I've been shopping around a bit on feebay for something green for potential surf fishing... and I see quite a few immaculate looking Greenies out there--maybe a little too immaculate--and wondered how many of them might have been repainted. Is that a common thing that's done or is it a bad thing --or does it even matter? Maybe I should ask, "Would it matter to you if you were looking for one?"
In some of the photos of the ones that do appear to be original, the paint seems to be a bit lighter and sometimes has a more metallic look to it. Some of those too-immaculate looking examples seem to have a deeper shade of green. Is there any way to know if they are repaints.
The 700 & 706/707 are a darker non-metallic green.
The 704/705 is a lighter metallic green.
The parts on all of these reels is very durable.
In my experience, few are repaints -- most are original.
A repaint would not bother me, if it was a reel I was going to use, and not resell -- but it should be disclosed up front -- if known.
These are very high quality and capable reels for surf fishing, IMO.
I have worked on many, and have a good selection of NOS parts for these reels.
Best,
Fred
They're often a little darker straight out of the box. The paint will be oxidized and lighter on ones that were heavily used. Sometimes you can see the ghost of chipped paint under a poor paint job. Sometimes the color is a bit off on a repainted one. There are probably some repaint jobs that are good enough that you can't tell from photos and would not know without looking inside. The color of the white plastic handle and drag knob is also a clue. If the plastic has yellowed but the paint looks fresh and shiny it may have been repainted. All of mine have the original worn and chipped paint. It's just cosmetic and doesn't hurt anything. A new paint job is unlikely to hold up as long as the original paint unless you're a real paint guru and know how to properly prime and cure it.
They're tough reels with or without paint. But, like anything, you can wear them out eventually. The bail bumper (especially), bail release arm, bail arm and some of that stuff seems to go first because the bail snaps closes with a lot of force and a clunk.
-steve
I agree with the above comments. Nearly all of the green Penns I have come across have been original. In my experience, the repaints are seen in different color combos, not unlike that seen in the Mitchell lines the last couple of years. I collect so there is no way I would buy a repaint but if you're a user repaint shouldn't be a big stopper. Like Steve said, though, repaints won't wear as well unless they're powder coated or have a clear coat. Don't forget to check out the Zs unless you're wanting nostalgic "green". There's not a lot of difference in quality.
This is just a box of some commonly used and needed parts for the larger 700 size old greenies.
The little red plastic boxes have 10 new parts -- which are the most commonly needed parts when these reels are used for surfcasting.
Tune up kits.
I don't really care if I hang on to these or offer them up to members -- because they are tough to find at any price -- and if not already so, some are not available for any price.
Will sell them to members for $10 a box. They are New Old Stock.
Best,
Fred
Already sold (6) boxes to 4 members in the last hour -- however, 30+ left.
Best,
Fred
Generous offer, Fred.
For me, unless a reel has significant value or will be a shelf queen, I have no objection to a good repaint. If somebody is gonna take the time to make the inside as good as new, why not the outside? A good lookin' reel on a rod makes me feel better too.
Frank
Which of the green spinfishers had plastic spools and which had metal?
The 710 had plastic a spool. At least some of the 712 had a plastic or fiberglass spool. I could be wrong but think all the 700, 704 and 716 spools are metal. In photos it is difficult to differentiate a green metal spool from a green plastic spool. Chipped paint means it's metal. If the reel is well used and the finish is oxidized, the plastic spool will be a different shade of green from the body and rotor.
-steve
There was also an all black 710 in between the green and black and gold. I had 2 at one time.
So they primarily used the plastic spools on the mid-sized green reels? Are metal spools (other than the gold Z spools) available for those particular reels?
I don't think they made a metal spool for the 710 but could be wrong about that. They made metal spools for the 712 and it is silver like the 716 spool. Plastic spools are green. It would be hard to find a metal spool to replace a plastic spool unless Fred has one or someone is selling a parted-out reel on the auction site.
-steve
To my knowledge, only metal spools that fit the 710 are the golds for the 710Z.
They are available -- but around $35 as new.
Having said that, the green plastic or black plastic spools do work well.
They are a different, slightly pliable, very thick and robust plastic -- not what we are used to in the Cardinals, Quicks, Shimanos, or others.
I am sure they will eventually break -- however, I cannot ever recall a broken one in 30+ years.
Braid would not do the plastic spools any good -- that is likely why Penn went to the metal in the Z.
All of the 700-707 reels have metal spools.
And like Steve said, the 712-722 all have metal spools. Either silver or gold, depending on the model.
Best,
Fred
Thanks all, I really appreciate your help.
A company named CFI made rattle cans of green paint call Penn reel green that matched the green 710, 712, 714, & 716. CFI (Custom Finish Incorporated). A very close match for these reels is John Deere tractor green.
The later gold 710 spools will fit the green 710's and avoids problems with the fiberglass spools.
The green reels are the same as the later "Z's". The 700 was replaced by the 704 around 1968.
When I was doing the collecting I use a Preval Sprayer and a color mix that came from a Fiat car. It was perfect. You couldn't tell a painted reel from a stock reel. Just paint it like the factory did and it comes out right.
The paint was a single stage enamel or erethane I don't remember.
Quote from: George6308 on September 26, 2017, 10:45:29 PM
A company named CFI made rattle cans of green paint call Penn reel green that matched the green 710, 712, 714, & 716. CFI (Custom Finish Incorporated). A very close match for these reels is John Deere tractor green.
The later gold 710 spools will fit the green 710's and avoids problems with the fiberglass spools.
The green reels are the same as the later "Z's". The 700 was replaced by the 704 around 1968.
Quote from: handi2 on September 26, 2017, 11:23:20 PM
When I was doing the collecting I use a Preval Sprayer and a color mix that came from a Fiat car. It was perfect. You couldn't tell a painted reel from a stock reel. Just paint it like the factory did and it comes out right.
The paint was a single stage enamel or erethane I don't remember.
Hmm... that's interesting. Did a search and read a 2009 post on the striper forum that the CFI color is called "Fishing Reel Green." Looking at the CFI website, they seem to primarily paint trucks.
Ultimately, not being a true collector, I think it doesn't matter much if a reel has been re-painted as long as it can be made to work great and looks good and I like it. Lots of people out there modifying already great reels into something they like better.
Fred's right about the plastic spools. They were belittled when they came out because that was not too long after monofilament line started exploding plastic squidder spools. I never really heard of a Spinfisher plastic spool causing any problem though. It may be because the plastic is so thick and it may be because there is so much space between the spool and the rotor. We used to use them for kingfish (king mackerel) and cobia around the near-shore oil rigs.
-steve
If you really want it to be bullet proof just remove the bail. There is not much left to go wrong. You could drag it through the mud and keep fishing. But, maybe people don't do that any more.
(http://www.raingarden.us/snap/716b.jpg)
716
-steve
Steve,
Thanks for suggesting that. I've never tried a bailess reel and never actually saw one in person, but I like that idea. Coincidently, I was just looking online at a bailess conversion kit not too long ago. Haven't really looked closely at removing the bailwire on one of my spinfishers. Can it be removed from the roller assembly without cutting the wire?
That's a beautiful little 716 between the pretty bonefish & cane. I just scored a *green 714* a couple days ago on an auction and am pretty excited about it. I was supposed to be looking for a larger surf caster, but just couldn't resist it... and still surprised I won the auction. I have two old 714Zs I bought new in the early '80s and they turned out to be my all-around favorite spinning reels. Since then I've always thought if I got just one green reel it would be a 714. (It's a good thing you hadn't posted that 716 photo a few days ago. :))
The 704 has a bailess (bail-less) conversion kit. I think Maureen has them. It is DIY for the rest of the models. The easy way is to just saw off the bail wire and file down the rough edges. I made a bailess conversion that did not destroy the bail wire. It is just a stainless machine screw, a metal sleeve to go under the stock roller, a couple of nuts and washers.
It is actually faster to release and pick up the line without the bail. To cast, turn the handle forward until the line touches your out-stretched index finger. Then rotate the handle back a tad as you pick up the line and the roller backs out from under the line. Picking up the line after casting is even quicker. Stick out your index finger to catch the line and just start reeling.
The only thing I do not like about it is fishing with the anti-reverse turned off so I can rotate the handle backward when removing the line from the roller. Some people say you don't need to turn off the anti-reverse because the dog only hits a ratchet tooth about every quarter turn and you can use that back play to release the line. But, sometimes that does not work for me and I have to look down at the reel to get the line off the roller. So I leave the anti-reverse turned off instead.
I'm not really a spinner person though and seldom use them. A few hours of repetitive casting with a spinner leaves my right hand and wrist sore. Bait casters are much more comfortable for me.
-steve
I'll check out my Z spinfishers to see if there's a way to go bailess without cutting the bail wire. If not, I might could just buy another bail assembly, or at least the critical parts if possible.
I generally prefer baitcasters, also, and for a while I completely quit using spinning gear purely because of the problem of line twist and dislike of using a swivel. I recently started back carrying the 714Z because I needed something for throwing small unweighted swimbaits to schooling stripers and I've been enjoying using it quite a bit --its had a place in my freshwater fishing for most of the past 35 years.
My recent notion of getting a large 1st generation Spinfisher for surf fishing is an idea still under development and some of it I'm needing to rethink.
If you find something to use for a sleeve under the stock line roller you won't need to cut anything and it will be completely reversible. I think I used a 3-48 machine screw and nuts from the local hardware store. The inside diameter of the sleeve is just slightly larger than the screw diameter. The outside diameter of the sleeve is slightly smaller than the bore in the line roller. The length is such that the line roller will not bind when the screw is tightened on the sleeve and there is not a gap where the line can get behind the roller. The 714 seems to have the same bail arm and line roller as the 716 so I have the dimensions and can make a kit if you need it.
-steve
Steve,
Thanks for offering to make a kit for me. That sounds like a good option. Let me know more details about it; PM me regarding the cost if you like.
I searched some hardware stores today but didn't find any parts that would fit, no 3-48 machine screws either. I'm going to check Monday or Tuesday with a local tackle shop & Penn dealer where I sometimes find useful parts. If I went with Penn parts I could probably get by with buying a bail wire assembly, cut the wire off and use the line roller and lock nut I already have, but I think I'd probably prefer to get a new roller and nut and keep the originals stored with the old bail assembly.
Here's the candidate for the bail conversion. (the bail spring broke when I was taking the bail arm off)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/medium_17264_30_09_17_8_21_04_22002107.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/17264_30_09_17_8_21_06_220032476.jpeg)
Below is a photo of the bail assemblies on my 712Z on the left and other 714Z. The bail wire on the 712z is like that of the 716 Actually, I guess the differences are a moot point since the critical measurements are the same between the 716, 714, and pretty much the 712.
Whatever kit or parts that are used should be interchangeable between at least three different models.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/medium_17264_30_09_17_8_21_09_220042148.jpeg)
Below is a photo I found online of a 716:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/medium_17264_30_09_17_10_36_41.jpeg)
You can go to Mystic Reel Parts (MysticParts) to get schematics of the various models. If the part numbers are the same on two different models then they can be interchanged. If the part numbers are different then watch out. The height of the bail arm and diameter of the roller are critical to get the correct line lay. The bail arm on the 714 is 34-716, The bail arm on the 712 is 34-712. Different roller numbers too.
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/714z.pdf (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/714z.pdf)
I'll make a conversion for a 716/714 in case you need it and PM to get an address. Give me a couple of days.
-steve
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Thanks. I was overly speculative in my last post (a common fault of mine). I'll pay close attention to the part numbers with anything I order. I am intrigued by your conversion kit.
The green 714 arrived; at the least it'll need a replacement spring for the anti-reverse switch and a good cleaning & lube. I visited my local best tackle shop today --they had all the bail assembly parts.
Since I have no experience using a bailess reel I'll defer to your judgment on this, Steve. In any event, it won't hurt have a spare bail wire assembly on hand.
Tension and the turning rotor hold the line on the line roller. It will not fall out unless there is slack line blowing in the wind. The bail arm is unlikely to move during normal operation, but you will receive a washer to put under or over the bail arm so it can be locked into place. Some custom kits had a plate that goes in on the opposite side to lock the bail release arm. It is simpler to just remove the bail release arm.
Here is what you will receive to go with your existing bail arm, bail arm screw and line roller. The brass sleeve is threaded onto the 40-48 machine screw. I mistakenly called it 3-48 before, but it is 4-48 size.
(http://www.raingarden.us/snap/716c.jpg)
To begin, remove the bail screw on the opposite side, the bail arm screw, the bail wire, the bail arm and bail arm spring. When finished it will look like this.
(http://www.raingarden.us/snap/716d.jpg)
I don't have a 4-48 lock nut with the plastic insert right now. They only coast a few cents and would look much better than the two common hex nuts locked together.
Note the brass washer under the bail arm screw. This lets you lock down the bail arm. You can put the brass washer under the bail arm instead of on top of the bail arm as it should work both ways.
You do not have to lock down the bail arm as it unlikely to move during normal operation. The bail arm bumper will prevent it from moving on one direction and the bail arm spring will prevent it from moving in the other direction. The bail arm bumper determines the precise orientation of the bail arm. The trouble is, most bumpers have been worn and hammered down by the bail slamming shut. If the bumper is worn down, the bail arm will lean down just a tad and the line roller will no longer be perpendicular to the spool. When the roller is no longer perpendicular to the spool, line will ride up on the roller and try to push the roller against the bail arm. This little bit if extra pressure (line roller pushing on bail arm) is often the reason line rollers no longer roll very well on reels with worn bumpers. To keep the line roller free, make sure it is oiled and perpendicular to the spool. Some people obsess about keeping the line roller free, but in actuality is probably makes very little difference. Line rollers do not prevent the line from twisting, they just keep the twists uniformly spaced. I guess a two hour fight with a strong fish could make a groove in a completely frozen line roller. But, they are usually just a little stiff and not completely frozen.
(http://www.raingarden.us/snap/716f.jpg)
Then remove the push-button spool to reveal the bail release arm and retaining screws. Remove the screws, the bail release arm and small spring under the bail release arm.
(http://www.raingarden.us/snap/716e.jpg)
Here are the extra pieces you will put away in case you want to revert to the original.
(http://www.raingarden.us/snap/716g.jpg)
-steve
Sounds good. I'm looking forward to giving it a go. I'm not worried about the bail arm moving --The bail spring tension alone feels like it would've been plenty to keep it in place (I just put in a new bail spring last night). I got an extra lock nut, too.
Thanks! I appreciate your help very much, Steve.
Will PM you my mailing address.
Steve --got the kit you sent. Looks good. Haven't had a chance to install it yet---hope to this evening.
I installed the bailess modification kit on my green 714 --it looks good and it's very sturdy.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/medium_17264_09_10_17_9_00_38_22069721.jpeg)
Cranked it around a few times and the entire reel wobbled badly. I worked with it a bit, put the bail release arm assembly back on the opposite side for additional weight and ended up with three steel washers behind the screw as counterweight (which also puts tension on the bail release arm and keeps it from clattering). That eliminated the wobble and everything now cranks around nice and smoothly.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/medium_17264_09_10_17_7_54_42_22066945.jpeg)
Haven't gotten the reel out on the water yet, but after playing around with it at home, one thing is obvious --the technique doesn't come natural to me and it's going to take me a while to get the hang of it.
.
You might want to consider grinding the exposed threads smooth and to a taper behind the nylon locknut. Rough, sharp edges of threads can play hell on inadvertent mono contacts or snags.
Tommy's right. I don't keep the dog engaged and turn the rotor backward to pick up the line on my finger. If the rotor accidentally makes another complete backward revolution it will try to take the line back off your finger by catching it on the back side of the bail arm. Your lock nut is much better then the two jammed hex nuts, but it is shorter so the protruding bit of screw needs to be filed off.
-steve
Thanks for pointing that out --I'll get rid that exposed screw end.
Thank you, Steve --for the kit and your help. Did you thread the inside of the brass sleeve yourself or buy it already threaded? I'm thinking about trying to put together a kit for another reel.
And thanks, Tommy, also. I cleaned up that screw end and the bail-less modification looks much better.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/medium_17264_11_10_17_8_08_15_22071710.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/medium_17264_11_10_17_9_00_52_22072656.jpeg)
A 710 is scheduled to arrive in the next day or two.
.
I just took a piece of 1/8 inch brass tubing and ran a 4-48 tap through it. If it had been drilled to fit over the machine screw there would not have been much wall left on the tubing. The tubing is available for a couple of bucks per foot at many hardware and hobby stores.
-steve
Quote from: wfjord on October 10, 2017, 04:11:19 AM
I installed the bailess modification kit on my green 714 --it looks good and it's very sturdy.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/medium_17264_09_10_17_9_00_38_22069721.jpeg)
Cranked it around a few times and the entire reel wobbled badly. I worked with it a bit, put the bail release arm assembly back on the opposite side for additional weight and ended up with three steel washers behind the screw as counterweight (which also puts tension on the bail release arm and keeps it from clattering). That eliminated the wobble and everything now cranks around nice and smoothly.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/medium_17264_09_10_17_7_54_42_22066945.jpeg)
Haven't gotten the reel out on the water yet, but after playing around with it at home, one thing is obvious --the technique doesn't come natural to me and it's going to take me a while to get the hang of it.
.
Where I can find bailess kit?
My "kit" consisted of the parts Steve (oc1) was kind enough to send me --in addition to some of the parts that were already on my reel, along with 3 stainless steel spacer washers on the opposite side of the rotor and a thinner brass washer locking down the bail arm. It works great and I like it a lot.
But you have options:
In another thread I couldn't find, Mo was recommending a manual bail-less kit offered on ebay --try searching there.
*If it's a 714 or 714z you're wanting to modify and you can't find a pre-made kit, the best and next simplest option is to get a NOS or used bail wire (part #24-714, style 2) --Cut the wire off where it attaches to the end that goes into the bail arm and use it with your existing line roller & lock nut. Get the flat metal spacer/washers at a hardware store if you don't have any. I think that mod will probably also work on a 716 and 712, although the original bailwire business end on those two models has a different shape.
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/Penn-24-714-Bail-Wire-Style-2-New-Spinfisher-714-714Z-Reel-Part-A32-6/373248417025?hash=item56e756dd01:g:DbYAAOSwxDVfdmu4
(https://alantani.com/gallery/33/17264_01_10_20_5_43_30_334561631.jpeg)
Thank you!. I will try.
I need one bailes reel for bass fishing.
If you get a chance, post a pic of your reel progress.