May have found siurce of Zinging , what'cha think Tightlines ?
The line is normal wear on your clicker ratchet plate. This simply effects how load your clicker is. Until the holes become somewhat oblong, and the edges no longer crisp, it doesn't need replacing. You may have a spacing issue (but I always say that since any wear in a reel will result in the spacing being somewhat off).
Putting fresh grease on the reel, and reassembling/testing subassemblies, b4 disassembling and looking for grease displacement.. or simple trial and error shimming may be in order. I always clean everything first, then test the bearings, and replace any with felt roughness given a side load, then I replace the Bellevilles (cupped washers) with new, precondition the drag, grease reassemble, test, shim as needed, and re-test.
I don't see any obvious problems in the photos you've posted so far.
May be that the metal drag plate is badly scored, and needs to be honed flat, or the carbon fiber disc is not flat (unevenly worn, or salt/intrusion under the CF.
You're gonna have to keep digging.
These are not the quietest reels out there to begin with, though fresh grease does quiet them down a bit.
John
K Thanks - so which style ( Need to find out which Drag I have ? ) the Tan Cal's ?
I use tan Cal's for the drag, and Penn blue on everything else. The you can remove the bearing shields to clean them thoroughly, and leave the spool bearings unshielded and lightly oiled with corrosion X if you want better freespool, but I usually pack them with grease, and replace the shields for trolling applications.
John
Thanks again ~ I was unspooling the Mono last night ( so I could get a peek at the drag) But right b4 I was done the line caught + yanked the Vise dowel + Spool right off the towel on the Arm of the Couch , Hit the Floor and the spool popped apart saving me the chore of unrigging the Left side stuff . Luckily Nothing got Bent or Dinged when it crashed but the Beautiful News is that it's the Most Worn out Drag and Plate i've ever imagined , being an 82yr. it may be asbestos ( Grey and Glazed like the steel it's been wearing against . I just want the simplist replacement I can do because I'm certain it is the Root of everything that i was sensing goin' on. Then I think the Shimming of bellevilles could be be a really Dialed in procedure as well ~ I just haven't ever done an Intl. . ( will need tips ) the fiber washer was popped right off the plate on the floor . I must show how old it is in Pic later tonight , gotta go do some errands now , Kenstix .
Oh , almost forgot - with the 1180934 can I use my same gear Shaft ? wont it just go like OEM ? Thanks
Yes show the pictures when you can. I have a lot of the old International parts. I should have a few of the HT-100 drag plates for that reel.
That sounds like good news. I would clean and test the bearings, and procure a new ht-100 drag washer, metal drag disc/plate, new set of Bellevilles, a few shims, and any needed bearings (the pinion is almost always shot on a neclected reel), then clean the reel up while you await your parts.
Keith or myself may be able to help you out on parts, if you just let us know what you need.
John
Thanks , appreciate that . I am pouring some long wahoo heads right now but wanted to take a coffee break + relax for a few . I'll start at an xtra thing that hit me , it makes sense to me know - I believe what I was feeling ( never had my other Intl. 50 that I Cal'd out in the 90's - ever felt like of course ) was the wierdest snag and pull spot of Any reel I've had Drags go - on . From my general life experience with Reels , building a few Harleys back I T D , Rifles and Guitars it's my opinion The Bearings feel perfectly fine and the pinion and Gears look pristine as well ( not chewing or Nicks of Any kind ( the Reel is well greased though ~ Throughout. I suspect a possibility , being an 82 yr. that it didn't get much initial use for years + then after the drags were 30 + yrs. went on some trips that the user was slammin that sucker down ( or hit with big fish on a kinda buffed strike setting trolling on some trips - who knows . I'll check out tighter thursday but so far , I think the 2 Drag parts and the little washers will probably suffice . Also I show U guys the Well - Metal plated (glazed ) fiber washer ( I outta check the fiber washer with a N50 magnet : ) I also dont think I will try to even Dress the solo metal drag plate either - Pics tomorrow
Oh, but I forgot what Alan said before ---> " Re: first post not sure what he's talking about, but the 20T uses a 117DN-30 drag plate. https://www.mysticparts.com/
Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/20t.pdf the plain 20 uses that floating drag washer that looks like car brake. here's the schematic "
maybe that's why U guys like Converting / upgrading a bit more , but I'm thinkin' that fixed back up with N O S Drag I should be cool to do some fish stoppin ' for some time ~ on this reel .
oh + p.S. , stragely enuf there is no Corrosion on the Interior of the Reel that I can see
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
BTW - "CF" = Carbon Fiber
Tight Lines !
Yes Dave you right, CF drag, would not be much dearer, than the old drag gear, now that you have it open, do it right, good luck, cheers Don.
I want to do things Right as well , I haven't worked on any Reel in 15 years . I'm here asking to understand and just dont want to make a 2 month deal with this reel . plz check pic , can this Drag with the holes go in and Replace the original floating Fiber Drag ? This one is Carbon Fiber correct ? Thanks
Your drive plate should have a metal center piece that is held in with screws. Remove that piece and the new drag plate should screw to the original drive plate...
Quote from: handi2 on February 17, 2018, 05:15:37 PM
Your drive plate should have a metal center piece that is held in with screws. Remove that piece and the new drag plate should screw to the original drive plate...
X2
Ok , I have them in front of me ( way easier than a 4/0 for sure ) I ordered the 6A~30 from Scott's last night with Paypal. I wonder why they didn't just build the Drag fixed to the Plate like the intermdiate one now ~ 4th. gen. ( Why'd it take em' so Long to Get Smart ? not Maxwell : ) In The 1st PLace ,Why Float it ? just Received the Plain Steel Drag plate + it's so unscored / brushed that I dont know if it's ever fought a fish . My question for today is - Should I wet sand it ( or Dry ) to actually put some texture on the surface of it ? If so , what grit is best 180, 220, 320 , etc. ?
plz Check Pic
Ok, next carefully remove the 4 screws from the pressure plate and install your new CF drag disc, and you can hone the metal drag disc with wet 400-600grit on a glass plate using semi-circular motions if you like. Then remove the 4 screws holding the metal drag disc to the spool, and install your newly honed 6a. You will end up with extra uneeded parts. You may want to use a drop of blue loctite on the 8 screws during install as well.
John
Cool + Thanks , I have some Blue Loctite as well but not the tan Cal grease ( maybe i'll check eBay) and the Smaller brass plate goes away when I put on the 6A - 30 right ? Is that one of the needs for Shimming because the Brass one and oem Fiber ring are Thicker Than the 6A-30 replacement or Not an Issue ?
Also wanted to mention that my Pinion looks pristine at least as clean or cleaner ( other than grease ) than either 2 in Pic . Everything looks Primo inside of this reel Except for the Drag System .
You don't use the center plate anymore. After its removed you have a flat surface to screw the new drag plate down.
You might be able to get by w/o Cal's this time sense the CD should come greased, but I always like to clean and re-greaae just for peace of mind. Tough to tell if you need shims until you reassemble and test.
John
Thanks Keith and john , I will look in my old reel tool + S-water plano and see about the Grease - need to chk anyway . I will post pics , I'll do it when the 6A CF arrives this next week hopefully .
Keith --> " I had a very strict father who always told me "Don't do it at all if you're not gong to do it right ".
My grandpa used to tell me basically the same thing " Either do what You do with Excellence or find something
Else to do " so ~ 10-4
Kenstix
Hi Kenstix, you have an order coming from Scotts, see if you can get, 2oz of cals grease, also two or three shims, & if your in dout, get 4 new spring washers as well. good luck, cheers Don.
Thanks Donnyboat ( + others help too) I look forward to Getting the 20 solid. I'll probably just run over local to Sav-on T + Get the washers and maybe some grease if I dont have some here ( been a while but i may still) .
could anybody Render or breakdown where I typically Shim ( or is it typical ~ on these on Pinion i assume . Does the spool look like it hangs a bit to the right ( that I noticed on this 1 )to begin with. or does that indicate anything or not ~ or are they all different ? Kenstix
You may not need any shims at all. When you increase the drag the spool will move towards the handle side of the reel.
I rebuilt my 20 with the same parts and no shims were needed. Only bearings, bellvilles, and the new drag. It's a shelf queen and not fished.
Keith
After reading through all the Varying ways to do them , I think on the bellevilles I think i'll leave 2 old ones and change 2 with new and Put it back together with new drag + see . I'm seeing too many opinions on the Stacking config. ( but I found a pretty thorough breakdown from John/Tightlines ) I will be Fishing 30-40 lb. line for Hoo + such ( YF ~ YT) + troll . standard freespool is fine with me it would probly be a 6 - 12 oz. ( or Lrgr ) Mackerel Anyway .
I only mentioned using 2 old washers as to be Conservative on the re-assembly not to cut corners, because Now I have more questions than Answers on the B V's . So Typically , Since I have never rearranged a Reel's spring washer configuration ~ is there an agreed consensus on just a standard arrangement ( like factory ) for them ?
John, Keith, Alan , whoever - I've nevr really been bothered from all of me Reels for 45+ years to ever even think about it ~ guess i've just used spool and Drag adjustment to my liking + cant attribute these factors to ever farming a nice Fish ( although other things have . So if the (( )) is the standard config , Should I start there when I go to Reassemble the New drag to check things out after my parts get here ? . I did find My existing small tub of Blue Reel Grease so I'll pick up some Cal's Tan tomorrow + the small washers .
Sorry for the late reply, been working on the boat and offshore fishing all weekend. Great day out there today.
Anyways, don't get too hung up on either the Bellevilles, or the shimming thing. Just clean, lube, and reassemble with stock(duplicate what you find for Belleville config when you took it apart, if I remember stock was originally ()(), changing to (()) will give you a steeper curve with more max drag, but may require shimming. You can test your max drag at strike, and reel functionality. If you are unhappy with the drag curve, or have any problems, then think about shimming or changing the bv config.
John
Thanks John , it is kinda what instinct was telling me ( but good to hear it . Which state + what type of fish bitin' ?
Quote from: Kenstix on February 20, 2018, 07:12:17 AM
Thanks John , it is kinda what instinct was telling me ( but good to hear it . Which state + what type of fish bitin' ?
Hawaii.
Mahi, and Shibi (Yellowfin Tuna) for me today, but there has been a pretty good Striped Marlin bite going on since late last week.
Caught 3 yesterday, and went 4 for 9 on Mahi, and 2 for 6 on Shibi today. I was fishing solo today. I cut up the tuna, and 2 Mahi, and dropped 53lbs of Mahi on the auction block this evening.
Cool ( We used to Fish Catalina Stripe Tourn ) if Shibi is YF , then what is Ahi ( Bigeye ? or do U get the Pacific B-fin somewhere with cool enuf water ? Or is Ahi just the general Tuna name
Quote from: Kenstix on February 20, 2018, 08:31:38 AM
Cool ( We used to Fish Catalina Stripe Tourn ) if Shibi is YF , then what is Ahi ( Bigeye ? or do U get the Pacific B-fin somewhere with cool enuf water ? Or is Ahi just the general Tuna name
Shibi refers to small tuna of both species, Ahi is larger tuna of both species. Usually if Bigeye are caught they say Bigeye. Blue in are exceedingly rare here. Most of what are caught by the Trollers are Yellowfin.
Good luck with the 20.
I've just fiddled with a couple of old-school Int 50 (honey handles and chrome bars). One has been fine with ()() belleville arrangement but the other was always not quite right. Even with the pre-set screwed right back, there was too much drag immediately you moved the lever out of free.
Popped the belleville in as ((() and all is now fine. Gives me a better drag curve than the steep (()) and fixed the spacing arrangement too. I now have a soft 'stripping drag' for letting out line when drifting for sharks or holding against fast drift and plenty of drag available for 50lb line.
The point is don't be worried about changing the bellevilles around till you get what you want. Sometimes it may take a few goes, as with the 80STW I did a couple of years ago.
Voice of experience - make a brief note each time of the belleville arrangement and any spacers and the effect it has on the drag, freespool, any rubbing etc. or you find you go through everything more than once as you get confused over which did what!
Thanks , UKChris - Received the Inter- m. Drag from Scott's this week (Donnyboat ) but have a couple of other chores to do on it, as well . After getting it back together , I will check how the drag Ramp-up seems , but I have a couple of other things to dial-in before reassembly . I am cutting some W-house Micarta right now so I have to finish some intricate Ripping for knife scales but will Return in a few of Hours with Side-plate Pics for question as well . Do these need to be knocked , Punched +/or Drilled out ? Any help with these Procedures would be Appreciated . Thanks ~ Kenstix
for the white nylon buttons. you have to remove the e-clips, then the chromed buttons. then the white nylon collars. not sure about the bearing cup, but it is threaded in some models. the sleeves for the clicker and handle drive shaft are pressed in and will have to be pressed out.
First remove the 3 flat head screws that hold the main gear retaining plate on the main gear (Make sure you use a screw driver thst fits, cause you can damage them). Then remove the drive shaft, then the main gear, then the screws that hold the bridge, then the bridge, then the nut that holds the clicker pawl in place, then the clicker knob, then spring, then pawl (install them in reverse in the other side plate. Then remove the c-clips on the indicators, then the indicators, and springs, fibally use a piece if wood or rubber mallet to remove the indicator cups. Reinstall in reverse. If they are sticky, polish the outside of the metal indicators a bit. Reinstall everything in reverse in the other side plate.
I think this is all covered in some of the posted tutorials. I will be travelling for the next week or so, so hopefully Keith or someone else can help you along.
John
will have the rest of my parts this week, so wondering if You guys Loctite Any of these Screws down ( Please check pic Or, Howabout punchlist of screws on an international ( Interior + exterior ) to Loctite or Not to Loctite ? p.s. , Alan the bearing cup was easy it just slides in + out with the Set Screw - retainer
I would go ahead and use a drop of blue loctite on each of the 4 screws that hold the ratchet plate, metal drag plate, CF drag disc, and 3 screws that hold the main gear retainer plate. Also, some red loctite on the hut that holds the clicker.
We're you ever successful in changing out the clicker pawl retainer from 1 plate to the other?
There are actually 3 different types of clicker assemblies that were available on these reels over the years.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/36C-50S.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/36C-50S.aspx)
Oldest is not threaded w/ no retaining nut on the inside of plate (I believe it is threaded into the plate, second gen is threaded through plate, and has a retaining nut and washer threaded inside plate, latest gen has notched ears in plate and is adjustable through a knurled nut on the outside of plate.
For gen 1 and 2 (which your plates appear to be), use a piece of leather and vice grip, along with heat and penetrant to slowly unread the clicker. It is easy to damage the chrome on the bronze here, and the aluminum may have corroded and be holding the clicker firmly. I have replaced a few, and have upg4aded from a gen 2 to a gen 3 side plate w/an entirely new clicker assembly, but the 1 and 2 always seemed a bit troublesome. You may be able to clamp the part in place and turn the plate itself to remove. If you have trouble removing the old, you may want to try to find a new clicker part by contacting someone with a stock of older parts (JDL treasures? Or someone on the east coast who specializes in servicing older internationals). You would need to find tye first gen 36-50 complete clicker assembly (no longer available from Penn or Scott's) since tye 36C-50 (with 36N parts) will not work. The change in clicker parts always creates some problems for me since the second and 3rd gen clicker knobs, pawls, and retainers do not work on the origional gen 1 reels. I have actually had machinist friends machine down a newer style pawl to the correct specs of a gen 1, or have tried small shims under the clicker knob to extend the hope pawl slightly when the correct part was unavailable. I run into this problem the most in the 130H reels.
I like the 3rd gen style clickers the best, and parts are still available, so when looking for a used International II reel, try to find one with the newer adjustable clicker assembly (I Don't believe this was available on the size 20 reel?).
Here's the gen 2 and 3 for an 80STW...
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/36C-80STW.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/36C-80STW.aspx)
Hope that helps?
John
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Thanks John , the 1st. plate was so messed up Prior to me that I was at liberty to remove stuff Any Method I chose , with no consequence : i.e Cobalt bits around clicker and so forth . everything went fine ~ Will use best parts from the 2nd. Gen Clickers , Check pic. I have the Parts for 1 Good assembly now ( Note : the washer under nut is Curved like belleville - dont think visible in Pic tho
P.S. ~ I do have to admit , Penn makes Me Shake My Head at some of the Designs on these things ( So Close but So Jacked in some ways
I found a pretty easy way to Remove the Locator Pin Bushings , a broken off cobalt bit with the bottom hex base worked Perfect for correct diameter ( but I oiled 1st. ) then just Push
Hi Folks ~ Does Anyone know How I can get a-hold of John Baker or His frames ?
Thanks ~ Kenstix