I just got done checking this kit and it did very well.
(https://i.imgur.com/VEVZRSG.jpg)
Basically this would be your layout, (5) Carbon Fiber and (5) metal washers
(https://i.imgur.com/O8nfK53.jpg)
The new Carbon Fiber washers are 1.40mm in thickness
(https://i.imgur.com/fNB9fzN.jpg)
I don't remember the size of the older Keyed washers, these are 1.90mm
(https://i.imgur.com/fK7vJVs.jpg)
and the last Thick washer on top is 4.90mm
(https://i.imgur.com/KFTh8mA.jpg)
Adam mentioned some were having minor issues with the height of the stack and wanted to make adjustments...one of the reason he has me as well to check them out.
All fit in nicely, plenty of travel with the star and starts very soft. Mine is increasing a little quick, but I'm sure it's related to the older gear sleeve, those are a little thicker than the custom SS
(https://i.imgur.com/XbZFCpR.jpg)
I did some pulling tests, while holding the reel in my hands at differenty point.
Drags felt a little rough at first, but got much smoother as I kept pulling.
I pushed it to around 50lb and decided that was good enough.
(https://i.imgur.com/pyJvd9s.jpg)
Carbon Fiber washers are much thicker and appear to be of a better quality, I don't believe these would fail under normal conditions.
I'm also showing my special tool to set the washers in
(https://i.imgur.com/S2AEeFP.jpg)
Adam did a good job making these washers really snug...that is how you would want them.
You will not find a better tool to push them in :), I use my chopsticks a lot when working on reels, especially bearings.
Best,
Sal
Looks great Adam and Sal!
Can't wait to try mine out!
Nice grouper digger you got there, Sal!
Sal: That special tool is in use in my repertoire of tools on my bench also, It has many uses. 8) ;D Thanks for sharing this.............................Joe
Thank Sal! That looks great.
The thin metal washers went from .060" to .074", and I increased the thick metal washer from .135" to .188" A number of kits, especially on the last run needed to be shimmed with extra metal washers to bring the stack to the correct height. I made the changes to address this, and will be using this as the standard for all the kits from now on.
I will be filling orders for new kits first, and then I will have spare washer sets available. As with all of my kits, it the ears failed or the washer came apart I will replace it at no charge. These are a wear item, so I dont cover normal wear under that, but replacement cf washers will be available for purchase.
Adam, Sal,
Do you recommend using Cal's on these kits or running them dry?
I always use Cals on my kits.
Quote from: Three se7ens on September 27, 2018, 08:08:40 PM
I always use Cals on my kits.
Adam,
That's what I figured.
The reason I'm asking is because of the eared carbon washers.
Wondering if that affects it in any way.
Thanks!
Chad
Same here Chad, all reel I have get Cals, even the tiny washers.
Sal
Great work fellas...really nice kit! 8)
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 27, 2018, 08:51:42 PM
Same here Chad, all reel I have get Cals, even the tiny washers.
Sal
Thank you Sal!
I figured as much, just thought I'd check. :)
Great Work Fellas. ;)
Always enjoy reading about these drag threads, great work!
I have the older insert kit and in fact I had to use extra washers to compensate for the height. I did try to get a max drag on the reel. I tightened the star down good and got a whopping 79lbs. I've caught 2 sharks on this set up, not big sharks but nice enough and I have to say the reel is great overall with the drag kit. There's a sense of security fishing with the reel.. Definitely definitely hard to fish high drag haha. VERY!!
It's good to know the new drag discs are much more snugg and stronger as mines (first gen) already show wear..
(http://alantani.com/gallery/26/medium_14016_21_11_18_8_51_37.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=26037)
Adam can attest that I have purchased and installed many of his insert kits. I have them in reels all over the NW of Florida and S Alabama.
When I noticed the drag washers ears wearing off I started puting them in dry. None of them have come back with a drag washer problem using them dry. Penn put them in dry a lot longer than we have used them wet.
With the new thicker drag washers that eliminated the problems of the thinner greased washers.
Quote from: handi2 on November 22, 2018, 08:17:45 PM
Adam can attest that I have purchased and installed many of his insert kits. I have them in reels all over the NW of Florida and S Alabama.
When I noticed the drag washers ears wearing off I started puting them in dry. None of them have come back with a drag washer problem using them dry. Penn put them in dry a lot longer than we have used them wet.
With the new thicker drag washers that eliminated the problems of the thinner greased washers.
So on the newer drags would you leave them dry or go ahead and grease them?
Grease em
It has been found that greased washers work better than dry... grease them up.
Sal
Yes the grease should be Cals or a teflon based grease, happy fishing cheers Don.
With the new thicker drag washers having them greased will not cause the ears to wear off like the original ones did. Defiantly grease them and wipe off the excess.
I finally got around to servicing my 2-12/0s yesterday.
The reels had steel gears, insert kit with delron washers below gear, and above drag stack, Stainless sleeve, and dog. They were spooled with straight 100lb mono, and fished on Rainshadow STUB 80 rods. They saw 1 year of heavy use trolling big lures for around 750hours. Around 2,500-5,000lbs of Pelagics including Blue Marlin and Yellowfin Tuna over 100lbs were caught on these 2 reels.
Overall I was very impressed with the drag insert functionality. When trolling for tuna and marlin drags were set for 35lbs. I ran them at around 25lbs when trolling for Wahoo, Mahi, or Skipjack.
They handled blistering runs of 400-700yds with fight times on fish over 100lbs lasting between 45-90 minutes. Most fish were fought from shotgun style rod holders.
There was noticable heat on the gear sleeve/star/handle arm during a few fights. Drag performance remained great throughout most of the year with silky smooth pull, after about 9 months I noticed some minor rod tip bounce on start up, but overall much smoother and stronger than stock (which I fished on 1-12/0 throughout the same period). Besides ocassional heat issues, I also noticed I had to pay attention to where the drag star was positioned and got in the habit of checking the drags before each outing. With higher drag numbers, turning the star a relatively small amount did change the drag setting more quickly resulting in a steeper drag curve with less fine tuning /adjustment possible. But hey, you can't get something for nothing.
When I serviced the reels last night, I noticed there was visable corrosion/electrolysis/aluminum powder on the surface of the inserts, but I was able to remove them from the gears with minor persuasion and the insert looked good after cleaning. The sleeves and maingear were still in good overall working condition. The drag washers were a bit grimy/dirty but after cleaning they still looked really good. No noticable wear marks, tabs were intact with crisp edges, though some minor fiber seperation could he observed on the tabs. They looked almost new after cleaning and regreasing with Cal's. The Stainless gear sleeve had a few shiny spots where the metal drag washers rode, but no marring or ridges were evident. There was some light surface corrosion on the gear sleeve where it fit the handle, which was easily removed with steel wool. The gear sleeve and stock star threads were undamaged, fit tight, and still turned easily. The undergear delron washer looked new. One overstack washer looked the same, while the other had melted and sunk down into the thick metal/upper drag washer. It still turned easily though.
One reel had a badly deformed reel seat. I am not sure if I inadvertly overtightened the rod brace or if this happened when fighting big fish. The reel mechanic in me suspects the former, but the fisherman likes to believe it was because of a big fish. 3 of the 4 bearings (which had been fully packed with grease prior to use) were toast. Everything else was good.
Aside from 1 delron washer, 3 bearings, and a stand the reels were simply cleaned/greased/reassembled and put back into service. I sold them to a friend who plans to test them on some big fish.
I do prefer fishing the 130 class lever drags, but these senators with insert kits and SS sleeve and dog are more than capable of handling heavy trolling duty and landing big fish.
John
Wow, John, what a thorough report that I really enjoyed reading, and a great testament to the drag kits, thanks for sharing! Darin
Great Work John. I only get to go a few times a year, but I meticulously go through my reels after every trip.
Great to see those inserts getting it done for you.
Adam makes some fine upgrades.
I really like his handle arms too. The offset ones are the best.
From my Experience, The 12/0 insert seems to work the better than the bigger ones.
I wish I could fish more often, but I have to work and am 700 miles from the coast.
Two months from now, I will be doing what I love to do the most. ;)
Very cool, thanks for sharing!
Any update on the availability of the drag kit for the 12/0's? I also need a power arm for it too.
The big senator kits will be available around the end of next week.