OK guys some of the top notch spinning reels have a drag washer that is as big as the lever drag conventionals. Those reels have drag a drag system underneath the spool where there is room for big drag washers. What if I'm using a reel that only has the traditional drag stack on the top of the reel and a big fish or small tuna for instance takes my lure for a long ride.....am I screwed? Can the traditional drag stack of a spinning reel handle LONG drag pulling runs? I know the smaller washers can't dissipate heat like the larger ones can. Would a 25 lb Blackfin Tuna spell disaster for a 5000 or 6000 series spinner that only uses the traditional drag stack?
I have a Penn Battle 6000 with 50# spectra and a 40# leader and have taken YFT and YT to the low 30's with no problem. If they're taking a long run you didn't have the drag set properly! A 30# YFT is easier than a 30# Yellowtail.
That is good to know. I've landed Tuna with spinners before but I use Fin Nor offshore spinners for that. They have the drag stack up top and the big drag assembly underneath the spool as well. The outfit I'm thinking of won't be targeting Tuna but that doesn't mean one won't target my jig/bait. Thanks for your input. A Battle is a pretty good comparison to what I'd end up with but I think I'm leaning 5000ish size.
In this part of the world it's pretty routine to catch YT to maybe 65lb on 6000-8000 sized reels. If they're good quality ones they will handle it. Things like a Shimano Saragosa 6000 or a Stella will absolutely destroy a 25lb tuna.
Quote from: boon on December 22, 2017, 01:41:29 AM
In this part of the world it's pretty routine to catch YT to maybe 65lb on 6000-8000 sized reels. If they're good quality ones they will handle it. Things like a Shimano Saragosa 6000 or a Stella will absolutely destroy a 25lb tuna.
It totally depends upon the reel. You mention blackfin tuna. The west coast guys have no idea what blackfin are capable of. They put a YFT of equal size to shame. Thank goodness they aren't common much over 30 lbs.
Are they tougher than an Amberjack? From what I hear AJ's are similar to a Yellowtail. YFT are tougher than BFT, we don't have Blackfin out here so I have no idea about them. Regardless, a spectra backed Penn 6000/Shimano 8000 sized spinner should handle any 30# tuna regardless of the species.
Ok now lets get back to what the question is about. We've gotten up to 8000 sized reels when the MAX size I'm looking at is a 6000. Were also now talking about reels with the large drag washers on the underneath side of the spool when I'm clearly asking about spinners with the traditional drag stack on top of the reel. I know we all fish different areas of the planet but we can relate the capabilities of reels I'm sure.
Amberjack and Blackfin are like night and day different fights. The Amberjack will beat you with a sack of bricks while a Black fin will drag your butt down the road at 40mph. In order to get any capacity on a 6000 I'll have to use lighter test line in the thinnest brand (Fins 40g 45lb test). I'm wondering if the small drag washers can hold up to the heat they'll see. 45lb test will only see 15lbs of drag. Now that is plenty enough drag to catch anything but some fish can and will make jaw dropping runs while pulling 15lbs of drag. I've caught Yellow fin tuna that made LONG runs pulling 24lbs of drag from a 30W spooled with 80lb test. I'm not trying to set up to catch those but if an untargetted fish takes me for a ride would I have a chance to land it? That is the question.
I'm thinking about a Shimano Spheros 5 or 6000 now. Maybe on one of those Light or X Light jigging rods 15-30 or 20-40lb line. If they are to stiff to cast decently then I'll get away from jigging rods altogether and maybe go with a Penn Carnage II boat spinning rod in a light line wt.
Think of blackfin as little tuny, skipjack tuna, and Bonita. Here in the Gulf they aren't good to eat and used for bait only. Some do eat them anyway.
They are caught with small reels all the time.
The Shimano Spheros 6000 will hold 290yds of 30# spectra. That should handle anything up to a 30# tuna just fine. Just tie on whatever leader is appropriate and have at it. The 5000 is rated for 225yds of 30# spectra and that should do just fine too. The Penn's with the same model # as the Shimano's are at least one size larger as compared to Shimano.
I have and use 99% Shimano reels. But you will see the smaller Shimano spinners just dont hold enough line. The Shimano spinners that use the smaller dime size drag washers are the ones to get. They hold much more.
I had a Twinpower 5000SW and sold it. It just didnt hold enough line compared to the drag rating. You can use that reel for big fish because of the solid drag system but you would have to chase the fish with the boat so not to get spooled.
I dont know the line capacity of the Penn Slammer III 65000 but we love that reel. Everyone on the boat loves it. It is fished right next to a Twinpower 14000SW and it can handle anything the Shimano can handle.
That Slammer 6500 is the size of a Shimano 10k sized reel. I use my Saragosa 10k to throw poppers on long range trips to schoolie tuna/yt/wahoo on the Ridge. I don't want to put words in anyones mouth but I think that's way bigger than he is looking for!
I have a Spheros 6000 and 10000 already. I'm trying not to go over the 6000 size. I have a spool for a 5000 ordered. It will interchange on the 6000 body. So I'll have the choice of either. That reel also can accommodate the 8000 spool which I have. I'll pack as much Fins40G line on it as I can fit. I'll have to choose between 25lb and 45lb test. The 25lb has a 42lb break strength and the 45lb has a 61lb break strength. It is thin as I've seen and strong as hell but expensive. I use my 10000 to toss poppers and an 18000 to jig. I like the Spheros line and I'm using the old "fb" models.
Quote from: handi2 on December 26, 2017, 06:22:35 PM
Think of blackfin as little tuny, skipjack tuna, and Bonita. Here in the Gulf they aren't good to eat and used for bait only. Some do eat them anyway.
They are caught with small reels all the time.
I cannot tell the difference in the taste of fresh Blackfin vs Yellowfin tuna. None of my fishing buddies can either. I have no clue what these statements about Blackfin being only good for bait comes from. The ONLY time we'll sacrifice a Blackfin as bait is if the big Yellowfins are running and we are out of Crevalle or Bonita. At that point its turning a smaller tuna into a couple bigger ones. Depending on how many people we have fishing we may only keep one as Tuna really loses something in the taste department after its been frozen for a while.
Quote from: Nasty Wendy on December 26, 2017, 11:37:31 PM
Quote from: handi2 on December 26, 2017, 06:22:35 PM
Think of blackfin as little tuny, skipjack tuna, and Bonita. Here in the Gulf they aren't good to eat and used for bait only. Some do eat them anyway.
They are caught with small reels all the time.
I cannot tell the difference in the taste of fresh Blackfin vs Yellowfin tuna. None of my fishing buddies can either. I have no clue what these statements about Blackfin being only good for bait comes from. The ONLY time we'll sacrifice a Blackfin as bait is if the big Yellowfins are running and we are out of Crevalle or Bonita. At that point its turning a smaller tuna into a couple bigger ones. Depending on how many people we have fishing we may only keep one as Tuna really loses something in the taste department after its been frozen for a while.
We used to catch a lot of Blackfin Tuna in Bermuda in the 80s. They would often be the first to show up in Tue cum slick, followed by small Yellowfin, then their bigger breather if they were around. We often used them as cut bait for the Yellowfin, occasionally bridled them for Blue Marlin or big Yellowfin, and woupd keep them for table fare if we had nothing else in the box. I recall the meat being darker colored, and stronger in flavor then Yellowfin, and maybe a bit more so then Skipjack (here in the pacific), but still very edible.. unlike the little funny, or Bonito which were strictly used for bait. We did target Blackfin on 6/8/12&16lb line for newly created IGFA line class records as well. I remember them fighting very similarly to a Yellowfin of equal size.
We rarely caught these guys in the GOM, but did run into some when offshore fishing outta the keys.
John
I routinely catch False Albacore in the 8-10lb range on my Battle 2500. Hell ive done it on a Daiwa Samurai $15 Dicks Sporting goods combo
John there are plenty up here in the panhandle and targeted by the Kayak crowd. Most people I know just dont eat them. I guess we are too picky. I have had burgers made from their meat and it was very good. We wouldn't even think of eating a Bonita.
Now back to the reel. If you already have a 6000 size for me I wouldn't bother with anything smaller unless it was just for fun fishing. I bought the Twinpower 5000 for lighter weigh and mass but it just didnt work out with the small line capacity.
A 5000 reel from another manufacturer can have more line capacity. You will have to compare.
A local marine mechanic caught an 87lb gulf Wahoo from an anchored boat with a Penn 8500SS. If it wasn't for the line capacity of these reels it wouldn't have happened. He was fly lining a live Cigar Minnow for King Mackerel while bottom fishing.
Pound for Pound I don't notice a difference between Blackfin and Yellowfin as far as the fight goes. The only difference is that usually you are using lighter tackle when targeting Blackfin. As far as taste, I can't tell the difference when treated properly. Having said that, I like Skippies just as much as both of them , even more in certain dishes like Poke where you have a lot of strong ingredients mixed with it like sesame oil. The Skipjack holds up better when matched with the additives.
I am one of the rare Floridians that doesn't like to fish with spinners except when bailing Dolphin or Yellowtailing (Snapper), so I can't help with your question.
So how much line capacity would you all feel comfortable with? I can get 300 yards of 45lb test on the 5000 which makes 22lbs of drag. I'm not hellbent on using a 5000 but will if the capacity is enough. Anyone think I need more than 300 yards with my drag set at 15lbs?
Quote from: Nasty Wendy on December 27, 2017, 01:35:44 AM
So how much line capacity would you all feel comfortable with? I can get 300 yards of 45lb test on the 5000 which makes 22lbs of drag. I'm not hellbent on using a 5000 but will if the capacity is enough. Anyone think I need more than 300 yards with my drag set at 15lbs?
I think that would be more than sufficient. Gear up for 95% of the fish you will catch, rather than worrying about that 5%, you'll have more fun :)
Quote from: boon on December 27, 2017, 02:54:33 AM
Quote from: Nasty Wendy on December 27, 2017, 01:35:44 AM
So how much line capacity would you all feel comfortable with? I can get 300 yards of 45lb test on the 5000 which makes 22lbs of drag. I'm not hellbent on using a 5000 but will if the capacity is enough. Anyone think I need more than 300 yards with my drag set at 15lbs?
I think that would be more than sufficient. Gear up for 95% of the fish you will catch, rather than worrying about that 5%, you'll have more fun :)
That's the goal. Being able to fish this rig ALL DAY AND NIGHT (within reason of course) without ever feeling like its getting heavy. The question I have about all of this though is can a small drag washer spinning reel handle a fish running a 160 yards pulling 15lbs of drag. Do they dissipate heat good enough to stand up to that? The size that earned the nick name "footballs" won't be a problem but will still be fun BUT its when that 35+lber snatches your jig that has me concerned. It'll be fun finding out. :)
Quote from: handi2 on December 27, 2017, 12:50:41 AM
John there are plenty up here in the panhandle and targeted by the Kayak crowd. Most people I know just dont eat them. I guess we are too picky. I have had burgers made from their meat and it was very good. We wouldn't even think of eating a Bonita.
Now back to the reel. If you already have a 6000 size for me I wouldn't bother with anything smaller unless it was just for fun fishing. I bought the Twinpower 5000 for lighter weigh and mass but it just didnt work out with the small line capacity.
A 5000 reel from another manufacturer can have more line capacity. You will have to compare.
A local marine mechanic caught an 87lb gulf Wahoo from an anchored boat with a Penn 8500SS. If it wasn't for the line capacity of these reels it wouldn't have happened. He was fly lining a live Cigar Minnow for King Mackerel while bottom fishing.
Now Bonita I immediately process as bait. It gets clubbed and chunked just after hitting the deck. We lure the sharks away by tossing the Bonita caucuses in the opposite direction of where we lay out our chunks as bait. The bait goes in when we see the shark go after the caucus.
How much line were you able to get on your 5000? 300 yds? I have a Penn Spinfisher V 8500LL and that sounds like something I'd do with that reel. It would be awesome to get a Wahoo like that. I've only ever got them on the troll.
I'd feel reasonably comfortable fishing bait for Wahoo with the 8000 spool. All day with the 10k. I have 400yds of 65# Maxcuatro on my 10k and add a 50-80# leader.
So now that I'm finished with the Holiday mayhem and the flu >:(, I've put together a rig to try as a general purpose all around rig. I have available to me a Shimano Shperos fb spinner with spools in the 5000, 6000, and 8000 size. It just so happens that I had a spool of 300yds of 40lb Power Pro braid laying around. Well the PP is 10lb test diameter and the 6000 spool holds 300yds of 10lb test so that just fell into place. So we now have a Shimano Shperos 6000fb spooled with 300yds of 40lb PP Braid. And for the rod........I am going to put an OLD Ugly Stik to the test. I have a 7' Ugly Stik SP1100 MH action rod that has been collecting dust in a celing rack for years. I'm not even sure this rod is rated for saltwater as the guides are chrome looking with inserts, you know that cheap Ugly Stik chrome. Now get this, I put the reel on the rod and tested the rod's strength by deadlifting deep drop weights with it. It lifted the 2lb, 3lb, and 5lb weights with a bend that I can actually fight a fish with. Stepped it up a bit and it lifted 7lb, 8lb, and 10lb weights!!! Holy Cow, an old Ugly Stik rated for 8-20lb mono dead lifting 10lbs!!!! So now I'm just curious.......lets put 13lbs on. LIFTED IT!!! The rod was clearly at its limits and the bend was not something I could fight a fish with unless the fish was swimming directly under my feet. The rod was bent 180° suspending 13lbs of weight off the floor. OK I have to give it a shot but with a drag setting just under 10lbs. So this is a fairly small set up that I plan on tying multiple different fishing rigs to to give a run through. I may even toss out a 60g speed jig with it to see that 180° bend come in and pop my fishing buddies eyes out of their heads. Yeah we do all types of crap just for each others' reaction although I'm serious about using this rig to actually catch fish. If this works out I'll upgrade the rod later. Thanks for the insight and interesting conversation here guys. :)
I like the older sp1100s. Not as sensitive as full graphite rods, but the blend of glass makes them tough as nails. I have a 4.6 that I've put many sea trout and Snook in the boat with.
The longest run I ever had was a large bonefish with a Ryobi silver cloud sx4 that nearly spooled me with one long run and then he was done and game willingly to the boat. The drag on that reel held up smoothly. This was back in the 70s when it was still new. It had 15# mono and the drag was set accordingly.
Here in the east we sometimes get some supersized long fins in the canyons that will go 50 or 60 or more. When they are on top chasing bait (usually at dawn) i use my 9500 with scotts under spool drag kit and it does them just fine. Your arm gets a bit weary half way thru the second one but who cares. And they do take long runs at full power and when they finish up its usually a bonzai run and then done. Never had a problem with the 9500 after those expeditions. Takes a licking and keeps on catching. Just like all the old penns. But i cheat a bit i dont use a spinning rod but a heavy bait rod 7465XH with ring guides(25 mm to 12mm not acid wrapped) and that seems to take the starch out of them pretty quick if im in a hurry. Ya just cant do the rail rod trick though. OUCH my arm is aching just thinking of that punishment.