Reel Repair by Alan Tani

https://youtu.be/yYjyFUef7-s

here is a link to the schematics for the single speed tld 20 and 25 reels.....

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_20_ARB_v1_m56577569830570244.pdf

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_25_ARB_v1_m56577569830570245.pdf

and here are the reels.  except for the width of the spool, frame and spool shaft, the reels are identical.  these reels were shipped in from hawaii.  the freespool was very poor, but these reels were still in good enough shape to kill fish.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0984.JPG)

by now, you all know the drill.  pull the preprogram dial (key #9), the dial spring (key #82), the lever shaft body and "O" seal (key# 10 and 11), and the drag control lever (key #83).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0986.JPG)

remove the lever quadrant (key #192) and screws (key #19, 21 and 86).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0987.JPG)

remove the seven side plate bolts (key #24).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0988.JPG)

separate out the frame, spool and right side plate assemblies.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0989.JPG)

let's start with the frame first.  grease up the click spring (key #101) and click pawl (key #231).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0991.JPG)

these old wing nut clamps are great for gouging up the gelcoat of a boat.  let's get rid of them.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0992.JPG)

the graphite clamps are much better.  ok, that's it for the frame.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0993.JPG)

now for the spool.  once again, the cooling shield (key #89) was loose.  note the rubber gasket that seals up the drag chamber when the reel is in gear.  remember to keep this and all of the shimano graphite lever drag reels in gear when they will be exposed to water.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0994.JPG)

remove the drag plate assembly (key #196, 60, 91 and 31) and set it aside with the cooling shield.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0995.JPG)

now for the left side of the spool.  remove cross pin B (key #50).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0996.JPG)

remove the click gear (key #98) and screws (key #99).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0997.JPG)

pull the main shaft (key #173), keeping the bellevilles, thrust washers and bearings in order.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0998.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0999.JPG)

these bearing are gummed up, but not rusted.  with a small pen knife, pry out the shields and let's clean them out with carb cleaner and compressed air, then lube them with corrosion x.  by cleaning the bearings rather than replacing them, we'll save someone $40-50!

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1000.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1001.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1004.JPG)

now we're going to change the configuration of the bellevilles (pre-load springs).  the original orientation of the pre-load washer A (key #72) and the pre-load spring B's (key #96) is "|()()" and the thickness is 4.61 mm.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1002.JPG)

we're going to toss the flat washer and add a fifth pre-load spring B.  the new configuration will be "(()))" and the thickness is 4.52 mm.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1003.JPG)

back into the spool it goes.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1006.JPG)

grease the screw holes.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1007.JPG)

install the click gear (key #98), screws (key #99) and cross pin B (key #50).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1008.JPG)

now for the right side of the spool.  the replacement drag washer is the drag washer used in the two speed shimano tld 20/30 II, part #TT-0246.  the tabs were cut off with wire cutters.  then i found an impact socked that fit the center hole just perfectly.  i carefully held the drag washer against a grinder so that it would spin, and ground the drag washer down to the exact same size as the stock washer. don't worry about not having the same tabs as the stock washer.  the tabs are not needed.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1009.JPG)

apply a thin coat of shimano drag grease to the spool.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1010.JPG)

apply a thin coat of grease to both sides of the drag washer and press it into place.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1011.JPG)

rub off all the excess grease.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1012.JPG)

install the bearings (key #216) and pressure release spring (key #202).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1013.JPG)

you will notice a small amount of play in the drag plate assembly.  that play needs to be eliminated.  pop out the seal lock (key #31).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1014.JPG)

from left to right, you see the seal lock (key #31), the drag plate (key #91), pre-load spring A (key #60) and the pinion guard (key #196).  what i am holding is a stainless steel washer that my machine shop buddy punched out for me.  this replaces the 4 layers of masking tape that you saw in the tld 20/30 two speed upgrade post.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1016.JPG)

it there is ALOT of play in the drag plate assembly, install pre-load spring A in the "down" position to take up more play.  normally you can install pre-load spring "up" position.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1017.JPG)

install the drag plate assembly and cooling shield (key #89).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1018.JPG)

use the wrench (key #230) to tighten down the spooling shield.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1019.JPG)

install the spool assembly back into the frame.  install the pinion gear (key #168).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1020.JPG)

ok, we're done with the frame and spool.  now we're on to the right side plate.  first, we need to get to the right main side plate bearing (key #215).  a "coffee grinder" sensation when you turn the handle says this bearing is shot.  it is always the first one to go out.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1021.JPG)

remove the handle screw (key #75), the handle nut (key #76), the handle (key #208), gear shaft shield (key #78), gear shaft thrust washer (key #79) and the main gear (key #166).  the dog (key #26) will fall out.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1022.JPG)

the original bearing was totally rusted, so the shields were removed from a new bearing, and the bearing was packed with grease.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1023.JPG)

replace dog (key #26) and the main gear (key #166).  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1024.JPG)

these reels definitely need a handle upgrade.  tiburon makes a nice one.  http://www.tiburonengineering.com/html/t-bar_handles.html  reel colors makes one as well,  http://www.reelcolors.com/reelcolors_004.htm  this is the one that is made for me.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1025.JPG)

install the gear shaft thrust washer (key #79), the gear shaft shield (key #78), the new handle, the handle nut (key #76) and the handle nut screw (key #75).  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1026.JPG)

install the right side plate assembly and screws (key #24).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1027.JPG)

install the lever quadrant (key #192) and screws (key #21, 19 and 86).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1028.JPG)

just a side note for a common problem.  one of the screw holes for the lever quadrant was stripped out.  a small copper strip was cut to fit the hole.  after running the screw back in, the copper strip held the screw just fine.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1034.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1035.JPG)


install the drag control lever (key #83) and push it down into the "free" position.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1029.JPG)

align the lever shaft body (key #11) so that it "nests" with the drag control lever and drop it in.   add a small amount of grease, then the dial spring (key #82) and the pre-program dial (key #9).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1030.JPG)

check the freespool.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1031.JPG)

check the maximum drag at strike before losing free spool.  you should be able to get at least 20 pound.  this particular reel was able to get 26 pound of drag at strike before freespool was lost.  when backed off to 12 pound of drag at strike, the freespool time was 60 seconds.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1032.JPG)

you can clearly see the difference in size between the stock handle and the larger aftermarket handle.  

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1033.JPG)

just a side note.  the tld 20 has nearly the same line capacity as the penn senator 113HL.  the tld 25 is nearly the same as the penn senator 113HLW.  for the tld 20 and 25, this means lots of line capacity, and now plenty of drag.  the problem is the graphite frame.  i am not aware of a single case of frame failure with these single speed tld's.  i am certain that the tld 20/25 frame can easily handle 15 pounds of drag at strike with no risk of frame failure.  it may be able to handle up to 18 pounds of drag at strike.  please do not exceed 18 pounds.  

so what this boils down to is straight 40-50 pound mono on a tld 20 with a 30% drag setting, and straight 50-60 pound mono on a tld 25 and the same 30% drag setting.  you see that 18 pound of drag at strike is the heaviest setting that i would ever recommend.  i believe the 18 pound strike setting for either reel is safe because i am aware of no cases of frame failure.  if anyone out there knows differently, please let me know.  i have no problem adjusting these numbers down.

Originally written by ******** (12/8/2008  7:56 AM)

QuoteI just got (early from Santa) brand new TLD 25's - I am certain I want to upgrade the handles.  I don't think I want to upgrade the washer system yet.  These will be my offshore reels for targeting tuna - mahi - wahoo etc out of Ocean City.  What's the professional way to spool them?  Should I go good mono 30# or get into the 50# mono backing to 60# braid.  Honestly, what are your thoughts?  I'm on a budget and money is an object to me.

the handles are $37 each, plus probably $3 for shipping.  straight out of the box, these reels will deliver about #12 pounds at strike before losing freespool.  to bring the reels to their full potential, i will need you to crack them open and add a bellville washer to the left side of the spool and a shim washer to the drag pressure plate on the right side of the spool.  i will include those washers.  at that point, you can also service the bearings.  keep in mind that these four bearings are $12 each.  protect your investment and go through these bearings now.  it will save you money later.  

once all of that is done, you can go through and change out the drag washers at your leisure.  they are $19 each from either me or smoothdrag.com.  like i said, the single speed tld 20/25 is one of the most expensive reels to service because so much needs to be done.  

now, once the reels are serviced, you should be able to get up to 18#'s of drag at strike before losing freespool.  you can now load these reels with straight 30#, straight 40#, straight 50# or straight 60# mono, then set the strike drag to 30% of your line weight and you're all set.  for what you are describing, it sounds like straight 50# mono and a 12-15# drag setting would suit you well.  these reels are not worthy of spectra.  

QuoteThe question I have is on my TLD 15. Decided to leave the bellevilles/spacers alone for now (glad I did-fewer variables to troubleshoot my problem). Degreased and oiled the 2 spool and 1 drag plate bearings (they were open).  Changed the drag washer to greased Carbontex. The only other thing I did was some 1200 grit polishing on the inside of the pinion gear and the spool shaft where the pinion rides - saw that on a thread on Bloody Decks you were part of. The drag feels great and the freespool is up to 35-40 seconds with 10# strike setting. The issue is I noticed when checking freespool that tilting the reel 45* to the right (like a right-handed caster would) causes the spool to stop in seconds (even when it's hauling #### at the start).  Tilting to the left does nothing (might even help a little).  I've got a TLD 20 single-speed that's never been apart, and tilting it left or right during freespool has no effect on it. I've used your site and the drawing to check my reassembly 3 times. Have you ever heard of this?  Any suggestions? Should I be concerned?

yeah, this "tilting to the right and stopping" business is found in any reel with a bearing sleeve that is cut too long.  the "c-clip" on the spool shaft that sits next to the right spool bearing functions as a bearing sleeve and it is "too long."  to fix it, you either need to shim the bearing cup or remove the c-clip and cut a bearing sleeve to fit.  as for the pinion gear, don't bother polishing it.  it actually does not affect freespool.  alan

here's the link to the original post.....  http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/shimano/66620-maylasian-shimano-tld-20-single-speeds.html#post1290562

i received a box of reels from a local party boat captain several weeks ago. he tells me he bought 30 of these all at once. i don't know how old they are, but he says that are all acting up.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1891.JPG)

now, remember, these reels live on the backs several of party boats in northern california. one had a main gear shaft that had seized up so badly that you could not turn the handle. i was lucky this time. i left it in the ultrasonic cleaner overnight and the next morning was able to pound it out. the last time i tried this, i broke the side plate. and all the rest of the handles had no evidence of grease at all! what really concerned me was the right main side plate bearing. four out of five of these $15 shimano bearings were rusted tight. again, not a drop of grease to be found.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1895.JPG)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1894.JPG)

so check the bottoms of your reels, gentlemen!

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1893.JPG)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1892.JPG)

sorry about the bad news......

Quote from: sdfishkiller;640404Fakes? or Japan is using Malaysia like USA uses China? Either way=crap!

i only know about these 5 reels. i am concerned about this captain's remaining 25. if everyone chimes in and says "NO WAY," then we do not have a large scale problem. this post went up on 29 websites. i will know more later......

Quote from: AKSalmon;640407I see these problems on a huge majority of the TLDs and Charter Specials I see in my shop. Almost all of the Shimano pre-ARB pinion bearings need to be replaced; only occasionally do the spool bearings go bad. This is not a problem of just the Malaysia made reels. These problems crop up if the reels are not serviced annually and water gets inside. My guess is you'll find water stains on the drag washers too...

actually, bill, you can see the drag washers in the photo above. no water stains at all!

Quote from: AKSalmon;640409That's surprising, or at least different than the vast majority of the TLD20s and 25s I see in my shop. Up here people use tem for halibut with straight 80# spectra. The plastic frame means that the reel torques under the stress of a tight drag and a 100# fish. All sorts of problems crop up from the heavy stress: Very often the gears are shotand almost often the pinion bearing is bad. I'm not sure why the drag washer typically has water stains. It could be that charter captains keep their reels outside in rocket launchers all season long, but whatever the cause, it's very commom. When I replace the drag washer I use some Cal's Drag grease to smooth things out even on the canvas Shimano drags, but the new Carbontex drags are so much better (although also very expensive) that I no longer stock Shimano drag washers.

Quote from: Pacific Fisher;1290562I bought a used but like new, made in Malaysia, TLD 25, and thanks to Alan's post about no grease on the main bearings, I opened it up. Sure enough, no grease except for a small dab in one spot on the outside. Clearly whoever assembled the reel was going through the motions on greasing. I probably would too considering how much they were being paid.

I was lucky, the reel had hardly been used if at all, and the bearings had no rust.



I then ordered and installed the TLD 2 speed carbon drag washer and modified the washer stack per Alan's hot rodding instructions. A lot more drag capability for sure now.

I do not think that there is any other reason to worry about the Malaysian models if you take them apart and lube, as the parts are still the same.



Thanks once again Alan for the heads up.

Quote
Hi Alan,

I received everything on Friday and your check is in today's mail.  Thank you!

I serviced the reel on Saturday for fishing on Sunday.  The reason I started working on this reel in the first place was that it had no freespool unless I backed the preselect way off to the point there was almost no drag in strike position.  Unfortunately, after servicing following your tutorial, I seem to have the same problem.  It is perhaps slightly improved.  Some of the details below:

-   I removed the shield from all the shaft bearings and seemed to be in good condition – no rust and all spun freely.  Still, I cleaned all with carb cleaner and lubed with ReelX.  The right main side plate bearing was also in good shape but I cleaned the old grease out and lubed with blue grease.

-   I removed the flat washer and installed the 5 pre-load spring B's with the configuration "(()))"

-   I installed the shim washer, with the preload spring "A" in the down position, but there still was play so I took it back apart and installed the preload spring in the up position.  After the second installation, there was no play.

When I was done I had about 75 seconds free spool as long as the preprogram dial was backed off enough to get freespool.  However, when I adjusted the preprogram dial until I got 10 pounds drag at the strike position, I lost all freespool.  In order to regain freespool, I must back off the preselect a little less than a half turn, about 160 to 170 degrees.  I did not measure how much drag I had at strike with that preselect setting, but it was very little, perhaps a couple pounds at most.

So...what gives?  Did I do something wrong?  Is there something else I must do?

P.S.  The drag is sweet.  Smooth as butter.

i'm going to assume that the installation is correct and you have no broken belleville washers.  could the pressure plate be seriously cockeyed?  you trued it up with washer!  review the rebuild tutorial if you need to, but i'm guessing you did not make a mistake in the rebuild.  first thing.  set the drag to 15 pounds and pull on the line.  this will "seat" everything properly.  now back off on the lever and see if you get freespool.  didn't work, did it......

with the reel assembled, throw the lever back and forth and make sure the spool snaps left to right properly.  if not, the spool shaft could be getting stuck in that hole in the left side plate.  unlikely, but possible......

back the preset knob way off until the spool spins freely.  then turn the preset knob down until you can spin the spool and you loose freespool.  check the drag again.  only 10 pounds, huh?  ok, next......

nothing worked, right?  ok, call shimano at 877-577-0600 and order up a new lever.  yours might be worn.  keep me posted.  alan

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?p=2964165#post2964165

Quote from: Bait O' Eggs;2964165I have been pretty impressed with my Shimano TLD 25 reels. For $125/piece off ebay they have done their job. I know they are not the machined gold reels and will not hold up as well, but they are doing what I ask of them. Before they saw the salt the first time I stripped them down and packed all the bearings in grease, greased every screw and surface inside and out. Every winter I have stripped them down and regreased and cleaned them up. They have spent 4 years as being the work horse on the boat.

Last fall I ordered 6 carbon fiber drag washers for them and a pound of Cals drag grease. I finally got around to this winters make over on them. Each year the dry drag washers get a little darker with wear. I knew I could have flipped them over and probably got another 4 years from the same washers on the backside. But Alan Tani touts the greased carbon fiber and I wanted to give it a shot.

I found it interesting the wear patterns on the drag washers. 2 of the reels dont show much wear with the black marks, :shrug: two reels looked like they wore pretty even from inside to outside on the wear surface :throb: and two of them had a distinct wear spot making a circle from probably a high spot on the surfaces. :(



(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c175/baitoeggs/dragwashers.jpg)

After handling the carbon fiber drag washers I cant image ever wearing them out. They are way tougher than the factory ones in the pics. They feel pretty smooth with the grease on the drag, but I want to feel something pulling on the other end before I pass to much judgement.

For the first time I found evidence of some water inside a reel. :doh: One of the outer bearings the grease looked white and milky. I cleaned it up and repacked it. After looking closer I see one of the glue on stickers with the factory names fell off the side of the reel, opening up a hole where the spool shaft mounts allowing water around the shaft to the bearing. I packed it with grease and will keep an eye on that reel. With the bearing packed in grease it didnt do any visible damage.

In a few years I will show the carbon fiber drag washers after they each have a couple hundred fish under their belt.

Quote

Alan thanks so much for the washers I got them today.  If I owe you anymore money please let me know.  I have a question though.  I did the up grade on one of my reels today.  This reel is brand new and used only 5 times.  I followed you post to the T.  I am only getting 5 seconds of free spool when I checked.  I went though the reel 3 more time and I get the same results.  I used carb cleaner on the bearings to clean them and TSI-301 to lub them.  When I take the reel apart and take the cooling sheild  off and loosen the clicker gear I get unbelievable free spool.  Put the cooling sheild on tight and clicker gear on tight and maybe 20 second.  Put the reel back together and 5 second.  I hope I explained this ok.  Do you have any ideas of what to do.  Thanks.

any grease on the lip of the cooling shield?  is it draging there somehow?

QuoteI don't know what I did,but I tore the reel down again and was able to get 53 seconds of free spool and max drag was 28lbs. Thanks for all you help.

welcome to my world........ ;D

Quote from: troutman561 on August 26, 2010, 01:30:48 AM
Hi Alan, I am not sure if my message I sent earlier made it because I had nothing in my outbox so I am going to try again. I just pulled my 15 year old TLD 20 apart and greased everything and replaced the main drive shaft bearing. It free spools great and everything feels smooth. The problem I am having is when it is in free spool the preprogram dial is in towards the reel like it should be and all is well. When I engage the drag to strike, it pops out like it should but when I move it back into free spool the dial will not pop back towards the reel until I just slightly nudge it in a clockwise direction. At this point it goes back into free spool. I took it all apart and checked everything and all seems well.. Any ideas?  Thanks, Ryan 

check the left side plate.  often the graphite will swell and the spool shaft will not travel right to left as easily as it should.  see the hole for the spool shaft and cross pin?  yup, it's probably binding right there. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0991.JPG)

pull the spool shaft and cross pin out of the spool.  first, take the spool shaft alone and see how well it fits.  if it's too tight, go in with a round file and lightly file each side of the hole, then recheck it.  ok, it spool shaft slides easily now?  good.  let's check the cross pin. 

install the cross pin into the spool shaft and try sliding it in and out of the hole in the left side plate.  it's stuck as well?  no surprise.  get a small flat file and file down all four surfaces of the slot that the cross pin fits into.  again, do  this slowy.  too much and you'll need a new frame.  get this right and the reel should pop in and out of gear easily. um, if that is the problem.........   :-\

Two questions, I own a couple TLD 25's that are about 5 years old, they're in good shape and I service them regularly. 

1)They have the stock drag washers from Shimano, same as in your photo above.  Since they were dry when they came from the factory I have never greased them but a friend of mine insists that all drag washers should be greased.  What should I do?  Eventually I will upgrade to carbon fiber but they work fine the way they are so I'm not inclined to mess with it.

2) The bearings are fine but other than cleaning the outside of them with a little light oil I have not done anything to them.  I have never taken the bearing cover off to lube the inside as you describe above, should I do that now or leave it the way it is?  It looks like when you pry off the cover you damage the cover with the screw driver.  After you grease the inside of the bearing do you straighten out that cover and put it back on somehow or do you just discard the cover and leave the bearing open?     

keep your canvas drag washers absolutely dry and they will be fine.  someday they will stick, but hopefully not someday soon.  if you grease canvas, it will stick immediately.  sorry. 

to grease a bearing with a pressed in shield, you will need a bearing packer.  for spool bearings, keep them open and oiled for the best freespool.  once you "dig" out a shield, it will be damaged and cannot be re-installed. 

Alan, in your tutorial for the TLD20/25, you write "i carefully held the drag washer against a grinder so that it would spin, and ground the drag washer down to the exact same size as the stock washer. don't worry about not having the same tabs as the stock washer.  the tabs are not needed."

I have two TLD20s that you worked over, and they have carbon fiber drag washers with no tabs (I call them "ears"). From the slight score marks, it looks as though the drag washer is rotating against the spool. The carbon fiber washer  should drag against the drag disc, and be held steady against the reel spool. It looks to me as though the tabs should be needed. Comments?

tony, that could very well be the case if the drags were cut two small.  the spool cap should crunch down onto the outer edges of the drag washer and hold it in place.  i have the carbontex drag washers and can send them to you if you will send me a pm with your address again.  they are tabbed. 

Hi Allen - please help. I can't seem to open the link to the schematics for the TLD 20/25.  ??? My server gives an ERROR - 404 - NOT FOUND message.
Regards. Johan.

here it is.
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/techdocs/en/TLD20_v1_m56577569830498881.pdf
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/techdocs/en/TLD25_v1_m56577569830498887.pdf

Thanks George.S - really appreciate the help. Regards. Johan.

Hey everyone! I was fishing my TLD25 last weekend, and the handle stopped spinning. I took it apart and found out that the main gear and its shaft are stuck inside the side plate. I was able to hammer through most of the way, but am still not able to get it completely out. I am afraid to hit it too hard, because I don't want to bend or break anything. has anyone else had this problem or know a safe way for un-jamming the main gear? Thanks a lot. Please reply on this forum, or send me a message or emal.

G'day and welcome Cmart,
This isn't uncommon, though binding up quite as much as it has isn't usual.
Try using a little penetrating oil (or similar) down the spindle.
Then, if it's protruding far enough, grasp the main gear (wrapped in a cloth) and turn it back and forth.
Once you've got a bit of movement, add more oil (or 556 etc) and continue until it frees up - it's worked for me in the past.
Hitting the spindle too hard is likely to damage the thread, but - if it's still jammed tight - careful use of force maybe the only option. Just be sure to use a punch or the back of an old drill bit that's only slightly smaller than the diameter of the spindle sleeve. That'll minimise the likelihood of hitting the spindle at an angle.
Good luck, Justin

there are several products like this one.  http://www.loctitefreezeandrelease.com/  i've actually had a few successes.  really, though, it sounds like one more tap should do it!

Alan

Looking to overhaul my TLD20s, also making modifications as per your tutorial. Obviously can get additional bellville washers from Shimano UK but can the drag plate shim washers be sourced from Shimano or is this a part only available from yourself?

If only available from you, can you tell me the price for 4 x shims inc postage to UK?

Thanks in advance

what i can do is just drop four washers in a plain letter envelope and put three stamps on it.  they should fly right through.  please send a pm with your address.  alan

I just got one of the TLD 20's on my bench..

It seems to be working fine, just wanting to go through it,, and freshen up the bearings and drags,, and become familiar with it.

Just in time tutorial!!

Where would a tackle junky obtain one of those Shimano specific "spanner" wrenches??

G'day Greg,
I've got several - happy to pop one in the post tomorrow if you like.
Post from NZ will probably take a week or more though.
Over to you.
Cheers, Justin

Hi Justin,
Great offer..
If I can't find those closer,, may try and work a trade or something!!

Thank you,
Greg

If you need it, it's yours FOC...
Just to confirm, is this the one you're after?

(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_06_08_17_3_13_33_20356240.jpeg)

Yes,That's the one shown in the schematic..  ;)

Many Thanks, Justin

Great Tutorial, Alan !!!!  

Can anyone help me? With the upgrades to my TLD20 as per Alan's tutorial I can still only get @11Lb at strike & @18lb at full.

The factory belleville configuration of |()() on my reel measured 4.54mm against the stated 4.61mm in the tutorial. in the configuration (())) I've got 4.61mm against the 4.52mm in the tutorial.

Alan, the bellevilles you sent me are each around 1.16mm thick; the ones in my reel are 0.99mm and seem less 'cupped'.

No problem for me to get all new belleville washers but surely this should not affect the top drag achievable, just how progressive the drag is?? Am I right in thinking that flattened bellevilles should make the drag ramp  up quicker?

great tutorial, I am about to tear into my old TLD 25, but I do not have Key#230 for re-assembly. Is this critical? is there an alternative? Thanks!

The only thing you'll need it for is to unscrew & replace the cooling shield. This tends to be loose enough to undo by hand when you open a reel. To really tighten it down when re-assembling you need the proper tool. As previously noted, this part has a reverse thread.

ken, dawn from smoothdrag makes a wrench also.  take a look at that one.  the exact order doesn't really matter that much, as long as the result is the same! 

rob, 11 pounds is too little.  any possibility that you have spectra that is slipping on the spool?  can you try changing the order of the bellevilles?  you should get 18 pounds at strike before losing freespool.

i'm losing it.  i have the most recent shimano schematic and i do not see a key #230.  is that the wrench?

Quote from: Cmart104 on November 02, 2011, 01:38:47 PM
Hey everyone! I was fishing my TLD25 last weekend, and the handle stopped spinning.

any luck?

Quote...i have the most recent shimano schematic and i do not see a key #230.  is that the wrench?

Also known as #146 from the earlier post...
Cheers, Justin

thanks! 

Alan, got mono on the spool so no chance it's slipping. Any thoughts on why the bellevilles are so much thinner? I'm assuming its down to the cuping being flattened out. Am I right in thinking that this should not affect the drag, just how progressive it is?

the bellevilles will affect the drag range.  but one belleville will not knock the drag down to 11 pounds.  something else is going on.......

Hmm... think i'll strip it all down again & put it back together & see if I get the same result.

Quote from: alantani on January 17, 2012, 08:59:38 AM


i'm losing it.  i have the most recent shimano schematic and i do not see a key #230.  is that the wrench?

yes the 'C' wrench, I took the number 230 from your photo int he tutorial. I figure I might be able to make one, I'll post back if I can.

i've got some extras lying around, um, somewhere....   :-\  if anyone needs one, let me know and i will try to find them. 

Alan, they were in the bin with all the other misc. tools and wrenches all in one zip lock bag.

Very nice info !!!! I will have a couple to do soon.

Hi Alan,
carbontex washer, handle and the 2 other washers arrived today in Melbourne Australia!
Only took a week, went straight to work and everything worked well.
Can't wait to catch the first fish on it!

One question:
the washer which goes next to the pre-load spring A (key #60), should both of them have the same hole diameter?
the 1 which you sent me has the same outside diameter as the pre-load spring but a bigger inside hole diameter. it fits and it seems to
work, just curious!?

Thanks a lot, money is on the way!
cheers from down under

Steff

the belleville get's added to the stack to make a "(()))" configuration.  the large flat washer get's fitted into the pressure plate stack just so that it will stay put.  the hole is too large, but the next size down was too small.   :-\

Hi guys
I just started work on my first tld 25.
I have hit a snag already.
For some reason I can't get the programmed dial off the lever. Is there a special trick to this?
It just spins but doesn't come off. Did take some effort to get it moving in the first place
Cheers

did you take apart the right side plate with the spool attached?  If so, the shaft is spinning.  Just hold the shaft while you unscrew the preset knob and it will come right off. 

Lol
Don't you hate that feeling you get when you've been trying to do something so simple and get so frustrated for so long :)
Thanks very much for your help mate, much appreciated. I just hope I havent damaged the knob too much :(

The spinning shaft/know will not damage the reel at all.  The whole assembly floats on bearings.  Let us know how it turns out.

All sweet now. Unfortunately I chewed up the dial a fair bit with multigrips due to corrosion sealing the spring between the dial and the other element.
Going to be tricky to clean up

Hi Alan my tld 20 gets harder to wind the more drag I set can't seem to fix any ideas on how to fix

Sounds like the pinion bearing (the bearing mounted in the right side plate) is bad, and should be replaced with a greased packed new bearing.

yup, bad right main side plate bearing.....   :-\

thanks will give that a go

Hi i want to order the pre program dial on a TLD20 the number on the schematics i found are 0009 and 0050 ,this is the cross pin on the spool shaft, but those numbers dont match anny criteria on the sites i tried, it seems all shimano parts now beggin with BNT?  thoes anny one know how can i order them? thankyou.
Saludos.

If you call or email shimano, you can give them the original part number and for what reel it's for and they can do the cross reference.  It's very common for me when I'm ordering parts from Shimano.

shimano's phone number is 877-577-0600. 

thankyou.

I just serviced two 25's and I did the masking tape on the drag plate trick. Worked great, took out all of the slop.  I did it because...well...Alan said so.  But what exactly does taking out all of that play achieve? Will it make any difference with the amount of drag?

Taking the play out of the drag plate allows a slightly higher drag setting while still maintaining complete free spool even if the reel is tilted. Sleeving or shimming will also improve the max drag with complete freespool. Together they produce a well tuned reel with great free spool and drag over the stock versions.
Please do note that if you use a soft material to shim the drag plate that the shim material will compress over time when high drag settings are used. Alan and I prefer using thin metal shims to prevent this. It is also possible to reform the thick bellville behind the plate so there is no shim required ( this is what I do). To do this requires a hydraulic press and forms to allow one to make the belleville deeper.

Jim N.

Added the extra belleville and the drag pressure plate shim, per the tutorial.  Now, when shifting the lever from strike back to free, the spool does not always go back into freespool.  It is obviously catching on something.  Seems to be more of a problem at higher drag settings.  Any ideas on what I may have done wrong or what to check to fix the problem?  I already took it back apart and everything seems to be in proper order.

most commonly the spool shaft hangs up somewhere.  the common culprits are the left side plate, the spool bearings, and the cam. 

Thanks.  I'll check those areas next.  I'm assuming I need to make sure the spool shaft is oiled and the left side plate and cam areas are properly greased?

correct.  the bearings commonly rust.  the softer graphite side plate and the only slightly harder brass cam are easily deformed against th stainless steel. 

Interesting tutorial. I have a TLD20 and recently bought a Tyrnos 8. Both are Malaysian and both had basically no lubrication in them at all. Is this more common in the Shimano's from that country?

not sure we will ever know. 

Hello Alan. I just purchased 5 brand new TLD 25's. I have owned many and love them. I pulled them out of the box, put a small amount of line one them, 100 yards just for testing purposes, set the drag at 10 at strike, and got 37 seconds of free spool. I wanted to beef them up, so I purchased carbontex drag washers, Albec 5 bearings, and replacement handles. I had smooth drag degrease the bearings and lube them with ReelX instead of grease, I had heard free spool would be better that way, but would require more frequent maintenance. I applied a thin layer of Cal's to the drag washers, rebuilt two of the brand new reels with drag washers, bearings and handles. I did not reconfigure the bellevilles as smoothdrag said they have thickened the carbontex washers to account for that. Thought it went pretty well, but now I only have 17 seconds of free spool at 10 lbs.. Any ideas where I went wrong.

I am new to the site, and love and appreciate what you do !

even new bearings have to be opened up and cleaned out.  did you do that?

No, I did not. So I should pull and discard the shields, clean with carb cleaner, and lube right ? Should I oil or grease them ?

I have removed the shields from the new albec 5 bearings since your reply, and notice that some keeper or c rings came out with some (not all) of the shields. Is this a concern ?

Thanks again.

Quote from: Westii on May 13, 2012, 06:14:22 PM
Added the extra belleville and the drag pressure plate shim, per the tutorial.  Now, when shifting the lever from strike back to free, the spool does not always go back into freespool.  It is obviously catching on something.  Seems to be more of a problem at higher drag settings.  Any ideas on what I may have done wrong or what to check to fix the problem?  I already took it back apart and everything seems to be in proper order.

I took everything apart again, oiled and greased everything and still the same problem.  So, I then tried removing the extra belleville and replacing the flat washer that I swapped out for the belleville - problem solved.  The extra belleville is significantly thicker than the flat washer, so I'm guessing there wasn't enough space for the spool shaft to shift far enough to get all the way into freespool.

Quote from: Hubbard1 on May 25, 2012, 11:14:54 AM
No, I did not. So I should pull and discard the shields, clean with carb cleaner, and lube right ? Should I oil or grease them ?

I have removed the shields from the new albec 5 bearings since your reply, and notice that some keeper or c rings came out with some (not all) of the shields. Is this a concern ?

Thanks again.

carb or brake cleaner and reel x or tsi 301.  don't worry about the retaining rings.  they should stay put and never cause a problem. 

greetings! Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I own a Japanese made TLD 25 bought circa 1993. I would like to take it apart for a  much deserved service but I do not have the wrench for the heat cover (did i get that right?). I would also like to replace the bellevilles washer appreciate if you could send me a set of washers  pm me the cost to Auckland NZ. Once again thank you.

G'day and welcome SU,
I may have a set of TT40 belleville washers and a wrench - I'll have a look tonight.
Would save a lot in postage and hassle...
Also, you may be able to unscrew the cooling shield by hand - worth giving it a try (note that it's a reverse thread though).
If you run into any difficulties, let us know.
Good luck, Justin

Thanks Mate! javascript:void(0);

awesome, thanks to Justin I picked up the wrench and washers this morning  ;D will try to get it done tomorrow. My water mains decided to throw a fit today by bursting behind the wall and I had to call in the plumber ..... :o ::)

Hey Guys,

Awesome forum.  Truly. 

Ok so basically here's the deal, I want to completely strip down and service my 4 reels   (3 TLD 25's and 1 TLD 20)

Being new to servicing my own reels, I realize I have few to none of the "special tools" that you seasoned veterans have accumulated for reel repair.  The good news is that I think the only one I REALLY must have is that #230 wrench to do the cooler.  Everything else I can wing it, especially since I don't plan to do this more than every 1-2 years.   Alan recommend me to go to smoothdrags, which I happily did, but.....   

The other problem is that when I go to smoothdrags it's not very "easy" to know exactly what to order.   My intention is not to offend and please do not take offense....but the layout is kinda in the dark ages, I cant really understand clearly what I need or which washers i need.   I wish it was more "reel" specific instead of all these sizes of which i dont understand yelling at me :).    For instance, when i click on the "which washer is for me" link.... it's totally a dead link and it's like so hard to navigate to find all the things I need. (time for magento? I can only imagine it would make someones life so much easier there.)

so basically I am back to square one:  Can anyone tell me IN LIST FORM ( ie  1, 2, 3, 4)  exactly what i need to fully upgrade a TLD25 as per Alan's tutorial? I can follow the pics and instructions quite well (I am an engineer of sorts), but locating the parts in another story. 

In other words, can't i just get a ziplock bag of the parts?  I can't imagine you guys not being able to put a hundred of these together and not selling out in like 3 days, so many people have these TLD's.

It's funny, I am the ceo of a small corporation, but I can't even find a few parts for my reel :)  doh! 

lyt

all four reels are single speed, right?  and did you want new handles?  i've got a great handle for this reel that really improves it.  send a pm with your address and i will get a package out to you. 

Hey Alan,

Yes single speed

Yes I will gladly take 2 handles....

while your at it....do you have any upgrade for the Daiwa Sealine 900H?

BTW i just got off the phone with Shimano----got the wrench and drag grease on order.!!!  8 bucks shipped!!!!

LYT,

For the handles, the 6/0 handles are nice and perfect for this reel at $33.  5+1 drag upgrades are also available, inlcuding metal washers at $25.

I have a 900H in service now and will try to post pics this evening for all to enjoy with the new 6/0 handle.

Bryan

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to thank you all for making this a great experience....   

this board is very cool, one of the best i have been in.   Look forward to getting the parts and beginning my rookie attempt.    :)

Quote from: lyt on July 07, 2012, 12:30:03 AM
Hey Guys,

I just wanted to thank you all for making this a great experience....   

this board is very cool, one of the best i have been in.   Look forward to getting the parts and beginning my rookie attempt.    :)

yeah alan PM'd me and got me sorted i think....i hope he saw the 900 I requested!

Quote from: lyt on July 07, 2012, 03:14:46 AM

Quote from: lyt on July 07, 2012, 12:30:03 AM
Hey Guys,

I just wanted to thank you all for making this a great experience....   

this board is very cool, one of the best i have been in.   Look forward to getting the parts and beginning my rookie attempt.    :)

yeah alan PM'd me and got me sorted i think....i hope he saw the 900 I requested!

whoops   i just figured out that the quote is at the TOP of the post not the bottom....that last quote was supposed to be for Bryan!

Having issues with pics. Sorry.

Quote from: Bryan Young on July 07, 2012, 05:56:05 AM
Having issues with pics. Sorry.

Hey Bryan, love to see those pics.....

I found the best site ever for image hosting ....totally free and super easy....found it 3 days ago and i will never go back!

http://imgur.com/

Quote from: lyt on July 07, 2012, 12:30:03 AM
Hey Guys,

I just wanted to thank you all for making this a great experience....   

this board is very cool, one of the best i have been in.   Look forward to getting the parts and beginning my rookie attempt.    :)

i'm still trying to catch up.  i usually send out 4/0 grips.  would you like the 6/0 grip?  they actually are better. 

i dont need the handle for the daiwa....it has a HUGE crank handle already

but thanks!

Alan,

Wonder if you can shed some light on an issue with one of my TLD20s.

As I'm sure you know the cam is designed so the drag at full gives around 160% of the strike drag and this is the case with 3 of my reels. A fourth reel gives around 220% of the strike drag at full. All reels have carbontex drags and your belleville modifications. Any idea on what may be causing this difference?

At the higher drag ranges, small differences in the thickness of the cam can make big changes in the final drag.  You should be able to confirm this by switching cams.

Thanks, Alan - The right answer, as always.

After swapping the cams around eventually got all reels to produce around the same strike/full drag ratio.

I have a almost new TLD20.  The clicker stopped working except when the reel is in free spool.  As soon as you begin to advance the drag the clicker is no longer engaged.  I took the reel apart and everything "looks" right.  Cleaned, greased and reassembled it and still no clicker when the drag is engaged.

I searched this site and found a post on a Penn 80 where it was mentioned that engaging the drag might be lifting the clicker gear up and out of contact with the little pawl.  Since this is a stock reel is it likely there is something out of spec in the drag or bearing stack allowing the spool to move (lift towards the handle side) too much?

Thanks,  Tom
Cudjoe Key, FL

I think I found the problem.  After posting the "help" msg above I went back and took the reel apart again.  Looking closely at the clicker end of the spool I found that the pawl for the clicker has a approx 45 degree bevel worn in the pointy end.  It probably has just enough material to engage (for now) in free spool but as soon as the spool shifts when the drag is engaged I'll bet there is no contact.

I'll order a new pawl and might as well get a gear too since the assembly wore out pretty quickly. 

Tom

glad it worked out!

Just bought TLD 25 that has your upgrades, and would like to use 65# braid on it, but I've heard braid isn't  recommend for this reel.

Just wanted to know if this is in fact true?

I'm new to these types of reels, so pardon my ignorance.,.

Braid works fine on that reel. The only problem is that because it is a graphite (read: plastic) reel, pushing the drag past about 20# will crunch the pinion bearing, torque the frame, and cause all sorts of problems.

Ok, so it doesn't matter what line I use, just don't push it past 20#.

Guess I'll use braid in quantity then.
How about long runs at 18# of drag? Does it heat up the reel?

I don't know if heat is a problem; it really shouldn't be but the fish up here in Alaska don't run like a wahoo. But if it were me and I needed a reel to fish 18# of drag all day, I'd get something with a metal frame. My understanding is that the "25" in the name "TLD 25" meant that the reel was optimized for 25# line -- maybe for king mackerel or Atlantic sailfish.

Quote from: akfish on November 20, 2012, 03:49:07 PM
I don't know if heat is a problem; it really shouldn't be but the fish up here in Alaska don't run like a wahoo. But if it were me and I needed a reel to fish 18# of drag all day, I'd get something with a metal frame. My understanding is that the "25" in the name "TLD 25" meant that the reel was optimized for 25# line -- maybe for king mackerel or Atlantic sailfish.

Well, I've bought the reel already, so I'll just work with it.

Thanks for the advice, when I get more proficient with conventional reels then I will upgrade ...

Hi, Folks.... if there is a thread showing the TLD0215, or the TT00573 pinion bearing size, for the TLD20, I missed it, can't find it.

I measured 9 x 18 x 5. A fast spin around the Boca and VXB sites reveals no ball bearing of that dimension
showing. This can mean there is indeed exclusivity with Shimano that size, or I measured wrong.

Whereas the audience here is made up of mostly USA folks, to them it's no big deal to spend 15.00 and postage
for the bb. However, with the CAD at par with the USD, a bb landed here is about 26.00, (nearly double) because of freight, tax, and starting price.

May as well try for a lesser cost generic.  Thx,,, KD.

i have 8x19x6 written down for the right main side plate bearing, and i have that bearing.  it's $11.  shipping to canada should be $3.  ken, double check those measurements.  and let me know if you want me to ship you a bearing. 

Thanks, Alan.... I will re-measure, cheers, KD.

Question Alan - have just done a basic service on my TLD-25, thanks to this tutorial and all went pretty well..  (first OH reel I have ever opened!), Couple of things I noticed - the "bent" Pre-load springs (look like washers) that you mention in the tutorial - weren't actually bent? they were all straight - so left them as is....
Also - I used Inox Grease on ALL the bearings (since unlike yours in the tutorial) they were not shielded?  Factory fitted like this so not sure why the difference?  Anyway I thought by loading up the bearings with grease (including spool bearings) it acts a bit like a water seal to the open bearing...I now notice you say DON'T Grease the Spool Bearings...will it be a problem if these 2 or 3 spool Bearings are greased? 

thanks!

MM

you will be fine if you pack the spool bearings with grease.  the bearings last longer but will not spin well.  not a problem for trolling.

Awesome news, thanks for the quick reply Alan!

Quote from: alantani on December 07, 2008, 05:11:22 PM
here is a link to the schematics for the single speed tld 20 and 25 reels.....

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_20_ARB_v1_m56577569830570244.pdf

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_25_ARB_v1_m56577569830570245.pdf

Hi, I am impressed by the tutorial, and look forward to servicing my just purchased secondhand TLD25.  I cannot get the links for the schematics to download, is there an alternative available by any chance?

Cheers from South Oz.

here you go!  http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/customer_service0/Reel_Schematics.html

Bula Alan & Gang,
I have what I suspect may be a dumb question, but I'll ask because I've seen this numerous times on these reels:

In order for the TLD reel to operate properly, is it necessary for the pinion gear (key 168) to slide in and out of the pinion guard (key 196),
as if to "disengage"?   ???  Or are they only two pieces which function as one because it's cheaper to manufacture that way?

Here's the schematic link if you want to check

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_25_ARB_v1_m56577569830570245.pdf (http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_25_ARB_v1_m56577569830570245.pdf)

Reason I ask, is some TLD's in need of quick turnaround have the pinion gear seized in the collar and I can't get pull them apart.
( parts are in the freezer as we speak  ;) )

The reels are already cleaned up, fresh Smooothdrag bearing sets & Carbontex installed, and await the outcome of the pinion surgery...
If I can't free them up this go around, I was gonna just slap em back in and call er done.
What do you reckon?
mucha vinaka,
Erik

if you have the pinion gear and bearing out, then just tap out the pinion gear and get a new bearing. 

My probelm is, there is a bearing that wont come out of the pinion guard (key #196) and the guard is corroded very bad, but trying to clean it up, I might need to order a new pinion guard but can't find them anywhere. Does anyone have one/know site to order?

Yes -- I tried pulling the bearing out with my bearing puller  ;D and soaked it wd40/water,soap/corriosion x still nothing!

the bearing will probably have to be replaced because it's rusted, right?  if the pinion gear and guard are stuck together, it will not affect the function of the reel, so leave it.  it will likely not come apart without damage to either one.  getting new parts from shimano is the only other way.  i checked and i do not have them. 

Hey Alan,

No the bearing isnt rusted, and the pinion is free. Its the bearing that is stuck in the pinion guard, not the pinion itself. Any ideas?

oh, THAT bearing.  leave it.  it will be fine.  i've been able to pound them out, but it is not absolutely necessary. 

Ok, thanks. I just wanted to clean it correctly... Hopefully it doesnt go bad or else Im stuck, ha!

Quote from: alantani on March 06, 2013, 06:00:19 PM
the bearing will probably have to be replaced because it's rusted, right?  if the pinion gear and guard are stuck together, it will not affect the function of the reel, so leave it.  it will likely not come apart without damage to either one.  getting new parts from shimano is the only other way.  i checked and i do not have them. 

Thanks Alan, you've answered my question. Pinion and guard stuck together, bearings were rusted and have been replaced..
..sweeet , i get to leave it and call it good. Thanks again & hope all is well at the "garage" !

Ended up ordering the pinion guard from Shimano (its pretty bad and peices are chipped off from cleanin). Not to bad, only $9... But my problem is, I need a bearing now, unless I can get the old bearing out!!  Any advice on getting this darn bearing outta the old pinion guard with out damaging it? If I can't get it, what size bearing should I order? There are 4 bearings total in this reel and 3 are all the same and 1 big one, correct? Thanks!

Is this the right size bearing to order for the bearing that is stuck in my pinion guard?

http://www.bocabearings.com/productdetail.aspx?ItemID=2348&MODSYSID=0&ProductSubGroupID=0

Hi Alan,
I've been lurking here a while, but this is my first post.  This is a great tutorial, but unless I missed it somewhere, when you talk about the extra washer you add between the drag plate and pre-load spring A, there are no dimensions listed.  I figure a washer or shim 1 3/16" OD x 5/8"ID x .020 thick would be about right, yes/no?  I realize that thickness is the critical issue.  Are they available?  I have checked McMaster-Carr, but they have nothing of the sort.  I can always do the masking tape thing.

Thanks,
bob   

i have one that fits, but not well.  i can ship one out it you wish,  the masking tape works well enough. 

Alan,
No need for the washer, thanks for the offer. 

Now on to another issue...

I was fishing in La Paz a couple of weeks ago and started to have the following problem...When I would put the lever into the freespool position, the spool would not click back to the left.  A slight clockwise turn on the Pre-program dial and the spool went back into place.  I have completely torn the reel apart, did the upgrade and yet it still does it.  I then bored out the hole in the side plate to better accommodate the end of the spool shaft, but still have the same problem.  I then wondered if the shaft could be bent, so I put it in a drill motor and found that it appears to be bent or out of round.  See the video here..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq455ctTA_c&feature=youtu.be.

Am I screwed or what?

Thanks for letting me gripe,
bob

Looks like you need a new shaft unless you can straighten it. It sounds like your bearing is getting stuck and does not slide freely on the shaft.

did you try rotating the spool shaft by 180 degrees to see if it works that way? 

I have an issue with my TLD25's 1 speed.  These reels have been stripped every year for 7 years and regreased.  I do not have a single problem with bearings and such.  I see on your page 1 of this thread it was 2010 when I put in the carbon fiber washers.

My probem is 4 of my 6 reels do like to kick into freespool after 7 years of use.  I pull the drag lever back to 0 drag and spools dont go into freespool. I have to manually pull a foot or so of line off the reel to get them to kick into freespool.    Once the spool spins a little they kick right into freespool and spin as they should.   But they should already be in freespool when the lever comes back.  Is the problem my belville washers have flattened out, or I need  a new spring inside the spool on the shaft?    Maybe reconfigure the washers to a thicker stack?   

I just want freespool when I pull the lever back.  Looking for a good solution before I use my hammer fixes everything approach.

Thanks,

BOE, Welcome.

I too have had similar issues in servicing the reels.  Granted, I don't know the condition of your reels, so my response is going to be general.

1)  Too much drag grease - I have found that sometimes, I really need to rub to get the excess grease off the drag as it seems to vaccum the pressure plate to the drag washer.  sometime, it takes a little rub and a new toothbrush to remove the excess grease and that'll do it.

2)  Pressure plate spring - Sometimes the pressure plate spring is worn and needs replacing from use.

3)  Bearing and Shaft - Sometimes the pressure plate bearing and shaft are binding a little and doesn't pop free unless the spool and pressure plate are not moving in unison.  This, I take the shaft out of the reel, put it in my drill, and apply oil on the shaft and use a fine sandpaper or micro file and go up and down the shaft removing any excess material that may be there binding the pressure plate bearing.

4)  Other stuff - check the spool shaft and make sure it's clean then lubed with a very thin lube.  I use corrosionX and slide the bearing up and down to ensure that it's well coated and the bearing slides freely.

Hope this helps

Bryan

G'day BOE,
Bryan's got you on the right track.
However, if you're still having issues after working through the above suggestions, perhaps try the following...
Over time, the graphite frame can swell slightly where the spool shaft goes into the left side plate (it's a relatively common problem).
If the cross-pin is binding in the slot, the spool can't move back into free spool (without 'encouragement').

(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_07_08_17_4_01_30_206702445.jpeg)

Use a small file to open the slot very slightly - don't overdo it though.
Once the spool shaft can move back and forth smoothly, you'll have solved the problem.
Good luck, Justin

I keep forgetting about the swelling of the frame

Thanks guys, I am going to guess it is to much grease right off the bat,  I smear that cals drag grease on fairly heavy and dont get it all wiped off.  I live by the, if a little bit is good a lot is better.

I will also check for frame swelling where the cross pin goes.

I know this is an old thread, but I figured this is the best place to ask my question...I recently purchased a brand new TLD 25..made in Malaysia unfortunately..I have a few concerns. My friend also bought one. My concerns are..at the same drag setting..14 lbs at strike, 18lbs at full my lever is substantially harder to move along the quadrant than my friend's. It requires a good deal of effort to bring it out of freespool and to move it to strike and full position It is not gritty, it just feels very stiff and under a lot of pressure. His is butter smooth. My handle is much harder to turn as well..I am sure I have very little free spool time if any at all. The only visual discrepancy I could find was that on my reel, there was a ring of grease around my "O" Seal that could be seen when it pops out after the reel is put into gear. On my friend's there is no grease visible. It is just a smooth black surface....what is up with my brand new reel that apparently I may have wasted my money on?? ???javascript:void(0);

Thanks so much for any help!

It sounds very much like your reel shipped with a bad pinion bearing, or that you crunched it by setting the drag too high. If it gets hard to push the lever forward and hard to turn the handle, you are damaging the pinion bearing. If you pop open the reel and take out the pinion bearing, I'll bet anything that it feel gritty ...

So it is abnormal for the lever to get harder to push into strike and full as the drag is increased? The effort required to move the lever should remain constant?

Yes, when the drag is set too high, the lever will become hard to push and the handle will become hard to turn. This is unnoticeable are moderate drag ranges. The problem is that once you do it -- set the preset too high and then engage the lever just once -- you've likely crunched the bearing and will need to replace it. I see this quite a lot in the shop...

I am certainly no expert but I think this issue does not lie with the pinion gear..reason being...I have not forced the lever in any way..I understand what you are saying that if I really try to force it I will crunch the gear. But I have not done that. I was cross referencing with my friend's TLD and I noticed that his lever can meet the same resistance as mine on the quadrant..however..this is only after his preset drag knob  is turned another full turn past where mine is set at..and his drag naturally is noticeably higher than my drag when his lever meets the same resistance level as mine. So basically it seems  that his lever is butter smooth and meets little resistance at the same drag strength where mine is meeting resistance.. And if I turn my knob back a full turn so that I meet the same butter smooth turn of the lever of my friend's my drag is significantly less... leading me to conclude that somehow my drag seems to be weaker or there  is an issue with my preset system..its a turn behind somehow it seems...

It is not the pinion **gear** that gets crunched at high drag, it is the pinion **bearing.** You may have gotten a bad pinion bearing with the reel. One more thing: Remember to never adjust the preset knob except with the reel is in free spool.

So you think the issue still lies with the pinion bearing? I do not see said bearing on the schematics list..is there another title for it? and yes I don't think that will be a problem as the knob seems very tight when the reel is in gear..I don't think I could turn it if I tried

AK's spot on.
Part #TLD0215.
Good luck, Justin

Thanks for the help guys, if I pull the reel apart to get a look at the pinion bearing, what should I look for as far as it being broken or faulty? And just out of curiosity, what part of the reel is damaged if the preset knob is turned when the reel is in gear, not free spool?

The pinion bearing may feel 'gritty' or rough, but it's not always apparent when not under load.
Best just to replace it.
The threads on the spool shaft and drag preset (ie internal) can be damaged by adjusting while the drag's engaged, but they're likely fine.
Let us know how you get on.
Good luck, Justin

Turning the present when not in free spool can also damage the cam, the brass piece under the present knob. Look at it and make sure the hole is square and not damaged and beginning to round off.

All right I pulled the reel apart last night..here were my findings..I could not find anything wrong with the pinion bearing..it felt smooth and was rust free. I may just have one ordered and replace it for the heck of it though. Interestingly, the drag washer on this "new" reel looked like it had some substantial wear. There were multiple black contact rings on the washer. There were also little black shavings of some sort of material in the grooves of the pinion gear and up under the dog and ratchet. It was almost like a plastic..it was not a metal..I don't think it was doing any harm but I went ahead and cleaned it all out and re-lubed.

Hey Alan,

I have two Ocean Master OLD25s, one OLD20C, and one Shumano TLD 20 that I intend to put on the market.  Reels are too large for my fishing.  Is the tutorial identical in most respects for the Ocean Master and the Shumano?  I see minor differences, like the detent for the lever, but inside they seem identical.  Think the OLD 20 already has a graphite drag washer.  One 20C reel is new in the box, has a great grip and freespool of near 20 sec without line. 

Should I use my free time to service these reels or just let them go in like new condition, as is?

Do buyers pay any attention to the reels being serviced/maintained properly and/or prepared for the salt from the get go?  Or do prospective buyers want to do the service themselves?

I still marvel at the detail of your tutorials!

                                            Fishy76

i have seen photos of the ocean master reels but have never opened one up.  i'll bet they are just copies.  most people will not service a reel themselves.  you have a very small minority here on this board.  most people only notice a reel when there is a problem. 

Alan, Brian,

Great read, thanks for all the info.

Do you have a website where you sell these upgrades, bearings, handles? I've got 4 old 25's that all need help. Mainly the pinion bearings. 

Another thing is this preset knob. Are you able to tighten it all the way down? None of my reels will allow that. What does the preset mean? I don't understand how it's meant to work.

Has there been a better anti reverse gear made for any of these reels? I wish they had less spin back. 

It's possible to double dog the TLD's with alternating dogs to reduce the backplay.....

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7815.0

not easily.  there is not alot of extra room in the side plate.   :-\

Quote from: alantani on May 18, 2014, 04:49:51 AM
not easily.  there is not alot of extra room in the side plate.   :-\

I agree Alan, it is not "easy" compared to doing this on a Senator. But certainly possible for someone with some basic machining skills. During our off season down here, I am planning on double dogging a heap of TLD's of various sizes for myself and others. I was also going to post how I did them as well, if people are interested. It will be similar method as that in the TLD 5 mod.

Nice work Rothmar, I'd be interested to see how the double dog TLD 20/25 goes for you.  8)
I've had that on my bucket list for awhile now.
Keep up the good work, and Thanks for sharing!
Vinaka

i know that these are very popular reels, but they still remain the most costly reels to upgrade properly.  my handle is $43 and other cost the same, and the stock handle has to be replaced. the carbontex drag is $19 and is also a near mandatory upgrade.  then add my charge of $40 to do a full service on the reel and you are instantly over $100. something to take into account when you look at this reel for possible purchase.   :-\

I've got a ways to go before I get my reels up to date.

Thanks for all the help. 

Just to verify that the Ocean Master reels sold under Offshore Angler are in fact "almost" the same reel. The lever shaft body is plain old steel instead of bronze as found on the TLD.

I just picked up one of these tld25's a couple days ago.  Of course I knew exactly where to come to beef them up but I must say I'm impressed with the detail given in this write up! 

I am completely new to conventional reels but I do service my spinners, so I am some what confident in doing the upgrades with the help from Alan's write up.  Not sure I want to though lol. I'm seeing that it's pretty important to get into these reels early to prevent problems in the future, would you guys recommend I either send it in or attempt it myself right out of the box?  I'm completely green when it comes to these things, I was thinking maybe I should learn to catch a few fish with it first?  What are your thoughts?

G'Day Alan,
there seems to be some controversy on whether the drag washer should be tagged to stop it spinning against the housing.
Is this an issue or not?
If it is a problem what if we go the way of Daiwa Saltist and contact adhesive the carbontex washer to the housing. This can be easily stripped off later if we need to change it but would stop the rotation.
What is your expert opinion on this?
I have just rebuilt my TLD 25
in Australia these are extremely common both with charters and mid size recreational fishermanall ex Malaysia and dry.
Pretty happy with the rebuild but will need to go back in to do the masking tape thingy or get an upgrade kit from you.
Whats the cost on new handle plus washers.
Can I buy some spacers and Bellville washers to share amongst a few friends here
Thanks for a great site.
Using your photos I have also serviced my late fathers jigmaster 500 from the 60's.
Be well
Andy 

guys, i have still not caught up with pm's, but i'm trying.  an e-mail is ok, too.  get me your address and let me know what you need and i will send them out. 

Pachedu

These guys have a good supply of bellevilles and other little bits and pieces for reels. They are located in Qld.

http://www.smallparts.com.au/

They may not always have every last little thing in stock, but they always get it in for you.
Prices aren't too bad either. Cheaper than buying the parts from Reel part suppliers in Australia, who are taking us all for a ride.

Thanks Rothmar,
They are not far from me.
I didn't realise they had spares I thought they were only into micro bearings.
This could be a real winner.
Have a great weekend
Andy

For up grade My Tld 20 Mono speed

good start.  let me know if you need bellevilles or shim washers for the pressure plate. 

Hi Alan,
I have changed only carbon drag
and grease reel and the "open" bearings.
I not have test the drag but
seem fine.
Are the belleville  obligated?

no.  they are only useful if you wish to push the drag range higher.  anything past 20 pounds/9kg puts the frame at risk of cracking. 

Anyone have a TLD 25 cross pin laying around they would sell?   I decided to lube up my reel, and this cross pin fell into the abyss.  My work area is actually clean for a once, I guess no good deed goes unpunished.  :P

Key 46

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/98TLD_25_ARB_v1_m56577569830570245.pdf

Alan, Greetings from Mariato, Panama. I have about 6 old TLD 20/25s that I abused in Panama fishing for big Broomtail Groupers, AJs and Cubera Snappers. Ill of them have one or more bad bearings and are in very rough condition. They have been in a box for years while I took a 8 year break from that type of fishing. I am now retired and am trying to get everything ready for some major fishing in Panama this Spring. I was going to buy all new reels until I ran across this thread. I am now motivated to rebuild the old TLDs. Since many of the bearing will need to be replaced, is there any merit in going with Ceramic Boca Bearings?  PanamaTom

No need to drop money for ceramic bearings in a unit not meant for casting.

Thank you Whalebreath. I do use the Speed Masters for casting so I will use them on those reels.

Quote from: Kayaker on August 15, 2015, 12:41:46 AM
Anyone have a TLD 25 cross pin laying around they would sell?   I decided to lube up my reel, and this cross pin fell into the abyss.  My work area is actually clean for a once, I guess no good deed goes unpunished.  :P

Key 46

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/98TLD_25_ARB_v1_m56577569830570245.pdf

call shimano at 877-577-0600.  they usually send out things like this for free!

Quote from: PanamaTom on November 14, 2015, 03:41:59 PM
Alan, Greetings from Mariato, Panama. I have about 6 old TLD 20/25s that I abused in Panama fishing for big Broomtail Groupers, AJs and Cubera Snappers. Ill of them have one or more bad bearings and are in very rough condition. They have been in a box for years while I took a 8 year break from that type of fishing. I am now retired and am trying to get everything ready for some major fishing in Panama this Spring. I was going to buy all new reels until I ran across this thread. I am now motivated to rebuild the old TLDs. Since many of the bearing will need to be replaced, is there any merit in going with Ceramic Boca Bearings?  PanamaTom

tom, a couple of things to consider.  first, it really is a good thing to replace all the white canvas drags in this reel with carbon fiber.  the carbontex drag washers from smoothdrag are $19 each and really are very important.  next is the bearings. just stick with plain abec-5 stainless steel.  for maximum life, you can pack the bearings with grease.  a mini bearing packer is really helpful here.  and lastly, the handles.  i have a great stainless steel handle arm with a large grip.  it really helps!!! 

the other issue is drag range.  the wide frame is actually weaker than the narrow frame.  you are functionally limited to straight 60# mono or a 60# topshot with 18 pounds of drag.  anything more and you risk cracking the frame.  since you've used these reels before, i'm guessing they were adequate then and will still be adequate now, but it might be worth re-evaluating them if you are considering a higher drag range. 

if you need parts, let me know.  thanks! alan

Alan, I have taken apart 2 of my TLD-20s and will need to procure some parts and lubrication products before I proceed with the rebuild. I think I will upgrade to the larger handles. I contact you directly in the next week with list of parts I will need. Looks like one of them was serviced by one of my mates and some parts are missing.  I have found these reels to be great for top water trolling wahoo, dorado and smaller tuna but not enough beef for reef digging. I have switched to the TLD 2 speeds for the heavier work.  Thank you for your reply.  Tom

This afternoon I gave a friend's near new TLD25 a quick once over (thorough lube and a home cut carbontex washer ie. no tabs). Before I started I'd noticed that the drag was a bit lumpy but I wasn't too concerned as I was blaming the stock canvas washer. The problem I'm having is the drag is still lumpy when set at 10lb at strike. I've done a few TLD's of my own and all came up silky smooth after the washer replacement. I've got no problems swapping out parts with one of my TLD's as a process of elimination but is there anything else I could have overlooked ?.

Thanks,
Anthony.

Hi Stuck, did you grease the drags with Cal's? Are you cranking the reel against the drag while holding the spool. Doing that will not give you a correct reading on the smoothness of the drags. Hook it to a friend to run with it or the dog or a short run with the car or whatever you can get to pull drag like a fish on the run. Also is the drag cover tightened down securely on the edges of the drag washer?    RUDY

Hi Anthony,

Are you holding the spool and cranking or is someone taking the line walking away from you?

Holding the spool may feel lumpy because it's difficult for use to control the side load of the spool.  try tying the line off on someone or something and move away as fast or slow as you want to test the drags and see how it is.

Thanks for your replies. I've hooked the snap swivel to a nail in a post and am walking away holding the rod. What I do notice is that although there are a few tight spots during every turn of the spool, when the knot for the double is still on the spool it stops in about the same position every time. The drag washer has a small amount of freeplay inside the spoo lplus I used the biscuit colour Cal's and the LH threaded drag nut was locked down reasonably firm using the tool. To my way of thinking, there's only 2 parts left to check being the spool and the drag plate but if there's something I've missed please correct me.

Thanks again,
Anthony. 

Maybe check the right bearing.

OK, One item at a time and changing the part back before trying the next one. I tried the RH bearing, drag nut, drag plate assembly, drag washer and it didn't come good until I tried the spool out of one of my 25's and then I put the suspect spool into my 25 and it played up. Is there anything I can check on the bad spool or do we just start looking for another spool ?. None of my reel receipts are younger than 10 years old and the bloke that owns it hasn't got the receipt for it so warranty's doubtful.

All good. I gave the spool to a machinist mate of mine and he said there was a small amount of runout in the spool. He said had to take no more than about .005" off of the drag face to get it running true. I put it back together doubting that that could make a difference and now it's every bit as good as my other TLD's.  :)

(http://)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa325/tommygiles/TDG%20teardown.jpg) (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/tommygiles/media/TDG%20teardown.jpg.html)
(http://)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa325/tommygiles/TLD%20Upgrade%20Parts.jpg) (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/tommygiles/media/TLD%20Upgrade%20Parts.jpg.html)
(http://)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa325/tommygiles/tld%20upgrade.jpg) (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/tommygiles/media/tld%20upgrade.jpg.html)

I am Panama bound in two weeks and looking forward to abusing these old neglected TLD 20s again on some big game.  Thank you Alan for the tutorial, advice, and parts!

have a great trip!!!!!

Ever have an issue taking the preprogram dial off? It starts to unscrew off then stops and becomes extremely tough to turn. When it breaks free, there is a pop and it resets itself for me to start the process all over again. Any suggestions?

So I have been struggling with a TLD25 trying to get any free spool when there was any drag at strike. If I turned the preset knob enough to get even a small amount of drag at strike I lost free spool. I took it apart and put it back together too many times. Here's what I found after really trying to understand how this thing works,

(http://i.imgur.com/LhpcD1x.jpg)

This little brass bit, lever shaft body, TLD0011 rides on the cam built into the handle. It should remain stationary as the drag lever is moved. In this case the stainless steel of the shaft hogged out the formerly squared off hole but only from the bottom since the shaft tapers to round at its end. From the top TLD011 still looks squared. The TLD0011 was turning with the drag lever.

I won this battle.

The deformed lever shaft body is usually from someone turning the preset dial while not in free spool. The TLD must be in free spool when adjusting the drag pressure.

Once you get a new one you should be good to go.

Hi Rick,

Keith is correct. If the Lever Shaft Body is at all deformed (it's square "hole" is rounded off), your freespool and shifting will be messed up.

When you replace it, do it as a set with a new Pre-program dial also. They are cheap, and usually the first place to fail on a TLD.
Replace those at the first sign of corrosion. If your's is still good, cool, you'll have a spare.
Believe me you'll need it in a year or so.
;)

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I'm sure they were twisting away on the pre programmed dial all the time and ground out the brass of the lever shaft body.

So I'm just an amateur working on friend's gear. When I'm trying to fix something that I haven't worked on before the tricky part is making sure I understand how the thing works, like the lever shaft body staying stationary with the shaft and riding on the cam in the lever when it's turned. Once I got that it was easy to find that the lever shaft body was damaged. It's oddly satisfying.

Now the hard part is trying to teach somebody what not to do with their gear.

Hi Guys ,

Quick Question , after a recent servicing and rebuild on my TLD 20 , I found with the pre dail knob tightened all the way up to give maximum drag the handle become stiff and hard to turn , not impossible just an effort , are there any thoughts on things I could check to see if that is the problem ? Any help appreciated

Quote from: Jamie D on July 16, 2016, 04:00:13 AM
Hi Guys ,

Quick Question , after a recent servicing and rebuild on my TLD 20 , I found with the pre dail knob tightened all the way up to give maximum drag the handle become stiff and hard to turn , not impossible just an effort , are there any thoughts on things I could check to see if that is the problem ? Any help appreciated

Most likely since you tightened the "pre dial knob" all the way up you are way above the maximum drag rating for the reel. Going over the max drag the pinion is pulled too tight into the pinion bearing making the handle hard to turn then drag is applied. This will destroy the pinion bearing if you fish the reel with this amount of drag and could even damage the bearing when testing.

Quote from: SoCalAngler on July 16, 2016, 05:05:18 AM

Quote from: Jamie D on July 16, 2016, 04:00:13 AM
Hi Guys ,

Quick Question , after a recent servicing and rebuild on my TLD 20 , I found with the pre dail knob tightened all the way up to give maximum drag the handle become stiff and hard to turn , not impossible just an effort , are there any thoughts on things I could check to see if that is the problem ? Any help appreciated

Most likely since you tightened the "pre dial knob" all the way up you are way above the maximum drag rating for the reel. Going over the max drag the pinion is pulled too tight into the pinion bearing making the handle hard to turn then drag is applied. This will destroy the pinion bearing if you fish the reel with this amount of drag and could even damage the bearing when testing.

Thanks for the Feedback Socal :)

Quote from: alantani on October 28, 2009, 05:26:35 AM

Quote
Hi Alan,

I received everything on Friday and your check is in today's mail.  Thank you!

I serviced the reel on Saturday for fishing on Sunday.  The reason I started working on this reel in the first place was that it had no freespool unless I backed the preselect way off to the point there was almost no drag in strike position.  Unfortunately, after servicing following your tutorial, I seem to have the same problem.  It is perhaps slightly improved.  Some of the details below:

-   I removed the shield from all the shaft bearings and seemed to be in good condition – no rust and all spun freely.  Still, I cleaned all with carb cleaner and lubed with ReelX.  The right main side plate bearing was also in good shape but I cleaned the old grease out and lubed with blue grease.

-   I removed the flat washer and installed the 5 pre-load spring B's with the configuration "(()))"

-   I installed the shim washer, with the preload spring "A" in the down position, but there still was play so I took it back apart and installed the preload spring in the up position.  After the second installation, there was no play.

When I was done I had about 75 seconds free spool as long as the preprogram dial was backed off enough to get freespool.  However, when I adjusted the preprogram dial until I got 10 pounds drag at the strike position, I lost all freespool.  In order to regain freespool, I must back off the preselect a little less than a half turn, about 160 to 170 degrees.  I did not measure how much drag I had at strike with that preselect setting, but it was very little, perhaps a couple pounds at most.

So...what gives?  Did I do something wrong?  Is there something else I must do?

P.S.  The drag is sweet.  Smooth as butter.

i'm going to assume that the installation is correct and you have no broken belleville washers.  could the pressure plate be seriously cockeyed?  you trued it up with washer!  review the rebuild tutorial if you need to, but i'm guessing you did not make a mistake in the rebuild.  first thing.  set the drag to 15 pounds and pull on the line.  this will "seat" everything properly.  now back off on the lever and see if you get freespool.  didn't work, did it......

with the reel assembled, throw the lever back and forth and make sure the spool snaps left to right properly.  if not, the spool shaft could be getting stuck in that hole in the left side plate.  unlikely, but possible......

back the preset knob way off until the spool spins freely.  then turn the preset knob down until you can spin the spool and you loose freespool.  check the drag again.  only 10 pounds, huh?  ok, next......

nothing worked, right?  ok, call shimano at 877-577-0600 and order up a new lever.  yours might be worn.  keep me posted.  alan

Having this same issue as we speak, was there an outcome of this? I'm open to suggestions.

check the brass cam under the preset knob.  i found one yesterday that was cracked. 

Quote from: alantani on August 30, 2016, 01:24:09 AM
check the brass cam under the preset knob.  i found one yesterday that was cracked. 

looks to be in good shape. Frustration is starting to settle in.....

Quote from: luckybass on August 30, 2016, 02:09:47 AM

Quote from: alantani on August 30, 2016, 01:24:09 AM
check the brass cam under the preset knob.  i found one yesterday that was cracked.  

looks to be in good shape. Frustration is starting to settle in.....

Found the issue, yes it is the brass cam, cam should be a square shape but it is a circle. Brass cam is stripped and the new one has been ordered. This is the second time this happen to a TLD, last time was a TLD20. I guess this could be a common issue? BTW the reel i am working on is the TLD25

found this to be the culprit several times.  :-\

It's a very common disease with the TLD's.
But easily fixed!
While you're at it, I'd suggest you order a spare Pre-program dial as well, those are usually the first thing to go on a TLD.
These are cheap parts.
Get a nice layer of grease on it, but don't glob it in there too heavy.

I'll usually end up replacing about 3-4 cams for every 10 pre-program dials.
I probably burn through about 2 dozen pre-program dials a year here ::)

I'm going to upgrade this reel I'm told there is a kit available ... how can I get one? If there is no kit, What are the dimensions of the Stainless steel washer used to replace the 4 layers of masking tape. THanks

Quote from: alantani on December 07, 2008, 05:11:22 PM
here is a link to the schematics for the single speed tld 20 and 25 reels.....

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_20_ARB_v1_m56577569830570244.pdf

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_25_ARB_v1_m56577569830570245.pdf

and here are the reels.  except for the width of the spool, frame and spool shaft, the reels are identical.  these reels were shipped in from hawaii.  the freespool was very poor, but these reels were still in good enough shape to kill fish. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0984.JPG)

by now, you all know the drill.  pull the preprogram dial (key #9), the dial spring (key #82), the lever shaft body and "O" seal (key# 10 and 11), and the drag control lever (key #83).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0986.JPG)

remove the lever quadrant (key #192) and screws (key #19, 21 and 86).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0987.JPG)

remove the seven side plate bolts (key #24).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0988.JPG)

separate out the frame, spool and right side plate assemblies.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0989.JPG)

let's start with the frame first.  grease up the click spring (key #101) and click pawl (key #231).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0991.JPG)

these old wing nut clamps are great for gouging up the gelcoat of a boat.  let's get rid of them.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0992.JPG)

the graphite clamps are much better.  ok, that's it for the frame. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0993.JPG)

now for the spool.  once again, the cooling shield (key #89) was loose.  note the rubber gasket that seals up the drag chamber when the reel is in gear.  remember to keep this and all of the shimano graphite lever drag reels in gear when they will be exposed to water. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0994.JPG)

remove the drag plate assembly (key #196, 60, 91 and 31) and set it aside with the cooling shield. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0995.JPG)

now for the left side of the spool.  remove cross pin B (key #50).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0996.JPG)

remove the click gear (key #98) and screws (key #99).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0997.JPG)

pull the main shaft (key #173), keeping the bellevilles, thrust washers and bearings in order.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0998.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0999.JPG)

these bearing are gummed up, but not rusted.  with a small pen knife, pry out the shields and let's clean them out with carb cleaner and compressed air, then lube them with corrosion x.  by cleaning the bearings rather than replacing them, we'll save someone $40-50!

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1000.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1001.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1004.JPG)

now we're going to change the configuration of the bellevilles (pre-load springs).  the original orientation of the pre-load washer A (key #72) and the pre-load spring B's (key #96) is "|()()" and the thickness is 4.61 mm.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1002.JPG)

we're going to toss the flat washer and add a fifth pre-load spring B.  the new configuration will be "(()))" and the thickness is 4.52 mm.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1003.JPG)

back into the spool it goes.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1006.JPG)

grease the screw holes.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1007.JPG)

install the click gear (key #98), screws (key #99) and cross pin B (key #50).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1008.JPG)

now for the right side of the spool.  the replacement drag washer is the drag washer used in the two speed shimano tld 20/30 II, part #TT-0246.  the tabs were cut off with wire cutters.  then i found an impact socked that fit the center hole just perfectly.  i carefully held the drag washer against a grinder so that it would spin, and ground the drag washer down to the exact same size as the stock washer. don't worry about not having the same tabs as the stock washer.  the tabs are not needed. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1009.JPG)

apply a thin coat of shimano drag grease to the spool.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1010.JPG)

apply a thin coat of grease to both sides of the drag washer and press it into place.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1011.JPG)

rub off all the excess grease.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1012.JPG)

install the bearings (key #216) and pressure release spring (key #202).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1013.JPG)

you will notice a small amount of play in the drag plate assembly.  that play needs to be eliminated.  pop out the seal lock (key #31).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1014.JPG)

from left to right, you see the seal lock (key #31), the drag plate (key #91), pre-load spring A (key #60) and the pinion guard (key #196).  what i am holding is a stainless steel washer that my machine shop buddy punched out for me.  this replaces the 4 layers of masking tape that you saw in the tld 20/30 two speed upgrade post. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1016.JPG)

it there is ALOT of play in the drag plate assembly, install pre-load spring A in the "down" position to take up more play.  normally you can install pre-load spring "up" position.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1017.JPG)

install the drag plate assembly and cooling shield (key #89).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1018.JPG)

use the wrench (key #230) to tighten down the spooling shield. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1019.JPG)

install the spool assembly back into the frame.  install the pinion gear (key #168).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1020.JPG)

ok, we're done with the frame and spool.  now we're on to the right side plate.  first, we need to get to the right main side plate bearing (key #215).  a "coffee grinder" sensation when you turn the handle says this bearing is shot.  it is always the first one to go out.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1021.JPG)

remove the handle screw (key #75), the handle nut (key #76), the handle (key #208), gear shaft shield (key #78), gear shaft thrust washer (key #79) and the main gear (key #166).  the dog (key #26) will fall out.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1022.JPG)

the original bearing was totally rusted, so the shields were removed from a new bearing, and the bearing was packed with grease. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1023.JPG)

replace dog (key #26) and the main gear (key #166). 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1024.JPG)

these reels definitely need a handle upgrade.  tiburon makes a nice one.  http://www.tiburonengineering.com/html/t-bar_handles.html  reel colors makes one as well,  http://www.reelcolors.com/reelcolors_004.htm  this is the one that is made for me. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1025.JPG)

install the gear shaft thrust washer (key #79), the gear shaft shield (key #78), the new handle, the handle nut (key #76) and the handle nut screw (key #75). 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1026.JPG)

install the right side plate assembly and screws (key #24).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1027.JPG)

install the lever quadrant (key #192) and screws (key #21, 19 and 86).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1028.JPG)

just a side note for a common problem.  one of the screw holes for the lever quadrant was stripped out.  a small copper strip was cut to fit the hole.  after running the screw back in, the copper strip held the screw just fine.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1034.JPG)

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1035.JPG)


install the drag control lever (key #83) and push it down into the "free" position.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1029.JPG)

align the lever shaft body (key #11) so that it "nests" with the drag control lever and drop it in.   add a small amount of grease, then the dial spring (key #82) and the pre-program dial (key #9).

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1030.JPG)

check the freespool.

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1031.JPG)

check the maximum drag at strike before losing free spool.  you should be able to get at least 20 pound.  this particular reel was able to get 26 pound of drag at strike before freespool was lost.  when backed off to 12 pound of drag at strike, the freespool time was 60 seconds. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1032.JPG)

you can clearly see the difference in size between the stock handle and the larger aftermarket handle. 

(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1033.JPG)

just a side note.  the tld 20 has nearly the same line capacity as the penn senator 113HL.  the tld 25 is nearly the same as the penn senator 113HLW.  for the tld 20 and 25, this means lots of line capacity, and now plenty of drag.  the problem is the graphite frame.  i am not aware of a single case of frame failure with these single speed tld's.  i am certain that the tld 20/25 frame can easily handle 15 pounds of drag at strike with no risk of frame failure.  it may be able to handle up to 18 pounds of drag at strike.  please do not exceed 18 pounds. 

so what this boils down to is straight 40-50 pound mono on a tld 20 with a 30% drag setting, and straight 50-60 pound mono on a tld 25 and the same 30% drag setting.  you see that 18 pound of drag at strike is the heaviest setting that i would ever recommend.  i believe the 18 pound strike setting for either reel is safe because i am aware of no cases of frame failure.  if anyone out there knows differently, please let me know.  i have no problem adjusting these numbers down.

finally got three reels to work on at once, to make it easier to see the "before," "after," and "in between" shots!

https://youtu.be/yYjyFUef7-s

Been busy at work and like to come on the website sometimes to 'decompress'  ( My kids word for relax) maybe learn a thing or two.   WOW. I didn't think the PowerPoint instruction could be any better till I watched the video.  Seeing it, especially the explanation of the sleeve. Yep, love the video, great explanations. Thanks Alan.

Mike

Quote from: erikpowell on August 30, 2016, 11:43:14 PM
It's a very common disease with the TLD's.
But easily fixed!
While you're at it, I'd suggest you order a spare Pre-program dial as well, those are usually the first thing to go on a TLD.
These are cheap parts.
Get a nice layer of grease on it, but don't glob it in there too heavy.

I'll usually end up replacing about 3-4 cams for every 10 pre-program dials.
I probably burn through about 2 dozen pre-program dials a year here ::)

how do you know when the pre-program dial is toast?
I mean, lets say everything works on the TLD20, then the drag starts to act weird, so after checking and changing benevilles, bearings, even CAM what phisical change or marks do you search on the program dial to see if its the culprit?

Hi Steelfish,

I've never seen the pre-program dial's threads cause issues. What usually happens is the dial corrodes and doesn't allow the lever shaft body (cam) to move freely inside anymore.
Often times the cam will be stuck inside the dial and when that happens the drag adjustment no longer functions and you can't unscrew the dial from the spool shaft

I've had to hacksaw a few apart to get them off.

If the dial comes off freely and everything separates, and there's no visible bubbling or corrosion, then chances are there's no issue with the dial itself and I'd look towards the cam. Has the square hole been rounded off as described in the previous post?
Can you describe how the drag is acting weird?

Quote from: erikpowell on June 03, 2019, 02:06:21 AM
look towards the cam. Has the square hole been rounded off as described in the previous post?
Can you describe how the drag is acting weird?

actually the cam square hole is been rounded a bit, so pretty sure this should be the culprit of the drag but since I order the parts from USA to Mexico I have to wait some weeks to have them and I wanted to order all the possible problematic parts in one order
weird = it doesnt have any drag even with with the dial all tighten up well maybe 3-4# at the most and of couse no free spool, I will order a new set of 4 benevilles and new cam, I already installed new bearings on the spool and sideplate.
the pre-program dial looks in good shape with no signs of corrosion or anything

I've read most of the posts on the TLD 20/25 and wanted to understand what modifications would be useful if all you are looking to do is fish 30lb mono on these reels.  I am trying to replicate the drag specs and freespool characteristics of a Talica 20 BFC or other purpose built sailfish and white marlin reels without spending $700 on a reel.  Around 3-5 lbs of drag at strike and potentially 10-15 lbs at full.  Reels would be used exclusively for light trolling or "dink bait" fishing.  This is trolling chin weighted ballyhoo with light leaders and circle hooks.  Very popular in Florida, the Carolinas and places like Guatemala and Belize for sailfish, white and striped marlin and dolphin.  Goal is to have just enough drag to keep the line from creeping off the reel while trolling so that fish don't feel it when they strike and a gradual drag curve for setting the circle hook.  Freespool and related ability to "drop-back" or pitch baits to fish is critical as well.

I realize I am sacrificing retrieve speed by going with the old school TLD, but I'm also not spending $275-700 on a reel with a higher gear ratio, depending on which purpose built Shimano, Avet, Alutecnos, Okuma or other reel you go with.  The other issue is that size of some of these reels necessitates the use of braid to have sufficient line capacity, which further adds to cost. 

I am picking up used TLDs in good shape at a reasonable price before making the upgrades. I plan to do this with a set of six reels and perform the upgrades myself.

From the prior posts, I noticed the following upgrades:

1.  Handles (check)
2.  Carbon fiber drag washers (check)
3.  Remove bearing shields, clean and lube as appropriate (check)
4.  Additional washers or bearing sleeve to avoid the loss of freespool when the reel is tilted (check)
5.  Additional washer or shim to secure the pressure plate (not sure on this part)
6.  Additional belville washers to increase drag at strike and full (not needed, buy maybe fewer or different configuration?)

So please let me know your thoughts on whether adding the additional washer on the pressure plate will improve the drags performance enough to warrant doing this as well.  Seems like having less play in this area is of an added benefit.  If the additional belville washers or changing the configuration is helpful, please let me know.  Finally, another other thoughts or advice is appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Gumbo

the carbontex drag is really a must have item, as is the handle.  i can provide both of those.  the drag is obviously available directly from smooth drag.  at that point, i would spool up the reel and check the drag curve to see where you are.  to give you such a big range between strike and full, i will likely be necessary to stiffen the belleville stack.  for this specific application, the tld 20/25 might work quite well!!!!!

send me a pm is you decide to go forward with this and need some parts!  and welcome!!!!!!

Alan - thanks for the quick reply.  Will follow up for parts once I collect a set of TLDs.

anytime!

Hey Alan,
About to dive into my TLD 25s.   A couple of questions.

Do you always service the sealed bearings (remove the dust shields and clean / put in Corrosion X), or only when the bearings are "gummed up".

On the instructions you used Corrosion X on some bearings (after removing the shields), but pack the last one w blue grease;  is that because the latter was rusted?   How about using Corrosion X on all of them ?

Any reason blue grease is used on the gears, vs Cals "Universal" reel grease?

Thanks!

for spool bearings, you'll need to oil then to keep freespool.  you likely won't need infinite freesspool, so anything is fine.  for non-spool bearings, i like to pack them with grease, but i have a special grease packer.  any grease is fine.  you could also use corrosion x on all of the bearings if you wish.  it's less important what you use, just as long as you use something. 

had a chance to go through four brand new shimano tld 20 single speed reels and was reminded how much i really appreciate these reels.  like all things, there is good and bad. 

well, the bad first - the design of these reels is ancient.  you could almost argue that they would be better off in a museum than out on the water.  these graphite frames will crack under too much pressure, the anodized and painted parts corrode, drag range is necessarily low straight out of the box, the handle grip is so small that it borders on criminal, and the stupidest thing is that they still have a canvas drag washer in this reel when the rest of the world uses greased carbon fiber!!! ugghhhh!!!!

the good things - the frame and right side plate are graphite so they won't corrode.  fade?  yes, but not corrode and you can fix the fading with a greasy toothbrush.  the important parts like the reel seat and gears are stainless steel.  the power to weight ratio is fine for straight 30, 40 or 50 pound mono.  not everyone in the world can fish with braid or even wants to.  the price point is great, even with upgrades.  and they are among the easiest reels in the world to work on.  how many times have people asked me about "the best reel," and how many times has my answer been that the best reel is the one that you can service yourself? 

in more modern "4/0" sized reels like the makaira 20 and international vsx/visx 20, we would be looking at 500 yards of 80-100 pound braid, 25 yards of 80 pound fluoro, 25 pounds of drag at strike and 40 pounds of drag at full.  these reels will likely be used for northern california albacore trolling, so schoolie fish that might average 15-25 pounds.  these reels were loaded with 270 yards of straight 50 pound mono. 

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/1_15_04_20_9_43_58_32559318.jpeg)

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/1_15_04_20_9_43_56_32553426.jpeg)

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/1_15_04_20_9_44_07_32564364.jpeg)

because of the graphite frame, we are limited to 20 pounds of drag at full.  with straight 50 pound mono, that means 15 pounds of drag at strike.  keeping the bellevilles in their original configuration of "(())" and just shimming the drag pressure plate, we get just that!

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/1_15_04_20_9_44_00_32553562.jpeg)

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/1_15_04_20_9_44_06_32562195.jpeg)

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/1_15_04_20_9_44_04_325621956.jpeg)

essential upgrades for this reel are a greased carbon fiber drag washer (Carbontex from smoothdrag.com) and a signature handle.  depending on how heavy you want to fish this reel, you are looking at straight 30, 40 or 50 pound mono.  keep the drag pressure under 20 pounds and you will have zero risk of catastrophic frame failure.  do an initial service and you will have a reel that should serve you for years with minimal maintenance.  even if you do have problems down the line, you should be looking at bearings only, and those are easy to replace.  just fish them within specs and you should have years of reliable service. 

john, your reels are ready!!!!

I still fish the single speed TLD's off of South Florida for light trolling. We typically do not catch large fish (50lbs+)here on the troll and those reels fill the role perfectly.  I fill the 15s with 20lb. mono and fill the 20s with 30lb. mono and set the strike drags at 6lbs and 9lbs respectively. Like Alan said, EZ PZ to work on. Still would like if Tiburon or Tom would make a aluminum frame but not really necessary.

Alan: I find that the new TLD's come with almost no grease in them from the factory. I tell guys to get the new one's serviced and the ones I see are dry and the ones that do'n't come in seize up before the summer is over. Must be a grease shortage over seas??? ???


Cheers:


Todd

Hello,

I'm having an issue with my TLD 25.  The Drag Control lever doesn't move freely anymore.  It will loosen up if I back off the Pre-Program Dial all the way but when I tighten it again the Drag Control Lever will lock up again.  Anyone else have this problem?  I've taken it apart a couple times to see if anything is wrong.  Does my Lever Shaft Body look bad?

(https://imgur.com/zzXe3Ry)
(https://imgur.com/a/HZBrPEl?)

Scott

the lever has to be in the "free" position when you assemble everything.  try this.....  remove the preset knob, spring and the brass cam, leaving the lever in place.  make sure that the hole in the cam is square on both sides and not rounded off.   then push the lever back to the free position, install the cam so that it nests into the level, add spring, then screw on the preset knob and screw it in almost all the way.  now ease the lever forward.  too tight?  back off on the preset knob until you can push the lever forward with moderate ease, set the drag with a scale and i think you should be good. 

I tried that with no luck unfortunately.  Made a quick youtube video showing the issue.

https://youtu.be/KQPEAX6FSuo (https://youtu.be/KQPEAX6FSuo)

Scott

is the hole in the brass cam still square or has it rounded off?

First yes the spool should move to the right. When you tighten the preset knob that pulls the spool over to put more pressure onto the drag plate.

Second it looks like after you moved the lever into gear you then tightened the preset knob some more. The preset should only be tightened in freespool and not when the reel is in gear. This is true for all lever drag reels.

Also you look pretty aggressive when you are turning the preset. What I mean by that is I have a brand new in box TLD 20. With none to very little drag at the strike setting, like less than 1 lb, when I put the reel into freespool and turn the preset one full turn I'm getting somewhere around 6-7 lbs of drag pressure. I'm not really sure as I don't have any line on the reel to do a real test. I'm just guessing at the lb range by feel. But, in the video it looks like you make several turns of the preset after you reset the reel in freespool. Turning the preset that much you may be setting the the drag way over specs and that may be the reason when you try to put the reel back into gear the lever will not push forward, the drag is set too high.

Try setting the reels drag at say 10 lbs at the strike setting. Put the reel into freespool adjust the preset and measure the drag at strike. If you need more or less drag put the reel into again into freespool adjust the preset, move the lever to strike and remeasure. Do this until you get 10 lbs at strike. Then test the lever and it should operate properly if everything is right inside of the reel.

I don't know what lb test you plan to use on that reel but on my lever drag reels I set my drag between 1/4 to 1/3rd of my lines breaking strength at strike. That way I use the strike setting as my main setting position and then adjust the lever if I want more or less drag while fighting a fish.

Quote from: SoCalAngler on November 28, 2020, 06:46:39 PM
...
Second, it looks like after you moved the lever into gear you then tightened the preset knob some more. The preset should only be tightened in freespool and not when the reel is in gear. This is true for all lever drag reels.

This!!

 

Quote from: SoCalAngler on November 28, 2020, 07:58:33 PM
...in the video it looks like you make several turns of the preset after you reset the reel in freespool. Turning the preset that much you may be setting the the drag way over specs and that may be the reason when you try to put the reel back into gear the lever will not push forward, the drag is set too high.

Try setting the reels drag at say 10 lbs at the strike setting. Put the reel into freespool adjust the preset and measure the drag at strike. If you need more or less drag put the reel into again into freespool adjust the preset, move the lever to strike and remeasure. Do this until you get 10 lbs at strike. Then test the lever and it should operate properly if everything is right inside of the reel.

I don't know what lb test you plan to use on that reel but on my lever drag reels I set my drag between 1/4 to 1/3rd of my lines breaking strength at strike. That way I use the strike setting as my main setting position and then adjust the lever if I want more or less drag while fighting a fish.

And this!!

Well-explained.  

Quote from: SoCalAngler on November 28, 2020, 07:58:33 PM
Also you look pretty aggressive when you are turning the preset. What I mean by that is I have a brand new in box TLD 20. With none to very little drag at the strike setting, like less than 1 lb, when I put the reel into freespool and turn the preset one full turn I'm getting somewhere around 6-7 lbs of drag pressure. I'm not really sure as I don't have any line on the reel to do a real test. I'm just guessing at the lb range by feel. But, in the video it looks like you make several turns of the preset after you reset the reel in freespool. Turning the preset that much you may be setting the the drag way over specs and that may be the reason when you try to put the reel back into gear the lever will not push forward, the drag is set too high.

Try setting the reels drag at say 10 lbs at the strike setting. Put the reel into freespool adjust the preset and measure the drag at strike. If you need more or less drag put the reel into again into freespool adjust the preset, move the lever to strike and remeasure. Do this until you get 10 lbs at strike. Then test the lever and it should operate properly if everything is right inside of the reel.

I don't know what lb test you plan to use on that reel but on my lever drag reels I set my drag between 1/4 to 1/3rd of my lines breaking strength at strike. That way I use the strike setting as my main setting position and then adjust the lever if I want more or less drag while fighting a fish.

It appears to be the cam that's the issue after a talk with Alan.  It's rounded on one side but square on the other.  Tried to post a picture of it but my imgur skills apparently suck!

You say to put it in free spool and then adjust the preset knob.  I was under the impression that you're supposed to adjust the preset while at the strike position until you reach your desired drag setting. 

Quote from: fishyaf on November 29, 2020, 06:28:45 PM
You say to put it in free spool and then adjust the preset knob.  I was under the impression that you're supposed to adjust the preset while at the strike position until you reach your desired drag setting. 

Broadly speaking you should never touch the preset without first putting the reel in freespool.

Quote from: boon on November 29, 2020, 08:37:06 PM
...you should never touch the preset without first putting the reel in freespool.

^ this

When in doubt read the instructions then reread them again & again until you really understand them. 

I need the pinion bearing size please. It's not in my notes.

Keith

Quote from: handi2 on February 03, 2023, 12:04:23 AMI need the pinion bearing size please. It's not in my notes.

Keith

according to my notes is TLD 20 II and 30 II pinion bearing size is 9x20x6

Thanks

I need the TLD single speed please

Quote from: steelfish on February 03, 2023, 12:30:18 AM

Quote from: handi2 on February 03, 2023, 12:04:23 AMI need the pinion bearing size please. It's not in my notes.

Keith

according to my notes is TLD 20 II and 30 II pinion bearing size is 9x20x6

It's the same on both reels.

Hey all,
I've got an interesting issue with a used TLD 20 I just got in the mail so I could try my hand at a lever drag.  Made in Malaysia, no corrosion, seems nearly new - spool looks like it was never filled with line, dry as a bone inside, strong grinding feel and catching when I turned it the first time.  It was advertised as working as it should/no returns ....

I thought it would be the side plate bearing, nope the bearing is fine - the main gear must ever so slightly be bent out of 90 degree in relation to the post.  Underside of the main gear grinds against the dog at the "low" part of the main gear each revolution even when I have the reel apart and pinion gear is not involved.  Has anyone ever encountered this before? 

So I'm trying to figure out how this happened, factory error?, is the post for the dog not seated in the plastic side plate as deeply as it should be, is the dog too thick, or was it simply a factory defect and the main main gear assembly was bad from the start?

I figure I will need a new main gear, pinion gear and dog just to fix the drive train let alone upgrading the drag for carbon fiber and Alan's magical tweaks.  And that's before I have started working on the lever drag to see what kind of shape that's in.

So, would you try to save this reel, I paid $90 for the reel.  And again, how could this even happen in the first place?

Thanks,  Chip

Is there a small crack anywhere on the side plate ?? You will have to look very closely. See if there is. A new side plate is not expensive. I have not seen issues with the main gears and it takes a lot of fishing to wear them out. look for a crack.

No, no Crack.  Looks barely used.  I paid special attention to the graphite frame on this thing.  No cracks.

The side plate not the frame. May be hair line.

Nope.  Not on side plate either. 
I keep wondering if the main gear assembly wasn't pressed together wrong at the factory and put a wobble onto the main gear.
Which I assume has already irreversably chewed up the main and pinion gears and is eating into the dog.
I don't know how else the gear would get a wobble.

I seem to remember something like this in another TLD thread.  If the main gear is press fit/peened onto the end of the shaft, it could have gotten off alignment. Or something similar?


Looking at the photos at the top  of this thread Haven't been inside a TLD in awhile.

-J

Yeah,
I think the main gear was either originally pressed together a bit "off" at the factory or the dog was cut too thick and that caused the gear to shift on the pressed in shaft, or the dog post sits too proud out of the side plate and that raises the dog too high and that shifted the gear on the shaft.

Something happened at the shimano factory I think.  Not too happy with shimano on this particular reel.