Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Spinning Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Daiwa => Topic started by: mo65 on January 02, 2020, 10:04:34 PM

Title: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: mo65 on January 02, 2020, 10:04:34 PM
   I came across another one of these 8000 series reels in less than stellar condition, but it appeared to be complete. The seller wanted $20 but had "make an offer" in the listing, so I offered 10 bucks. Lo and behold...the next morning I had a notification to pay up! This ad from the period describes the features of the reel, and it certainly does sound like a fine reel.

                    (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49316794488_46f66f4c9e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i8XsQ9)

   Since once again my reel had no badge, I wasn't sure whether I had the 8600 or 8700, so I used this ad to check the weight. My reel weighed 18.75 oz., so it looks like I have the 8700.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49317503417_f72d110402_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i926z4)

   Well...here she is...so ugly she'd have to sneak up on water just to get a drink. :D  Not much sense in working on appearance, I'll just make this one fully functional and fish it.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49317503387_f6170db4f2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i926yx)

   The first look inside found things uglier than the outside. We'll need to scrape away some crud just to see what we even have here.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49317290756_3b5c76c421_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i911mu)

   Now that I can actually see parts...I notice the gearing is different than the little 8100 I posted a few weeks ago. The 8100 had brass drive and pinion gears, while this 8700 has a machined alloy drive and a chromed steel pinion.(the red arrow points to a magnet on the pinion) The green arrows indicate the drive shaft bearings, which were both stuck fast to their mountings. I'll have to assume the indifferent metals are the source of the trouble here. Past experience with these lighter build ball bearings tells me I have no need to stress them by twisting and pulling. These type bearings can be ripped apart if you aren't careful. I have a much easier way to clean these without disturbing them.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49317501892_e838962a36_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i9267L)

   Hold the parts over the sink and squirt the Paslode into the bearing from below it. This will force out the old lube and all the crud, and drip right off the bearing. Spin the bearing a few times and give it another blast. It is now clean and dry.

               (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49316794043_59d4cc3ce9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i8XsGt)

   Inside the rotor gives a pretty good indication this reel was fished in the surf. The bail was bogged down with beach as well, and had to be completely torn down and bathed.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49316793948_1b2d856727_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i8XsEQ)

   The handle...sheesh...what a wreck. Evidently at some time a truck had ran over the handle. Then a previous owner used channel locks and vice grips to "straighten" it. The knob shaft was trashed...all loose and busted up...so I put an aftermarket piece on. I polished the handle blade the best I could, but it wears the scars of idiocy. Patina from years of normal use is lovely, but vice grip damage sucks. :-\

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49316793833_d6d3b16d61_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i8XsCR)

   All the literature I've seen on these 8000s indicates they used teflon drags, yet this one had leather. The only teflon was the underspool washer. I cleaned up the drags and tested them...and could only get 3.5-4lbs. fully cranked down. Maybe it was the leathers, as they were thin and well burned. Also teflon is not the best choice in a large reel like this, as it tends to squish out at higher settings. I subbed in some hard fiber washers which easily hit 8 pounds of smooth pull, so I called it good, as that is about the range I'd want for this reel.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49317502757_d8a8d0a667_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i926nF)

   Here are all the cleaned parts, the new handle knob, and the new drags. If you zoom on the photo you can see where a bit of the chrome has chipped off the pinion.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49317773188_1e3e41690b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i93tLh)

    I buffed the raised letters and ring surrounding the missing badge. Call it lipstick on a pig...HA! ;D

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49317502472_f9121c3856_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i926hL)

   Kevin mentioned this bail ramp and trip worked very well on these 8000s, and I agree. This is how a bail should trip. I despise when the bail trip just about yanks the reel from your hands.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49317502252_90c2b0c47c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i926dY)

   After reassembling the reel I was very pleased with the feel...can't wait to get it wet! 8)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49317502112_7a9425175d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i926by)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49316792893_9347c02990_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i8XsmD)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49316792728_7b5a58fa75_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i8XsiN)
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: Ruffy on January 02, 2020, 11:36:23 PM
Thanks Mo, that's a solid reel! Definitely not a shelf queen but will do the job haulin' cats for you!

Cheers,
Andrew
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: xjchad on January 02, 2020, 11:45:35 PM
Nice job Mo!
That's definitely diamond in the rough and a great workhorse!
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: festus on January 03, 2020, 01:28:06 AM
That's undoubtedly a strong reel and would be perfect for bank fishing for big catfish.  Perfect for rocky shoreline where you don't want to take your looker reels.  Even bigger than my 8600 which would probably take on anything here in Tennessee.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: Chuck750ss on January 03, 2020, 01:41:40 AM
Rotor and spool larger on 8700 than the 8600. I picked up a beater a few years ago. Fortunately the gearbox was packed with grease so the internals were in excellent shape. Serves as one of my wife's catfishing reels. One drawback to these reels is that the bail doesn't flip back far enough to clear the line when casting. Not an issue for what I am using it for. Still considering modifying the bail to lock back a bit.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: The Fishing Hobby on January 03, 2020, 03:47:23 AM
That turned out nice considering how it arrived! That bail trip is really smooth. So is the 8100 which has no ramp but the larger ones are really easy to trip.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: mo65 on January 04, 2020, 03:49:56 AM
   Thanks fellas. I put 50lb. braid with a 30lb. 20ft. mono leader on the reel today. I clamped it on a 9 ft. rod and it chucked a 4oz. bank sinker great...60-70yds. just tossing it. 8)
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: mo65 on January 09, 2020, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: Chuck750ss on January 03, 2020, 01:41:40 AM
One drawback to these reels is that the bail doesn't flip back far enough to clear the line when casting. Not an issue for what I am using it for. Still considering modifying the bail to lock back a bit.

  I'm wondering if maybe your bail was tweaked at some point. I checked mine and it clears the line. The braid I used doesn't stack onto the spool perfectly...it tends to build up in the middle. This would be a disaster for distance casting, but no farther than I chuck a bait, it will work just fine. I corrected the line lay by hand while spooling up, so below my casting distance the line is level. I'm not removing enough line on a cast to make the center heavy line lay a problem.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: The Fishing Hobby on January 10, 2020, 12:08:34 PM
My bail doesn't interfere with the line while casting either.  Mine also doesn't stack line higher in the middle of the spool. That is an unusual problem to have. I've seen different reels stack high or low on a spool which is usually pretty easy to fix...not sure what you could do with heavy center line lay.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: mo65 on January 10, 2020, 05:38:02 PM
Quote from: The Fishing Hobby on January 10, 2020, 12:08:34 PM
My bail doesn't interfere with the line while casting either.  Mine also doesn't stack line higher in the middle of the spool. That is an unusual problem to have.

   It only stacks high in the center with braid Kevin...it spreads out normal with mono. I've actually had this problem with other classic reels designed for mono. As you can see from the last photo I posted, the line lay looks pretty good when you keep it corrected below the "casting length". That pic shows the line rewound after a cast...almost a straight line lay. I probably made the problem sound worse than it really is. 8)
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: mo65 on March 18, 2020, 06:30:41 PM
   I picked up another one of these 8700s a few days ago and quickly realized I only had one 8700...the one I started this thread with is an 8600! The spool is obviously larger on the 8700, as can be seen in the pic below. The real problem was the missing drag click parts...looks like all I had was that one tiny screw. I figured I could take a Penn dog spring and reshape it, solder it to a piece of flat brass stock, and drill a small hole for that tiny screw. Voila! Clicks like a champ...now back to the clean up. 8)
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: xjchad on March 18, 2020, 06:44:41 PM
Great ingenuity in that repair Mo!  Love it!
These are really cool reels!
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: Midway Tommy on March 18, 2020, 07:02:52 PM
Sometimes "a guy's just gotta do what a guy's gotta do".

Innovative and well done, Mike!
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: Brewcrafter on March 18, 2020, 08:11:42 PM
Nice work bringing those reels back to life!
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: festus on March 18, 2020, 10:24:21 PM
Simple fix for a part it might take years to find a replacement.  Good job, Michael. 

That 8700 must be a hoss.  Biggest I have is the 8600 and it's difficult to imagine an even bigger one.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: oc1 on March 18, 2020, 10:39:50 PM
You're a clever guy Mo.
-steve
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: mo65 on March 19, 2020, 12:37:59 AM
   Thanks for the compliments guys. And Chester, the rotor and the spool appear to be the only parts larger on the 8700. I made a few observations though while working on this thing, pertaining to the larger spool. First observation---it doesn't have a 3-stack drag like the 8600, it's sporting a "onesie"! Yep, a single teflon drag. Second observation---when the spool is at full outer extension the bail won't clear it when opening! At first I though maybe my bail was tweaked, but it would take a hell of a lot more than a tweak to eliminate this problem. I'm guessing it's just a quality control oversight. For me, it's not enough to really tarnish these killer reels, it's just one of those "it is what it is" moments.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: mo65 on March 20, 2020, 12:09:24 AM
   Getting back to the gearbox, I found this 8700 to be much cleaner than the 8600 I serviced. The photo below shows it held a few greases, but they were fresh and soft. The bearings slid out very easily. In the second pic you can see there are no markings on these bearings. They seem to be great quality though. The pinion isn't a plated steel item in this reel, but a stainless steel variety. The drive gear was the same alloy as the 8600, and had the same steel AR ratchet also. The last photo indicates that nice brass bushing that the spool shaft rides on. I'll tackle the rotor reassembly next. 8)
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: mo65 on March 20, 2020, 07:21:37 PM
   The rotor had to be completely torn down, as the bail was very gritty and slow. We've discussed before how the least bit of crud under the bail arms just destroys performance. After getting everything back together I decided to test that single friction washer drag set up. I was shocked at the results...and as I've said more than once around here...when it comes to drags there are no rules. The 3-stack drag(six washers total) produced about 10lbs. max power. Well, the "onesie" drag(3 washers total) also produced 10lbs. maximum! If you look at the bottom of the spools, you'll see the 3-stack spool has an odd look. It doesn't have much surface area contacting the under spool washer...maybe that explains why it doesn't make more power. Both systems operate much smoother with carbon fiber friction washers, but the more complex system offered no power advantage...at all! I've got a freakin' headache...carry on. 8)
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: Chuck750ss on March 31, 2020, 02:14:51 AM
Quote from: The Fishing Hobby on January 10, 2020, 12:08:34 PM
My bail doesn't interfere with the line while casting either.  Mine also doesn't stack line higher in the middle of the spool. That is an unusual problem to have. I've seen different reels stack high or low on a spool which is usually pretty easy to fix...not sure what you could do with heavy center line lay.
Kevin, 2 8700's, Penn 704 in middle for comparison. Notice that the 704 bail flips back further, completely clearing any line coming off the reel.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: Chuck750ss on March 31, 2020, 02:19:43 AM
Quote from: festus on March 18, 2020, 10:24:21 PM
Simple fix for a part it might take years to find a replacement.  Good job, Michael. 

That 8700 must be a hoss.  Biggest I have is the 8600 and it's difficult to imagine an even bigger one.
Same reel except 8700 has bigger rotor and spool. 8600 spool will work on 8700.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: mo65 on March 31, 2020, 01:43:43 PM
Quote from: Chuck750ss on March 31, 2020, 02:14:51 AM
[ Notice that the 704 bail flips back further, completely clearing any line coming off the reel.

   Thanks for posting that pic Chuck. I think it may have helped me crack this case. I looked at my reel and tried to imagine what would cause the bail to only open half way. Then I remembered that bottom bail arm will spin on the bail. I zoomed on your pic and there it was...they are on upside down! I turned mine over just to confirm, and sure as a day is long, the bail only opened half way. I took a pic of the correct side up and below it is the wrong side up. Note the bail position in the pics. 8)
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: Dominick on March 31, 2020, 02:16:12 PM
Yep!  Post a problem and one of our reel geniuses will figure it out.  Nice work Mo.  Dominick
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: Chuck750ss on March 31, 2020, 07:10:51 PM
Thanks. I own 2 8700's and a 8600. All are like that. BTW, all 3 were purchased like that. Should have had my thinking cap on. And I did not! Not a first for me though.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: mo65 on April 04, 2020, 07:11:10 PM
Quote from: Chuck750ss on March 31, 2020, 07:10:51 PM
Thanks.

   You are welcome. You mentioned earlier your wife used these reels...I bet she'll cast 'em like a bullet now! Glad I could help. 8)
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: Chuck750ss on April 07, 2020, 03:32:08 AM
Mo, these are excellent catfishing reels. Along with Shakespeare 2090/91.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: BCT7 on March 28, 2021, 05:26:40 PM
Quote from: mo65 on January 02, 2020, 10:04:34 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49316792728_7b5a58fa75_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i8XsiN)

I just received my 8700 in the mail. I have not had a chance to do anything but it spins freely and smoothly so that is good. May I ask where did you get the round knob for the handle?

Also, I just realize that the screw that attached the bail to the rotor, not sure what it is called, it is bent  :( I appreciate if anyone has advice where to look for a replacement screw.
Title: Re: The Daiwa 8700
Post by: The Fishing Hobby on May 04, 2021, 04:31:40 PM
I just had someone asking me on my video about the 8700 and if there were any actually sold in the USA. I'll send him here to check yours out, thanks for the post MO!!!