here's another old standard from penn. the squidders continue to remain popular among long distance surf casters. they also performs well for many inshore light tackle applications. a single screw also allows you to remove the side plate and easily clean the reel or change spools.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_001.jpg)
first, go to mysticparts.com for the schematics and parts lists. for this particular rebuild post, i will be working off the 145 schematic.
140L - https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn140L.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn140L.aspx)
140L-LH - https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn140L_LH.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn140L_LH.aspx)
145 - https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn145.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn145.aspx)
146 - https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn146.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn146.aspx)
what we're going to do with this reel is to hotrod it a little, with a jigmaster power handle (#24-56), a narrow frame and spool conversion kit https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/KIT140-146CK.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/KIT140-146CK.aspx), a new set of three #6-60 drag washers inside the main gear, a new #6-113 drag washer under the main gear, and a stainless steel gear sleeve that was made up custom for me. please note that this is not the same #98-60AT or #98-505AT stainless steel gear sleeve carried by mysticparts.com. this was a limited run made by pete kolekar at my request. there are only a few left.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_002.jpg)
one of the nice features of this reel and the jigmaster is the take apart thumb screw (key #40). turn the screw counterclockwise, lift this spring-loaded screw a little, then turn the entire left side plate counterclockwise and remove the right side plate assembly.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_003.jpg)
we're now down to three pieces, the frame assembly, spool and right side plate assembly.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_004.jpg)
we'll start by removing the left side plate screws (key #'s 32 and 39).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_005.jpg)
note that the post screws (key #39) are longer than the stand screws (key #32).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_006.jpg)
grease the screw holes of the new frame posts (key #37) and new stand (key #30) and install them.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_007.jpg)
remove the left side bearing (key #40).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_009.jpg)
pull out the bearing shield (no key #).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_010.jpg)
the old bearing is toast.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_011.jpg)
a new bearing is a 0.125 x 0.5 x 0.172 in stainless steel. it's going in degreased, lubed with corrosion x and left open.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_012.jpg)
grab that ratty old toothbrush and brush on a light coat of grease.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_013.jpg)
a little on the spool (key #29L) as well.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_014.jpg)
there. much nicer!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_015.jpg)
remove the right post (key #38) and stand (key #31) screws. note that they are also of different lengths.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_016.jpg)
grease the screw holes and re-install the right side ring (key #2).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_017.jpg)
throw the spool in and set them both aside.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_018.jpg)
now for the right side plate assembly. remove the handle lock screw (key #23a).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_019.jpg)
remove the handle screw (key #23).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_020.jpg)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_021.jpg)
remove the handle (key #24) and note the damage to the top of the soft brass gear sleeve (key #98).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_022.jpg)
remove the star (key #10).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_023.jpg)
remove the spacing sleeve (key #9).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_024.jpg)
back out the four bridge screws (key #'s 16 and 17).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_025.jpg)
the bridge assembly will drop straight out. note that the dog and dog spring came with it.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_026.jpg)
this dog is a little different from the others. it has a hole drilled into it and the spring rests inside making the installion much easier.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_027.jpg)
here's the bridge (key #3) with the main gear (key #5), drag washers (key #'s 4, 6 and 7) and tension spring.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_028.jpg)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_029.jpg)
to remove the brass gear sleeve (key #98), push (or punch) out the retaining pin.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_030.jpg)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_031.jpg)
install the new stainless steel gear sleeve and the retaining pin. sometimes the pin sticks out a little. just file it flat and the main gear should be able to slide over with no trouble.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_032.jpg)
the first washer that goes under the main gear is a #6-113. a generous coat of cal's drag grease works well here.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_034.jpg)
rebuild the gear stack with a generous coat of drag grease on all of the drag washers. don't worry about the excess. it will simply squeeze out the sides. note that we will also be discarding the tension spring (key #8). the extra thickness of the #6-113 drag washer underneath the main gear means that there is no room for the tension spring.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_035.jpg)
now for the right side plate bearing.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_036.jpg)
our handy dandy bearing pulling tool will remove the bearing cover.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_037.jpg)
it will also remove the bearing (key #26).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_038.jpg)
this bearing was rusted as well. this new bearing is also a 0.125 x 0.5 x 0.172.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_039.jpg)
let's line everything up.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_040.jpg)
first, install the bridge screws (key #'s 16 and 17). note that the screws that are threaded just at the tip go on top.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_041.jpg)
your left index and middle finger cover the bridge screws. the right side plate (key #1) is held between your left thumb and ring finger.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_042.jpg)
now you can flip the side plate over with no risk of having the screws fall out.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_043.jpg)
install the clutch springs (key #18).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_044.jpg)
install the pinion yoke (key #12) and pinion gear (key #13) as a unit.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_045.jpg)
install the eccentric jack (key #11).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_046.jpg)
install the bridge/main gear assembly, turned 90 degrees counterclockwise from it's final position.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_047.jpg)
install the dog (key #15) and dog spring (key #14) as a unit. lay it down over the bridge screw and note that the dog spring sticks out too far.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_048.jpg)
press down on the bridge assembly with your left thumb. use the blade of a small flat screwdriver to push the dog spring down into it's final position.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_049.jpg)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_050.jpg)
rotate the bridge assembly 90 degrees clockwise and push it down into it's final position.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_051.jpg)
with a right hand assist, flip the right side plate assembly over.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_052.jpg)
start each bridge screw half way, then cinch down each screw until they are snug.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_053.jpg)
verify that the freespool lever (key #21) works properly.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_054.jpg)
verify that the secondary freespool lever (key #21C) functions properly. this lever allow the handle to turn backwards by disengaging the dog.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_055.jpg)
install the spacing sleeve (key #9).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_056.jpg)
install the star (key #10).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_057.jpg)
install the upgraded handle (key #24). add a light coat of grease.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_058.jpg)
install the handle screw (key #23).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_059.jpg)
install the handle lock screw (key #23A).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_060.jpg)
press the right side plate assembly down into the right side ring (key #2) until it seats, turn the right side plate assembly clockwise until the take apart thumb screw (key #41) lines up with the threaded screw hole, and turn the thumb screw down until it seats.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_061.jpg)
congratulations! you're done!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/squidder_062.jpg)
now, for a couple of comments. honestly, there is no way that this upgrade was anywhere near worth the time and expense that was required. but this was never about money, was it. i know one thing for sure. the new owner was a very proud and happy man. personally, i much prefer the balance that the narrowed frame offers. i like my reels "boxed out," having a spool that is as wide as it is tall. with greased carbon fiber drag washers, this reel will deliver a maximum of 12-15 pounds of drag at the top of the spool. the stock brass gear sleeve will start to round off at drag settings in excess of 8 pounds. the stainless steel gear sleeve will easily hold up under 15 pounds of drag. that means that this stainless steel gear sleeve is a worthwhile upgrade ONLY if you are going to fish a 10 pound drag setting with, say, straight 30# mono. that works out well, because the gap between the spool and side plate rings can be so large that the reel will eat 25 pound mono or less. it will also obviously eat spectra. this is an important point. this is not a spectra ready, or spectra worthy, reel.
maintenance of this reel is very simple. the screw holes and drag washers will be good forever. it would be a simple matter to strip off all the line, take the reel apart, flush it out with a full blast of water from a hose, blow out the bearings with compressed air, lube the bearings with more corrosion x, reassemble the reel, spool it up with more 30# mono, reset the drag and set it aside for the next fishing trip. if the bearings foul, you now know how to replace them. other than a fresh water rinse and blow dry, only the bearings are at risk for failure. if you are distance casting, you know that bearing maintenance is critical.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Quote
Alan – having read some of the posts – wanted to throw in my experiences. I fish old reels and old Harnell rods – the Harnells match the color of my boat-what can I say. Use 65# Power pro on my narrow squiders, with the fine thread drag. Have greased them – either by you or me. On halibut – especially the larger ones at Bonita or the Bars, I have had great landing to hook up results. Use a long rod, and keep the drag light during the fight, and always gaff any obviously legal fish. Have also had some great long – 45 minute plus – fights with huge rays at Bonita, where the rod & drag wore them down – even when foul hooked on a wing or tail – more like fighting a Bull Redfish. I am surprised you note the squidders ore not spectra ready as I have never had any problems. My reels have mainly the plastic spools.
Also you noted somewhere recently you had not rebuilt any 1/0 Senators – you did two for me a couple of years ago, and they are great with the greased drags. Probably one of the most attractive old style reels.
Hope you are well – I have not been fishing enough.
Marc
marc, my memory is not what it used to be!
Hi all,
I've been having a ball rebuilding my old Penn Squidders using Alan's tutorial as a guide. I have made all of his suggested upgrades and even outfitted a couple with Tiburon frames and spools. Recently I purchased a No. 140 on Ebay and noticed that the right side plate is retained on the reel by a ring with stamped "dimples" and riveted hard points instead of the staked steel lugs I'm used to seeing. Seems to me that this change is inferior to the old method. Can anybody tell me when this manufacturing change occurred?? I would love to find out before buying any others built like that. Many thanks!
Mike Godward
yeah, i've seen those too. they seem to work ok, but i share your concern. alan
I wasn't sure if this is where my post should be but here we go. I just finished going through a older 140 with the chrome/steel spool. My question is on the spool itself. it appears to me that the spool is sitting to far into the handle side of the reel the clicker side is almost flush with the rim maybe a little to far to the right towards the handle side. The bearing cup is backed off 1/4 of a turn from its "Bottomed" out point to achieve a slight rock. The spool spins like a top and almost forever. I didnt grease the bearings just a drop or 2 of Speed X. I believe its a product of corrision x its reallly good. I just was wondering if there is possibly something I put in backwards after alot of looking there really doesnt appear to be anything i could have done backwards. I thought I should have a little more adjustment on the bearing cup. The handle side is solid and doesnt seem to adjust. Is this normal to have the spool seem offcenter?
having the spool centered is probably the best. a small shim washer in the bearing cup (underneath the bearing) should take care of that problem. the trick is to fine a washer that will touch the outside race but not touch the inside race.
Also, your clutch springs might be too soft. A new set might help.
I thank you both for your quick responses, I think I will take it apart again and try a set of springs from another reel or pull these out a little before cutting and grinding on a washer. I assume were talking about the two that sit in the side plate and push up on the yoke.
revised:
ok well cancel that, I grabbed the gear with my pliers and it doesnt pull up any further than it already is. Thesprings are tight and it has plenty of resistance I will possibly take a washer and make it to fit once I get home. Ill update with the details once I get home from this lovely place some call Work.
Correct! Pulling them out will help, but eventually you'll be right back to where you started. Test the spool by pulling the springs out, if it helps still get yourself a new set of springs.
Is that reel purple or is it just a camera or lighting thing?
Quote from: sculpin1 on September 16, 2011, 04:50:10 PM
Hi all,
I've been having a ball rebuilding my old Penn Squidders using Alan's tutorial as a guide. I have made all of his suggested upgrades and even outfitted a couple with Tiburon frames and spools. Recently I purchased a No. 140 on Ebay and noticed that the right side plate is retained on the reel by a ring with stamped "dimples" and riveted hard points instead of the staked steel lugs I'm used to seeing. Seems to me that this change is inferior to the old method. Can anybody tell me when this manufacturing change occurred?? I would love to find out before buying any others built like that. Many thanks!
Mike Godward
Hi Mike,
Ordered a new Right Side Plate recently for a 500 Jigmaster which is similar to your Squidder. It has been "Value Engineered" with three pressed location "dimples" around the circumference of the Inner Ring. New stock, made in China! ;)
Cheers,
IJ.
Just did a 140, now that its back together it does not look like the sleeve for the drags , is sticking up far enough. Is this normal?
the star should have an under cut, so it should still work.
Quote from: alantani on March 06, 2012, 05:10:20 PM
the star should have an under cut, so it should still work.
looks good can i put a longer sleeve in to get more out of drags ? in need of aluminum spool for the 140
Quote from: broschro on March 06, 2012, 07:18:55 PM
Quote from: alantani on March 06, 2012, 05:10:20 PM
the star should have an under cut, so it should still work.
looks good can i put a longer sleeve in to get more out of drags ? in need of aluminum spool for the 140
I have a chrome spool. Let me know if you want it ..... Free!
Quote from: Panama on March 07, 2012, 12:08:59 PM
Quote from: broschro on March 06, 2012, 07:18:55 PM
Quote from: alantani on March 06, 2012, 05:10:20 PM
the star should have an under cut, so it should still work.
looks good can i put a longer sleeve in to get more out of drags ? in need of aluminum spool for the 140
I have a chrome spool. Let me know if you want it ..... Free!
Awesome i sent you a pm with my location
I Recently went through a 140 and completed the typical service including greased carbontex drag washers. got it to free spool light years better but the drag is horrible. It tightens up quickly and feels almost as if something is bent by how jerky it is. Checked it a couple of times and seems together correctly. Thanks in advance, Brendan.
you mean like a spool binding up against the frame?
Brendan, when you replaced the fiber washers, did you replace the metal washers as well? If you have the older brass washers, see if they're bent. usually these reels don't give you much travel with the star, but definitely better than what you're explaning. If you're looking for more, you'll need to shave 1/16 off the sleeve, taking that everything else is ok. Make sure your star has the under cut.
On my reels I like the star to be a little larger, I go from the 10 -140 to the 10 - 49 .
Here is a shot:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/001-12.jpg)
The 10-140
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/003-17.jpg)
The 10-49
If you didn't want to grind the sleeve, you could get one here:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/9-60.aspx
I would go with the 9-60450.
Good luck!
Sal
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Yes, spool appears to have a light wobble, yes to new metal washers & star has recess on the back. I will give it another go later today. Thanks Alan & Sal for the insight. Nice Gold one too. Brendan.
I am going to be rehabbing an older 146 soon and am considering replacing the left side inner and outer rings (key 28 and 28a). After soaking them in vinegar they shine like new but have probably 20 to 25% of the chrome missing. Is it possible to keep them from getting worse (i.e. more chrome loss) with just regular and frequent maintenance or would it be better to simply replace them (trying to weigh the cost/benefit of starting from a clean slate or fighting the existing corrosion)? Would a wipe down with something like ReelX will be sufficient maintenance on the existing slightly corroded rings and keep them from getting worse or is it a losing battle? Also, when reassembling the reel and putting the rings back onto the side plate, is it okay/recommended to put a thin layer of grease or ReelX on the inside of the rings to help with corrosion prevention? Or is this detrimental in any way?
Thanks!!
get some new rings.... :-\
Okie dokie, that settles it. :) Thanks!!
What is the reason for using a 6-113 washer under the main gear instead of a 6-155 or 6-60? I looked at MysticParts and the 5-155 looked like the smallest o.d. This seemed like the least likely to interfere with the dog. Am I correct in guessing that any one of these washers choices under the gear wouldn't have a significant drag advantage over the others?
Excellent tutorial. Thanks..
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
I have used the 155 washer under the gear on smaller reels with no issues. In fact, I think it keeps any excess material from interfering with the dog and ratchet or anything else in there. Alan is God, so if it is what he recomends I'm certain he has his reasons.
Ron
Quote from: noyb72 on May 29, 2013, 06:36:28 PM
I have used the 155 washer under the gear on smaller reels with no issues. In fact, I think it keeps any excess material from interfering with the dog and ratchet or anything else in there. ......
Ron
Yup. The smallest friction surface is the top of the gear sleeve above the dog notches, so I use the smallest O.D. CF washer that will fit over the gear sleeve.
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 20, 2013, 03:51:28 AM
Make sure your star has the under cut.
On my reels I like the star to be a little larger, I go from the 10 -140 to the 10 - 49 .
Sal or anyone else,
I was looking at the 10-49LH star on Scotts, and they don't show the under cut. I asked them if it had it, and they said it would not fit the 140 gear sleeve. They said the threads were different. Does anyone know for sure if the 10-49LH will or will not fit a 140LH gear sleeve? If the right hand 10-49 star fits on the right hand 98-60 sleeve, why wouldn't it work for the left hand models?
Thanks.
Noby72 & Norcal.. Thank you, I was thinking the same thing, that's why I asked. Unless it has to do with the thickness of 6-113.
i wish that we could use the #6-155 drag washer under the main gear, because it's alot cheaper. i had pulled some of my early reels apart and found the #6-155 badly squished. that's why i switched to the thicker #6-113, but it created spacing problems because it was too thick. then smoothdrag came to the rescue with a better quality carbon fiber drag that had a tighter weave. it was as thin as the #6-155 but did not compress.
Good info. Thanks Alan. Is the washer the #5 Carbontex (same size as the 6-155)?
I need to place an order with Dawn anyway...... :-\
not sure which one it is. i just as dawn for the drag washer that goes under the jigmaster gear.
Hello
I am restoring a penn squidder I got on eBay. I'm a longtime fisherman but this is my first exposure to reel maintenance/repair. Alan, your tutorials are amazingly helpful.
This squidder is old with black side plates. Having trouble with the dig and spring. There Is only a post where the spring is supposed to go not a plastic casing like in the 145 demo.
Is the side plate broken or am I doing something wrong? I guess I don't fully understand what it does or where it goes.
The pinion does not have a collar on it. read somewhere that this is on older models. Any idea what year it might be from?
I will add photos from my phone in the next post. Thank you everyone for the forums. They are helping this newbie out.
-mac
trying to figure out how to add pictures. lets see if this works. i dont know how to shrink the photos.
(http://i.imgur.com/FfKugkR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Zrbm9yL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vjHcxEs.jpg)
the post is wierd. never seen one of those before. you could bend out one of the coils of the spring to wrap around the post. that would keep of from traveling. as for the pinion gear, it should be fine. this one is not going to be easy. :-\
I think this is an OLD reel that originally had a leaf spring and was retrofit with a spring at some point.
Ron
I've seen the post before on earlier models as you have, the coil spring rests against the post that's all there is to it. This was a good design, the newer Squidder's plastic posts usually snaps off, that is one of the reason I don't like Squidders.
I've fixed a few by drilling a hole and placing a metal post with epoxy as the older models. Easy fix and better than original.
Sal
thanks everyone.. i will try again to get it together either resting the spring against the post or wrapping it around the post.. i had it resting on the post but i was nervous it would not stay there. i haven't put it all back together to see if it worked that way or not.
the post looks like it might've been added because the hole that is is in says "grease" around it... like maybe it used to be an open spot to grease the inside of the reel without taking right side plate off???
either way i'll hopefully figure something out. and then move onto the newer squidder or the jigmaster i got on ebay also.
cheers and happy fathers day
Quote from: rednecktailg8er on June 16, 2013, 05:27:40 PM
the post looks like it might've been added because the hole that is is in says "grease" around it... like maybe it used to be an open spot to grease the inside of the reel without taking right side plate off???
No, that was the way it came. As I said above, I've seen it before. If you look closer, you'll notice that the post is a little flatter where the spring rests. From the way it's positioned it shouldn't slide off, but if you have concerns, get needle nose plier and bend the tip of the coiled spring and slide it over the post.
thanks alto mare! i will try them out
The hole in the anti-reverse dog seems large and maybe oblong compared to the screw that it's mounted on. But it might just be my imagination due to the size of the photo..
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 16, 2013, 02:42:15 PM
I've seen the post before on earlier models as you have, the coil spring rests against the post that's all there is to it. This was a good design, the newer Squidder's plastic posts usually snaps off, that is one of the reason I don't like Squidders.
I've fixed a few by drilling a hole and placing a metal post with epoxy as the older models. Easy fix and better than original.
Sal
That is a good idea, I have a Squidder in a box taken apart since my post is gone, bought mine from fleabay and of course the seller never mentioned it.
Do you have any pics of your mod?
Fishit, I don't have a picture of that reel. It is very easy to do, grind down where the post snapped off the best you can and drill a hole about 1/16". Make sure you mark the bit with tape, you don't want to drill through the plate. make yourself a post out of brass or stainless, you could even use a piece off a hanger, you'll then glue it in place with some epoxy.
Sal
Got another ebay squidder 140 up and running... red one this time... newer than my OLD one...
Got the reel working great, but exhausting with the regular handle while jigging striped bass on long island the last few weeks.
Any suggesting on power handle upgrade? want to get one on there before blackfishing in 2 weeks...
jigmaster power handle (#24-56) used in alan's demo expensive on ebay
(#24-55) they have on scott's b/t
ALSO any pointers on getting out stubborn bearings? i have one that i cant get out no matter what i try,soaking it, pick, flathead, plyers???
Mac
I PUT THE 24-12LT HANDLE FROM SCOTTS ON ALL MY SQUIDDER AND 100 CONVERSIONS .I HAVE SOME HANDLES ON MY FATHOM SERIES I DRILLED OUT AND USED ACCURATE ROUND KNOB HANDLES ON BUT I FIND THESE HANDLES FEEL VERY COLD ON OUR LONG ISLAND WATERS IN THE FALL /WINTER FISHING SEASON.
I know this thread is kind of old and I don't know who may be watching for new messages but.........Does anybody know if there is a pinion gear from another model that has another tooth or two on it that will fit and mesh in a 146 Squidder. The main is pretty much crammed into the side plate but there is enough room for a larger pinion. Has anybody done this. I saw another blog about swapping pinions on a 250, 1/0 reel to get like 3.1 or 3.25 to 1 ratio. I put a 500 Jigmaster pinion in a 146 Squidder and they are the same. I tried a 506HS and the pitch is all wrong. What does a 112 have?
I'm sure some one will chime in Hoyt. I'm just getting into the squidders, Surmasters ,Baymasters and Jigmasters. I don't know enough about them yet to answer your question. Did you get those Surfmaster drags I sent you?
Yes I did, and thank you very much. I owe you one, for sure.
Although I have just contacted Alan for a SS gear sleeve, I did re-assemble the Squid-machine and I must say, the 5 plate drag set-up is really noticeable on the smaller reel. It is smother and more linear in it's adjust-ability. Having huge drag numbers wasn't my intention with this little reel. I was after more control so it would break free seamlessly and stay hooked up even though the operator isn't very proficient.
I built this rod reel/reel for my older son. He is low on patience and high on excuses. Not the qualities necessary for enjoying the sport. He always wants to be with dad and younger brother but he winds up becoming frustrated and bums out the whole trip. As a dad I always want the best possible for my boys so I put together one of the most versatile rigs I could think of. Here's hoping.........
how old is he?
I made it sound like a kid, didn't I? He's 25. His younger brother is 23. Two more opposite human beings you'll never meet and I swear, they both came from the same mother! I do things specifically for the older one which is out of the comfort zone of the younger and visa-versa. The younger son will fish with me shoulder to shoulder all day long, the older one could care less but he likes being there. Weird
It seems weird to us but he is probably closer to being an average person than we are. The situation sounds very much like my dad, my older brother and I. If you read the book "The Five Love Languages" you'll see that quality time is high on his list even if anxiously waiting for a twitch on his line is not. Maybe you could try to find something that he likes to do while your fishing. For example my brother would drive the boat when we trolled. It was great as he would put all his attention into putting the boat right over where we got the last strike instead of being distracted watching his pole. If we were planning on jigging or working shorelines then he usually decided not to go. In the end, you might end up having to bite the bullet and do things that he likes to do to get in the quality time he obviously wants.
I have great relationships with both of my sons. The older one is left handed and let me tell you...they flat #### think different. I spent a lot of time and effort when he was young trying to figure what language his mind communicated with. I am familiar with the 5 languages of love and it was helpful to me so I could use my gear head thinking to identify and work through his human problem. A left handed male has a lot of conflict going on between left hemisphere thinking, right hemisphere thinking and testosterone thinking.
Public schools are not even close to being on the proper channel necessary to communicate with and educate a left handed male child. I worked hard and educated myself so I could guide my child through a system that labeled him and left him behind. Truly, what most people would consider a curse, is a blessing if they could only understand. We have our issues from time to time and now that he's an adult I just hold my tongue and he usually figures it out on his own. It seems to work out that way although it irritates the hell out of me, I just need to be patient.
I made him a pimped out Squidder on a Calstar rod that I wrapped for him so it would give him a little confidence. Although he doesn't know my reasoning at least his equipment is top notch and will help make up for his lack of instinct. Let's go fishing...........
Quote from: WOTHoyt on February 28, 2014, 02:53:19 AM
I know this thread is kind of old and I don't know who may be watching for new messages but.........Does anybody know if there is a pinion gear from another model that has another tooth or two on it that will fit and mesh in a 146 Squidder. The main is pretty much crammed into the side plate but there is enough room for a larger pinion. Has anybody done this. I saw another blog about swapping pinions on a 250, 1/0 reel to get like 3.1 or 3.25 to 1 ratio. I put a 500 Jigmaster pinion in a 146 Squidder and they are the same. I tried a 506HS and the pitch is all wrong. What does a 112 have?
Squidder comes from the factory with a 3.33:1 ratio. If you can still find them Pinion # 13-99 has an extra tooth and brings it down to 3:1...It was the same Pinion as a Penn 99, Penn 250 and Penn 259 and perhaps a 1/0 senator. The 13-140 pinion is the same pitch an # of teeth as a jigmaster 13-500, but without the countersink for the plain bearing.
Many years ago, at the top of this thread, Alan wrote, "rebuild the gear stack with a generous coat of drag grease on all of the drag washers. don't worry about the excess. it will simply squeeze out the sides."
I found in rebuilding a 501 and a 200 that generously greasing the HT-100 drag stacks with Cal's results in a significant loss of drag power, which I restored by wiping the carbon and metal washers clean of visible grease. Any thoughts? Thanks.
Mike
Quote from: mike1010 on November 10, 2014, 07:33:53 PM
Many years ago, at the top of this thread, Alan wrote, "rebuild the gear stack with a generous coat of drag grease on all of the drag washers. don't worry about the excess. it will simply squeeze out the sides."
I found in rebuilding a 501 and a 200 that generously greasing the HT-100 drag stacks with Cal's results in a significant loss of drag power, which I restored by wiping the carbon and metal washers clean of visible grease. Any thoughts? Thanks.
Mike
I have come across this rebuilding several reels for ppl. Just due to how much grease is between the cf and metal washer not allowing for as much friction. However, I'm with Alan on his statement because a well greased drag is unbeatable. If I notice i over greased a little I just lock the drag down to squeeze out the grease and do a couple runs with line on the reel and that always brings the drag numbers up and gives me piece of mind that all surfaces are still well greased.
Fishsticks, exercising the drag makes sense, thanks. I will play with that. But I was not suggesting to omit greasing the drag, just that it is something that can be overdone.
Mike
Hi Mike,
I apply grease to my drag washers with a little excess...not much, but whatever is left of the drags. Some drag washers will soak in a little more when the drag pressure is applied.
After assembling, I tie a loop in my line and pull the line in 3 foot increments while each time I tighten the drag until I get to "MY" desired number, then I do this 3 more times to make sure that my drag numbers are consistent.
This will usually spread out the grease well within the drag stack and push out the excess.
Hope this helps.
all of the excess will squeeze out. it will look a little messy when you take it apart again, but it works just fine.
I will try it. Thanks, Bryan.
Mike
Alan,
Is there a secret to removing the bearing cover on in the tension adjuster cup? I was able to get the bearing cover of the one on the right side plate but the cover on the cup is on tight. I noticed that theer are some helical ridges on the cover. Do you have to do a pull and turn at the same time?
Thanks,
i use the bearing puller like a crowbar and lift it up.
I'm cleaning up a squidder that I just picked up. I have always wondered if that ring on the side plate is removable? Does it come right off, do I remove the 3 little pins it has around. Or are they not removable at all.
the ring is riveted in place. made that mistake once! ;D
That's good I asked I was about to pry it out somehow. Thanks for the quick response.
very good question, saved you a side plate ;D.
Is there an existing demand for these? I bought mine because I used one a guy had on his boat when I was invited SF Bay halibut fishing. Then I never used them, lol. I really liked the 'back reeling' ability. I hooked a big one and had a blast playing with him.
I have mine still in the box. Never even tried putting line on 'em. Too many toys I guess.
I don't think they get the respect of say a well set up 501, eh?
two different applications...i have 4 or 5 Squidders and 2 built up 501's. the narrow jigmaster is great for just that....jigging and some lighter bottom fishing plus maybe trolling for Spanish Mackeral if youre in that latitude. The Squidder, while it has a back reel feature very applicable for flounder drifting, is first and foremost a durable surf caster: ball bearings, finned spool bell you can cast control with STP grease (i don't; i am old school and think that's cheating and may cut your distance when you should put in the time for educating the thumb). However, the Squidder is Slooooooww....3.3 : 1 if memory serves. I have about a dozen jigmasters all total set up for various things from casting to jigging to king mackerel trolling backup's, so it's a matter of personal preference and what you want to use it for.
should i remove that bearing cover with the stock bearings? they are just too annoying to install them and removing them.....
And when i go on freespool the lever#21 lifts up a little is this normal ???
exactly like this but on freespool im not sure if thats freespool on the picture
(http://berinsontackle.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/H2140-5.JPG)
No! That is certainly not normal. That has some bendage going where the shifter lever screws down to the eccentric. Take it off and tap it out on something level.
Looked through all of the fun upgrades here and decided to pick up a Surfmaster with Newell bars/reel seat that I could transfer to a Squidder 140 to convert it to a 145. So after reading this I thought I could swap it out. Now I'm feeling like a 5 year old that can't get a square peg in to a circle hole. I took the two side plates off, left the frame together, and swapped over the Squidder 140 left/right plates to the 145 frame. The 145 spool doesn't seem to want to go in, but I'm not sure what I'm missing. There is a huge gap and it's just kind of floating around in the frame like it isn't attached. The gap is a good 1/4 inch. I can attach a pic if it helps. Is there something obvious that I'm missing?
Edit: Few deep breaths and swapped everything back. The answer I think is simple, I was wrong with the info I had that the frame supports and spool could be swapped. The Squidder spool has a spacer type piece built in to it to handle the wider side plates. I just don't think the spools can be swapped even if the frame supports can be. I'll have to find a spool for a Squidder 145 to complete the conversion.
Yep squidder spool won't work there.
I am going to put a 1966 Squidder 140 back into service. It was used hard for a few years and was then left to rot in a damp shed for over four decades. Yes, I am ashamed.
(http://www.raingarden.us/140before1.jpg)
(http://www.raingarden.us/140before2.jpg)
(http://www.raingarden.us/140ring.jpg)
The inner left ring is broken, the dog is very worn, and it will need new bearings and drag washers. The spool has almost no chrome left but I'll keep it for now.
I ground a cut nail to make a tool for removing the splined cover holding the bearings in place. It rests on the lip of the bearing cup while you pry the splined cover up from the center.
(http://www.raingarden.us/140bearing.jpg)
The bearings have never been touched but are in surprisingly good shape compared to everything else.
http://www.raingarden.us/140oldbearing.mp4
Are new Penn bearings going to be made as well? Are generic stainless or ceramic bearings as good or better? I'm not sure what to buy.
Also, the spring mounted ball that closes the oil hole on the handle does not pop back up. Are there any tricks to fix these?
Thank you for any advice.
Wow, that reel will need some help for sure, but I have no doubts that it will fish again.
About the bearings, they might still be good, try soaking them is some good quality oil and see how that goes.
This is what I do, I soak them in these containers, it doesn't take much oil and they don't leak.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/DSC_0128.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/DSC_0128.jpg.html)
I get those free at home centers, those should be used for testing your water, but don't tell anyone ;D.
If you need to pull the shield on the bearing, do it gently. if you pull the wrong side, the side with the cage, you will need to put it back or you'll lose it. You would be ok if you happen to get the right side, you will know it if nothing pops out... as these did
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/DSC_0074%205.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/DSC_0074%205.jpg.html)
Put some oil on the handle oil port and try to move it around with a pin, sometimes it pops out. If it won't budge, don't worry about it, place a drop of oil at the base of the handle shaft and you're good to go.
Good luck with your project and show us pics as you move along.
Sal
Thank you very much for your help Alto Mare. I am soaking the bearings now. I was sure I would need new bearings because, when dry, one bearing spins better than the other and they make a racket. Out of curiosity I put the frame back together with only the bearings and spool in place. No drive or pinion. Two drops of TSI 321 on each bearing. Then gave the spool a spin....
http://www.raingarden.us/140spin.mp4
Darn, it spins pretty well. Twenty five seconds. Still makes a racket. Now I don't know what to think.
-steve
I'm following, Alan has my Squidder right sideplate now, I couldn't get the bearing out.... it was the loud racket from the plastic spool that I was getting that prompted me to change the bearing too.
Hello Sid. I'm pretty sure my bearing is grinding. You can hear it in the first video when the bearing was not even in the side plate.
The bearings were soaked in oil overnight and put back in the side plates to test the spin time again.
(http://www.raingarden.us/140oil.jpg)
Soaking made a big difference too.. This time when the spool was spun it ran for sixty-three seconds instead of twenty-five seconds as before. I'm not sure why it works, but it does. Thank you Sal.
http://www.raingarden.us/140spin63.mp4
I thought I understood why we should only use one drop of oil, but am now confused about that.
The spin time improvement is probably real because the technique for spinning it was pretty much the same in both tests. However, I do not think the spin time can be compared to spin time on another persons bench with a different reel and different technique. The initial speed is as important as the frictional forces slowing the speed. Things like the size of your fingers, the amount of traction your fingers get on the spool arbor, the amount of pressure applied, etc. will impact the initial speed. To convince myself, I tried using a short piece of line to help get the spool spinning faster initially; sort of like the pull cord on a lawn mower or a kids toy top. The spin time increased from 63 up to 101 seconds.
http://www.raingarden.us/140spin108.mp4
You can see in the video that the spool started off spinning so fast that there was some gyroscopic action going on as the whole reel moved itself on the table. We can think of ways to get the initial speed even higher, but there is no practical use and at some point we would start damaging the bearings.
The grinding noise is still there. The noise doesn't bother me except that I know it must represent friction and poorer performance.
Also, when the spool stops spinning it momentarily rotates backward a few degrees. You can see it in the video. All my reels (new and old) do this to some extent. This probably indicates that the spool is not perfectly balanced. The imbalance must impact performance but I do not know how much. Probably a tiny amount. I've never tried to balance a spool like you would balance a car tire. Maybe a dollop of epoxy paste could be stuck to the outside of the spool. Don't know if the imbalance would change when the reel is loaded with line.
-steve
Well, I ordered and received bearings, side plate ring, drag washers and dog. Spent more on parts than the reel will ever be worth. My Lord, what have I become?
Anyway, I oiled and installed the new bearings and gave it another test spin without the clutch or drive. The noise went away, but the spin time is almost exactly the same as before. Go figure.
I tried to put the new ring on the inner left side plate. I could push the ring into place and hold it there but as soon as I let go it would pop off. So, I held it down while screwing the side plate to the cross bars. With everything secure the ring would flex and separate from the side plate at the top of the reel between the cross bars. Either the ring is too small or the plastic side plate it too big. Sort of mysterious. Not wanting to start shaving down the plastic side plate to make it fit I just put the broken ring back on the reel.
Installed the carbontex drag washers. The star may be bottoming out on the side plate now but I won't be sure it is a problem until the stack settles in and I set the drag tension. The star has a cut-out but the ridge inside the cut-out may be worn down a bit. I think either a shim or thicker washer between the bridge and main gear or a slightly taller spacing sleeve might fix it.
I've been thinking that the handle looked too big for the reel and finally realized that the handles had been switched on the 140 and a 3/0. Don't remember when or why that seemed like a good idea.
(http://www.raingarden.us/snap/140handle.jpg)
I reloaded most of the old 40# nylon squidding line for backing but will make space for 150 yards of 30# PowerPro and a shock leader. Pictured is the 140 and its greenie sister reel. They shared a ten foot Harnell rod until housing and transporting ten foot rods became incompatible with the life style. Wish I had it back now. The Penn 710 fared much better through four decades of neglect. It was not put up wet and salty, and it was in a plastic bag for most of that time.
(http://www.raingarden.us/snap/140greenie.jpg)
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on December 23, 2015, 10:15:40 AM
Well, I ordered and received bearings, side plate ring, drag washers and dog. Spent more on parts than the reel will ever be worth. My Lord, what have I become?...
...I tried to put the new ring on the inner left side plate. I could push the ring into place and hold it there but as soon as I let go it would pop off. So, I held it down while screwing the side plate to the cross bars. With everything secure the ring would flex and separate from the side plate at the top of the reel between the cross bars. Either the ring is too small or the plastic side plate it too big. Sort of mysterious. Not wanting to start shaving down the plastic side plate to make it fit I just put the broken ring back on the reel...
What you've become can be explained by the words "Welcome to the Dark Side." ;D
The plates/ring situation is that your plates have swollen. Filing is the solution:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=667.0
Wow, what a relief Porthos !! I was afraid it was the Addled Side.
But thank you mostly for the link about shaving the side plate. I'm not set up to turn them but going after it with a fine mill bastard file should work. Since it is easy to do a test fit as you go along you can identify the high spots keep and everything round.
This reel was definitely kept in damp conditions but I'm surprised to learn that the plastic would swell. This would indicate that side plates of 1966 were still being made of bakelite. I'm no chemist but believe Bakelite swells with age while most more modern plastics tend to shrink. There is a reference to jigmaster side plates being made of Delrin in the early 1970's but Delrin and Celcon (same difference) became popular for precision molding beginning in the early 1960's. Anybody know when Penn switched from Bakelite to something else?
So anyway, my squidder drag works fine but I notice that the star does not have to be turned very far to go from no drag to full drag. Didn't measure precisely but think it is about 180 degrees. With the old drag washers the star would move about 360 degrees. Maybe it is because the carbon fiber is a harder material than the old leather washers. To be safe, it needs just a tad more clearance between the star and the side plate; perhaps a millimeter. I might try putting both the new carbon fiber and old leather washer between the bridge and main gear.
I tried casting it with an eleven foot ulua pole. The sweet spot for this rod is about six ounces of weight. I've become too decrepit to comfortably throw six ounces and was getting 75 measured yards. That's a bit more than the 3/0 that normally lives on the ulua pole, but the 3/0 is spooled with heavier line. The next step is to put together a three ounce rod for the squidder and 710 reels. A three ounce rod may actually cast as far, or farther, than the six ounce because I will be able to put my back into it without worrying about injury. At least that's the theory and the impetus for this project.
how does one actually take the silver inner frame off?
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk86/brew_master/IMG_1661_zpsvg2aymvk.jpg) (http://s278.photobucket.com/user/brew_master/media/IMG_1661_zpsvg2aymvk.jpg.html)
In the original post it shows the inner frame removed. I can't seem to figure it out. Any opinions?
I didn't know that delrin and celcon are the same stuff. I worked at a bearing shop back in the day and we made bearings from celcon, it was a white plastic that we machined bearing races from and used glass balls. Corrosion resistance was the thing as they were used in film processing equipment.
Quote from: Brewer on February 27, 2016, 04:16:23 AM
how does one actually take the silver inner frame off?
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk86/brew_master/IMG_1661_zpsvg2aymvk.jpg) (http://s278.photobucket.com/user/brew_master/media/IMG_1661_zpsvg2aymvk.jpg.html)
In the original post it shows the inner frame removed. I can't seem to figure it out. Any opinions?
There is a thumb screw on the outside of the handle plate --
Just unscrew it -- it is spring loaded, and will not come completely out --
After unscrewing, just pull the screw out slightly with your fingers -- and turn the maroon side plate backwards about 1/4" -- the plate comes right off the inner ring
Opposite technique to get it back on -- this is called a quick release for the purpose of changing out spools during fishing.
Be careful of those bakelite sideplates -- prone to breakage pretty easily during disassembly, if not careful.
Let us know if you were successful...
Best,
Fred
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/AED704E4-E9DD-4C39-A39E-C332BC8A4BE4_zpsmvctt7rx.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/AED704E4-E9DD-4C39-A39E-C332BC8A4BE4_zpsmvctt7rx.jpg.html)
You are correct Mark. I had to do more reading to find that Delrin is a homopolymer while Celcon is a copolymer (whatever than means).
The local hardware store has a nice assortment of white plastic washers that could be useful. They are thin, slick and more rigid than regular nylon. Wish there was some way to tell if they're made of Delrin or what.
-steve
Thanks guy!!!! ;D The Squider is completely reassembled.
I took that bugger apart for no reason about 10 years ago. Could figure it out :-\ Soi just put everything into a sandwich bag for a later date. the only minor issue I notice the Dog is not reliable. oh well.
What do you mean by that, does it miss at times?
Yea it skips. i'm quite certain the lil spring stayed seated.
Looks like you already knew what I was going to ask :). Try a new one, they get weak with time:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/14C-140.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/14C-140.aspx)
I would also get a new dog while you're at it, $4 well spent:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/15-140.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/15-140.aspx)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
yea you are probably right. good call. ;)
Sal is right, new spring and dog never hurt --
Many times though, it is just excess grease, or a little crud on the spring, dog, under gear washer, or bridge plate decking.
If cleaned completely and properly, with a drop of oil under the dog and pivot nub, and the spring slightly stretched -- and you still experience a lazy dog -- then the spring is the culprit.
If not, and it works crisply after service -- you are good to go.
Sometimes during reassembly, we will get too much drag or gear grease down there -- and that impedes the dog from operating properly -- especially with these tiny coil springs.
Best,
Fred
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/73BF7C52-4B94-43D5-9798-74F53FB06671_zpsxoudrqdt.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/73BF7C52-4B94-43D5-9798-74F53FB06671_zpsxoudrqdt.jpg.html)
Thanks so much for really informative instructions, and for readers comments too.Glad this site is still active.
i have been passed down a squidder 140 from a deceased friend, plus Penn 85's and 78's. I have been using comparable parts from these to replace too worn ones in the squidder, as not doing much sea fishing nor willing to spend a lot limits what I will do. I think I have removed the 'wobble' in the handle bearing as it rotates, but hopefully some slight movement in and out(should there be when not any pressure on discs, presumably no movement when pressure fully applied doesn't mean there is too much wear in the discs)at the moment a complete turn/cycle of the star wheel seems to engage these discs properly(but not to the point where the spool totally stops I believe should be ok).....I could I suppose always maybe add another of those discs or the spacing washer that is not concentric? to take up slack in and out?
I have proper reel oil plus Teflon reel grease but am amazed to read one of your readers gets a 65 second spin. At the moment the gears, bearings etc are all covered in a type of lithium grease I presume which has preserved all this. People have written references to STP additive-as a printer I use it-or Wynns oil additive - to mix with Alvania grease and this makes that "extend' , so it flows a lot more, longer chain molecules or something become formed.
Hopefully in Uk I could find some extra spools, otherwise it would be a waste of the quick change facility. Incidentally I also have been passed down 3 Intrepid seastreaks with similar quick change so am amalgamating into 1 good one so then also will have spare spools so it could be interesting comparing the two.The ingenuity of these reel engineers is quite amazing. I must find a www that explains the history of reel development design -any recommendations?
Though tempted to find a cheap magnetic fixed spool reel-eg xmas present- hopefully these reels will introduce me to using multipliers to see how I get on with them-nervous about backlash over runs etc but can always go back to big baitcasters.Does it sound as if I'm going the right way with repairs and learning? I will still set up an 85 and 78, but a Senator 6 also passed to me is far too big for me so might trade it in . Fixed spool beach casting on a windy day does tend to leave loads of line blowing in the wind just before casting and before tightening up, maybe multipliers are so bad at that.Cheers everyone.
I know this is an old thread and I'm glad it's available. I rebuilt an old black 140 I picked up for a few dollars. I couldn't figure out how the dog worked with that little hole and post. When in doubt I always come here. With the above help I was able to figure it out. I can't tell you how much I appreciate Alto and Alan and many others sharing their knowledge. If you're out there thank you.
Great thread !
Good thread - thank you.
Ordered a carbontex washer kit and a stainless gear sleeve from smoothdrag and upgraded my old 146L squidder this morning.
More for the learning than anything else as I rarely use this reel.
Hi....Working on making one good squidder 140 out of 2 old ones...anyway I ordered new ss bearings from Dawn this morning and have a question..In the tutorial it looks like when you replaced the bearings the bearing covers were not replaced??? also in the schematic from Scotts the tension spring shows going on top of the drag stack before the spacing spool?? Thought it usually goes between the star and the handle? Anyway newbie here trying to educate myself with your help of course...Many thanks for info
Jim from Wisconsin
Quote from: Noviceman on October 17, 2017, 03:54:30 PM
In the tutorial it looks like when you replaced the bearings the bearing covers were not replaced???
Jim, I read the same tutorials, and have seen Alan recommend leaving the bearings opened. This is my understanding:
- They are much easier to service that way. Maybe they don't have to be pulled to be lubed if they are open?
- If open, they can't trap water, since the seals are not truly water-tight.
thanks...I understand taking the shields off the bearings and leaving them open to oil etc but was wondering about the extra piece thats over the bearing that appears to be there to hold the bearing in? also still wondering about the location of the tension washer that shows onthe drag stack?
The tension washer goes under the spacing spool. The star is in direct contact with the spacing spool. There's not much room outside the plate for a tension washer.
thanks but still wondering about that extra washer tire looking piece that was over the original bearings and if it should be left out on replacing the bearings...hope Im explainingvthis correctly.. Saw a post by Keith on a different reel that if the washer was over the drag stack it was done by someone redoing the reel and not original...Just trying to clarify...thanks again
Hi, I'm new here and this is my first post. I've read this thread and the jigmaster rebuild thread. I just finished rebuilding my 36 year old squidder and am about to do the same to the jigmaster s of the same vintage.
@Noviceman... I would reinstall the retention washer as that's what holds the bearings against the bearing seat and in place. This is the washer with the "tire tread" edge I think you are talking about.
Now, I pulled out the reel spool tension side bearing, cleaned it as best as I could, it's shot, noisy as heck. Can anyone tell me where I can get the bearings for a 36 year old squidder 140 and a jigmaster S ? I like the idea of stainless open bearings, (easy to service).
Thanks in advance, and thank-you Alan Tani for hosting a wonderful resource!
Quote from: Noviceman on October 18, 2017, 10:08:56 PM
thanks but still wondering about that extra washer tire looking piece that was over the original bearings and if it should be left out on replacing the bearings...hope Im explainingvthis correctly.. Saw a post by Keith on a different reel that if the washer was over the drag stack it was done by someone redoing the reel and not original...Just trying to clarify...thanks again
That dohickey that secures the bearing in the bearing cup is not necessary, but I always replace mine. I believe Alan leaves it out so water can drain. I put mine in so the lubricant can say in the cup.
Quote from: 84-Bravo on October 19, 2017, 12:21:10 PM
Hi, I'm new here and this is my first post. I've read this thread and the jigmaster rebuild thread. I just finished rebuilding my 36 year old squidder and am about to do the same to the jigmaster s of the same vintage.
@Noviceman... I would reinstall the retention washer as that's what holds the bearings against the bearing seat and in place. This is the washer with the "tire tread" edge I think you are talking about.
Now, I pulled out the reel spool tension side bearing, cleaned it as best as I could, it's shot, noisy as heck. Can anyone tell me where I can get the bearings for a 36 year old squidder 140 and a jigmaster S ? I like the idea of stainless open bearings, (easy to service).
Thanks in advance, and thank-you Alan Tani for hosting a wonderful resource!
Bearings for the squidder may be obtain at MysticParts.com, SmoothDrag.com, or BocaBearings.com. I believe the bearing size is 0.125 x 0.5 x 0.156 inches.
Bearings for the Jigmaster 500S may be obtained at MysticParts.com. I don't believe these bearings are ball bearings, but more like bushings.
Thanks Bryan!
Hey guys
I'm working on a 140 squider that eats line on the handle side. Looks like the spool needs to move toward the handle is there a way to do this? shimming the left side would just move the bearing tensioner put right ?
This is not as easy. You may be as simple as cleaning the bearing cup on the right side to filing down the spool slightly the left side bearing is already adjustable.
First thing to do is what Bryan sez --
Remove the headplate bearing -- clean it out with lacquer thinner or lighter fluid.
When reinstalling it into the head side -- grease the outside of the bearing so it slips and seats properly in the plate cup -- not too hard, or the cup will break through however.
On the tailplate side -- clean that bearing likewise -- then grease the threads where it screws into the sideplate -- with the sideplate loose, and the bearing tension spring out, thread the bearing all of the way down. If necessary, use a pair of jaw tape covered pliers. This insures that when you are reassembling the reel -- there will be enough side play tension to move the spool towards the head plate.
Since this is a take-apart reel, over the years various spools may have been changed or switched out.
If all else fails, and there is still a gap on the head side -- the last resort would be filing the spool shaft a couple of mils.
But I would disassemble, clean, reset properly, and check everything else before doing that.
You also might try a spare spool if you have one available
Let us know how you get along.
Best,
Fred
Thanks will do... this is a awesome site with a amazing amount of knowledge happy to be here
I ended up filing a little off the shaft and it moved just enough. thanks
Awesome Sluggo !!! I'm glad it worked out for you.
I just replaced the right side plate on my Penn 140 Squidder. It's an older one with the maroon side plates. The new part 2-200 ring would let me turn the side plate so as the take apart screw would enter its assigned hole.
Penn claims the Bakelight side plate has warped or expanded due to age and that they have not changed the specifications on this ring. I fall to see if this is possible as the side plate is bound with a metal ring.
I had to sand the inside of the ring to get the plate (part 1-140) to fit.
Has anybody else had fitment problems with replacement Penn rings? Should I try to find a slightly larger inside
diamater ring ?
I have run into that same issue in the past George, but not often. Mine were the Surfmasters.
If I remember correctly, I think I drilled a small shallow hole at the very end of the slots where the pins slide. This allowed the plate ro rotate just a hair more, so the thumb screw would line up.
Sal
Quote from: George6308 on August 01, 2019, 06:18:59 AM
Penn claims the Bakelight side plate has warped or expanded due to age and that they have not changed the specifications on this ring. I fall to see if this is possible as the side plate is bound with a metal ring.
I had to sand the inside of the ring to get the plate (part 1-140) to fit.
Has anybody else had fitment problems with replacement Penn rings?
I know it sounds silly to think the side plate would swell with age...but they sure do. I've seen scores of split rings, mostly on the larger side plates.
Quote from: George6308 on August 01, 2019, 06:18:59 AM
Has anybody else had fitment problems with replacement Penn rings?
It happens a lot. I use a flat mill file to shave down the bakelite so the ring will fit.
-steve
I think removing material from the plate is a better option than removing it from the rings, As Steve said, a file...or an old screwdriver reshaped as a "scraper" will take it away, fairly quickly, just take care not to "slip" and mark the face area of the plate.
The Squidder Bakelite side plate has no contact with part 2-200 ring as it has a metal ring already mounted on the side plate. Two other 2-200 rings fit fine however they are retired due to cosmetic issues. This is leading me to believe the newer ring is smaller in diameter that the ones it replaced. For now the modified 2-200 ring will suffice however I will be trying other rings as it may be a part tolerance issue.
Thanks for the ideas Sqidders are still a useful reel.
Quote from: George6308 on August 02, 2019, 08:19:23 PM
The Squidder Bakelite side plate has no contact with part 2-200 ring as it has a metal ring already mounted on the side plate. Two other 2-200 rings fit fine however they are retired due to cosmetic issues. This is leading me to believe the newer ring is smaller in diameter that the ones it replaced. For now the modified 2-200 ring will suffice however I will be trying other rings as it may be a part tolerance issue.
Sheesh...
now I see what you mean George. The Squidder plate is bound in metal. If the two old rings fit then that spills the beans. The new one has to be a bit smaller. I suppose over all the years there has to be some fitment issues. I've had new Penn parts that had to be "tweaked" just a little to fit, it has to be expected I guess. It's a shame though, to have to sand the chrome off a brand new ring. :-\
Ring problem solved. Procured another ring (Penn part 2-200) from a different supplier and it fit perfectly. Thanks to Sal for it's handle and the 146's crossbars.
Nice selection, George. Now that's a sweet handle shape and coloring. Man, Sal, is making these reels complete with all these awesome knobs.
I'm a fan, keep it up Sal,
Dom
George, it must have been a while back, I've forgotten all about that knob.
Good job making that reel work!
Thanks Dom!
Sal
Quote from: George6308 on August 13, 2019, 02:46:25 PM
Ring problem solved. Procured another ring (Penn part 2-200) from a different supplier and it fit perfectly. Thanks to Sal for it's handle and the 146's crossbars.
OH MY LORD WHERE DID YOU GET THAT KNOB ON THAT SQUIDDER?!?!?!? (The black and orangish one)
Quote from: W1R3T4Penn on April 18, 2020, 08:54:28 PM
Quote from: George6308 on August 13, 2019, 02:46:25 PM
Ring problem solved. Procured another ring (Penn part 2-200) from a different supplier and it fit perfectly. Thanks to Sal for it's handle and the 146's crossbars.
OH MY LORD WHERE DID YOU GET THAT KNOB ON THAT SQUIDDER?!?!?!? (The black and orangish one)
The knob was made by me for George.
Unfortunately George left us last year due to health issues, he put up a good fight but couldn't overcome the many issues.
George was loaded with knowledge on Penn reels, I invited him to come over our site 4-5 years ago, we were lucky to have him here, he sure is missed.
Sal
Oh wow, I'm sorry for bringing that up!
It sure is beautiful though!
Quote from: W1R3T4Penn on April 18, 2020, 11:12:11 PM
Oh wow, I'm sorry for bringing that up!
It sure is beautiful though!
q
No, you actually did good.
It's good to talk about people that are no longer with us every once in a while.
Sal
Must have missed this post , Sals handle on that squidded is gorgeous . Is it made of polymer or wood ?
Acrylic acetate, very strong stuff!
Sal
Hey Everybody, I posted this on pierandsurf forums (https://www.pierandsurf.com/threads/penn-squidder-140-145-146-rebuild.47592/post-1236350), but it looks like this forum is more active, so I am re-posting here for more discussion and for general sharing.
I found a Squidder 146 with an aluminum spool for super cheap and picked it up. As a collector I have been on the lookout for one for awhile. Everyone speaks so highly of these little reels. The one I got is a little worn, but in great working condition. Bearings spin really nice. I got it with pretty worn out carbontex drag washers, which tested out at around 6 lb of smooth drag. That seemed a bit light, so I wanted to upgrade that. I found the Ultimate Upgrade drag washers by Bryan Young and put them in. Now it is pulling 12-15 lb of drag (tested with a suitcase scale). Nice. No other upgrades yet.....
I took it out to try casting it and fishing it. Casts great! Not even sure I need to mag it because it is easy to throw without backlash... I tied on a fish finder rig made with 50 lb fluoro, and put a live pin fish on, casted it out. Let it sit for less than 10 minutes, and guess what? It was taken by an 8+ foot bull shark. First catch was a stupid-huge bull shark! Not my target.... Oy.... I fought it for 15 minutes, but in doing so with this new high drag the anti-reverse dog failed... Oy.... The reel made a bit of a birds nest during the ordeal. I was fighting it and trying to undo the birds nest at the same time (walking backwards, maintaining tension), all while holding the handle because the anti-reverse dog wouldn't stop it from spinning backwards. I had the reel on a 12 foot heavy heaver, and this combo under this condition took all my strength to handle. No fighting harness or anything like that.... It wrecked my arms. And it would go 'pop' and slip out of my hands and spin backwards forcefully. I hurt my hands pretty bad. Got bruised up. My arm hurt for a week after. It was very hard to hold on with a mess of a reel and no anti-reverse. Of course, I lost the shark. Couldn't have gotten it up on the pier anyways.... Unlucky day. First fish I caught after spending money and time on upgrades wrecked this reel.
But what else failed on this occasion? The swivel on my fish finder rig broke. It wasn't the 50 lb leader, nor my knots, nor did the hook straighten out (like has happened before). But the swivel broke! This swivel was supposed to be good for 150lb, but not on this day.... Similarly, the main gear did not shear, nor did the gear sleeve--just the anti-reverse dog. Only one part mushed and failed. Kind of unexpected.
I wasn't sure what this reel would be capable of after the drag upgrades. I know the stainless steel gears are a popular choice to upgrade as well, but I have never heard of anyone needing a tougher anti-reverse dog as a result of this. I never wanted to target something so big and powerful. I would like to believe it could handle 4-5 foot blacktips, but again, I would target them with heavier tackle. Just nice to know I could if I needed to. I hookup with sharks as bycatch often, and the smaller ones are much more common.... But seriously, I am a bit shocked that no one else is talking about the "downstream effects" of these upgraded drag washers making the rest of the reel come apart under load. There is so much LORE on the internet over this reel, I feel surprised.
Anyone else experience anything like this with a Squidder before?
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Pretty much what to expect when you upgrade one part of the reel something else down stream will fail. Next step is to upgrade to a stainless gear sleeve and dog. You found the weak link in the chain. Great story though and nice first post.
Welcome
ABomb, welcome to the forum. One thing to note on the Squidder, is the small funny looking lever at the 7 o'clock when looking at the handle side. The small lever releases the dog and turns the reel into a knuckle buster. It is easy to flip the lever and not know it during the fight. Have you pulled the dog out yet? Im sure we would like to see the damage done. I have had badly worn dogs fail, but never had one in good shape fail.
Bill
Quote from: Bill B (Tarfu) on April 05, 2021, 07:21:02 PM
ABomb, welcome to the forum. One thing to note on the Squidder, is the small funny looking lever at the 7 o'clock when looking at the handle side. The small lever releases the dog and turns the reel into a knuckle buster. It is easy to flip the lever and not know it during the fight. Have you pulled the dog out yet? Im sure we would like to see the damage done. I have had badly worn dogs fail, but never had one in good shape fail.
Bill
Yeah, it wasn't that little lever.... After this incident I do wish the Squidder did not have that feature, but it wasn't me hitting it on this occasion. Not sure why you don't see the photos I posted. I see them on my screen. The photos I posted show the brass dog mushed and deformed. Before the incident it held strong. Afterwards it won't even hold a pound of force. It doesn't hold at all. It is a full time knuckle buster until I get a new dog in there.... I took it apart to look at it, and put it back together again while I wait for a replacement. When I take it apart again I will take more photos with a higher res camera (last ones were cell phone shots).
Quote from: Swami805 on April 05, 2021, 04:28:19 PM
Pretty much what to expect when you upgrade one part of the reel something else down stream will fail. Next step is to upgrade to a stainless gear sleeve and dog. You found the weak link in the chain. Great story though and nice first post.
Welcome
Thanks! :D
I ordered the Cortez aftermarket dog and spring. Although I am not sure how much stronger it could be... It's still brass... But I may have to upgrade the gear sleeve as well. I might just go ahead and order the stainless steel upgrades.
I have a Squidder 140 as well, also with the ultimate upgrade drag washers. I am just going to have to fish it carefully until I invest a little more time and money into these.
Welcome and that was exciting in both good and bad ways.
Yes, I do recommend upgrading the dogs to stainless steel if you have a chance, although I move not personally seem the dog fail yet. Mushroom yes but not fail.
Looking forward to seeing the photo of the dog when you get a chance.
Next Shark/big-one experience after you strengthen the AR system, could be frame torque. This could cause gear sherdding. What do you have for a frame? Posts are the weakest, double bars the next best, and a one piece aluminium frame is the is the strongest.
I can see the OP's pictures, that dog is toast!
Sorry, my work computer (don't tell my boss I'm surfing AT.com) doesn't show some pictures. That brass dog was bound to fail, it is as worn out as I have ever seen. A new brass dog will do you fine for the next couple years of fishing. Bill
Wow, them photos are huge. I couldn't see them on my phone but on my computer, it's clear. Looks like the gear sleeve also damaged the dog...may that thing got a work out over the years. I have never see a dog worn because of the gear sleeve to that extent ever.
Quote from: Bryan Young on April 06, 2021, 06:06:30 AM
Welcome and that was exciting in both good and bad ways.
Yes, I do recommend upgrading the dogs to stainless steel if you have a chance, although I move not personally seem the dog fail yet. Mushroom yes but not fail.
Looking forward to seeing the photo of the dog when you get a chance.
Thanks, Bryan! Where do I get a stainless steel dog?
I've found some threads here where people create a double-dog. If I could find parts, that seems like a relatively easy mod to try out. I don't have a full machine shop, but I can drill and cut some simple metal parts.
Quote from: Gfish on April 06, 2021, 07:30:41 AM
Next Shark/big-one experience after you strengthen the AR system, could be frame torque. This could cause gear sherdding. What do you have for a frame? Posts are the weakest, double bars the next best, and a one piece aluminium frame is the is the strongest.
I have posts on this one. Previously. I upgraded an old Senator 4/0 with double bars I found on ebay for a few dollars. It feels pretty solid now... If I could mill my own aluminum frame for the squidder 146 that would be fun. I might just break down and order a Tiburan frame though, but not until I find a good long term fix for everything else.
Quote from: Bill B (Tarfu) on April 07, 2021, 12:45:36 AM
Sorry, my work computer (don't tell my boss I'm surfing AT.com) doesn't show some pictures. That brass dog was bound to fail, it is as worn out as I have ever seen. A new brass dog will do you fine for the next couple years of fishing. Bill
Thanks. Good to know. It might just end up being this way for awhile. Hard to justify pouring more and more money into it if all I want to do is get out there and catch more small to medium size fish.
Maybe this info will help someone else keep a worn out squidder going longer....
When I got around to replacing the worn out dog from the post above, I got a better look at the gear sleeve. It was, in fact, worn heavily and unevenly just like the tip of the dog was (sorry, no pictures). Rather than order yet another brass sleeve, or spend a lot more on a stainless steel one, what I did was use a small metal file and reshape all the worn gear teeth. I flattened them back to perpendicular with respect to the dog, and it worked well. There was enough brass material leftover to clean up the teeth, and even make the notches slightly deeper (less than a millimeter deeper). It spins and the dog makes a satisfyingly clean click into each gear slot, and it holds damn well. I can pull heavy drag again.
Cool! Hopefully no more sharks'll grab your bait. Never had a swivel break but I think it'll happen someday cause I find corrosion(rough turning) alla time in mine. Some I toss, some I lube. Maybe try a fw soak after use?
Last Sat. a hard chargin big'un tried to tip my yak over sideways(rig in the rod holder, couldn't wedge it up outta there), but the drag worked great. When I finally got the rod up after he turned, he bit through the leader. Too fast for a shark, wahoo maybe? 0 for too many now, ha! Always learning by trial & error. Back to a wire leader...
Yeah, I hope I can keep the big fish and sharks on heavier tackle.
Yeah, my nice swivels with ball bearings I rinse and put a few drops of reel X into. But I am not meticulous about it. I would generally like to believe that a 150lb swivel is not the weak link when I have it all tied up with 50lb fluoro leader and 40lb mainline.
The other day I was out on a boat, throwing live mullet up into the mangroves hoping for a big snook, and another shark got it. This one must have been 6 feet. It did a half leap and splashed around and cut my leader pretty quick. The water couldn't have been much more than 2 feet deep. Caught me by surprise yet again. But this time I happened to have very heavy tackle... Only problem was the leader didn't stand a chance. The rest of the day I was kicking myself for not having a wire leader, (but then I likely wouldn't have gotten any snook). The trade offs...The sharks are everywhere here. It does influence decisions made when out t on the water...
Thanks for the tutorial, Alan.
Question: Just what the heck is the difference between the 145 and 146??? Is it a gearing issue?
Clearly the 140 is the widest of the bunch.
Sorry, spent the last few hours researching this and just haven't been able to find the answer....will clearly make a difference when upgrading parts...trying to find out which spools work etc.
Also, any leads on a SS dog for this lil' tank?
It's just the frame/spool width. The 146 is the narrow version and the 145 is an intermediate width while the 140 is the wide one. The 146/145/140 are equivalent to the Newell 220/229/235.
The middle or 145 has a spool measuring 2 1/8 in and the smallest the 146 has a 1 5/8 inch spool size.
Otherwise I think the guts are the same
Thanks guys!!! :D :D :D
If using braid, the 146 will have all the capacity you need. They cast really well but I need magnets. There is barely enough room under the tail plate to fit enough magnets to slow it down.
Beginner's questions, but I have an older 140 with sentimental value and would like to narrow it to a 146 size. Am I basically looking for the seat, 4 posts and spool? I'd rather leave it as is then use a new full frame. I've been trying to do some research, but can't figure out either an a) online source for them and/or b) what size Newell I should be trying to find to rip apart.
I've already done the drag washers and will look in to upgrading the guts to withstand stronger drag, but only if I can narrow it. It's just for fishing the local 1/2 days for bass and bonita etc.
One of the vendors on here sells bars and the spools. Pro challenger. For bars I believe another vendor Cortez conversions has them in stainless like the stock bars
For a base in penn parts it's the same for a 49,501 and 146
For Newell a base for a 220 or 322, bars aren't the same though need 146 squidder bars.
The spool is unique to the 146 squidder, doesn't matter who made it, doesn't work in any other model
If you're looking for used part check out Randy, vintage offshore tackle, he may have what you need
Lots of aftermarket parts for that reel, plenty of choices
Swami, thanks for the help again (here and BD).
Mystic Parts has some parts, namely the spacer bars (round) that also fit 180, 49, 149, 349, and prolly a -49 stand.
Ted (Maxed Out) MIGHT have a narrow aluminum 501 stand, which is Cadillac with Prochallenger aluminum spacer bars. One thing with PC spools- Ted has some blade / knob combos that match some of those colors so you can mix it up a bit.
John
Quote from: rednecktailg8er on June 16, 2013, 02:37:33 AMtrying to figure out how to add pictures. lets see if this works. i dont know how to shrink the photos.
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Does anybody know if a 200 surfmaster dog and flat dog spring will fit this style of plate? I have a reel missing the dog and spring and the coilspring type dog interferes with the posts. The only schematic I can find shows the coilspring type. Thanks..