washer configuration was too thick for the new/thicker bellevilles. After playing with it for a few days (no lie), I ended up removing the preload A washer (#72) and replacing it with one of the thinner preload B washers (#43) and this solved the problem. I may have to replace the B washers regularly, but it isn't a big deal.

Using grease in all the screw holes, I ran into an interesting problem on one reel. I couldn't find any Yamalube, but the Evinrude/Johnson is a pretty blue color too. It might be a tad thicker than the Yamaha brand too? When I screwed down a click gear screw, I heard a loud POP! I backed out the screw thinking it had snapped inside the spool. I started to screw it down again and heard a slightly quieter POP sound. Then I saw what happened. The grease coupled with the fine thread mini screw created a seal within the threads. When I tightened, it literally bubbled the aluminium on the inside of the spool. That little metal  bubble sliced the poop out of my fingertip too, WOW...but all was not lost. The bubble was only about as big as a ball point pen tip. Using a utility knife I sliced away the material, dropped some black paint on it and it's good to go! I decided not to use a power screwdriver on the remaining screws. Oops.

So now I can get at least 15# of drag before losing freespool at the strike setting. On 4 of the 6 reels, I can get almost 4 passes (36' of line out) of the line guide before losing freespool. The other 2 reels are barely 3 passes, but it gives me some casting ability that I never had before! I also added 4/0 Kolekar handles too. No more cramped fingers after a few dozen albies! The thicker bellevilles and greased carbon fiber drag really suped up the stock drag system with a more versatile range. These half dozen reels still have a place on my boat for many years to come.

My reels did not have shields on any of the bearings. I used Corrosion block (all I had) on the spool bearings and grease on the main bearing. I can't wait to get these out on the water again! These reels  had 3 seasons of use before teardown. Even though the bearing grease was a bit dry, none of the bearings had to be replaced. Not bad for 100% saltwater use in my opinion. 

Thanks AGAIN Alan,
Kevin     
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on January 10, 2011, 11:34:01 PM
glad everything worked out!  just so you know, i'm down to a dozen frames ........... ;D
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: CaptKev on January 11, 2011, 01:49:44 PM
I'm still thinking about the frames...the thought of multiple bird's nest from multiple clients at the same time is holding me back.  :'(
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: LochSloy on May 14, 2011, 07:06:52 PM
Hi Alan,

Thank you for an excellent thread, I am in the process of refurbishing a TR2000 which was given to me by a friend, I have completely dismantled and cleaned it, but I am having difficulty in removing the main gear, it revolves freely but it is firmly stuck on the end plate.

Your help would be appreciated.

Yours aye

LochSloy
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on May 15, 2011, 04:39:24 AM
remove the handle and tap on the top of the drive shaft.  that should free it.  the drive shaft and main gear are a single unit.  alan
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: LochSloy on May 18, 2011, 07:32:00 AM
Hi Alan,

Thank you for your assistance, I managed to remove the main gear as you suggested, unfortunately I have another problem.

After carefully cleaning, greasing and oiling the reel and assembling it, I now have another problem. On occasions the lever drag remains stuck in the free position, to free it, I have to manually turn the spool, this then frees the lever drag. Other than this the reel runs completely free, the handle turns like a dream as does the spool, about 5 seconds on free spool.

Your thoughts on this matter would be appreciated.

Yours aye

Drew 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on May 18, 2011, 05:19:24 PM
so the lever is in the free position, then it is difficult to push to strike?  that might happen at very heavy drag settings, say 15 pounds (7 kg) or more.  turning the handle should not affect that.  curious.  when you say lever drag, you are talking about the lever itself, right?
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: LochSloy on May 18, 2011, 10:44:28 PM
Hi Alan,

The drag is set light, the lever moves across to the full position most of the time then occasionally it locks solid and wont move until i manually turn the spool, it then moves freely. The handle moves freely all of the time.

Yours aye

Drew

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on May 19, 2011, 10:01:43 PM
got it!  first guess is the lever shaft body (key #116) or any part that it touches.  check the inside of it and look for damage.  alan
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: bchen on September 26, 2011, 03:16:10 PM
Hey Alan,

Can a Charter Special handle a Kolekar grip? (Or anything better than the stock grip.)

Thanks,

Bernard
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on September 27, 2011, 11:48:27 PM
yes, i change out the old handle arm for a stainless steel one.  then you have a  choice of a 2/0 grip of a 4/0 grip. 
Title: Re: charter special tr /2000
Post by: Hadge on February 06, 2012, 04:02:15 AM
I'm having a problem with a Tr 2000
Once I tighten down the Drag control level and the level shaft body the drag control level will not move. The level shaft body locks on to the square end of the main gear shaft.
I check all the parts, but I'm stumped on this.
Any help??
???
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Bryan Young on February 06, 2012, 06:09:51 AM
Sounds like the drag control know (drag pre-set) is too tight.  You may want to check that right side plate bearing as it may now be damaged due to the pressure.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Hadge on February 06, 2012, 01:56:15 PM
Thanks Bryan,
I'm missing the concept on these drag levers.  I can do the star drags but this is my first lever drag fix.
I would guess what tightens the drag is pulling the main gear shaft towards the drag lever.
But once the square slot of the lever body connects to the main shaft it all stops!
I will see if loosening the pre set will help.
Thank you
Hadge

???
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: akfish on February 06, 2012, 04:04:13 PM
Remember: Never adjust the preset knob except when you are in free spool. To your specific problem, I suspect one of two things is happening. Either the cam is installed incorrectly or the pinion bearing is fried. The Charter Special is a great reel but really can't take more than about 8 or 10 pounds of drag without doing damage.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Hadge on February 13, 2012, 04:43:04 AM
Yep, I did not have the reel in free spool, that's all it was.
Like you say make sure your in free spool when replace drag lever.
Thanks for the help.
;D
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: striper_tamer on February 23, 2012, 11:08:00 PM
Alan,

I noticed on the Charter special tutorial, you are holding the reel with a rod clamp.  Is this an after market rod clamp because I don't see one on the schematic for the charter special?  I have a TR200-G and was wonder if a rod clamp can be added.  I would assume the rod clamp for the TR2000LD would fit the TR200-G. If so, do you sell the rod clamp or knows where I can find one?  Thanks.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: whalebreath on February 25, 2012, 01:43:24 AM
The first rod clamp looks like an old Backbone-Charkbait has some but I'm not sure the company is still in business.

http://www.charkbait.com/cs/csr_Reel-Clamps.htm
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: striper_tamer on February 25, 2012, 09:59:49 PM
thanks, I'll give them a call.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: day0ne on February 26, 2012, 07:47:45 AM
The standart Shimano rod clamp that fits the TLD's and many other reels will work on a 2000. A TR1000LD doesn't have holes. so you have to use something  like a Tiburon TCU-M
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Pinfishkiller on April 01, 2012, 01:08:20 AM
I bought a used Charter Special 1000 and am in the process of rebuilding it.  From reading some of the previous post in this thread, the reel I purchased does not have the brake collar or the blue studs.  This indicates that I have an older model Charter Special, correct?  But other than lacking those items, the reel rebuild is pretty close I take it.  I bought some spool bearings and a drag washer from Smoooth Drag and plan on installing them during the rebuild. I am new to this forum but in a very short period of time I have noticed it has a wealth of great help and info.  Thanks
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: day0ne on April 01, 2012, 05:35:51 AM
Quote from: Pinfishkiller on April 01, 2012, 01:08:20 AM
I bought a used Charter Special 1000 and am in the process of rebuilding it.  From reading some of the previous post in this thread, the reel I purchased does not have the brake collar or the blue studs.  This indicates that I have an older model Charter Special, correct?  But other than lacking those items, the reel rebuild is pretty close I take it.  I bought some spool bearings and a drag washer from Smoooth Drag and plan on installing them during the rebuild. I am new to this forum but in a very short period of time I have noticed it has a wealth of great help and info.  Thanks

According to Shimano, the missing brake collar and brakes is the newer model reels. They quit putting them in for some reason. If you can find the collar (no part number), you can still order the brake pads. The Shimano reel repair guys found me a collar but it took awhile.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Pinfishkiller on April 01, 2012, 05:50:33 AM
Is it worth getting the collar and brake parts?  I plan on using the reel for some light trolling in the Gulf for Spanish, Reds, etc... The levelwind feature is great when you take multiple kids fishing.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on April 01, 2012, 05:22:52 PM
Quote from: Pinfishkiller on April 01, 2012, 05:50:33 AM
Is it worth getting the collar and brake parts?  I plan on using the reel for some light trolling in the Gulf for Spanish, Reds, etc... The levelwind feature is great when you take multiple kids fishing.

don't worry about the pins.  i usually just pull them out anyway.  and welcome!!!!!!
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on April 01, 2012, 05:24:00 PM
Quote from: striper_tamer on February 23, 2012, 11:08:00 PM
Alan,

I noticed on the Charter special tutorial, you are holding the reel with a rod clamp.  Is this an after market rod clamp because I don't see one on the schematic for the charter special?  I have a TR200-G and was wonder if a rod clamp can be added.  I would assume the rod clamp for the TR2000LD would fit the TR200-G. If so, do you sell the rod clamp or knows where I can find one?  Thanks.


the wider reels have a clamp.  the narrower reels do not, and they are not really needed.  alan
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: DEA on April 09, 2012, 11:45:22 PM
Hey fellas, why are the drag numbers so far off compared to the factory specifications?

Meaning, after upgrading/servicing 15lbs at max versus "advertised" at 33lbs?

Granted, I would expect it to vary, but by 50% less?

Not to mention going from fiber to carbon fiber drag material?

Also, how close are the line capacity numbers?
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: redsetta on April 10, 2012, 12:22:29 AM
G'day DEA, the factory specs on the Shimano (North America) site are incorrect.
As AK mentioned earlier, the Charter Special (in standard spec) can't take more than about 8 or 10 pounds of drag without doing damage.
Cheers, Justin
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: DEA on April 10, 2012, 12:39:00 AM
Thanks a bunch Justin!

Surprising how far off the spec's really are though.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Thubert57 on July 06, 2012, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: alantani on April 01, 2012, 05:22:52 PM
Quote from: Pinfishkiller on April 01, 2012, 05:50:33 AM
Is it worth getting the collar and brake parts?  I plan on using the reel for some light trolling in the Gulf for Spanish, Reds, etc... The levelwind feature is great when you take multiple kids fishing.

don't worry about the pins.  i usually just pull them out anyway.  and welcome!!!!!!

Glad I read this.  I was spinning the spool and one of the blue sleeves flew off, hit the garage floor and is now lost ... forever.
Thanks,
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Bryan Young on May 22, 2013, 02:21:13 PM
Can you post photos of your spool?  There is no way we can help if we don't know what you are seeing.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: day0ne on May 22, 2013, 09:20:55 PM
Spool looks fine. On the left side are 4 small screwws that you remove to open the left side. On the right side there is a cap with a nurled edge that is as big as the spool end that you unscrew. Note that it is a reverse thread (righty-loosey, lefty-tighty). All of this is either explained or shown in the tutorial. You shouldn't skim the tutorial but take it step by step. BTW, the spool should be aluminum not plastic "The middle is just a plastic tube?"
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: redsetta on May 22, 2013, 09:58:45 PM
G'day Ruben,
They're the same.
If by "geared structures" you're referring to the pinion gear, it's still in the right side plate bearing.
dayOne has you on the right track.
Twist the drag cover clockwise, as indicated, ie you should see the word 'Unscrew' and an arrow, as pictured below.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00751.JPG)

They can be a bit tight, but just try wrapping a cloth around the notched edge and twist.
Let us know how you get on.
Good luck, Justin
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Keta on May 22, 2013, 09:59:16 PM
Quote from: mrbrklyn on May 22, 2013, 09:39:47 PM
reverse threaded is counterclockwise?

Reverse (left hand thread) is counterclockwise for in clockwise for out.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: day0ne on May 22, 2013, 10:05:09 PM
Keta is correct. Clockwise to unscrew. I occasionly have to use a rubber strap wrench on one to break it loose, but they are usually hand tight. There isn't anything that is really breakable, as long as you turn it the correct way. As said, there should be an arrow on the cap.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: redsetta on May 23, 2013, 01:58:52 AM
G'day Ruben,
Grasp the nurled outer edge of the drag cover, ie 12 and 6 o'clock in the below pic.
The arrow is shown in red:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_06_08_17_3_06_11_203101187.jpeg)

Hope that helps.
Good luck, Justin
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: redsetta on May 23, 2013, 04:27:52 AM
Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, that's the pinion gear, which will be in the right side plate - still attached to the main bearing.
Good luck, Justin
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Ron Jones on May 24, 2013, 07:01:50 PM
This is a brand new reel, if the spool spun when you turned the handle prior to tearing it down the the pinion gear is somewhere. It is either in the bearing, on the spool shaft or on your table. It is in the "most important" category of parts, you need to find it.

Congratulations on taking the plunge and working on your new reel.

Ron

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: day0ne on May 24, 2013, 08:34:20 PM
Quote from: mrbrklyn on May 24, 2013, 07:06:12 PM
I do have something like that, the gears, but it wasn't attached to the cap, just slipped onto the axel of the spool.

Ruben

That is the way it is supposed to be. It isn't attached to anything, it slides on the spool axel and seats in the bearing. On used reels they sometimes stick either in the bearing or the cap.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on July 15, 2013, 01:09:50 PM
Hey Alan,

Still trying to get the cost of the drag washer for the 2000 reduced in cost.  Likely barking up the wrong tree, but I found 1/16 inch and 2 mm quasi carbon fiber sheets that could be suitable for drag washers. Think called Dragon Plate and is epoxy laminate with different surface products.  At $24 for a 6X6 sheet, maybe 6 washers could come from lots of work.  Maybe not enough savings if the material is appropriate for the purpose as the washer might be about $5 each?  What's your thought?

                                                              Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on July 15, 2013, 05:31:03 PM
stick with carbontex.  they are cut properly and they are the right thickness.  there is a penn drag washer will work, but you have to bore out the center with a step drill and it's a real hassle.  i use to do that but gave up when dawn came out with a carbontex drag that fit. 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Robert Janssen on July 16, 2013, 08:47:25 PM
Quote from: fishy76 on July 15, 2013, 01:09:50 PM
Hey Alan,

...but I found... ... Dragon Plate and is epoxy laminate with different surface products... if the material is appropriate for the purpose...
                                                              Fishy76

This an epoxy laminate, as used in structural applications like tennis rackets and bike parts, not suitable for friction applications. Use Dawn's material or HT-100.

.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on July 17, 2013, 05:54:21 AM
Quote from: alantani on July 15, 2013, 05:31:03 PM
stick with carbontex.  they are cut properly and they are the right thickness.  there is a penn drag washer will work, but you have to bore out the center with a step drill and it's a real hassle.  i use to do that but gave up when dawn came out with a carbontex drag that fit. 

Hey Alan,

Just opened a TLD 15 and was amazed at the simplicity as compared to the charter special 2000.  Both worked well for the Cow striped bass I've boated.  However, some fishermen can't handle the lack of level wind and let  the spool high center, kind of a disaster. 

BTW, I didn't realize that the spool of the charter special was aluminum?  The bearing 213 in the right spool cavity had to be pounded out and was blue.  I had no idea that the bearing could get so hot.  Maybe heat transmitted from the drag?  I wonder if the previous owner of this reel saw smoke?  Well, working on E-Bay charter specials has been enlightening.  Most end up being over priced and near the cost of new.  It's true, "buyer beware" as the exterior hides the interior damage.

Think I tried to communicate with Dawn, but I don't always know if my effort to communicate actually makes the trip.

Thanks for a great forum that certainly enlightened me and saved my bacon!

                                                               JTB
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on July 17, 2013, 02:50:35 PM
Quote from: alantani on July 15, 2013, 05:31:03 PM
stick with carbontex.  they are cut properly and they are the right thickness.  there is a penn drag washer will work, but you have to bore out the center with a step drill and it's a real hassle.  i use to do that but gave up when dawn came out with a carbontex drag that fit. 

Hey Alan,

Knew I would mess up and strip a graphite screw hole.  How do I fix it?  Thanks for helping,

                                                                 Joy
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: day0ne on July 18, 2013, 05:05:17 AM
Quote from: fishy76 on July 17, 2013, 02:50:35 PM
Quote from: alantani on July 15, 2013, 05:31:03 PM
stick with carbontex.  they are cut properly and they are the right thickness.  there is a penn drag washer will work, but you have to bore out the center with a step drill and it's a real hassle.  i use to do that but gave up when dawn came out with a carbontex drag that fit. 

Hey Alan,

Knew I would mess up and strip a graphite screw hole.  How do I fix it?  Thanks for helping,

                                                                 Joy

Call Shimano. They have some over sized screws for just this problem. 877-577-0600, 5:00A - 5:00P PST, Mon - Fri
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: redsetta on July 18, 2013, 09:14:37 AM
I usually cut a little strip of copper and insert that into the screw hole...
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on July 18, 2013, 06:54:49 PM
Hey Alan,

OK with calling Shumano for the larger size screws, but I sure dislike mixed screw sizes.  Like one size fits all.  Will epoxy  stick to the graphite?  For other projects, I have coated the treads with grease and/or placed saran on the screw.  Hmmm, now just how did I do that?  Was the epoxy liquid steel? 

More to learn,

                                                                     Fishy76

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on July 19, 2013, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: alantani on July 15, 2013, 05:31:03 PM
stick with carbontex.  they are cut properly and they are the right thickness.  there is a penn drag washer will work, but you have to bore out the center with a step drill and it's a real hassle.  i use to do that but gave up when dawn came out with a carbontex drag that fit. 

Hey Alan,

Hope to get the carbontex drag washers and Cal's drag grease today so I can get on with reel maintenance; however, on several of the older E-Bay reels, I removed all the shields and packed the bearings with reel butter or hotsauce.  In looking back at the tutorial, seems that only the main gear bearing is heavy grease lubed and the interior bearings have Extreme X / Corrosion X applied.  The latter seems to be a light oil somewhat like the Abu Garcia silicote reel oil.  Should I clean 'em all again and use the "Extreme X" on all the interior bearings?

Another question is about the spring washers.  You recommended increasing the thickness by using the TLD spring washers.  Seems that this small increase in thickness/spring tension is intended to ramp up the drag quicker from free spool to the strike drag weight.  Seems that this may increase the actual maximum drag at full lever, but not sure how the strike weight interacts with the full lever?  One reel didn't have a thrust washer inside the pinion guard.  I added one and seems like this is similar to increasing the thickness of the spring washers?  Is a thrust washer necessary inside the pinion guard?  Seems like the schematic shows the thrust washer outside the pinion guard, yet in the factory new reels, the thrust washer is inside the pinion guard?

OK one more question.  I seem to have trouble tightening the reel handle so it isn't loose on the shaft.  When it's tight, sometimes it makes the shaft/gear friction so tight that it's uncomfortable to reel.  Should I leave the shaft free to move in and out a bit?  The thrust washer seems like it's either too thick or too thin.  I'm thinking that any added work to spin the handle will be tiring with a fish on?

                                                                      Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on July 19, 2013, 10:44:38 PM
stick with corrosion x.  it's good stuff.  if you are happy with the performance of your reel having bearings greased. leave them be.  bearings will last longer if they are fully packed with grease.  the changes made by adding the thicker bellevilles are exactly as you describe. a thrust washer is generally needed right next to any bearing, but the bellevilles serve that purposer well enough.  whether you use thick or thin bellevilles depends on how much drag range you need.  for the handle, you ideally want zero load and zero freeplay.  shim it if there is too much freeplay, pull a washer or carefully file down the collar that holds the drive shaft if there is a load. 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on July 20, 2013, 01:13:46 AM
we need photos!!!!   ;D
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on July 21, 2013, 03:38:52 PM
Quote from: alantani on July 19, 2013, 10:44:38 PM
stick with corrosion x.  it's good stuff. .  .  .

Thanks Alan,

I have several of the thicker spring washers.  I tried it on one reel and it worked OK.  I also exchanged the TLD 15 handle with the stock 2000 handle and what a difference.  Ordered 4 more TLD handles! :)  Much larger knob and about 3/4 inch greater radius for leverage. 

Decided to clear the stripped hole in the frame of the 2000 and fill with JB Weld.  Will likely insert a tooth pick while the epoxy hardens.  The tooth pick will easily drill out.  If the Tight Bond sticks to the frame, the problem will be solved. 

Don't have the Yamaha all purpose marine lube (blue) yet.  Won't get to my favorite boat shop until later this week. 

Cal's drag grease went quickly with changing out 10 drag washers.  Then, this is likely an upgrade once in the life of the reel.  Yet, the seasonal maintenance will happen as needed.  Solvent chase the old grease and re-lube .  .  .  Sort of like my boat trailer buddy bearing caps mean new seals and cleaned bearing and re-lube.  A thankless task, but it's better than a breakdown on the side of the road.  Nothing worse than to have to change a hub in sub zero temperatures.  Always happens during a blizzard, below zero temperatures, and no place to warm hands. 

Again, thanks for  your advice about maintaining my 2000s. 

The COWs may not appreciate the smooth drag and being boated, but it's my quest.  This year, my goal is a 60+ pound striper.  Maybe even get into Tony Ghecko's 60 + pound striper club records. :)  Some say I shouldn't target the COWS and only do the schoolies.  I look at the bunker factory ships taking the striper food and the commercial boat netting thousands of stripers and dumping them in the ocean as destructive to the fishery.  If the scientists inform me that the fishery is in danger of low stocks, I'll work with the correction.   

John Kerr reservoir in VA/NC has a spawning population of striped bass.  The VDIGF maintains a constant monitor of the population of striped bass and their healthi in the Virginia water shed.  I help with gill net surveys that demonstrate the health of several species in Kerr.  In warmer waters, the striped bass mortality when released by a fisherman is near 90 percent.  Too much stress caused by the fight, the water temperature, and gill maggots.  The longevity of these fish is about 8 years, so releasing larger fish may not improve the fish population. 

I certainly enjoy re-reading Shawn Kimbro's "Chesapeake Light Tackle Striper Fishing".  His web site is always informative!

OK, back to the reels and an attempt with JB Weld.

                                                                  Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on July 22, 2013, 07:52:23 AM
Quote from: redsetta on July 18, 2013, 09:14:37 AM
I usually cut a little strip of copper and insert that into the screw hole...

Hey Redsetta,

My attempt with JB weld failed, so Ill try your idea.  May have to order the larger replacement screw for the future.  As frequently as I take my reels apart, I'm sure I'll damage another down the road.  Thanks for your advice,

                                                         Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on July 22, 2013, 03:24:57 PM
i would use a small thin sliver of copper from the hardware store.  i have found that copper works the best.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on July 25, 2013, 05:06:11 PM
Quote from: alantani on July 22, 2013, 03:24:57 PM
i would use a small thin sliver of copper from the hardware store.  i have found that copper works the best.

Hey Alan,

Couldn't get the sliver of copper to hold and went with a #6 brass wood screw of the right length.  Drilled the side plate for the larger diameter.  Won't ever have a problem identifying the reel with the brass screw!  Well, it worked .  .  .

                                                          Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on July 29, 2013, 06:20:27 PM
fair enough!   ;D
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on August 02, 2013, 07:03:29 AM
Quote from: alantani on July 29, 2013, 06:20:27 PM
fair enough!   ;D

Hey Alan,

Did it again, bought a tr2000ld off EBay and figured that the $40 that included shipping would give me some frame parts, etc.  But, it wasn't all that bad if I used some of my stock parts.  The right end cap spool bearing was siezed and I didn't have your special tool to get it and no way to bend a screw driver.  Slipped a 4 penny nail point in from the inside and caught the nail head in the space between the bearing and the cap body and drove  the bearing out.  The click pawl was trashed and I replaced it.  The cross pin was frozen and most impossible to get out.  Did the deed, but took some fine filing to restore operation.  The pinion gear seems quite worn, but didn't replace it.  The other bearings were sound and given fresh lube.  Changed the bellevilles as you suggested, but noticed that there was a thrust washer on both sides of the bellevilles.  I left them in place.  The drag washer seemed to have been lubed, so I replaced it with a stock from another reel.  Didn't have a carbontex available.

OK, reel reassembled and the lever works.  The spool will spin free for about couple of seconds.  When the lever is advanced from the free spool position, the effort to crank becomes increasingly difficult and reduces at full lever.  At very low drag settings, the crank effort is very light.  I can remove the thrust washer away from the bearing and see if it lessens the crank effort.  Maybe them blue drag weights?  But thought to ask what you think might be causing the heavy crank effort.

Maybe I should have kept my original thought and just used it for parts .  .  .

Thanks for any suggestion/recommendation,

                                                    Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Bryan Young on August 02, 2013, 07:45:51 AM
Sounds like your pinion bearing needs to be replaced.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on August 02, 2013, 03:10:51 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 02, 2013, 07:45:51 AM
Sounds like your pinion bearing needs to be replaced.

Thanks Bryan,

Cleaned up the pinion with a file (is quite worn), and removed one of the thrust washers from the left bellivilles area and the reel now spins for about 3 seconds in free spool and the crank effort is pretty much constant across the drag settings.  Do you have a clue why the left plate says 3 ball bearings when there's 4?

Pinions like the click gear are out of stock at Shumano.

Think I'm ready for Chesapeake Cows in December.   

Thanks for your reply,                                  Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on August 02, 2013, 11:57:06 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 02, 2013, 07:45:51 AM
Sounds like your pinion bearing needs to be replaced.

Hey Bryan,

While I got your attention, I really like the crank handle from the TLD 15 on my charter specials in addition to the low cost as compared to other choices.  Are there other economical choices that might function better?

                                                      Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Bryan Young on August 03, 2013, 06:52:37 PM
I'm sure there are others, but none that I have fished with.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on August 04, 2013, 12:10:18 PM
Quote from: mrbrklyn on August 03, 2013, 06:33:45 PM
Http://images.mrbrklyn.com/marilyn_jean_fishing/IMG_2860.JPG?width=1600

Hmmm, the link did work at this end, but needed some editing?  Thanks for the view.

                                                         Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: ossipeter on August 04, 2013, 01:41:16 PM
Hello Alan,
is this a Tiger rod?
10-50lbs?
Greets from Bavaria
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on August 05, 2013, 07:40:33 AM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 02, 2013, 07:45:51 AM
Sounds like your pinion bearing needs to be replaced.

Hey Bryan,

Still having problems on a couple of reels that moving the lever to the strike position increases the crank effort too much.  Tried exchanging the pinion from one reel that functions OK, but the high crank effort remains.  I replaced the right side plate spool bearing, but haven't changed the bearings on the right spool or the left spool.  I'm wondering if the endo pressure on the bearings as the drag increases could cause my problem?  Something has to be dragging that is causing the problem. 

I'm at a loss and don't know what to try next.  Do you have any more ideas?

                                                             Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on August 05, 2013, 02:06:07 PM
Quote from: mrbrklyn on August 05, 2013, 10:17:08 AM

Hey Mrbrklyn,

I'll take a shot at an answer as I want to let me spools run the planers out without free spool that would backlash due to the wave action.  The drag washer is forced against the titanium drag plate the moment the lever is moved off free spool.  Unless the drag is set quite high at strike position, incremental movement of the lever results in spool  tension.  With Alan's thicker bellevilles on the left of the spool, there might not be much adjustment as the drag ramps up more quickly.  I returned the bellevilles to the originals while trying to get the crank effort to be more normal.  Changed the left and right spool bearings without a reduction in crank effort.  Now wondering if the pinion guard might be the problem.  Nope, changed the pinion guard and the high crank effort remains.  The effort seems to decrease as the lever is moved from the strike position to the full drag position. 

Still wondering why!

                                                              Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Bryan Young on August 05, 2013, 03:22:30 PM
Fishy, how much drag are you using on these reels?  That could be the problem with you damaging the pinion bearing, and possibly the left side spool bearing.

Are you exceeding 13# at strike?
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: ossipeter on August 05, 2013, 10:32:35 PM
@mrbrklyn
I asked for this rod in 10/50lbs. http://www.tackledirect.com/ugstiktigrod.html  Your link is funny but for me a little bit strange. I come from Germany and dont know what you are thinking!
Greets from Bavaria
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on August 05, 2013, 10:53:29 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 05, 2013, 03:22:30 PM
Fishy, how much drag are you using on these reels?  That could be the problem with you damaging the pinion bearing, and possibly the left side spool bearing.

Are you exceeding 13# at strike?

Hi Bryan,

Not even close to 13#s.  This is happening as soon as the drag tension engages the drag washer to move the spool with cranking.  I didn't change out the pinion or right spool bearing, thinking they weren't involved.  When I fish with these reels in December, I'll set the drag at strike at 5#s by using a weight and pulling the line through the guides.  My only problem is that setting the drag at the room temperature lets the drag change significantly at 40 degrees on the water.  Then, the fishing is pretty much ended when the water temperature drops below 45 degrees, though some say I don't know nuttin'.

I'll try changing out the pinion bearing and the right spool bearing.

                                                          Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Bryan Young on August 05, 2013, 11:28:13 PM
I'd change the pinion bearing (right sideplate bearing) then the left spool bearing.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on August 06, 2013, 01:40:17 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 05, 2013, 11:28:13 PM
I'd change the pinion bearing (right sideplate bearing) then the left spool bearing.

Hi Bryan,

Thanks for bearing with me, :), but I finally got to what the reel problem was.  Alan mentioned in his tutorial that the graphite frame swells or what ever and the spool rubs on the frame.  I saw one rub mark on the right spool end and filed the frame - no improvement.  Then, I did the left and WOW, what a difference.  Will touch the left again to be sure temp doesn't return the problem.  Unlike Alan's example, there were no drag marks on the spool ends to tell me that this might be the problem.  Only one small line on the right spool end to indicate a problem. 

Thanks for you suggestions,

                                                        Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on August 07, 2013, 06:16:07 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 05, 2013, 11:28:13 PM
I'd change the pinion bearing (right sideplate bearing) then the left spool bearing.

Hi Bryan,

Decided to exchange the spool with pinion, etc. to another reel and I transferred the problem.  So, it's not related to frame dragging on the spool.  The existing problem is that as soon as the lever engages the drag, the reel effort is OK.  As it's advanced to the strike position, the crank effort is dramatically increased.  Then as the lever is advanced to the full drag position, the crank effort is diminished to the early effort as the with the engagement of the lever.  Not sure how the pinion gear can cause this.  I may exchange the pinion gears between the tow reels and see if the problem transfers too. 

I had a weird thought that the shaft may have been bent.  The left end has a long space from the end cap to the right pinion bearing.  Well, it's obvious that I don't reallly know nuttin'.  Maybe Alan can think of a cause too.

                                                             Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Bryan Young on August 07, 2013, 06:29:06 PM
Last thought without seeing the reel would be the cross pin in the left side plate.  does the shaft and cross pin move in and out of the frame freely?  Frames do swell, and this could be a contributory culprit.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on August 07, 2013, 10:59:32 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 07, 2013, 06:29:06 PM
Last thought without seeing the reel would be the cross pin in the left side plate.  does the shaft and cross pin move in and out of the frame freely?  Frames do swell, and this could be a contributory culprit.

Hey Bryan,  Sure hope there's a solution to my problem.  I changed the spool including the cross pin to a different body/left end cap, and of course, exchanged the pinion gear.  Still wondering if the shaft could be bent?  Guess that's a next exchange of the shaft and bearings from one spool to another.  Yet, I've exchanged so many things that I don't know for sure who's on first, etc., yet the problem shifts with the spool  change .  .  .?

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: fishy76 on August 08, 2013, 01:13:59 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 07, 2013, 06:29:06 PM
Last thought without seeing the reel would be the cross pin in the left side plate.  does the shaft and cross pin move in and out of the frame freely?  Frames do swell, and this could be a contributory culprit.

Hey Bryan,

Checking the shafts, I found that the right spool and the pinion bearings were quite tight on the shaft.  Went back to the old bearings that slip easily on the shaft and with other minor changes, both reels work perfectly now.  So much for installing new bearings and thinking it solved a problem.  Do I understand what corrected the condition?  Nope!

Thanks for your suggestions.

                                        Fishy76
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Mikeflorian on August 21, 2013, 06:05:22 PM
Hi Alan , just did you upgrades to the topples tr 2000 I got from Tom. Belleville washers,spacer and Dawns drag washer. Took about an hour.( I was taking my time as not to have problems ). Very noticeable increase in drag. Thank you . Now I just have to wait for the bigger fish to come in .Spooled it with 60lb braid 40 fluorocarbon top shot .
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Bryan Young on August 21, 2013, 06:21:00 PM
Quote from: fishy76 on August 08, 2013, 01:13:59 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 07, 2013, 06:29:06 PM
Last thought without seeing the reel would be the cross pin in the left side plate.  does the shaft and cross pin move in and out of the frame freely?  Frames do swell, and this could be a contributory culprit.

Hey Bryan,

Checking the shafts, I found that the right spool and the pinion bearings were quite tight on the shaft.  Went back to the old bearings that slip easily on the shaft and with other minor changes, both reels work perfectly now.  So much for installing new bearings and thinking it solved a problem.  Do I understand what corrected the condition?  Nope!

Thanks for your suggestions.

                                        Fishy76
Sorry Fishy, for some reason, my system did not pick up your posting.  That's odd regarding the bearings, but if the bearings are not sliding, then it's a problem.  Looks like you solved it...not why are the bearing IDs smaller on the new bearings.???  bad batch?
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Mikeflorian on August 24, 2013, 02:43:33 PM
Just finished upgrading Toms topless charter special with Alan's upgrades bev washers thrust washers and Dawns drag washer . Real noticeable difference in the drag. Also Alan's new handles are very nice and reasonable. Now 2 find some big fish!
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: CaptKev on December 07, 2013, 07:32:39 AM
I own 6 of these reels. After somewhat pushing the capabilities of this reel to the limit for a season, I replaced the main and pinion gears as well as the pinion bearing (RH side). They function perfectly, but I can feel the gears when cranking. There's no grinding or binding, it just doesn't feel like new. With the new gears and bearing, it's a major improvement over the coffee grinder feel they had before, but they are not like new. The remaining 3 spool bearings are original, no shields, and do not appear to be shot.

I've not heard of anyone replacing the other bearings so am I missing something? Anyone have the measurements for the other bearings? I'm done buying bearings from Shimano at $10-$15 a shot.

Thanks in advance, Kevin     
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: erikpowell on December 07, 2013, 08:42:48 AM
maybe the new gears just need to break in a bit....  malaysia factor..  ;D
and if you packed your bearings nicely, that always seems to transmit more gear noise than when they were new..
I like the more "positive" sound and feel of fully greased bearings.... 
it's like a Whirrrrrrr whirrrrrr whirrrrrrr  with ummph when you crank.
...you did pack the bearings didn't you?

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: CaptKev on December 08, 2013, 06:03:00 PM
These reels spent 1 season killing dozens of troll caught Albies. Many times I'd watch the fish hit and immediately notice the customers would have the drag lever shoved WWWAAAYYY fwd. Maybe the extra drag pressures wore the other bearings enough to misalign the spool to the main gear? The bearings seems very smooth, but maybe they're not!   

Yes, I packed the main bearing and left the shields off. I think the new "Shimano" bearings were ABEC 1. Maybe I could find a 5 or higher replacement? Because I casted occasionally, I oiled the 2 spool bearings and the LH side bearing. I may just order one set of new bearings and see what it does? Albies can be brutal on reels when trolling 7-9 knots and the darn things strike at 20 knots. I had demodify the reels back to stock drags to avoid snapping leaders and spectra main line.

Anyone have the bearing measurements handy? 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: erikpowell on December 08, 2013, 07:44:07 PM
Heya Kev,
Yeah, I've not been impressed with my last few batches of shimano replacement bearings.. I have replaced bearings with new ones only to have to swap them out with another new one while testing...they feel smooth when new, but they don't like the axial load of a high drag setting.

not to mention PIA pressed on shields and plastic races that blow apart when I try to pry off the pressed in shields..  >:( >:(

You'll be much better off ordering your bearings from Dawn at Smoothdrag...
She has what you're after:

1 ea 7x14x5 & 5x11x4               Set #45  $17.00       
Shimano Charter Specal 1000 2000       

1 ea 5x11x4 & 7x17x5               Set #75  $17.00       
Shimano TLD 5 & 10                       
Charter Special 1000 2000                       
           
Hope this helps .....

Erik
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: CaptKev on December 09, 2013, 05:37:29 PM
Thanks Erik, exactly what I needed.

The replacement bearings were SS, but they sure didn't seem very precision when I put them.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: CaptKev on December 17, 2013, 05:15:45 AM
I think I've found my problem to the noisy gears. SO just replaced the 4 bearings in the worst offender. They were SS ABEC 7 grade. Put it back together and no change whatsoever ???

>:(Now I'm really pissed off! I opened a brew, took a swig and pondered this. After cranking the handle out of frustration 100's of times, I noticed some play in the handle. Moving the handle, I noticed it moved a little more than 1/16" on the long end. I removed the handle and rocked the main gear shaft back and forth. Guess what? There's more than just a touch of play. I compared the 6 reels and discovered the noise was worse in the reels with the gear shaft play. Well, Albie damned! I suspect that after hundreds of fish, customers cranking with high drag pressures, the brass/bronze bushing in the RH side plate (p/n TLD0188 $7.85) has enlarged just enough to misalign the main to the pinion. This would explain why the reel functions perfectly and why I seem to be eating gears more often than I think I should.   Naturally, I don't have an extra side plate laying around so I'll order new ones. As my luck goes, the Shimano parts ordering system seems to be down at the moment. My pint is about finished and so is my post. When I get the part installed, I'll report back. I'm about 99% sure that is the problem. Should be like new when I'm done, I HOPE!

I love the reel, but it's not very special for extensive charter use.   
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: whalebreath on December 19, 2013, 03:38:42 AM
Quote from: CaptKev on December 17, 2013, 05:15:45 AM
I think I've found my problem to the noisy gears......I love the reel, but it's not very special for extensive charter use.   
Thanks for that Kev-been following this and shaking my head @ people who would use a Charter Special for Tuna-it's not what they're made for.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: CaptKev on December 19, 2013, 04:48:43 AM
Much of our Albacore avg 20# not the big uns. For all the abuse these reels took, they served me very well. Tuna + 4/0 Kolekar handles...it was a bit much to ask. If they're like new with new side plates, they may go back to being salmon reels. Waiting for the brown Santa truck.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: CaptKev on December 30, 2013, 04:13:36 AM
UPDATE...

I rec'd the new sideplates and installed it on the worst offender...that solved my problem! It's ALMOST like brand new, but a gazillion times better than it was. A closer look at the old bronze bearing in the sideplate showed the hole was somewhat distorted, out of round which created the extra play at the gear to pinion junction. I'd guess the drag upgrade and Kolekar handle was a bit much for this reel. I'll install new plates on the other reels soon.

The new sideplate was $7.85 from Shimano. I love their $3 S/H for most stuff, woohoo!
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on April 17, 2014, 07:16:35 PM
from bruce barna......

Quote

Alan -

Got the rest of the drag washers.  Thank you.  Also, after much consternation, I finally resolved the issue with the lack of free spool on some of my Charter Special LD reels (four out of five).   I'm not set up to post material to your tutorial site but perhaps you will want to share some of this with the folks there.  It would have saved me a lot of time to know and I see others encountering similar problems in some of the discussions.

The problem was arising with spacing on the left end when the new Belleville washers are installed.  All of my reels (four 2000 models and one 1000 model) had three brass washers installed around the Bellevilles, two thin ones at 0.008 inches +/- 0.001 and one at 0.020 inches.  Although the Shimano diagram is not very clear as to exactly how they are to be installed, it appears that all of the reels had the two thin washers stacked together against the pre-load body (132).  This would make them pre-load washer B (43) and the thick one would be pre-load washer A (72). 

When I tried to reinstall all of the washers, the assembly would rub against the click gear (134) and cause drag on the spool.  It's very easy to find out if this is occurring without reassembling the entire reel by just spinning the main shaft (154) by hand  once the click gear is installed along with the bearing on the right end of the spool (213).  On two of my reels, the drag was substantial, on the other three it was noticeable but not severe.  Two of them would have been ok for trolling but would have had less than maximum free spool.

 

On all five reels, the problem was solved by removing one of the washers.  On four of the reels I had to remove the thick washer (72) and on the fifth reel I could get by with only removing one of the thin ones (43).  Once you know what you are looking for, it is very easy to check for free spool by spinning the shaft but also by checking for a few thousandths of play end to end on the shaft.  On one of my reels, I had removed the thick washer and the end play seemed excessive so I went back in to substitute a thick washer for one of the thin ones but the drag came back so I had to stick with the two thin ones.  On only one of my reels was I able to reinstall the thick washer.  On all five of the reels then, I could only put two of the three washers back and maintain zero drag on the spool.  In all cases I placed one of the washers on either side of the pair of Bellevilles, the left one to serve as a wear plate and the right one to serve as a thrust washer against the bearing.  For the one reel that could handle a thick washer, it was used as the thrust washer against the bearing.

As you are certainly aware, the end play is not critical in this situation except that you must have some to get maximum free spool.  A little extra is not going to hurt anything since the drag setting at strike will pull the assembly away from the click gear anyhow.  I was a bit surprised at the variation in the thin washers from 0.007 to 0.009 inches and wonder if the factory assembly workers would have a selection available to them so they could adjust end play on the shaft.  Normally I wouldn't even consider such a possibility but the quality of this reel really impresses me.  Mine are over 25 years old and they show no signs of needing replacement.

In the process of searching for the source of the problem on my reels, I spent a fair amount of time looking for a rub spot on the frame.  Thinking that it could be a high spot that I was missing with the Dremel, I changed to a dowel  (1 3/4 inch) with a wrap of fine sandpaper.  This worked a lot better for me at making sure that both the left and right sides were being done parallel and that I was catching the high spots.  It might also be useful for those who may not own a Dremel.

I really appreciate the tutorial.  Thanks for all your help.

Bruce Barna, PE
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Ron Jones on May 30, 2014, 12:30:47 AM
So,
The graphite frame on my SLH-X-20 finally gave up the ghost. I won't have time to fix it before the SOA trip. My local reel shop has a used harter Special 1000 in the box that looks unused for $90.00. Would this be a good replacement for a 30 pound reel? I am specifically concerned about casting, my Diawa casts like greased lightning and I would hate to lose that.
Ron
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: whalebreath on May 30, 2014, 03:30:34 AM
Because of the lever drag and pawl gear charter specials don't cast all that well IME-excellent price for a 1000 though.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: F-Minus on August 27, 2014, 09:03:17 PM
Hi Alan,

Do you have any of the 1000-size frames still available??

Thanks,
=stan
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on August 27, 2014, 09:35:11 PM
yes, got a bunch.  they are still the same price, $65.  there is also a 3/0 grip with a stainless steel arm for $40 and a cabontex drag for $10,  figure $5-6 for shipping.  send a pm with your address if i can tempt you with any of these.  i can get them sent out with a paypala request.  thanks!  alan
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: mikeg24thst on September 01, 2014, 06:13:44 AM
Got my frame Friday and installed Saturday awesome upgrade thanks Alan !
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: whalebreath on September 05, 2014, 03:01:24 AM
OK I have a question about the handle nut on my Charter Special TR 1000.

Put some aftermarket handles picked up from EBay on couldn't be happier but it seems on one reel the handle nut will not stay tightened it's always coming loose.

What sort of washer would help-split washer or something more esoteric?
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: MFB on September 05, 2014, 06:17:35 AM
Loctite 222 low strength screw lock it's a purple colour.

Rgds

Mark
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: F-Minus on September 09, 2014, 05:48:25 PM
In order to get more thread engagement on the handle nut when installing thicker handles, I have cut a counterbore in the handle using a counter boring bit designed for 5/16" fasteners (I think, measure yours to double check). I used a mill, but I imagine it could be done on a drill press by securing the handle with clamps. Its a little tough since the pilot ends up running in the oblong hole , but if you drill a block of scrap aluminum then clamp the handle over that, the pilot will run in the scrap block and stay centered without chattering too bad.

The counterbore bit I used actually made a slightly undersize hole and the corners of the handle nut drug slightly the first time...  ::)

Here is the type of tool I used:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#2919a17/=tnewlt (http://www.mcmaster.com/#2919a17/=tnewlt)

You could also drill and tap the handle so the original nut plate will help lock the handle nut.

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: F-Minus on September 18, 2014, 07:55:40 PM
I received the aluminum frame (work of art!) that included all necessary hardware and clamp. It really is very nicely machined with no sharp edges.

Everything fits the frame perfectly.

This is a brand new reel I am working on, and I didn't really play with it at all before tearing it down.

I put in the heavier bellville washers, and noted there was already a thrust washer between the bellville and the bearing. I made no other changes to the stock assembly other than a carbon drag washer. I did clean and oil the spool bearings with CorrosionX, and greased the right bearing with Penn grease. Free spool works very nicely, but it gets harder to turn the handle as drag pressure increases. Its not binding up, but it gets a little harder to turn. Maybe this is normal?

Is the spool too far over to the right and rubbing on the sideplate? I measured the stock bellville stack at ~0.063in and the heavier stack at ~0.079in, but could the extra .016in cause things to rub? I have not taken it apart to experiment yet, I'll probably take a look tonight.

Thanks!
=stan
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on September 18, 2014, 09:13:34 PM
the binding could be normal if you are going past 12 pounds of drag. 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: handi2 on September 18, 2014, 11:08:14 PM
I just had the opposite conditions. I used the 40A thick spring washers, tossed the brass bearing washer and got great results in the drag capability but only had 25 seconds of freespool. New bearing's and new pinion bearing.

Trying to get a better freespool I replaced the stock spring washers but the reel had no drag and was way to hard to turn the handle.

Mine is an older model and the left side of the spool shaft is different than the newer models. There is no restriction where the spool shaft goes thru the brass levelwind gear.

I stuck with the first arrangement and will try some ceramic hybrid bearings in the spool.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: headlight on October 05, 2014, 08:45:35 PM
After being pointed in the direction of this forum, & in particular this thread by a friend who new I wanted to upgrade a pair of Charter Special 2000ld"s I took the plunge & joined today so hello from a new forum member from Wales, UK  ;D
Also this morning I emailed Alan Tani & must say I was surprised for him to get back to me so quickly.
I have just ordered 2 complete handles/grips from him along with carbontex washers & thicker bellevilles to upgrade both my Charter Specials.
Looking forward to the parts arriving & servicing & upgrading the reels.
Meantime I will be doing the same upgrades (power handles & carbontex drags) along with full services to a pair of Abu Ambassadeur 7500c3"s I have.

headlight
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: handi2 on October 05, 2014, 08:52:16 PM
After upgrading the 2000 sized Charter Special I changed the bearing to ceramic hybrid and it did help the free spool.

I then finished the 1000 sized reel and used ABEC7 ceramic hybrid spool bearings and only get 15 seconds of freespool on both of them ???

The frames are really awesome as my son says!
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on October 05, 2014, 09:29:20 PM
Quote from: headlight on October 05, 2014, 08:45:35 PM
After being pointed in the direction of this forum, & in particular this thread by a friend who new I wanted to upgrade a pair of Charter Special 2000ld"s I took the plunge & joined today so hello from a new forum member from Wales, UK  ;D
Also this morning I emailed Alan Tani & must say I was surprised for him to get back to me so quickly.
I have just ordered 2 complete handles/grips from him along with carbontex washers & thicker bellevilles to upgrade both my Charter Specials.
Looking forward to the parts arriving & servicing & upgrading the reels.
Meantime I will be doing the same upgrades (power handles & carbontex drags) along with full services to a pair of Abu Ambassadeur 7500c3"s I have.

headlight


ian, welcome!!!!!  i'm stuck at work all day today, so i'll put everything together tomorrow and get it shipped out.  i should be able to get it done quickly.  since you are going through so many reels, i'll add a tub of cal's grease.  it's $7. 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: headlight on October 06, 2014, 09:57:28 AM
Quote from: alantani on October 05, 2014, 09:29:20 PM
Quote from: headlight on October 05, 2014, 08:45:35 PM
After being pointed in the direction of this forum, & in particular this thread by a friend who new I wanted to upgrade a pair of Charter Special 2000ld"s I took the plunge & joined today so hello from a new forum member from Wales, UK  ;D
Also this morning I emailed Alan Tani & must say I was surprised for him to get back to me so quickly.
I have just ordered 2 complete handles/grips from him along with carbontex washers & thicker bellevilles to upgrade both my Charter Specials.
Looking forward to the parts arriving & servicing & upgrading the reels.
Meantime I will be doing the same upgrades (power handles & carbontex drags) along with full services to a pair of Abu Ambassadeur 7500c3"s I have.

headlight


ian, welcome!!!!!  i'm stuck at work all day today, so i'll put everything together tomorrow and get it shipped out.  i should be able to get it done quickly.  since you are going through so many reels, i'll add a tub of cal's grease.  it's $7. 

Ok Alan as long as it dosen"t add to much to the postage as I don"t know how heavy the tubs of grease are & if I searched enough I could probably find some here in the UK.
I am servicing/upgrading the 7500"s later today as I have a little grease that I think will be suitable.

headlight
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on October 06, 2014, 05:50:47 PM
then i'll just add a small amount in a small ziplock. 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: headlight on October 06, 2014, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: alantani on October 06, 2014, 05:50:47 PM
then i'll just add a small amount in a small ziplock. 

Thanks Alan that will be great  :)
BTW serviced & installed carbontex drags & new power handles to my two Ambassadeur 7500c3"s today  :)
Pretty straight forward job & both reels were in sound condition internally although I think there is a little wear in one as sometimes it dosen"t go straight in to gear from free spool.
Will see how I get on with it & maybe order a new part.
Drags are now silky smooth & seem to have more power than the standard ones & the new handles are much more comfortable.

headlight
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Alistair on December 07, 2014, 09:41:34 AM
I’m new to posting in this forum, but have been following it and learning a lot from you all for a long time.   Thank you, and congratulations to those who set it up, particularly Alan.

My interest was aroused when I came back to live in Auckland from Australia and found a box of old reels in my brother's garage, plus some more on his boat that hadn’t been serviced in years. One of the TR 2000’s in use was acting up (getting harder to turn as the drag pressure was increased) while a number of other reels just needed some tlc.

I emailed Alan who organised me some parts for the 2000’s so I could have bits on hand before pulling them down. Impressively the box arrived in New Zealand within a week of dispatch.

I pulled the first 2000 reel apart and cleaned it all up.  (it was the one with increasing difficulty turning the handle as the drag pressure was increased.)

The two small bearings on the main shaft were sealed with clips holding the covers in. I removed the cover from one side of each bearing with the help of a magnifying glass and a fresh blade in my box cutter. The larger bearing on the left hand end was already exposed one side, and the pinion bearing in the right side plate was completely sealed. I did the same to that and removed the cover from one side (That process was a little more brutal.)   The washed out the bearings still seemed to be in good order.  I’ve oiled the bearings on the main shaft and packed the pinion bearing with Yamaha grease.

Thinking that the level wind mechanism seemed a little sticky and may be contributing to the lack of spool freedom, I pulled that apart and cleaned and lubricated it.

I reassembled the reel unit with new bellevilles from Alan and a new drag washer. It all went together nicely apart from some time searching the table and floor for the two ceramic blue tips on the right hand spool cap and the brake collar. After a quick email to Alan, I realised that they had probably already been removed.

After reassembling the reel, I found to my dismay that the problem had not gone away. It was still harder to turn as the drag pressure increased.

Back to the forums and checking out the suggestions of other contributors….  I was not convinced that the pinion bearing was faulty, that the pinion itself was a problem, and the spool was definitely not rubbing on the frame. The right hand side plate and some play in the main gear shaft were suspect for a while so just to check I assembled the reel without the main gear and spigot but was still not happy with the way the spool was turning. – it seemed it should have spun more freely.

As a point of comparison I went down to the boat and retrieved another near new tr2000. Before my cup of tea was cold I had yet another one disassembled on the table. I began swapping bits..  bearings, spigot, right hand side plate assembly. All to no avail. It still had the problem.  Figuring then that it must be in the spool assembly itself I decided to return all the bits to the new reel and turn my attention back to the original one. But….  While I had it apart, I cleaned its (open) bearings, re-lubricated them and changed the bellevilles and the drag washer. I reassembled it all, and much to my consternation discovered that I now had two reels with the same problem! – not quite as bad in the new one, but still there. All rather embarrassing really….

I let them both sit there for a day, - all shiny with their new handles, but tormenting me with their inner problem while I thought long and hard about them.  In both cases, the spool when in the ‘free’ position, was just not as free as it should be. Whatever was causing it was being exacerbated as the drag pressure went on. Apart from a faulty pinion bearing in the side plate, there should be nothing to cause the spool to bind on the shaft as the drag pressure increased. I even went down to the fishing shop and checked out a brand new one to confirm the correct operation.

I recalled that when I had assembled the click gear plate into the left side of the spool, it was not sitting comfortably before the screws went in. It was in fact compressing the new bellevilles as the four screws were tightened home. It seemed odd to me at the time, but I figured that this must be the way it was meant to be.  The only thing I’d changed in the assembly of the spool in the new reel was the bellevilles and the drag washer. The drag washer wasn’t going to impede the freedom of the spool, so it must be the pressure created by the bellevilles.  I assembled the reel without belevilles. No drag, but a very free spool.

I disassembled the new reel and went back to the original belevilles. They were only 1.7mm compared to the much thicker new ones.  The click gear plate seated comfortably, and when the spool was back in the frame, it was as free as a seagull’s bowels! Fully reassembled, the problem was gone!

Obviously I did the same to the original reel, with the same effect. (the original bellevilles were 1.37mm.) I do have a new set of bearings on order for the original reel, but they may just stay in stock while I see how it works over the summer.

My theory on the original problem is that it was probably sticky bearings or a gummed up level wind mechanism that was causing the spool not to revolve freely. It seems that anything at all that stops the spool revolving very freely in the ‘free’ position (be it rubbing on the frame, bad bearings etc) will be exacerbated as the drag pressure comes on and result in the handle being harder to turn.

While the increased Belleville thickness is a good idea, it obviously does not work in all reels. Someone has suggested that in the factory they may have a selection of thicknesses available to get the pre-load set up working properly for each reel. The thicker washers obviously work for a lot of reels, but in my case they haven’t worked for the two I’ve installed them in.

If you have installed them and have the issue of increased difficulty turning the handle as drag pressure is applied, - and you are sure that it’s not the bearings, the spigot, the right hand side plate or the spool rubbing on the frame, it might be worth a try going back to the original preload washers and see what happens.

Both reels are back on their rods and on the boat. – waiting for a chance to try them out!  - The new handles look and feel great, but will be even better when there is a decent fish on the end of the line!

Thanks again everyone for your contributions to this forum. It’s immensely helpful. I just hope that my experience might add something to the knowledge base!

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: headlight on December 12, 2014, 10:17:18 PM
I have now upgraded 5 Charter Special 2000ld"s with the thicker bellevilles, carbon drag washers and handles from Alan  ;)
On 4 of the 5 reels I found that either I couldn"t get full free spool with lever drag backed right off or the handle became stiff as soon as you started to push the lever drag lever forward, one of the reels was fine.
I found that the answer was to remove the thin copper washers either side of the bellevilles.
I spoke to Alan about this who confirmed that with the thicker bellevilles they would not bind on the bearings so removing the copper washers was fine. I believe there are some slight tolerance differences with some of the reels ?
All 5 reels have been used since the upgrade with no issues  ;D

headlight
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on December 13, 2014, 11:36:36 PM
well done!!!!!!  let me know when you want me to ship out the topless frames......   ;D
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Hardy Boy on September 23, 2017, 08:55:37 PM
I have a tr 2000 with the upgraded drag washer and aluminum frame and it has worked great for a couple of years but now (late this season) when I adjust the drag to where I used to fish it I loose free spool and when I adjust back I do not get the drag I used too. I just serviced it and all looked great and when I put it back together and adjust to where I loose free spool I still do not have much drag and not nearly what I used too, and when I adjust to the drag I like the handle binds. Do the stock bellevilles wear out and or loose their spring/ flex even if they look new?

Todd
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: handi2 on September 23, 2017, 11:51:09 PM
Todd it sounds like the pinion bearing has given up handling all that side load. Most all lever drag reels do this.

Change the pinion bearing and also if you want to beef it up just a little more the TLD 30 2 speed bellvilles will fit. Alan has them. The are thicker than the stock ones.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on September 25, 2017, 02:58:25 AM
spectra slipping on the spool?
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Hardy Boy on September 25, 2017, 10:46:59 PM
New bellvilles on the way ( Thanks Alan !!) and I will try a new pinion bearing. I will post up my results. These are capable little reels with the upgrades and it has replaced my TLD 15's as my go to bottom fish reel.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Hardy Boy on October 04, 2017, 03:46:15 PM
Well I received the bellvilles (thanks Alan) and installed them using the thinnest thrust washer beside the bearing (removed the other two) and replaced the pinion and all is kick ####. I now have lots of drag without losing free spool. I do like the way it ramps up quicker. I use this reel for jigging in deep water (200 to 350 feet) so you need the drag tight to set the hook but its nice to slide the lever back to back off a little once the fish starts running. I will do the same to my TLD 15's. Note : I installed a good used bearing from a TLD 20 to replace the pinion and I got binding again, could not figure out what was going on and what do you know there was a thrust washer stuck to it and that caused the binding ..................... that wasted lots of time !! ::)
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on October 04, 2017, 03:51:45 PM
Glad I sent extras!
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: steelfish on October 21, 2017, 12:57:22 AM
Quote from: alantani on August 19, 2009, 07:24:10 AM
well, here it is!  the topless frame for the shimano charter special by tom hrynuik. 
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_18_08_09_10_15_46_1.jpeg)

Tom looks pretty young in this pic from 2009  ;D ;D
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on October 21, 2017, 04:48:50 AM
i have the frames back in stock, but they have to be packaged up still.  it's gonna take a while. 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: braz13 on February 14, 2018, 09:20:52 PM
Just received this little lot from Alan.

I already have one of the first 1000 frames but I'm still astounded by the quality of the components, the thought and accuracy that has went into manufacturing of these parts is brilliant.

I don't think the photographs do justice to the quality.

Can't thank Alan and everybody involved enough.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Barrywa115 on February 23, 2018, 08:06:34 PM
Braz,

I own a CS1000 & CS2000.  These handles and frames look awesome.  How do I sign myself up for a set of these upgrades?
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: braz13 on February 23, 2018, 08:54:49 PM
Hi Barry
If you send a private message to Alan, he'll take care of you, I've had a couple of orders from Alan now and can't find fault, brilliant products and brilliant service.

Cheers
Brian
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: swill88 on February 23, 2018, 11:56:18 PM
Quote from: Barrywa115 on February 23, 2018, 08:06:34 PM
Braz,

I own a CS1000 & CS2000.  These handles and frames look awesome.  How do I sign myself up for a set of these upgrades?


Welcome Barrywa115...  Brian is right... do what he says.

steve

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Barrywa115 on February 24, 2018, 04:39:46 AM
, I sent Alan a PM. Thanks
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Barrywa115 on March 03, 2018, 04:22:22 AM
Hi all,
I have a CS2000 that has just decided to provide me with a learning opportunity.

The reel freespools even when the drag lever is engaged. If I crank the handle, the spool moves but I can stop it with my thumb, and it freely spins backwards. If I position the drag lever to freespool, tighten the drag setting, then set the drag lever to strike, the reel still frespools. It is as if the main gear is disengaged.

Also, if I shake the reel it sounds like a ball from one of the bearings is rolling around near the main gear. I am going to take the reel apart tomorrow to see what is going on. Any thoughts on what might be causing the problem would be appreciated.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on March 03, 2018, 06:56:50 AM
there is a soft stainless steel "plug" that locks the main gear in place relative to the drive shaft.  sometimes it pops out.  if you can tap it back in, then take a punch and hammer and give it a couple of good whacks, it should work again. 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Barrywa115 on March 04, 2018, 04:46:03 AM
Ok. I think I found the SS plug. It was about a 1/2 fingernail thickness from flush. I popped it a few times with a punch. That seemed to work.  Thanks! (I'm new to posting. I tried to insert a photo here but couldn't figure it out. I attached a photo.)

So I rebuilt the reel and swapped out the frame and handle. There were 3 washers on the main shaft (#154), 2 preload spring washers (#44) and preload washer (#72).  The thickness of the two spring washers measured 1.73mm. The replacement spring washers measured 2.35mm.  So slightly thicker. I reassembled the reel using the 2 thicker cupped washers and the preload washer (#72). The rebuild assembly is 0.62 mm thicker than the stock washer assembly.

The handle turns freely when the drag lever is in free spool but the handle gets hard to turn when the drag lever is in the strike position. I think I need to go back and remove the flat washer (#72) and try it again. Is there anything else that could be causing the handle to be hard to turn with drag but okay in free spool?

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on March 04, 2018, 04:55:48 AM
sounds like you have a bad pinion bearing. 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Barrywa115 on March 04, 2018, 06:30:30 AM
Okay, thanks for sharing.  Smooth drag sells the right side and drag plate as a set (#75) soIll try that and post the results.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Barrywa115 on March 05, 2018, 05:25:15 AM
Hi all,
I found the problem with the "hard-to-turn" handle. With the reel disassembled, the spool would spin freely on the shaft until I tightened the click gear screws. The clearance at the click gear cap was ever so slightly too tight.

I remembered Alan Tani's instruction to make the total drag stack as close to the original thickness as possible.  I removed the preload washer(#72) and reinstalled the click gear cap. The spool spun freely with #72 removed so I put the reel back together and the handle worked fine.

Here are the drags washer thicknesses I measured:
Original drag spring washers (#44): 1.73 mm
Original flat preload washer   (#72): 0.50 mm
Upgrade drag spring washers (#44): 2.35 mm

As you can see, the original set up was 2.23 mm; the problem set up was 2.85 mm and the final set up is 2.35 mm.

With the rebuild complete I set up the drag, again learning from this website (thank you).  I put the reel on a rod and rigged up a pole holder angled at approx 45 degrees. Then I hooked a 10lb downrigger ball and
set the drag so that the weight slowly pulls line out. 5 ft in 5 seconds or a little slower. Close enough. Below,is a photo of a CS 2000LD with Alan's custom frame, custom handle and drag upgrade. The quality of the AT parts is impressive. Thanks for all of your help.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Barrywa115 on March 05, 2018, 07:03:05 AM
Sorry about the upside down pics.   :-\ if you click on the paper clip (bottom left) it comes out better.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: FishTremble on August 23, 2018, 05:24:52 AM
Hi, Alan, glad I found this thread!

Working on mine, I see I got a couple things wrong. Loved the picture of opening the bearings for re-lube and the belvilles (I dropped mine before I noted how they go)!

I have two quick questions:
Mine has a small hole, ~3mm between the middle quadrant screw and the upper drag stop button. What is this for? Did I lose something that goes in it? Doesn't that let water in? (That's supposed to be one question?  :-\

Second, the pinion gear has a short cut on one end and a long cut on the other (no dog jokes, please)  ;D Which end goes in the spool cap and which end faces out?

Thanks again and keep up the great work!
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Swami805 on July 19, 2020, 11:28:05 AM
I'm going to service my charter special but the pictures in the tutorial are gone. Is there some trick or can I find them elsewhere? Thanks
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Wolli on July 19, 2020, 02:33:33 PM
This will help you

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Swami805 on July 19, 2020, 03:47:25 PM
PEARFECTO!!  Thank You!
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Sweden Trolling on November 19, 2020, 12:27:02 PM
Quote from: alantani on December 07, 2008, 04:25:58 PM
first, the schematic from shimano....

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TR_2000LD-ARB_v1_m56577569830570239.pdf

here's a stock charter special.  these reels had seen several years of service and were in pretty bad shape.  the handle turned easily on one but was rough on the other.  freespool time on one was only a few seconds, but that is par for most levelwind reels. the freespool was zero on the other.  both reels had pretty jumpy drags, even at a light setting.  not a good thing for salmon.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00502.JPG)

the first thing to come off is the lever assembly, including the pre-program dial (key #115), the dial spring (key #82), the lever shaft body and "O" seal (keys #116 and 10), the drag control lever (key #117) and the lever thrust ring (key #84).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00513.JPG)

remove the lever quadrant (key #121) and screws (keys #19, 20 and 21).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00522.JPG)

back out the five side plate screws (key #122) and remove the right side plate as a unit.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00532.JPG)

remove the spool assembly as a unit.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00542.JPG)

note the wear marks on the right side of the spool.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00551.JPG)

it is a common problem for these graphite frames to "swell."  i use a dremel and the cutting bit #117 to cut away at the inside of the graphite frame, just enough so that the spool doesn't rub.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/hispctr1.jpg)

add a little grease to the metal clicker assembly (keys #140 and 209).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00563.JPG)

remove the spool cap and drag pressure plate as a unit.  note the reverse threads.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00571.JPG)

here's a photo of the original canvas drag washer next to a penn ht-100 drag washer (part #6-5600).  use a dremel to hand cut the inside hole to match the stock canvas shimano washer.  note that you can now buy a carbon fiber drag washer from smoothdrag.com

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00581.JPG)

back out the four click gear screws (key #135), remove the click gear (key # 134) and the main shaft assembly.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00591.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00611.JPG)

the shields of the three spool bearings can be removed and you can see the dried grease inside.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00631.JPG)

after cleaning out the grease with carb cleaner and compressed air, the bearings can be lubed with corrosion x or reel x.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00641.JPG)

switching out thin pre-load washers (bellevilles) for thicker ones will ramp up the drag pressure more quickly and give you a higher drag at strike before you lose freespool.  the thin preload washer B's (key #44) on the right will be switched out for the thicker preload washers from the shimano tld 20/30 two speed reels (part # tt-0040A).  the orientation of these belleville pressure washers remains "()".

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00621.JPG)

interestingly, the thickness of the stack of thin bellevilles....

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0066.JPG)

is about the same as the thick bellevilles....

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00671.JPG)

here is the reassembled washer stack with bearing. reinstall the spool shaft assembly, the click gear, the two right side spool bearings (keys #213) and spring (key #37).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00681.JPG)

those of you that prefer a dry drag can either re-install a new canvas washer (part #tld-0129) or use a the penn ht-100 without grease.  my preference remains to grease this washer using shimano or cal's drag grease, applying a thick coat to both sides of the drag washer.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00691.JPG)

install the gooped up washer.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00701.JPG)

wipe off all the excess drag grease until drag washer basically looks dry.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00711.JPG)

now, just a side bar comment.  note the rubber gasket of the spool cap....

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00721.JPG)

and the metal lip on the drag pressure plate assembly.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00731.JPG)

when the drag lever is at strike and the reel is engaged, this metal lip mates up with the rubber gasket and seals up the drag chamber to keep water out.  the take home message is this.  rinsed off your shimano lever drag reels in the "strike" position.  all other lever drag reels should be rinsed in "free."

here's an example in the second reel that was probably rinsed with the lever in the "free" position.  note the rust in the right spool bearings.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0094.JPG)

install the pressure plate assembly.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00741.JPG)

install the spool cap and pinion gear.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00751.JPG)

install cross pin B (key #50) and place the spool assembly back into the frame.  the spool should slide easily back into the frame.  

IF THE SPOOL DOES NOT SLIDE EASILY BACK INTO THE FRAME, ROTATE THE SPOOL SHAFT 180 DEGREES AND TRY AGAIN.  

this works.  i have no frickin' idea why!

now, this reel felt like a coffee grinder when you turned the handle.  this rusted right main side plate bearing (key #212) is the reason.  to get the to bearing, you have to remove the handle.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00761.JPG)


remove the handle lock screw (key #1), the handle lock (key #2), the handle nut (key #3), the gear shaft shield (key #5), the gear shaft thrust washer (key #6) and the main gear (key #8).  the dog (key #26) and the brake collar (key #190) will fall out as well.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00771.JPG)

pry out the right side plate bearing.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00781.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00791.JPG)

the old bearing was too badly rusted, so i pulled out a new one....

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00821.JPG)

and packed it with heavy grease.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00831.JPG)

reinstall the new bearing and dog.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00841.JPG)

install the main gear, the rotate the dog clockwise until the gear "drops" into place.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0085.JPG)

install the handle assembly.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0087.JPG)

install the brake collar.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0088.JPG)

reinstall the right side plate.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0089.JPG)

install the quadrant.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0090.JPG)

install the lever and pre-set dial.  make sure the lever is in the free position and drop the lever shaft body into the lever so that they mate up.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0091.JPG)

there are several handle options available.  be creative!

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0092.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/206100_0117.JPG)

the spools of both reels will now spin easily.  both of these reels have only 5 seconds of freespool, but that is because of levelwind mechanism.  without the levelwind assembly, the spools probably would spin for 30 seconds.  both now have a max drag at strike of 15 pounds before losing freespool.  and both have a smooth drag from 1 pound up to 15 pounds.   the total time required for service, including time to clean out the bearings, was an hour.  

Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: louisurfer on February 05, 2021, 09:41:34 PM
2021, and thanks for the tutorial. 

Upgraded my son's  TR2000 with the help of this.  Got the drag from mystic parts, drilled out with a Dremel grinding bit that happened to be the perfect diameter, greased with Cal's, and the bellevilles directly from Shimano.  Only snags were on another forum the bellevilles were listed as tt-0042, but here it lists as tt-0040. (used tt-0040). 

Another minor snag was this little washer I found in my vat of grease when I was greasing the pinion.  Turns out it goes under the pinion and must have stuck and fell into the grease when working on it. 

I added the a TLD 15 (1/2" longer)  handle on it I had sitting around for a little more leverage.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Hardy Boy on February 05, 2021, 09:56:12 PM
Using the handle from the TLD 15 is a vast improvement over the stock handle. Thats what I did and I would recommend if you don't want to go custom.


Cheers:

Todd
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Swami805 on April 14, 2021, 09:36:54 PM
I finally pull the trigger and bought a clean looking 100 at reasonable price from the bay and bought one of Alan's topless frames and he was kind enough to throw in new thicker bellfivue washers. When I opened the reel I found a brass washer floating around in the handle side like the guy who serviced it didn't know where it went so he just threw it in there
I pulled the spool assembly apart, cleaned the bearings and installed the cf drags. From the tutorial the brass washer that was floating around goes between the bellfivues and the spool bearing so that's what I did. With it set up like that the spool won't spin on the spool shaft at all so I took it out and it spins fine. My question is do I need that washer there?  It shows it in the tutorial plain as day but I can't get it it to work that way. Without it the pressure looks like it's on the inside race of the bearing, with it the pressure is on the outside    Seems like that can't be right
I'm thinking the guy before me ran into the same problem so just left it inside so it wouldn't get lost?
Otherwise smooth sailing and the reel works great, just don't want to crunch a bearing. I have another stock one with the level wind that's been a great reel and doesn't  have the same issue
Thanks in advance
Here's a picture of the washer
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on April 19, 2021, 11:38:40 PM
the two thicker bellevilles replace the pair of thinner bellevilles and this thrust washer. 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Swami805 on April 20, 2021, 12:01:46 AM
Thanks Alan!  Frame's nice!
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Bryan Young on April 20, 2021, 12:52:37 AM
I'm not sure what the size of that washer is.

If it's a little large, I believe there is a thrush washer under the handle chrome cap that sits under the handle.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on April 20, 2021, 04:59:36 AM
crud.....  i think you're right!!!!!
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Swami805 on April 20, 2021, 06:03:19 AM
It's just like the picture in the tutorial. Too small for under the handle
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: Bryan Young on April 20, 2021, 11:18:16 PM
if the ID is same as the spool shaft, then Alan is right.  Thrust washer that is normally installed with the stock belleville washers.
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: swordfishunter@hotmail.co on October 31, 2021, 03:57:49 AM
Hi guys,

I've been searching around and I guess this is the definitive place for charter special experts on the net.
I have 4 CS, 2 2000's and 2'1000's that I grew up fishing with.

Decades later I want to use these reels, however they need some servicing and modifications. I have a few questions. They are quite suitable for the type of fishing I still do, live baiting and coastal bottom bouncing, perhaps some light trolling. No monsters expected.

1- the ones I have say product of Japan. Could these have been made in Malaysia, or are they Japan made ? These were bought perhaps in the 90's.

2- are there any differences between the Japan / Malaysia made models? Any parts I can cannibalize to upgrade the models I have ?

3- the anti reverse gaps on the handle are rather large. Any way to improve this ?

4- am I better off buying a new set of 2000/1000 and retiring these ?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: steelfish on January 30, 2023, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: alantani on December 07, 2008, 04:25:58 PM.......
switching out thin pre-load washers (bellevilles) for thicker ones will ramp up the drag pressure more quickly and give you a higher drag at strike before you lose freespool.  the thin preload washer B's (key #44) on the right will be switched out for the thicker preload washers from the shimano tld 20/30 two speed reels (part # tt-0040A).  the orientation of these belleville pressure washers remains "()".

Alan, by chance do you have a spare pair of those thicker bellevilles?
I got a charter Special 2000 in pretty good shape but its completely stock, the guy who sold it to me told me it was never used but have it for years along the rest of the spare reels on the same travel reel bag, I want to to the pre-service lubejob and install the carbon drag washer but had hard time finding the thicker bellevilles.


Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: alantani on January 30, 2023, 07:41:02 PM
if you will send a pm with your mailing address, i will get them into the mail. 
Title: Re: charter special tr 1000/2000
Post by: steelfish on January 31, 2023, 12:52:33 AM
Quote from: alantani on January 30, 2023, 07:41:02 PMif you will send a pm with your mailing address, i will get them into the mail. 

PM sent