I've been on the look-out for a Surfmaster for some time. I Love this little brother version of the Jigmaster, with the iconic relief graphic of the top-hat wearing fisherman on the side plate. But I don't see them very often.
I don't go out of my way to buy old Penn reels for top dollar on Craig's List or Ebay. Yard sales or just word of mouth is how I come by most of my vintage Penn reels. So when someone just gave me an old Surfmaster 200, I was very pleased. It looked well used and a turn of the handle told me that something inside was either broken or worn. I just took it apart and conclude that many of the parts are showing excessive wear or damage. The handle sideplate shows damage where the freespool hammer hits it and the top edge of the plate looks worn down from some sort of friction. Perhaps it got chipped and the owner sanded it smooth. The clicker side has a very loose clicker button. Inside, the pinion yoke looks slightly bent and the area where the pinion rides it is worn down on both sides. The pinion gear itself has very sharp teeth that look like they have seen millions of revolutions. The eccentric looks like the seat for the free spool lever is worn thin and may let the lever spin. The left side ring doesn't seem to be flat, but it seems to true up well enough when the screws are tightened. One of the frame posts is bent and the others have a lot of green corrosion, as does the stand. The drag stack needs to be replaced and I would not even try to reuse the metal washers. The eccentric jack shows wear on both faces. With all this wear, I have a hard time trusting the bridge and sleeve or the bearings...
Do they reach a point where you just say no? Maybe put them back together and use them as a display or an accent piece over the mantle on an old rod?
That's really an eye of beholder type of thing. To buy all those parts new would cost a lot. Maybe a decent one can be had pretty reasonably on ebay for not much. Either reuse the ebay parts or change out the plates on it and call it good. Pretty common reel on ebay, just keep an eye on it til a decent pops up in your price range
yup, just what swami said. don't be afraid to check ebay/craigs. I just picked a nice little surfmaster 100 on craigslist for a very good price. decent used condition, will need drag washers and service, but works well as is. already has newell kit on it. if you find one and need parts, just post here and you will probably get some help. I have some spare parts for these reels myself.
Agree both above. Your first step might be to study the schematics because a ton of those parts are interchangeable and you might find a "restoration bundle" on eBay for $15. They are there. Once you decide, also post here and people may have a few parts. There's a few in my my bins of different stuff. Might have tail plate, will check.
John
I might be able to help you with some/most of those parts, I purchased a lot of miscellaneous parts just for this purpose. PM me if interested.
Sid
Quote from: Legal Bill on December 05, 2017, 02:58:48 AM
I've been on the look out for a Surfmaster for some time. Love this little brother version of the jigmaster. So when someone just gave me an old Surfmaster 200, I was very pleased.
Those are the hardest and most expensive reels. Your looking for one, you love the reel and it's a thoughtful gift. I often find that I put silly money into a reel I'm in love with even though I know I won't fish it when I'm done. But I get the satisfaction from the idea and execution. The worst is buying a part then building a reel around it.
Keep it. Over time we all end up with a boneyard which will yield most of the parts you need.
"Iconic relief graphic of the top-hat wearing fisherman on the side plate," -- can someone show a pic of that? I have Surfmasters and never noticed a top hat.
Me too. Never seen that one
I don't think I ever saw one either. Please post a photo if you can. Dominick
Never seen it either
That's the image. Top hat is probably an overstatement, but look at that thing! It's certainly a stetson at least.
Looks like it could be a fedora or a panama hat to me. And he's got a pretty long nose... Sorry for the tangent.
Ha ha, nope, no problem. That's why i love these little reels. And who knows what rod he's using???
Now that you mention the rod, his left arm looks very uncomfortable, and it appears that the rod butt connects directly to his wrist, like a prosthesis. I guess for a dedicated fisherman, it could be a nice feature, but personally, I'd rather have the rod attached to my right arm.
The bent bar would bother me because that means the whole reel is cock-eyed. If it was used with a bent bar then all the internals are going to be badly worn. If a reel is twisted or the bakelite is broken then it is unlikely to ever be something you would want to use or invest in.
-steve
Quote from: Decker on December 05, 2017, 05:23:22 PM
Looks like it could be a fedora or a panama hat to me. And he's got a pretty long nose... Sorry for the tangent.
yep, that's the guy. a fisherman with a long nose? hehe :D
Quote from: oc1 on December 05, 2017, 07:58:05 PM
The bent bar would bother me because that means the whole reel is cock-eyed. If it was used with a bent bar then all the internals are going to be badly worn. If a reel is twisted or the bakelite is broken then it is unlikely to ever be something you would want to use or invest in.
-steve
Good observation, Steve. Maybe the endplates are worn as well. It kills me to just toss it. Maybe I'll just resemble it and mount it on an old rod I use for display purposes.
checked the sold listings on ebay just for grins and you should be able to get a whole reel in decent shape for around 20 bucks. couple cups of coffee and a danish. Whether it's worth it is up to you but that is a pretty cool side plate
You should call up Fisherman's Outfitter. Those guys are really nice. They'll help you out with all your questions for about $350 ;D.
I inventoried all the parts that were worn or broken. I priced it out on Scotts. $57.10. ::) :D
Quote from: Legal Bill on December 07, 2017, 04:38:41 AM
I inventoried all the parts that were worn or broken. I priced it out on Scotts. $57.10. ::) :D
Just like my car that recently hit a deer: TOTALLED
I saw one on Craigslist last night for $25. It even had the original box. Just a little too far away.
Never toss it. do you have pics? From all you said is off with it, you'd only have the original star and handle left if I calculate. I think i probably have a bar, eccentric, yolk and jack I can send you. If it were mine, i'd disassemble, dump the whole thing in degreaser for a day then in white vinegar for a couple. By then, my couple of critical parts will arrive and you can see if you can get it operational. i wouldn't mess with the plates and gears...see if the other bits get it working. Lap the metal washers on 1000 grit, and cut drags out of leather or felt. Reassemble and see what you have. My .02. If it still isn't up to snuff hang on wall.
Post up what you need. I'll check my bone yard too. Sounds like a challenge.
These guys are right, Bill --
When do we ever toss in the towel?
Post up a laundry list of what is needed -- and between all of the Ohana here -- you will get whatever you need.
I have been known to rebuild a Penn starting with the only good part left in a thrashed reel -- the dog spring.
It is not about the $$$ -- it is the challenge that few others in the world can or will do.
We are a special breed -- and that old 200 deserves another shot at 50 years, or to be retired to the bench -- but displayed and ready to go if needed.
Let us know what you need after it is cleaned -- and we will send it out at no charges.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: Swami805 on December 07, 2017, 03:02:42 PM
Post up what you need. I'll check my bone yard too. Sounds like a challenge.
I'm in too. Have Surfmaster parts that could use a good home. :D
You guys are all great! I cleaned everything before I examined for wear, so I know what I can use and what I can't (or shouldn't) use. Here are the "must haves" based on both the observed amount of wear and the function of the part. This is the minimum I think I need to buy and then I could see how well it functions.
4-155 fiber washer
5-60 Main gear (pitting on back side face that runs against the above listed washer and pitting on the inside walls. Inside face and gear teeth look ok. My gut says replace this.)
6-60 drag washers (all 3)
12-155 pinion yoke
13-200 pinion
19-200 eccentric
32-16CH stand screw left side (missing 1)
37-155 Frame post (at least one, but two would be better)
Once I get all that replaced I can make a better assessment of the bearings, gear sleeve (which actually look ok), dog and dog spring, eccentric lever (almost 100% sure this will be fine with a new eccentric) and the two end plates. I'm especially worried about the right side plate as there is a lot of surface wear showing on all the metal parts that ride on the various inside surfaces of the end plate.
Other items that look like corrosion has taken all the plating off, but are still functional are the other two frame posts, the stand, 9-60 spacing sleeve, and 8-60 tension (belville) washer.
Missing but unnecessary items are 33-200 rod clamp and 152-200 wing nuts (2) I have an aftermarket clamp and hardware that will substitute for all the original reel clamp hardware.
I'd be very happy to pay for the parts, be they new or used. This community effort is inspiring me to throw common sense to the wind! Maybe when it is done we can mail it around and all involved can catch a fish with it.
Bill, Pm me your address; I know for a fact I have some of this stuff from a 350 i took apart to get the other Bill (Tarfu) some parts. I'll dig out this weekend.
John
Bill, this group of the Best bunch of people you have never met will get that reel purring in no time.....this same bunch helped me rebuild a Penn 349 cradle reel, including the rod :o They know who they are and I'm eternally grateful.....I have not been able to pay it back here but did help out and old river rat in Sacramento with a rod and reel during the process......It has been said time and time again.....Alan has formed a website that is BUILT on treating everyone like family......and they were my family for 3 1/2 years while I was separated from my own.......Bill
I'll hit the boneyard Saturday and see what I have, sure to have some of it
Quote from: Legal Bill on December 07, 2017, 08:05:10 PM
You guys are all great! I cleaned everything before I examined for wear, so I know what I can use and what I can't (or shouldn't) use. Here are the "must haves" based on both the observed amount of wear and the function of the part. This is the minimum I think I need to buy and then I could see how well it functions.
4-155 fiber washer HAVE
5-60 Main gear (pitting on back side face that runs against the above listed washer and pitting on the inside walls. Inside face and gear teeth look ok. My gut says replace this.) TRY EMORY CLOTH TO LAP IT. FOR WHAT YOU MIGHT USE THE REEL FOR, I BET IT WILL DO. IF ITS OLD IT LIKELY HAS STEEL GEAR, NEW 5-60's ARE BRASS. THAT STEEL WILL HOLD STRENGTH-WISE.
6-60 drag washers (all 3) HAVE METALS.
12-155 pinion yoke HAVE
13-200 pinion HAVE
19-200 eccentric HAVE
32-16CH stand screw left side (missing 1) HAVE
37-155 Frame post (at least one, but two would be better) HAVE
Once I get all that replaced I can make a better assessment of the bearings, gear sleeve (which actually look ok), dog and dog spring, eccentric lever (almost 100% sure this will be fine with a new eccentric) and the two end plates. I'm especially worried about the right side plate as there is a lot of surface wear showing on all the metal parts that ride on the various inside surfaces of the end plate.
Other items that look like corrosion has taken all the plating off, but are still functional are the other two frame posts, the stand, 9-60 spacing sleeve, and 8-60 tension (belville) washer.
Missing but unnecessary items are 33-200 rod clamp and 152-200 wing nuts (2) I have an aftermarket clamp and hardware that will substitute for all the original reel clamp hardware.
I'd be very happy to pay for the parts, be they new or used. This community effort is inspiring me to throw common sense to the wind! Maybe when it is done we can mail it around and all involved can catch a fish with it.
Will send today or Monday.
Quote from: thorhammer on December 08, 2017, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: Legal Bill on December 07, 2017, 08:05:10 PM
You guys are all great! I cleaned everything before I examined for wear, so I know what I can use and what I can't (or shouldn't) use. Here are the "must haves" based on both the observed amount of wear and the function of the part. This is the minimum I think I need to buy and then I could see how well it functions.
4-155 fiber washer HAVE
5-60 Main gear (pitting on back side face that runs against the above listed washer and pitting on the inside walls. Inside face and gear teeth look ok. My gut says replace this.) TRY EMORY CLOTH TO LAP IT. FOR WHAT YOU MIGHT USE THE REEL FOR, I BET IT WILL DO. IF ITS OLD IT LIKELY HAS STEEL GEAR, NEW 5-60's ARE BRASS. THAT STEEL WILL HOLD STRENGTH-WISE.
6-60 drag washers (all 3) HAVE METALS.
12-155 pinion yoke HAVE
13-200 pinion HAVE
19-200 eccentric HAVE
32-16CH stand screw left side (missing 1) HAVE
37-155 Frame post (at least one, but two would be better) HAVE
Once I get all that replaced I can make a better assessment of the bearings, gear sleeve (which actually look ok), dog and dog spring, eccentric lever (almost 100% sure this will be fine with a new eccentric) and the two end plates. I'm especially worried about the right side plate as there is a lot of surface wear showing on all the metal parts that ride on the various inside surfaces of the end plate.
Other items that look like corrosion has taken all the plating off, but are still functional are the other two frame posts, the stand, 9-60 spacing sleeve, and 8-60 tension (belville) washer.
Missing but unnecessary items are 33-200 rod clamp and 152-200 wing nuts (2) I have an aftermarket clamp and hardware that will substitute for all the original reel clamp hardware.
I'd be very happy to pay for the parts, be they new or used. This community effort is inspiring me to throw common sense to the wind! Maybe when it is done we can mail it around and all involved can catch a fish with it.
Will send today or Monday.
Everything but drag washers appears to be covered for the reel mechanics? I'm sure I have a rod clamp.
Let me know if anything else is needed, fellas --
Sure that I have anything and everything also.
Will send as soon as requested.
Thanks!
Best,
Fred
sooooo......the answer to the original question is "When The Ohana run out of parts"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! which is pretty unlikely for most anything named Penn....
Quote from: thorhammer on December 08, 2017, 06:39:16 PM
sooooo......the answer to the original question is "When The Ohana run out of parts"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! which is pretty unlikely for most anything named Penn....
This is what you call "Ohana-sourcing!"
Should I send the clamp?
Note, personally I hate the wingnuts. Once I decide what size reel seat it will live on, generally a 22 or 24 mm for a reel that size, I put clamp on and the cut the studs to length with a dremel to where i can use SS Acorn nuts (available at HD or Lowes, or at least SS Nyloc. Much neater and doesn't hang things.
Quote from: thorhammer on December 08, 2017, 07:37:11 PM
Note, personally I hate wingnuts.
We all try to avoid political discussion on the site ;D
Just following up to see what else may be needed -- can send Wednesday or Thursday when you let me know what is needed to anchor this project.
Thanks,
Fred
Thank you, gentlemen. I'm sorry I did not look in on this thread over the weekend. I was very busy learning how to clean, repair and reassemble 3 Mitchell 302s with parts that Keith was good enough to send. That bail return spring can be a real you-know-what to reinstall!!! But that aside, I only had to partially disassemble one reel to install a part that I forgot the first time! Don't you just love when you finish assembly and there is a part on the white paper towel staring back at you???
To update the status of the Surfmaster, I am waiting for John's parts to arrive and my plan is to do an assembly and see how it works. Does the free spool engage and disengage smoothly and affirmatively, does the main gear, pinion gear and gear sleeve and anti reverse all work solidly and smoothly and does the spool spin freely and retrieve without noise or binding? If all of that is good, I'll re-line the spool and give it a workout in the shop under test conditions and then decide if it needs anything else. I know it will need drag washers, but before anyone else inconveniences themselves I'd like to see if there are any bigger problems.
Bill, supposed to deliver Friday.
Thank you, John. I'll be on the look-out.
Many thanks to John for the infusion of parts. I was able to use about half of what John sent me, but it looks like the rest of the parts were for different reels. Either that or my reel is a bit of a Frankenstein and I didn't know it. Anyway, I'm a bit further along, but now I still need a new dog spring to really test it out. This thing has the old-style flat strip spring. I have a very bad habit of bending them out of shape when reinstalling them, so I think I'll order two of them. I had to reuse the old pilot gear, which worries me. The substitute John sent looks like a different part, with a ring around the notched section of the gear. My reel just has an open notch for the reel spindle to seat into. I tried to fit John's gear as the teeth looked great, but it simply does not mesh with my main gear so it was back to the original. Right now everything seems to work but the anti-reverse which I need to really test it out. Thanks to all of you and John especially for all the encouragement, parts, and help.
Hm. Stock surfmaster gear has the strengthening bind ring on pinion. Yours must have been replaced. I was certain those are -60 drag washers too, because I'm reasonably certain I just took them out of a 150 I built...I wonder if your gears have been changed somehow...were my drags too large? if so, someone has switched you to 155 beachmaster gears, i think. even so that spool should go in the pinion.
Just swap out everything and it'll be good as new! I've had the same axe for 40 years. I've had to replace the handle three times and the head once but it's the same axe, right?
Pretty sure there jiggys in my box like your axe....
Quote from: thorhammer on December 19, 2017, 09:47:54 PM
Hm. Stock surfmaster gear has the strengthening bind ring on pinion. Yours must have been replaced. I was certain those are -60 drag washers too, because I'm reasonably certain I just took them out of a 150 I built...I wonder if your gears have been changed somehow...were my drags too large? if so, someone has switched you to 155 beachmaster gears, i think. even so that spool should go in the pinion.
Yes, the spool goes in, but the pinion you sent does not mesh with my main gear. And yes, the drags you sent were a smidge too big. I think that the gears were changed.
I carefully installed the dog and the old dog spring and it all went together and "worked" after a fashion. The freespool got stuck a couple of times so I opened it up again and polished and re-lubed the sliding free-spool parts and it works a better now. At this point, it's a perfect display reel. If someone picks it up, all the features will function. But I would not trust it to land a fish. As I have an old family rod without a reel in my display area, I think I'll pair it with this reel, spool it with some old dacron line that I still have, and find an old lure to tie to the end and call it art.