Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Fishing => Fishing Line, Knots, Splices and Rigging => Topic started by: Reel Beaker on March 24, 2018, 07:38:25 AM

Title: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Reel Beaker on March 24, 2018, 07:38:25 AM
Hi Guys,

My definition for heavy mono is actually 40 lbs and above. Actually, i am trying to tie some 40 lb mono. I have been tying the clinch knot with 40 lb mono for some time and have been getting "pig tails" near my swivel as in my other post. According to Animated Knots, the improved clinch is not recommended for mono above 30 lbs. So, i am looking for new knots for heavy mono in the range of 40-80 lb range.

The knots i know how to tie currently are the clinch knot and uni-knot.

I just googled the centauri knot yesterday and is looking for an alternative for the centauri knot for heavy mono.Always better to have an alternative right? I was trying the palomar knot for 40 lb recently,  but also had problems tying it .......

What knots do you guys use and what do you recommend?
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: wailua boy on March 24, 2018, 08:04:33 AM
I think by lessening the amounts of twists, the improved clinch knot can be used with heavier mono without seeing much weakening of line; granted there maybe better knots like the palomar. I regularly tie clinch knots with 60lb when attaching terminal tackle.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: bill19803 on March 24, 2018, 08:40:43 AM
many  long rangers use   the  san  diego  knot   for their terminal  tackle. How   you  tighten  it  is  very important    to its  success.  It  must  be  lubricated.  it  must  be  tightened   slowly   and it  must be   pulled  TIGHT  It   works  on big   stuff like  130   flouro  200  mono.  Takes  a p air  of pliers  to pull  it  tight   with the  bigger  stuff. Many  tackle  boxes  on  long range  have been  fitted   with  an   eye  bolt to  assist on pulling  tight   with  pliers.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: philaroman on March 24, 2018, 09:06:07 AM
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=21876.0
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Long Enuff on March 24, 2018, 12:50:00 PM
I have good success with a Trilene knot for heavier line. Just be sure to lubricate and pull tight.

http://www.animatedknots.com/trilene/index.php
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Swami805 on March 24, 2018, 12:57:07 PM
I'd use a San Diego on 40lb and double Sand Diego on 60lb and up. Palomar works great on 40lb too.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on March 24, 2018, 01:22:09 PM
40lb mono/floro is about as heavy as I get. I use a palomar or 4 turn clinch - don't forget to lube it ;)
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Keta on March 24, 2018, 02:03:56 PM
To me "heavy" is something between 80 and 300 pound.


Try a "Springer Knot".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDokeGDkAt8&feature=share (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDokeGDkAt8&feature=share)
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Gfish on March 24, 2018, 03:26:21 PM
Yeah. Any line I can't double-up before tying is heavy mono. >or= to 40lb. I use an improved clinch--- 2 loops around the hook/lure eye, then there's a 1/2 granny in the end a the line in case it still slips. Last part important, 'cause I don't tighten to the point of creasing the mono., let it tighten by itself, it ain't gonna come undone.
Also, max. of 4 twists can reduce creasing
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: MarkT on March 24, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
I use a San Diego knot. It's easy and strong.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: SoCalAngler on March 24, 2018, 05:40:02 PM
I use the SD knot also. Lite lines up to 30 lb I use 7 turns. 40-60 5 turns. It works for me, I never lose a hook and have a curly-Q at the end of my line. If you ever do see a curly-Q at the end of your line when you lose a hook that means your knot came undone.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Keta on March 24, 2018, 07:41:32 PM
The SD works real well.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: mike1010 on March 24, 2018, 08:42:40 PM
I also like the San Diego jam knot.

This is a little OT, but when using most light (under 30 lb) copolymers, I've found it important to double the line when tying to terminal tackle.  Most copolymers are soft and might not stand up well to the eyes they are tied through.

--Mike
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Three se7ens on March 25, 2018, 12:00:32 AM
Ive had good luck with a perfection loop in 40 lb fluoro.  That knot is one of my favorites for leader to lure or terminal tackle. 
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: boon on March 25, 2018, 12:04:48 AM
I just tie unis up to maybe 150lb, especially where strength isn't absolutely paramount, i.e. I am only using that line weight for abrasion resistance rather than outright pull.

Any heavier line, or where I want to be able to pull really, really hard on a fish, I tie the AG Chain knot; it's a true 100% knot that you can't really get wrong.

EDIT: Or crimp.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: bill19803 on March 25, 2018, 01:04:06 AM
if  you want to check  strength  of  knots    try   paulusjustfishin.com

the  data   there  is   from  actual measurements, nothing  has  been  added in  years  now   but  data is  still  good,  and  its  not  opinionated   but  factual
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on March 25, 2018, 01:54:52 AM
x2 bill - the data is still good!
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Benni3 on March 25, 2018, 03:03:48 AM
Quote from: Gfish on March 24, 2018, 03:26:21 PM
Yeah. Any line I can't double-up before tying is heavy mono. >or= to 40lb. I use an improved clinch--- 2 loops around the hook/lure eye, then there's a 1/2 granny in the end a the line in case it still slips. Last part important, 'cause I don't tighten to the point of creasing the mono., let it tighten by itself, it ain't gonna come undone.
Also, max. of 4 twists can reduce creasing
x2,,,,that's how I do my 8lb and 3lb fly line 3 times stronger  ;D
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: MarkT on March 25, 2018, 03:17:15 AM
I don't like the Palomar. For lighter line I still like/use the improved clinch. I like the San Diego for lures and ringed hooks. It's what we were using for big tuna last week in Puerto Vallarta. The Trilene is good for heavier line and is pretty easy to tie correctly. I caught a cow using the Springer the first time I tried it, it's that easy to get right. I don't know that I'd use it for 40#. The uni is easy and good, that's why it's the UNIversal knot.  Use 5 wraps for 40# and 4 for 80-130#. As always, the best knot to tie is the knot you tie best.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: boon on March 25, 2018, 03:39:04 AM
Quote from: bill19803 on March 25, 2018, 01:04:06 AM
if  you want to check  strength  of  knots    try   paulusjustfishin.com

the  data   there  is   from  actual measurements, nothing  has  been  added in  years  now   but  data is  still  good,  and  its  not  opinionated   but  factual

The knot data there is a mess, he has the FG breaking at some stupidly low number where other people who have tested it under IGFA conditions have found it a lot better.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Three se7ens on March 25, 2018, 03:42:20 AM
Quote from: boon on March 25, 2018, 03:39:04 AM
Quote from: bill19803 on March 25, 2018, 01:04:06 AM
if  you want to check  strength  of  knots    try   paulusjustfishin.com

the  data   there  is   from  actual measurements, nothing  has  been  added in  years  now   but  data is  still  good,  and  its  not  opinionated   but  factual

The knot data there is a mess, he has the FG breaking at some stupidly low number where other people who have tested it under IGFA conditions have found it a lot better.

The FG is an easy knot to tie, but not easy to tie right.  A poorly done FG wont hold hardly any weight, but a well done one will not break at the knot. 
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Reel Beaker on March 25, 2018, 03:47:25 PM
Quote from: Gfish on March 24, 2018, 03:26:21 PM
Yeah. Any line I can't double-up before tying is heavy mono. >or= to 40lb. I use an improved clinch--- 2 loops around the hook/lure eye, then there's a 1/2 granny in the end a the line in case it still slips. Last part important, 'cause I don't tighten to the point of creasing the mono., let it tighten by itself, it ain't gonna come undone.
Also, max. of 4 twists can reduce creasing

Would you consider these twp lines poorly tied? Creasing-->Pigtails?

https://imgur.com/a/KWrgN (https://imgur.com/a/KWrgN)

https://imgur.com/a/H1o6Q (https://imgur.com/a/H1o6Q)
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Gfish on March 26, 2018, 12:53:11 AM
It looka like there's a slight crease in the line. Do you think it'ed be enough to cut down on your lb. test? My guess is, if the line gets friction heated enough while being creased,  it'll negitively impact it's strength. Best to test. Repeated tests witha scale might reveal the answer.

I've lost some nice keeper/eaters at,  and just above the knot.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Benni3 on March 26, 2018, 02:31:30 AM
Quote from: Gfish on March 26, 2018, 12:53:11 AM
It looka like there's a slight crease in the line. Do you think it'ed be enough to cut down on your lb. test? My guess is, if the line gets friction heated enough while being creased,  it'll negitively impact it's strength. Best to test. Repeated tests witha scale might reveal the answer.

I've lost some nice keeper/eaters at and just above the knot.
this fly fisherman expert at cabeles said spit on you knots before tightening  ::) but it works :D
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Reel Beaker on March 28, 2018, 03:43:09 AM
Quote from: Gfish on March 26, 2018, 12:53:11 AM
It looka like there's a slight crease in the line. Do you think it'ed be enough to cut down on your lb. test? My guess is, if the line gets friction heated enough while being creased,  it'll negitively impact it's strength. Best to test. Repeated tests witha scale might reveal the answer.

I've lost some nice keeper/eaters at and just above the knot.

Unfortunately that is 30 lb line. Dont think i can get any lower than that...... It hurts when you arent good at tying knots. If practice makes perfect, a good knot is long overdue.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Gfish on March 28, 2018, 07:16:40 AM
Gonna suggest you use just enough line to finish without havin to trim any, or even pull more than 1/4 in. or so to chinch.  For me, this'ed mean 3-4 twists, then just barely get the end through the bottom(double looped around the hook/swivel/lure -eye), so the granny knot is up against the double loop, the whole clinch knot somewhat loose.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Reel Beaker on April 14, 2018, 12:20:11 PM
Been practicing tying more knots, snelling hooks and this is what i have concluded...

Hooks have an "ideal" line diameter to use while snelling.... once you exceed this diameter, it becomes really hard to snell the hook properly w/o getting "pigtails" and kinks. This is due to the line rubbing against the inside of the hook eye while pulling the standing line. So either you switch to a larger hook, or you use high tensile, low diameter line to tie your rigs. So forget about snelling high poundage lines to small/medium size hooks... it isnt going to work well anyway....

For tying heavy heavy mono knots, you need to snug the knot and make sure it forms properly before the final draw on the standing line. For light mono it is not a prob as the knots forms readily. For heavy mono, it becomes a large problem as there is too much friction involved and applying too much pressure on your line, stretches it, and brings it beyond its elasticity point, forming "pigtails" as we call it. When tying knots, you need to know the "point of no return" of your class/test line. Unless you have some kind of super lube, it is best to snug the knot by hand, instead of snugging it by pulling the standing/tag end. But of course you need prior knowledge of the knot, how it forms and what it should look like if you use this method.

Do you guys agree on what i said or is it back to the drawing board again?

Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Gfish on April 14, 2018, 02:41:01 PM
Yeah, good points.
Nothin worse when fishin and gettin bit, than a combo. of losin an expensive rig/lure, thinkin about a fish havin to deal with a hook(s) still in it's mouth, then havin to retie another rig.
I launch my yak with 5 rigged poles and always answer the beach people's questions 'bout it: "It's too hard out there to change to a diffrent rig and tie a good knot, best for me to rig-up at home and deal with the excess rod thing out there, as best I can".
Not braggin, but I can't remember the last time I bust off a rig at the knot. Last time fishin I bent a hook ona jig gettin it back offa the reef, and pulled another one oudda a sea turtle's shell under a LOTS a strain. Then there's those 2 big 'uns that shredded my leader on the reef and probably ended up with swimbaits hangin out their mouths(ouch!) and some line... Alright I am braggin. Sounds like ya got it, or your gettin it down, though.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Swami805 on April 14, 2018, 02:42:28 PM
Seems reasonable. Alot of it is hair splitting tying knots. Pick a few knots, learn to tie them correctly and you should be fine. I've been tieing the same knots forever and know I get them right. I'm sure there's better knots out there but I'm too lazy to re-invent the wheel. That's just me.
I snell hooks too but have never done it with heavy line and normally on octopus hooks with offset eyes or those tiny trout hook with no eye. If you watch it closely as you snell it it's a thing of beauty while you cinch it as the wraps come tight. If it's not looking right cut it off and start over. Same with the San Diego jam, if it's not right you'll see it's not cinching right.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Rivverrat on April 14, 2018, 10:50:36 PM


I have found the same thing regarding the FG.
The FG & RP being 2 knots where the line & not the knot breaks when testing using Ande line. Many who claim their knots test out stronger than the line they are using are unaware of the actual break strength of the used.
Title: Re: Knots for heavy Monofilament
Post by: Brendan on April 15, 2018, 01:17:52 AM
Tournament line will be accurate I think. As far as giving you an idea of how well you did. On the original post knot for heavy leader material, Dominick lead me to the Baja Loop. Don't know how it tests but worked for my application. Tight lines, Brendan.