Alan i hate to say it but there is too much play in your 10 tooth sleeves. Is there a way to drill and put in a slightly larger pin. Shimming the base is the wrong way to go.
Mike
Mike, you should have 0.20mm of space, place two sheets of standard paper and see if they fit nicely, if so, you have 0.20mm.
Alan, his men and myself call that perfect, Penn as the same.
I know that there is talks about some liking the sleeve to be tight here, If you like to have yours snug as well, go for it, but we don't recommend it.
Sal
Sal ask Fred he had the same problem. The sleeve sets up to high and the dogs are not fully contacting the sleeve teeth. The excessive play just make it worse. The 8 tooth sleeves fit perfectly.
I'm not disagreeing with you or Fred, this is just my opinion.
Keep in mind the new dogs and bridge are stamped, giving the impression they're thinner, this is not the case when comparing.
Here is a pic of the custom bridge on the left, Penn stock in the middle and custom bridge that has not been stamped on the right, all are of the same thickness.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/20160725_121819.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/20160725_121819.jpg.html)
If you take a closer look at Penn stock bridge ( that's what you should go by most time when comparing), the stock sleeve is actually 0.10mm taller than the other two.
I believe the custom bridge and sleeve will do just fine, to me they appear to be spot on, but as mentioned above, this is just my opinion, you guys take it from here.
Sal
Sal compare Alan Tani's second generation sleeve it fits like it should.
The reason my resource advised me not to make the sleeve hole to snug on the bridge post. If the heat builds up, there should be some breathing room between the post and sleeve, otherwise, it might cause some problems. They are pretty sure that was why Penn made it not snugging the post.
Some people like it snug, and other like it loosen. Member can return the 10 tooth gear sleeve to me for full refund if he does not like my sleeve not snug.
So far, I have not had any complain from any member on the failure of these 10 tooth gear sleeve.
Can you measure the thrust with a feeler gauge so we know how much it is? Too little and your reel will lock up. My gearsleeve and bridge plate have acceptable thrust.
I made a mistake it wasn't Fred who had the same issue it was Keith. This is the post I was referring to.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=18708.msg197517#msg197517
I should probably just mind my own business here because I'm far from an expert on this issue...but I've made some observations on this gear sleeve/post fitment problem...and nobody else has effectively addressed what I've observed.
First, nobody wants their sleeve so tight as to cause heat to be an issue. What everyone wants is a nice solid feel...within tolerance. This can be harder to accomplish than you'd expect when we're dealing with a product that has been manufactured longer than most of us have been alive. There are always going to be some sleeves and posts that just won't work together.
Second, While I have seen sleeve/post slop that was just way over the top, I'd have to think most complaints are addressing endplay that a simple shim can take up. Shimming a few thousandths under the sleeve isn't going to mess up ratchet/dog contact at all. Just use common sense. If you yank on the sleeve and it pulls back and forth .030 the parts aren't compatible.
Third, new guys to the site reading these threads and wanting to hop up a reel are on the fence..."what if my parts won't match?" Don't sweat it, Alan has stated anyone who bought a sleeve that can't be matched properly to a bridge post can get a full refund.
With all the sleeve/post issues I've personally had...I have to say...Alan's 10 tooth was the only one I've installed that was a perfect fit! Coincidence? Stars lined up perfect? Who knows...LOL...roll the dice...buy a bag of shims...and build a badass reel for us to slobber over. 8)
The distance between the bottom of the sleeve and the top of the bridge was 0.30 thousands. It was the same thickness as the Delrin washer. That's what I grabbed to check it with. I switched to the 8 tooth sleeve and it's fine. The only reason I changed the gear sleeves is because of the thickness of the dogs on the double dog bridge. They are already thinner than the ratchet which is fine but if I shimmed the sleeve it would have been to high.
I have used plenty of the 10 tooth sleeves on Penn bridges and they fit fine.
Keith
This issue has been addressed with. The new batch 113H sleeve will have two pinholes. A person can choose how tight the sleeve should be.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a494/prochallenger/0D0C46C4-E99A-48F8-813C-B732167E2CDA_zpslkdxzthq.jpg)
anybody that tries to make these is certainly for their share of frustration. alan chui will certainly appreciate this. there are so much variability in the bridge plates, year to year, model to model. sometimes it seems like the posts were just punched in anywhere, almost randomly, and the height of the retaining pin hole just as random. as far as heat goes, i don't think these things will heat up enough or expand enough to compromise the fit, so if it's right on the money in terms of fit, you should not have a problem. you would likely have to get up in the many hundreds of degrees before the metal expands enough to bind or seize. as always, a good high temp lube is important, here.
to answer your question, though, it might work to drill out the retaining pin from 2mm to 7/64ths of an inch (2.67mm). the pin that is used is usually 2mm x 8mm and i'd be happy to mail them out. it is possible that this might actually take up the amount of slack you need. if it turns out to be too much, then you can always shave down the pin. alan chui will have to let us know if this might actually work. i'm not sure what size pin he used to start with. :-\
I'm not sure how much heat is needed, but one of the sleeve did lock up on me during one of my tests a while back.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6517.msg68248#msg68248
Of course this wasn't the same situation as fishing the reel, so I'm not sure what would happen if the sleeve was a tight fit while fishing.
I have burned my hand a little by touching the star as I was pulling on the reel while the line was secured on a post, the drags were set pretty high.
I did this 20-30 times, pulling approximately 6' of line steadily and retrieving.
The reel got pretty hot.
If anyone didn't do it yet and wanted to try it, make sure the line is always centered on the spool or it won't last long. Don't ask how I know.
more lube!!!!! ;D
;D ;D Probably...
I really appreciate what Alan Chui has brought to us in such a short amount of time. Just think what we didn't have just 3 years ago.
I purchase the 10 tooth sleeves 10 at a time so I know how well they work. It was only in this one situation where I wasn't totally comfortable using one on the double dog bridge.
Keith
While all the answers are nice, I think everyone is missing the point. I haven't installed any of my double dog bridges for this reason. I'm not worrying about the slack in the 10 tooth gear sleeve because of handle slop, I'm worrying about it because when the sleeve is pulled out (away from the bridge), only about 1/3 of the dog contacts the ratchet. That's how much play there is. I was contemplating putting some c clips on the gear sleeve stud to space the sleeve down toward the bridge. Shimming the sleeve out away from the bridge only makes the dog contact worse. Alan's new sleeve looks like it may cure the problem.
Looking to upgrade a 501 with full SS guts.
Was the original pinion not ss, or for best results, just buy the kit for main/pinion to mesh without issue?
I installed an A.Tani 8 tooth sleeve 3-4-5 years ago. ??? For better results or if I'm understanding correctly, the 10 tooth will have both
dogs engaged @ the same time where the 8 tooth holds one at a time or alternately?
My plans are to keep the 501 4-1 and a 506 5-1
Sorry for the necro post. I'm taking the leap into DD world and just want to get it right the first time.
Thanks
-gary
The prochallenger jm500x kit about covers everything you need all in one package. You could also use what you have and add ss parts as needed. The kit makes life easy though
Quote from: Gman_WC on April 16, 2018, 03:14:13 PM
For better results or if I'm understanding correctly, the 10 tooth will have both
dogs engaged @ the same time where the 8 tooth holds one at a time or alternately?
Correct...the 10 tooth is simultaneous dogs while the 8 tooth is alternating. Simultaneous dogs increase anti-reverse strength while alternating dogs decrease backplay. I'm holding out for a gear sleeve that will do
both...:D
Quote from: mo65 on April 16, 2018, 08:51:26 PM
Quote from: Gman_WC on April 16, 2018, 03:14:13 PM
For better results or if I'm understanding correctly, the 10 tooth will have both
dogs engaged @ the same time where the 8 tooth holds one at a time or alternately?
Correct...the 10 tooth is simultaneous dogs while the 8 tooth is alternating. Simultaneous dogs increase anti-reverse strength while alternating dogs decrease backplay. I'm holding out for a gear sleeve that will do both...:D
That sounds like a great plan.
I figured while I'm waiting for the 113h stuff to come back in, I'd start on a 501 tank.
The stock 4-1 pinion, is ss correct? I just want to be sure that it's going to work with a new SS main gear in one of the packages.
I want to keep the 501 at the stock 4-1 configuration.
The plan (right now) it's going to be used for bay trolling, and the 5-1 506 for live bait and casting.
-gary
Quote from: day0ne on October 01, 2016, 05:45:37 AM
While all the answers are nice, I think everyone is missing the point. I haven't installed any of my double dog bridges for this reason. I'm not worrying about the slack in the 10 tooth gear sleeve because of handle slop, I'm worrying about it because when the sleeve is pulled out (away from the bridge), only about 1/3 of the dog contacts the ratchet. That's how much play there is. I was contemplating putting some c clips on the gear sleeve stud to space the sleeve down toward the bridge. Shimming the sleeve out away from the bridge only makes the dog contact worse. Alan's new sleeve looks like it may cure the problem.
That's exactly why i didnt use the 10 tooth gear sleeve with the double dog bridge. I didnt trust it at all. Only one half of the dogs would be contacting the ratchet on the sleeve. I have broken one of the dogs off the bridge and Alan replaced it.
Quote from: handi2 on April 17, 2018, 03:55:51 PM
Quote from: day0ne on October 01, 2016, 05:45:37 AM
While all the answers are nice, I think everyone is missing the point. I haven't installed any of my double dog bridges for this reason. I'm not worrying about the slack in the 10 tooth gear sleeve because of handle slop, I'm worrying about it because when the sleeve is pulled out (away from the bridge), only about 1/3 of the dog contacts the ratchet. That's how much play there is. I was contemplating putting some c clips on the gear sleeve stud to space the sleeve down toward the bridge. Shimming the sleeve out away from the bridge only makes the dog contact worse. Alan's new sleeve looks like it may cure the problem.
That's exactly why i didnt use the 10 tooth gear sleeve with the double dog bridge. I didnt trust it at all. Only one half of the dogs would be contacting the ratchet on the sleeve. I have broken one of the dogs off the bridge and Alan replaced it.
So far, you are the only one had that failure. After replacing the 113H sleeve with 2 pinholes, no one has been reported any problem on that 10 tooth sleeve with 113H DD bridge. By the way, these items are in the Tank, and the Tank has been fished in Alaska for awhile, and no issue at all. On the other hand, the bridge you had that could be one of the defected. If anyone still have any issue with the 10 tooth sleeve or the bridge, please return it to where you get it from, and I will be glad to purchase it back from the retailer where one is purchased from. I don't like anybody to keep any of my custom parts if he is not happy with it. That is how I like my business to be run.
In addition, there is none issue reported by any user on Jigmaster DD bridge with 10 tooth sleeve.