Need advice from the brain trust here.
I'm gearing up for a hoped-for trip out of San Diego next year, and need to know if the Penn Fathom 60ld 2 speed is up to the task for the mid to large sized tuna. I'm thinking that with 40lbs drag it may work as an 80-100lb reel.
Anyone have one? How's it working out?
I couldn't see how it wouldn't. The biggest I've fished is a 40N and it would do fine as a 60-80 reel.
The Man
First off I've yet to fish for tuna. But based on the 60 having the same drag components as the 40nld2. I believe your asking to much from this reel if your expecting to get 40 lbs. of drag from it. Some use the 40N 2 speed for 80 line & that is pushing things based on my testing. the Fathom 40 2 speed will produce 22 lbs. of usable, fishable drag.
Based on the drag performance & how these reels act under load 60 line is the best max line for for long term durability.
I'm also fully aware a boat or two out your way have them on deck as loaners spooled with 80. The Fathom series are fantastic reels even more so when one considers what they cost. My advice is not to fish them as a reel for 80 line & by no means expect they will perform well above 30 lbs. of drag long or short term ... Jeff
Quote from: Rivverrat on November 19, 2018, 07:25:22 PM
First off I've yet to fish for tuna. But based on the 60 having the same drag components as the 40nld2. I believe your asking to much from this reel if your expecting to get 40 lbs. of drag from it. Some use the 40N 2 speed for 80 line & that is pushing things based on my testing. the Fathom 40 2 speed will produce 22 lbs. of usable, fishable drag.
Based on the drag performance & how these reels act under load 60 line is the best max line for for long term durability.
I'm also fully aware a boat or two out your way have them on deck as loaners spooled with 80. The Fathom series are fantastic reels even more so when one considers what they cost. My advice is not to fish them as a reel for 80 line & by no means expect they will perform well above 30 lbs. of drag long or short term ... Jeff
I agree with that. I have 40N (narrow version of 60). When i tested mine with about 22 lbs of drag at full, side plate is getting hot quickly with some binding at high gear. 80-100 lbs will need heavy frame reel like makaira or penn visx .
They have been fishing the 40N two speeds at Guadalupe island with 80 lb test for a few years now. Many yft in the 80-125 lb class have been landed on them. With that said if your fishing the local bft and you get hooked to a big one a 30 two speed at a minimum will be needed and 50 two speed would be best,
I took my FTM40NLD2 on a trip I went on for those fish two weeks ago but they would not bite the 60 lb test that day. 40 lb test was the max that would get picked up so as you can guess no really big fish were landed that day. One around 90 lbs was landed on the 60 but that was at the end of the trip in the dark and it was the only fish to bite 60 lb.
I brought 30, 40, 60 and a 80 lb setups with the 60 being the 40N and the 80 being a 30 two speed. If I went on a trip for those fish again I'd bring the same setups and if I got hooked to a jumbo on the 30 two speed I pray I'd get the fish in.
Cal Sheets is also doing mods to the TRQ and FTM 40's to better fish 80 lb on if you choose to go that route.
I for one would not go for the FTM 60 and would look at a 30 two speed to use at that 80 lb line test.
SoCal thanks for posting this.
I guess having this knowledge I would now say in stock form I would not fish the Fathom 40 2 speed with 80. Now I need to call Cal's & talk with him. His wife is a hoot & holler... Jeff
Quote from: Rivverrat on November 20, 2018, 05:00:35 PM
SoCal thanks for posting this.
I guess having this knowledge I would now say in stock form I would not fish the Fathom 40 2 speed with 80. Now I need to call Cal's & talk with him. His wife is a hoot & holler... Jeff
I don't really know about that. One of the long range boats out of SD 2-3 years ago was recommending the 40N's for 80 lb at the Lupe. If I was going to use 80 lb on my 40N I'd set the drags at 18-20 at strike. Once the fish settles down and the the true fight begins I could bump the lever past strike to get around 22-24 lbs if needed.
At Guadalupe island a combination of both power and speed is good to have and many times you have to play beat the shark.
But, the local bft are different.
SoCal,you've got me thinking now. Any reel that goes 2 seasons on the boats is reason enough for me ask questions. I've had 4 of these reels come across my bench 40N's. to were brand new headed for the Great Lakes.
None of these reels where first production run. So there could not be any associated problems in that regard. if there were any. The other thing I've found out it's not really fair for me to compare the Fathom & Torque of the same model. The Torques in most cases I've personally seen perform noticeably better than the Fathoms which they should.
I guess also I need to define my definition of an 80 lb. reel. I fish 80 at 24 - 25 lbs. drag. Like your self I start at a lower setting & increase as needed. Just because a reel can produce a fishable level of drag say 24 lbs. in my mind doesnt define it for the appropriate line class that goes with it. In my mind at the time this is or "was" a maxed out reel fished at this level
But any reel that does so for a season or two on the boats out there.... well yes this gives me pause for reconsideration. I will look into this some more when I get the chance.
Another very pertinent caveat, I've never to any degree fished these reels. My prior thoughts & statement were made based on what I felt & saw doing simple test after servicing them
So others know, none of what I've said here is meant in any way to be a knock on these fantastic reels. Discussing reel performance or increasing it is what makes some of us here run about
dressed up in our happy pants... Jeff
I'd use a 40NLD2, the 60 will work fine.
Maybe or maybe not. A 237 pound bluefin tuna hit the dock today
Quote from: Keta on November 21, 2018, 12:38:06 AM
I'd use a 40NLD2, the 60 will work fine.
Lee, to be clear. The topic was not about whether or not any one would use the Fathom 40NLD2 or whether the 60 version will work. The opening poster made comments of wanting to use the Fathom 60NLD2 as a 80 - 100 lb. reel also making mention of the posted by Penn max drag numbers. The topic then carried over to whether or not the 40NLD2 will work for 80 line.
First I think it would be misleading to send any one out with either of these reels saying they would be fine fishing them with 100 line with appropriate drag. I dont believe any one here has done this. As stated in my first post in this thread I've been aware some of the boats have the 40N on their decks loaded with 80 line.
I would put forth that the average angler does not have the technique to properly fish 20 lbs. of drag for any extended length of time with out wearing on them a good bit. Based on this my question would be how often are these reels on the boats seeing use above 20 lbs. of drag.
I see the 40N as great real for 60. Until some one proves me wrong, while it works for some with 80 line. I will not suggest it for long term regular use using 80 line & appropriate drag . Again this based on what I saw & felt testing them after service. As always I could be wrong... Jeff
Quote from: SoCalAngler on November 21, 2018, 01:17:13 AM
Maybe or maybe not. A 237 pound bluefin tuna hit the dock today
SoCal, caught with what reel ?
Quote from: SoCalAngler on November 21, 2018, 01:17:13 AMMaybe or maybe not. A 237 pound bluefin tuna hit the dock today
Nice! I'd feel better using a 30 or 50 for that grade of fish.
Quote from: Rivverrat on November 21, 2018, 01:29:38 AM
] I see the 40N as great real for 60. Until some one proves me wrong, while it works for some with 80 line. I will not suggest it for long term regular use using 80 line & appropriate drag . Again this based on what I saw & felt testing them after service. As always I could be wrong... Jeff
I will assume that with 40# max drag the drag at strike will be around 30#. That is enough drag to fish 100#. I plan on using my
TORQUE TRQ40NLD2 as a 60-80 reel loaded with 80# spectra. I do not think it would be under gunned on the large average BFT they are catching NOW fishing the reel as a 80#. All 5 of my cows were landed with 28-35 pounds of drag, but on a SDS 50.
Lee, I agree with you if the max drag number posted by Penn was attainable. These numbers were not reachable in the Fathom reels I've had across my bench. Speaking with Penn some time ago they agreed with what I found.
Also while the Fathom & Torque line both use some of the same parts internally you will see a noticeable difference in performance between the two. This goes for both the star drag series & the 2 speeds. Possibly more so in the star drags. Though the 15 2 speed in both versions the difference isnt as big as in the others.
For instance you will never achieve a fishable 20 lb. level of drag from a Fathom 25N. This however can be expected & done easily with the same model Torque. Even easier to reach this level of drag in the smaller Torque star drags.
I really believe this difference in performance is found because of the stronger Torque frames.When comparing the side plates they appear close in thickness but they arent. The Torque frame has much better yield strength than the Fathoms because of it slightly thicker side plates & better material used in them & the frame.
I know I push my reels my Andros 12's for instance. All three have been fished @ 25 lbs. drag a lot. Not in any way reels for 80 line. I wouldnt use these reels for 80 except for how SoCal described. Which is how I fish my Andros 12's with 15 lbs. to start & increase as needed.
None of the prior stuff really matters as long as they bring in the fish & make some one happy. Sure is fun to talk about... Jeff
1.7 ounces difference in weigh, the Fathom is cast aluminum and the Torque is machined aluminum. The machined frame is most like stiffer.
I'll see what I can get for max drag out of my FTH25NLD2 in the morning, Penn says 33#. I set it for 15 to 20 pounds at strike and have never gone past that, it is my 40/50 pound reel and it's spooled with 60# JB hollow.
I have a FTH40NLD2 coming in for a pre use service and line spooling soon, When I get the line on it ( I recommended 80# JB solid) I'll compare it's max drag to my TRQ40NLD2, it will be spooled with 100# JB hollow unless I come up with some extra $ and go with 80# hollow.
Lee, I will be curious to see what you find... Jeff
The FA25N star drag got 20# but the star was as tight as I could get it. The 25NLD2 made it to 32# at full, not midnight, but it took too much effort to get it there. The 25NLD2 is a good 40/50 pound reel.
To clarify, when I said the Fathom 25N wouldn't make 20 lbs. I was meaning still be fishable with drag at this level.
My question to you would be while it does produce it. Would you fish the 25N at this setting? This was really the point I was attempting to make. I could have been more clear... Jeff
I'm really appreciating the feedback here! Thank you all!
I already have a Fathom 40ld 2 speed. I've been planning on using it as a 40-60 lb reel, with 65lb braid.
I've been looking to pickup a Fathom 25n star drag model as a 20-50 lb reel for casting jigs and small baits, based on the positive comments I've seen here on the boards.
The Fathom 60ld 2-speed idea was due to it's price point and hope that it would function as up to a 100lb reel, but if I have to step up to a Makaira or Accurate, I'll likely just rent a rig.
All of this is for a hoped-for bucket list trip this coming year, 8-day or longer trip out of San Diego. Something I've wanted to do for decades...
Since I am completely new at this, any further feedback is greatly appreciated!!
Quote from: Rivverrat on November 22, 2018, 12:03:17 AM
To clarify, when I said the Fathom 25N wouldn't make 20 lbs. I was meaning still be fishable with drag at this level.
My question to you would be while it does produce it. Would you fish the 25N at this setting? This was really the point I was attempting to make. I could have been more clear... Jeff
My 25N star drag can be reasonably fished at 18# of drag, it is a good 50# reel. I fish mine as a 40#. My 25NLD2 started having some resistance at the higher drag settings but it has a thrust washer so it was not as severe as my Avet JX. I would not hesitate to fish it as a 60# reel, 80# I'd say no.
Quote from: tristan on November 22, 2018, 12:56:14 AM
The Fathom 60ld 2-speed idea was due to it's price point and hope that it would function as up to a 100lb reel, but if I have to step up to a Makaira or Accurate, I'll likely just rent a rig.
In my opinion you should step up to a 30 class reel for 100. My Avet EX30 handles 100# well, the SDS 50 does it much better. Boat gear can be rough. I have a Avet EXW 4/0 that has been "fixed" as per Allan I might sell for a good price to help fund my October LR trip if you are interested.
Tristan, I've not fished for some of the fish that a lot of fellas here have available to them here on this site. I have a love of fishing reels & do work on reels of all sizes. What Lee is telling you regarding you being better off with a bigger reel is spot on. Every one that has spent time here has learned something at some point. No one came here knowing it all... Jeff
Lee, thanks for showing your results. Pretty much the same as what I've found. My Fathom 25N's will do a fishable 18 lbs. of drag. Although it's not as good as it is at 13 through 15 lbs. I like to have a cushion. with my gear... Jeff
Riverrat, I've never fished for some of the fish these guys on this site have - which is reason I'm picking their brains! lol
Regarding the 25n star drag, is 18lbs drag sufficient for the role of casting anchovies and surface/deep jigs? Or, should I be looking into something different?
Lee, PM'd you.
BTW, Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
Yes the 25N will do those things. But a lot depends on the size of the fish.
Also understand fishing a Fathom 25N at 18 lbs. of drag is fishing this reel maxed out.
Its always best to use a reel below it's max fishable rating.
Reels in this class will never fish well at their posted max numbers. I went through this when I first came here.
You want a reel that will comfortably fish the level you want with out pushing max ratings.
Reel will be smoother & give much longer trouble free service.
Once you get settled in to a specific type of fishing you like. Then you can begin to focus on specific reels for the line class.
I can help with what reels last & give great trouble free fishing. But I may not be as good directing to what ever reel for specific fish. There are others here that can... Jeff
I fish my 25n star as a 30 lb setup with 10 lbs of drag , yeah it can fish higher but with it's 6:1 gears it gets hard to crank the cranky thing :) above that. I mainly use this reel for yoyo iron on a 7' rod or for the surface iron on a 8' rod. The 6:1 gears are nice to have for the yoyo as you don't have to crank like a mad man to get a fast jig speed.
For me when I get to 40 lb line and higher I like reels with a lower gear speed or even better yet a 2 speed reel.
I use a Avet JX 2 speed for 40 but the Fathom 25NLD2 would work great here also and it could do 50 lb line if needed where as the Avet should not.
Here is a pic of a couple of YT I caught on my 25N star fishing the yoyo iron
As a side note for reference. Your of choice of reel should be able to comfortably fish a drag setting of a 3rd or 30 % of line rating being fished. This not set in stone. Different lines of the same rating do not all break at the same level. You will see fellas fish 40 line from 10 to 15 lbs. drag & 50 line from 15 - 18 lbs. of drag. Sometimes lower or higher than these numbers.
It is best when going for fish that will make long runs to go lower on your drag for the line fished... Jeff
Quote from: Rivverrat on November 22, 2018, 07:09:41 PM
As a side note for reference. Your of choice of reel should be able to comfortably fish a drag setting of a 3rd or 30 % of line rating being fished. This not set in stone. Different lines of the same rating do not all break at the same level. You will see fellas fish 40 line from 10 to 15 lbs. drag & 50 line from 15 - 18 lbs. of drag. Sometimes lower or higher than these numbers.
It is best when going for fish that will make long runs to go lower on your drag for the line fished... Jeff
With modern reels I like a reel that can do 50+% of the line's breaking strain. If you can't get there then IMO you're probably over-lining (making up a term here) the reel. There's places where this doesn't really apply, such as big game fishing with 30W+ sized reels and straight mono, but generally it seems to be a good rule of thumb.
Boon, I agree. I fish my 60 lines at the same drag level I used for 80 line not long ago. I find this works very well for the fish I'm after & all my terminal tackle seems to hold up well. With out my needing to upgrade to more costly hooks & other terminal gear.
My prior post was more focused on what should work best for some one new. With the least hassle... Jeff
Hi Tristan,
I bought a Fathom 60 for a trip I took on the New Lo An last September. I wanted to load it with 80 lb. Tuff Line Indicator to drop down flat fall jigs. Everyone was out of 80 so I had Melton Tackle put on 350 yards of 100lb. I put a 25 yard top shot of Seagur 80 lb FC using an FG knot. The Fathom 60 gave me 30 lbs. of drag at full and about 22 at strike. The attached picture is of the 90 lb. Bluefin I boated in about 30 minutes that Marcus (the captain of the New Lo An) put 3 gaffs in because it was "still really hot" when I got it close enough to stick. The last ten minutes of the fight were at full drag and the reel had no problems at all. This was my first time fishing for these medium sized Bluefin so I bought a cheap Okuma Cerdos CJ-C-601HA 6 foot rod rated for 65 to 150 lb. line. This rod was not up to the task and would flatten out or bend to the grip when I tried to lift the fish. If you plan on fishing 30 lbs of drag I would suggest practicing pulling against that much drag before your trip. I is way different than pulling 13 lbs on a 40 lb. outfit. It will also show you any weaknesses in your setup. I found out Palomar any Uni knots fail when tied on 80 lb plus line. The San Diego Jam knot is the way to go with heavy lines. I saw a lot of broken knots, pulled crimps, pulled hooks, and broken terminal tackle on this 1.5 day trip. Pulling on a 100 lb fish can be humbling. Use 80 lb line minimum for night fishing. Two guys fishing 50 lb. got bit the most but lost the most fish and hooked one probably over 200 lbs. they lost after 2 hours that they couldn't move towards the boat at all.