okuma makaira 50 II rebuild - 2/16/2010
by now, you all know the mantra - greased carbon fiber drag washers, grease on all the non-exposed metal surfaces, spool bearings open and oiled, non-spool bearings packed with grease and shielded, and large oversized off-set handles. a reel that delivers all of this will get an "A+." keep this in mind as we go through this next reel.
a box arrive from ontario yesterday.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_23_01_1.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_22_59_0.jpeg)
i'm going to crack open both of these reels, but the lever drag is first.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_23_05_2.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_23_51_0.jpeg)
since i've never opened up one of these before, let's take a look at the schematics.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_23_57_2.jpeg)
here's the double dog system.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_23_59_3.jpeg)
here's the new drag system.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_24_02_4.jpeg)
here's the gear cluster. this one looks familiar.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_24_43_0.jpeg)
found some more paperwork in the box.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_24_46_1.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_24_53_3.jpeg)
we've talked about a thrust bearing to take care of the side load at high drag settings. well, looks like okuma incorporated one.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_24_49_2.jpeg)
found a few more items in the box.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_24_56_4.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_25_45_0.jpeg)
and here is our reel. 43 seconds of freespool straight out of the box! not bad.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_25_52_1.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_26_01_2.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_26_08_3.jpeg)
back out the left side plate screws.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_26_13_4.jpeg)
there are four long screws (key #930-1195) and one short screw (key #930-1197) at the 12 o'clock position.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_26_58_0.jpeg)
unscrew the drag knob assembly (key #600).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_27_13_3.jpeg)
remove the left side plate assembly (key #300).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_27_01_1.jpeg)
you will find a light coat of corrosion x HD through out the reel.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_27_06_2.jpeg)
remove the spool assembly (key #400).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_29_10_0.jpeg)
remove the right side plate screws.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_29_19_3.jpeg)
there are four long screws (key #930-1193) and one short screw (key #930-1194) at the 12 o'clock position.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_29_21_4.jpeg)
ok, it's in pieces. so far, so good.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_30_18_0.jpeg)
back out the hangar screws (key #930-1220).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_30_22_1.jpeg)
yuck, loctite! without grease, these screws and screw holes can corrode.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_30_24_2.jpeg)
grease the hangar (key #108) and the screw holes and reinstall the hangar screws (key #930-1220).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_30_27_3.jpeg)
using a number 15 torx bit, remove the body foot screws (key #930-1125).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_30_29_4.jpeg)
grease on the base of the frame. very good.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_31_37_0.jpeg)
someone might have been in a hurry when he grease the body foot (key #102) and the reel foot gasket (key #102-1).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_31_41_1.jpeg)
grease the screw holes. these screws will not back out if they are properly torqued. if is far better than having the screws lock up due to corrosion.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_31_45_2.jpeg)
grease the body foot (key #102).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_31_49_3.jpeg)
install the left side plate (key #300). remember that the short left side plate screw (key #930-1197) goes in at the 12 o'clock position.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_31_57_4.jpeg)
the frame and left side plate are done. let's set them aside for now.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_32_47_0.jpeg)
now for the spool. first, remove the main shaft pin (key #717) on the left side of the spool. these are always getting lost.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_32_50_1.jpeg)
remove the high speed pinion gear (key #702) and the low speed pinion gear (key #702-1).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_32_54_2.jpeg)
remove the click pawl screws (key #930-093).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_32_56_3.jpeg)
when the last screw is removed, the entire assembly pops up.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_33_04_4.jpeg)
remove the click pawl (key #304).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_34_19_0.jpeg)
remove the waterproof cover (key #405).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_34_24_1.jpeg)
remove the drag washer assembly (key #'s 202, 607, 612, 611, 913, 612-1 and 608) as a unit.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_34_26_2.jpeg)
this is okuma's new free floating drag system.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_34_29_3.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_34_31_4.jpeg)
remove the drag washer retainer (key #608).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_35_29_0.jpeg)
this is what the drag stack looks like when it's spread out.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_35_41_2.jpeg)
you can see in this photo of the drag washer (key #611) that the cal's grease is not spread as evenly as it could be.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_35_44_3.jpeg)
though it is unlikely to be a problem, i am still going to regrease it.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_35_47_4.jpeg)
thoroughly clean off all of the excess grease.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_37_25_0.jpeg)
this is the outside of the key washer (key #612-1).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_37_28_1.jpeg)
reinstall the drag washer retainer (key #608) and set the drag assembly aside.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_37_31_2.jpeg)
there are six compression springs (key #204-4) that are used to center the drag washer. pull them all out and find a safe place for them.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_37_35_3.jpeg)
remove the key washer bearing (key #910-448), the compression spring (key #613) and the thrust bearing assembly (key #910-410).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_37_39_4.jpeg)
the key washer bearing measures 8x16x5mm and has a stamp saying EZO SS688ZZMC3PSSRL JAPAN. these are the expensive japanese bearings, so let's take a look inside.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_38_35_0.jpeg)
we've got grease smeared on one side.......
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_38_35_0.jpeg)
....... and NOTHING on the other!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_38_40_2.jpeg)
we'll come back to this bearing later. there are two more to look at. remove the ratchet gear screws (key #930-0084) and the ratchet gear (key #401).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_40_08_0.jpeg)
the bare spool now spins for 23 seconds. remember, the intact reel, straight out of the box, spun for 43 seconds. i think the heavy drag assembly gave it a little more inertia.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_40_15_2.jpeg)
here's what the main shaft assembly (key #718) looks like outside of the spool.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_40_17_3.jpeg)
another inspection. here is the right spool bearing (key #910-441). it also measures 8x16x5 and matches the key washer bearing that we just cracked open. grease on one side, nothing on the other.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_40_20_4.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_41_19_0.jpeg)
since this is a spool bearing, it will be cleaned with carb cleaner and compressed air, then lubed with xtreme reel +.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_41_19_0.jpeg)
now for the left side of the main shaft. remove the e-type retainer (key #1900-0004), the thrust washer (key #920-154), the bellevilles (key #609-1), and the thrust washer (key #920-441). keep these in order!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_41_24_2.jpeg)
let's inspect the left spool bearing (key #910-441). it measures 10x22x6mm and has a serial # of EZO SS 6900 RS JAPAN.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_41_27_3.jpeg)
a poor coating of grease on one side.........
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_41_31_4.jpeg)
...... and a little more on the other.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_42_27_0.jpeg)
air gaps leave this bearing vulnerable to attack from salt water. this spool bearing will also be opened, cleaned and lubed with xtreme reel +. water will most certainly get in, but now water will also get out!!!!! with the shields in place, any amount of water that intrudes will be trapped and cause immediate bearing failure. these open bearings will eventually fail as well, but they should last longer than shielded bearings.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_42_29_1.jpeg)
install the main spool assembly (key #718) and bearings. our bare spool just spun for 4 minutes and 10 seconds.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_42_33_2.jpeg)
install the ratchet gear (key #401) and screws (key #930-084).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_42_36_3.jpeg)
install the thrust bearing (key #910-410) and spring (key #613).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_42_38_4.jpeg)
the key washer bearing (key #910-448) does not affect freespool. let's pack it with greased. it is unfortunately now open. if i had a bearing packer, i could push grease right past the shields. i'm going to have to look at that.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_43_51_0.jpeg)
push the grease all the way through with your fingers and install the bearing. you've got to get the grease inside, not just on the surface.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_43_54_1.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_43_57_2.jpeg)
add a small bead of grease to all of holes in the right side of the spool (key #400).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_44_00_3.jpeg)
install the six drag washer springs (key #204-4).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_44_04_4.jpeg)
install the drag washer assembly.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_45_06_0.jpeg)
press the drag washer assembly down HARD over the six drag springs until they are properly seated. with a left hand assist, install the water proof cover (key #405).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_45_09_1.jpeg)
with a left hand assist, install the click pawl (key #304).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_45_12_2.jpeg)
install the six click pawl screws (key #930-084).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_45_14_3.jpeg)
ok, the spool assembly is done. give it a spin!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_45_16_4.jpeg)
now, for the right main side plate bearing (key #910-443). this bearing is always the first to fail. it looks like someone smeared a little grease over it, probably in an attempt to decrease the failure rate. that is what accurate currently does. it doesn't work for accurate and it won't work here.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_47_04_0.jpeg)
here is a close up view of the left side anti-reverse pawl (key #201). it's a novel design, and one that i hope will eventually be copied throughout the industry. once this pawl engages, it will not slip. it is, without a doubt, the most reliable anti-reverse system in the world. well done, gentlemen!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_47_07_1.jpeg)
this photo shows the right side silent spring (key #723-1) and the left side silent spring (key #723-2). the design is very similar to the system use by avet. remove the pawl assemblies, starting with the pawl screws (key #930-1201). take careful note of the orientation of the pawls (key #'s 201 and 201-1) and the pawl springs (key #217). you will have to re-install them soon!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_47_11_2.jpeg)
remove the left (key #723-2) and right (key #723-1) side silent springs. doing so will "enlarge" the circle at the base of these springs. they may have to be "tightened" later.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_47_15_3.jpeg)
remove the c-clip (key #1901-0023) for the silent spring bushing.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_47_20_4.jpeg)
remove the silent spring bushing (key #723).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_48_36_0.jpeg)
remove the four hold plate screws (key #930-605).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_48_40_1.jpeg)
remove the hold plate (key #207).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_48_46_2.jpeg)
remove the hold plate bushing (key #215) and note its proper orientation.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_48_50_3.jpeg)
remove the low speed drive gear (key #700-1) and note its proper orientation.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_48_53_4.jpeg)
remove the drive gear washer (key #920-412).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_50_09_0.jpeg)
remove the high speed drive gear (key #700) and note its proper orientation.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_50_12_1.jpeg)
all that work just to take a look at the right main side plate bearing (key #910-443). let's see if our efforts were necessary.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_50_15_2.jpeg)
this bearing measures 10x22x6mm and is stamped EZO SS 6900 RS JAPAN. as i suspected. poorly greased on one side only.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_50_17_3.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_50_19_4.jpeg)
let's pack it with yamaha blue grease and get this reel back together.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_51_20_0.jpeg)
add a little grease to the bearing cup first, then push the bearing into place.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_51_24_1.jpeg)
install the high speed drive gear (key #700).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_51_27_2.jpeg)
install the drive gear washer (key #920-412).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_51_30_3.jpeg)
install the low speed drive gear (key #700-1).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_51_36_4.jpeg)
install the hold plate bushing (key #215).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_52_49_1.jpeg)
install the hold plate (key #207).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_52_52_2.jpeg)
install the hold plate screws (key #930-605).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_52_55_3.jpeg)
install the silent spring bushing (key #723).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_52_59_4.jpeg)
install the c-clip (key #1901-0023).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_54_05_0.jpeg)
install the right (key #723-2), then the left (key #723-1), side silent spring. if they do not properly "grab" the silent spring bushing (key #723), they may have to be "tightened."
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_54_10_1.jpeg)
install both anti-reverse pawl bushings (key #211).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_54_13_2.jpeg)
install both anti-reverse pawl springs (key #217).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_54_17_3.jpeg)
install both anti-reverse pawl assemblies (key #'s 201 and 201-1).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_54_20_4.jpeg)
engage the silent springs (key #'s 723-1 and 723-2) with the pawls (key #'s 201 and 201-1), then install the pawl screws (key #930-1201).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_55_30_1.jpeg)
make sure the silent springs work properly.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_55_39_2.jpeg)
it the silent springs do not work properly, remove them and tighten the loop.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_55_27_0.jpeg)
install the high speed (key #702) and low speed (key #702-1) pinion gears as a unit.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_55_44_3.jpeg)
install the spool assembly (key #400) as a unit.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_55_47_4.jpeg)
install the main shaft pin (key #717) and align it vertically. almost forgot about that one, huh!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_57_05_0.jpeg)
install the right side plate and spool as a unit into the frame.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_57_11_2.jpeg)
install the right side plate screws (key #'s 930-1194 and 930-1193), remember that the short side plate screw (key #930-1194) goes at the 12 o'clock postion.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_57_13_3.jpeg)
with the drag lever (key #605) in the "free" position, install the drag knob assembly (key #600). it only screws in one way.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_57_16_4.jpeg)
now give the spool a spin. simply holding the reel in my left hand and spinning the spool with my right, i was able to get the spool to spin for 2 minutes and 55 seconds. that should be compared to the 45 second freespool time when i pulled this reel straight out of the box. this freespool time would most certainly be longer if the spool was loaded with line.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_58_25_0.jpeg)
done!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_16_02_10_10_58_27_1.jpeg)
ok, now for a few comments. for years now, i have been looking for the same thing in a fishing reel .........
greased carbon fiber drag washers - look, everyone, anyone, who has been following the evolution of fishing reels in the last 10 years, has seen the steady march of companies that have been changing over to greased carbon fiber drag washers. they last forever. it makes me, and should make you, question the judgement of a company or an individual that does NOT use this system. look, guys, the carbon fiber washers are NOT that much more expensive. and it takes an extra 30 seconds to properly grease it. notice that i said "properly." you need to cover the front, the back AND the sides.
grease on all of the non-exposed metal surfaces and screws - i don't care if you use type I, II III, or X anodizing. if there is a single internal patch of metal that is not coated with grease, it will corrode through. i know that companies are concerned with the possibility of screws backing out, but it is my opinion that loctite is not the answer. corrosion anywhere is bad and the only way to avoid corrosion is grease. so then we need to make sure that these greased screws do not back out. that means you have to torque them down to a certain standard. that also means coarse thread screws.
non-spool bearings - these are the bearings that do not affect freespool, but they do affect the ease with which you crank the handle when it is not under a load. so who really cares about that? no one! these bearings need to be packed with grease through and through, then they need to be properly shielded or sealed. such a bearing will last forever. it is salt water intrusion that causes a bearing to fail. if there are air gaps in a shielded bearing, water will find its way in. the shields will trap the water and the bearing will fail. i see it a thousand times a year. why else would boca bearings be making so much money?
spool bearings - this one depends. if you need freespool, the bearings have to lubed with something, anything, that's light. the xtreme reel + gives the best freespool time. standard corrosion x or reel x will work fine, as well as metaloil, quantum hot sauce, rocket fuel or anything. these bearings have to be open. water can easily intrude, and if you have a shielded bearing these shields will hold the water and the bearing will fail immediately. without shields, at least the water can get out. the bottom line is that spool bearings will not last forever unless have a shielded bearing that is packed with grease. you'll have zero freespool, but that will be ok for trolling.
an over-sized offset handle - if you've never tried one of these, you're in for a treat. tiburon's patent covers offsets from 10 to 25 degrees. the 9 degree offset is used by avet, accurate and pete kolekar and they are street legal. this information has been available for years, so a handle with a zero degree offset will get dinged with minus points. one more thing. the grip has to have a large enough diameter. somewhere between 1 and 1/8th inch at the very least, but 1 and 1/4 inch is the diameter is best.
so in evaluating these reels, it's pretty much a given that they will initially perform as advertised. i have no problem with that. the issue is longevity. a reel that delivers on all of the aforementioned points will receive an A+. the grade will decrease for each feature that is found missing or lacking, from A+ to A to A- to B+ to B to B-. you see the pattern. so here goes......
accurate - the accurate ATD 50 is $1400. i know, i paid full retail for one. it has greased carbon fiber drag washers and grease in the screw holes and all the non-exposed metal surfaces. the spool bearings are shielded and oiled (ding), the non spool bearings are shielded, oil inside and smeared with grease on the outside (ding), and the handle grip has a zero degree offset (ding). final grade is a B+.
avet - the larger reels have a handle grip with a 9 degree offset, but there are plenty of dry surfaces inside the reel (ding), the non-spool bearings are sealed and poorly greased or dry (ding), the spool bearings are open on the inside but sealed on the outside and can still retain water (ding), and the drags are dry (ding, ding, ding, ding !!!!!!!). final grade is a B.
okuma - you just saw the makira 50 two speed. it has a large offset handle grip from tiburon, it has corrosion x HD on all the non-exposed metal surfaces, grease on all but a few of the screws and a greased carbon fiber drag washer. the spool bearings are shielded and inadequately greased (ding) and the non-spool bearing are the same (ding). final grade is an A-.
penn - the v series internationals have gone through a series of design changes and the final product is very nice, and it has a greased carbon fiber drag waher. unfortunately, the spool bearings are shielded and oiled (ding), the side plate bearings are shielded and half greased (ding), there are plenty of dry spots in the reel to corrode (ding) and the handle grip does not have an offset (ding). final grade is a B.
shimano - currently, it is my opinion that the tiagra is the most reliable of the large two speed lever drags coming straight out of the box, but there is still room for improvement. it has an oddly shaped handle that will qualify as offset, so we're good there. the spool bearings are open and greased, but the freespool is adequate enough. you won't get 4 minutes of freespool, but not everyone in the world need 4 minutes of freespool. the working surface of the carbon fiber drag washer is greased, but the BACK IS NOT!!! this allows for salt corrosion to build up underneath the drag washer and the uneven surface that is created will cause the drags to stick (ding). there are plenty of dry spots in the reel to accumulate corrosion (ding). the side plate bearings are open and greased. they last longer than side plate bearings that are shielded and oiled, but they still do not have the longevity that i believe is needed. these bearings are good, but they will still fail (ding). final grade is a B+.
the other reels, daiwa, alutecnos, everol, and finnor, i do not have enough experience with, but i doubt that we would find an "A" or an "A+" in this group.
a few of you know that i am also a teacher. classroom dynamics never cease to amaze me. you have the smart kids, you have the slow kids, you have the bullies, and you have the ones that think they can slide by on looks alone. then you have the ones that are quiet, the ones that are constantly getting picked on, but have some real potential. with hard work and a little recognition, these kids can really shine. that's what i think about okuma and what they have done with their makira. their attention to detail is what i find most impressive. it is the level of quality that i would expect from an accurate costing more than twice as much. for the slackers in the class, the ones that think that "toyota" quality is good enough, i am more than happy to give out mediocre grades.
i believe that okuma would benefit if they would pay more attention to their bearings. if they do, i would be happy to finally give out an "A+!!!" alan
Quote from: lite-linerGreat report Alan! As usual, your review is objective & substantive. Very refreshing. One small thing regarding the moval/installation of the A/R silent springs. it seems to me you can avoid the "bending" by removing the springs & bushing as an assembly after taking off the pawls & bushing C-clip. There's no way I would have spotted this if not for your detailed photo's. this has definately opened my eyes to Okuma, but real world action is gonna be the true test.
you know, i was looking at that yesterday and thinking the same damned thing!
Quote from: Fish Slayer;1669034
Danny, The Cedros series features the same internal system as the Makaira with the patented DFD drag system, proprietary anti-reverse system, same anodizing and 17-4 grade stainless steel components. The main difference between the Makaira and the Cedros is the lack of the 2 speed function on the Cedros. As this reel was also designed for throwing jigs and vertical jigging it features a round shaped handle knob compared to the T-bar handle on the Makaira. The Cedros is also a 6.2:1 gear ratio with 42.5" of line retrieve on the 10/15 sizes. We landed several Blue fin tuna in the 120 to 180-lbs range vertical jigging on the CLD-10S up in Massachusetts. See the thread for images on this trip Tuna Report East Coast Bluefin Tuna California style. John
Hello,
I took your advice Alan and ordered a Makaira 15 II.
It should arrive tomorrow. ;D
Will that break down the same as this tutorial on the 50 II ?
Also, in this tutorial you pointed out that all the inside surfaces were coated with corrosion x already. Did you leave it at that? Or should you slap some more Yammy on the interior surfaces? (I know the bearings will be done)
Thanks,
It should. If you need the schematics to study in advance, here you go http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1687.0.
Anyone know how to remove the arm from the shaft. I am in the process of making a longer arm on my Makaira 20. The arm will on come off the shaft. What gives?
JL
i neglected to do that in this post. i have another reel and will correct that omission. stand by.......
Alan:
I figured it out. The handle actually screws onto the shaft. Now I need to find out the size of the hole and thread pitch so I can get the proper tap to make the new arm.
JL
Hello,
As I read this post over and over in preparation to opening up my new MK15,
a couple of questions.
As noted the key washer bearing can be greased without opening it up with the bearing packer. My question is; with the bearing packer, is pumping just until grease comes out the other side enough? Or do you pump pump pump to try to force out the original grease?
Also, the Okuma literature describes "Custom designed thrust bearing: Alleviates side load on heavy drag settings." What's customed ? Is the bearing itself special?
Lost me on that part.
As always,
Thanks
yes, the thrust bearing is a special design. packing any ball bearing, you just keep on pumping until you see grease squeeze out the sides. you don't have to force out the original grease (though i usually do), just fill all the voids to prevent water intrusion. alan
Hi Alan
I won 2 by 2011's a few months ago, I was going to use them weekend just gone, and partially opened one up to check on factory greasing. You know what I found, so put them back in the box. I've just found this tutorial, so they'll get a full service as per the above. Thanks for sharing this info (along with all of the others), kind regards Steve, Cairns, Australia
I have the 80w 2 speed Makaira.
i pulled the drag lever to full and the gears hit the silent spring assembly.
bending one of the springs so that when the handle was turned it made a nasty grinding sound. :-\
an easy fix but i personally think that spring system needs to be refined a little
otherwise i have found no other flaws, great reel!
Quote from: MetroFail on November 29, 2012, 02:29:13 PM
I have the 80w 2 speed Makaira.
i pulled the drag lever to full and the gears hit the silent spring assembly.
bending one of the springs so that when the handle was turned it made a nasty grinding sound. :-\
an easy fix but i personally think that spring system needs to be refined a little
otherwise i have found no other flaws, great reel!
All i gotta say is why do you need 100lbs of drag? Regular fishing(for anything besides tuna and sharks) why do you need more than 50lbs?
Good on ya mate I have a bunch of Makairas and they are well put together reels. Have an 80 that dosent get used all that much but so far no problems. As to the last post why have a reel with that much drag? Well he obviously hasn't fished Kona for Blue Marlin with a 900lb fish down deep and the 130 tackle on sunset. Thats why you need a reel with mega drag. Hey don't knock it just because it not your cup of tea.
No true that, i definately dont need that much drag at all.
40-70lb is far far more than enough for my needs. i got one for kite fishing because of the massive line capacity.
well im sure 100lb drag, provided i didnt get pulled over board, would be great for something huge, 1000lb++
its just when i was setting it, a friend pushed the drag lever to full, on a way overset drag position and damaged the silent spring assembly.
The idea was to point out the issue incase anyone else experiences such problems. or by reading this prevents this in advance.
Sorry for any confusion
Alan,
I have a couple 50W ATD's and the drag cam on them does not really allow me to effectively "chunk" and strip line out with 3-4lbs of drag. I set them at 25 lbs at strike and as soon as I put the drag at its minimum, it is over 9 lbs. tough to hand line feed chunks while yellowfin fishing or even creep a lure back in the troll spread without going all the way to free spool. So my question after all of that is...is the Makaira better set up for a wider range of drag on the cam? I am looking at an addition to the collection and really like what I am reading on the Mak 50W
it's all a function of the shape of the cam. the interesting thing about the accurate is that you can pull the cam and file it down.. you have to get it right the first time, though. if you file it down to much, it will have to be replaced.
I have the MK50II narrow version and used it for sharking in the NE last season. If I set strike at 35lbs the first ~2+" of drag is very gradual and will do what you want. From position 3 to strike (~1") there is a steep increase in drag. This can be a little tricky when you want to back off the drag under pressure. If you drop down below position 3 this can result in a backlash - don't ask me how I know. My Tiagras are much more foregiving in this regard but there is no doubt the Makaira has superior cranking power and a smoother, more powerful drag.
X2 on the drag curves. On the MK10,20, 30 the drag curves are very shallow between free and #1 position and gets steep after # 2 to striike and shallows out again between strike and full. The MK 50 is a larger capacity than your ATD 50.
What I am finding is that if you set strike near max spec the drag will be 1-3# when you bring the lever back half way between free and #1. There will always be some drag until you hit free. This works out very well as it is easy to let line out without back lashing the reel. The other thing is the MK holds the settings and are easily adjustable between free ans #1 position. No fear of the reel jumping into free spool by accident.
In regards to the Accurates the cams are significantly different between the older models and the newer ones. I don't know if the newer cams will fit the older models. A call to Accurate might shed some light on this. If you do decide to modify the cam the area just out of the free spool detent notch is the area you will need to modify. Lower it and take the steepness out of it and do it symmetrically to both sides (it is a double pin cam). You will need to do a lot of trial and test to get it just right. Check with Accurate to make sure replacement cams are available just in case you over do the mod. You can also adjust a step in it so the 'pre free spool' has a flat area with a fixed setting or you can notch it so you will have a detent for that position to make it easy to locate during use (I feel all reels should have a detent for this position and some do have a button for that).
Jim N.
What is the clicker like on these reels?
I do a bit of land based shark fishing and during long nights I sleep near my reel.
The Tiagras have a good loud clicker and wake you up no problem, what about these?
Also, I like to fish with reel with about 14kg at strike.
While I'm waiting for a take, I like to keep my drag with only a couple of kilos
This is nice and light but still stops the current pulling out line.
Will I be able to do this with this reel?
about average......
The guys that are wondering about the steep drag, why don't you just get the TDC (tournament drag cam)?
I got the drag curves sent to me directly from Okuma US and they look almost identical to the Tiagra's.
I know the Australian model comes with the standard (steep) drag cam installed and the TDC included in the box.
i have got a makaira 50wii today i don't know ho to adjust the drag cam properly , i.e: straight of the box even if the cam on 6 position the drag is very low that if the clicker is engaged the spool don't move except on strike position and more , on 7 & 8 positions the drag is much larger but also weak !!! i tried to torque the cam one more round but i lose free spool on 1 position, can any one help me with that
leave the lever in the free position and then spin the spool. while the spool is spinning, gradually turn the preset knob clockwise until the spool stops, then back it off about 360 degrees. now gently push the lever forward and measure the drag. figure out what drag you have and what drag you need and adjust accordingly. can you get a scale, measure the drags and let us know what kind of numbers you get?
thanks alan for your quick reply :) , i've done this, the spool stopped spinning at 4 position where the drag lever was very stiif so i was afraid to destroy the bearing i backed the knob of 360 degrees so it's on 4 again , the drag is weak , bus does this 4 means the first position (1) and when the spool stops this is (8) (maximum drag with free spool) ? if this is true, i won't be able to move the drag lever on maximum drag..
can you fine a preset position that will give you 25 to 30 pounds of drag?
thanks alan for you reply, i dicovered where the problem is, the drag increase is not gradual concerining the lever or the preset cam , i get most of the drag when the lever is between 3 and strike, and there is a grat difference between 6 and 7 and between 7 and 8 , i've contacted the tackle shop and he told me that this way , every thing functions properly , he told me that if i need a gradual increase for IGFA lines, i shoul get a tournament drag cam which is not available here in egypt he told me he will check with the distributer if he can get me 1 , but regardless this issue , this reel is exceptionally amazing , really well built with smooth drag and powerful cranking :)
thanks alan
mohamed hashem
mohamed, i hope things are quieter in alexandria than they are in cairo..... :-[
actually thngs are much quieter in cairo and alexandria than what t.v announces , pro morsy protesters are very few now, about a thousand or two , the army protects them and protects the public facilities from them , all the people in egypt support the army to keep the country safe , this is not a millitary coup this is a revolution, btw i'm from cairo not alexandria :)
where ever you are, just stay safe. and if you can post photos of these events safely, i'm sure we would all love to see what is going on in your country from a first person perspective. i would never try to interject politics into this humble website. it's just that the events unfolding in your country right now are of historic proportions.
thanks alan for your concern :)
tis video is taken from an aeroplane on june 30 for the revolution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvpb8bOZp9Y
things are quite now after morsi is gone but just some few people from the brother hood are protesting till now and the new government is negotiating with them and the army protects them
back to the reel drag :
i'm really confused !!!!! ???
i tighten the preset knob untill i lose free spool , the preset at that time is on 4 position and i have compelete free spool at 3 about 50 seconds , should the 3 be the max drag preset position or the 8 before it (anticlock wise) !!!
at the 8 before it i can't get 60 lbs at strike as the reel is said to have but i can get it on the 3 position after the 8 (clock wise direction)!!
and can anyone who have makaira 50 please tell me the drag numbers at different preset positions??
i finally figured out which numbers you are talking about. the numbers on the preset dial do not indicate a specific drag amount. they are merely there as a reference. they could just as easily be letters or random symbols. you simply need to note the pounds of drag at those settings and keep a note of them somewhere. they should be consistent, day to day when you are fishing.
thank you very much alan , now i get 60 pounds of drak at strike on number 2(preset) and stil have free spool(more than 50 seconds) then tish will be my maximum drag preset??
that sounds very high. can you set the drag to 30 pounds at strike, then measure your full setting and tell me what that is? i would normally not ever recommend a 60# strike setting on one of these reels.
thanks alan :)
i won't ever set drag to 60 on strike i was just testing the drag ability to wxert the listed drag i'll fish 130 lbs spectra with 120 lbs mono topshot so ithink my drag setting will be in 30 to 40 range at most , and i'll test the drag on full and i'll let you know :)
but sorry i don't understand why don't recommend 60# at strike for this reel , is it beacause the reel itself or normally don't make this with any reel??
i don't even think that any body can put 60# on a fish as the hook will be pulled and knots must break down
i saw some guys on youtube fighting a hammerhead with makaira 80w with 103 lbs of drag and it was still pulling line the until the knot slips so i think these reels are capable of standing the stated drag numbers or what do you think?? however i'll never do this.
search for (Okuma Makaira 80w in MAX DRAG) on youtube.
do you think that the reel components and frame can't stand this large drag force?
the reel might be able to handle this load, i don't think the fisherman could, at least for very long.
thanks alan , i'll never try 60 pounds of drag on a standup :) i don't want to get pulled overboard :)
ghello everybody
i've tried this reel on BFT up to 400 lbs without problems up to 45 lbs drag was applied and the drag was very smooth and stable but after i checked this thread to service it and do some lubrication i noticed that the thickness of the right side plate is very thin compared to the left one or to any other reel , does this thickness make any difference or any problem i recently baught a penn 50 vsw it's great too but a bit heavier , but the thickness of both is the same.
it should work fine. the plates just need to not shear under a load. i will be going to puerta vallarta in a week. the drag at strike for these reels will be 35 pounds to start.
Quote from: alantani on March 11, 2014, 06:48:33 PM
it should work fine. the plates just need to not shear under a load. i will be going to puerta vallarta in a week. the drag at strike for these reels will be 35 pounds to start.
good luck alan :) be strong for this drag :)
Hi guys,
very informative reel breakdown Alan.Have recently bought a 50w and 80w here in australia and also will have my eye on the std 50 once I have used these a while. Mine won't be going anywhere near saltwater until they have had the royal treatment like you have shown. The dry bearings were a real eye opener for me. I have been a tld,tiagra man in the past but really like the feel of these and their compact design in the bigger sizes so I decided to give these a chance.After reading your reviews on these it helped me to make up my mind.
Here in australia guys are reluctant to try something that are not proven and most boats will have tiagras or a similar proven reel on them. Okuma australia also offer a lifetime warranty too which is pretty special.Also found it interesting that the MK SEa model was so well prepared for use straight out of the box too,cheers.
regards tacklerat
They will not disappoint you.
Hi guys,
Can anyone shed any light on why the warranty given on the makaira differ from where it was purchased country wise.over here in Australia they are giving them a lifetime warranty. Seeming this is an older thread now and the SEa model has also come out have the bad habits of dry bearings been dealt with during the assembly process,just wondering if anyone knows more,thanks
Regards
it's likely a decision made by the marketing department. :-\
thanks alan,
just thought it was unusual. ???
I asked the same question to Okuma Australia myself and they just replied with "why would we cover the warranty of a reel that wasn't bought here". I was curious as I bought my Makaira 80W from South Africa. With a bit of effort as well as paying $100 in postage on top of the reel cost, it was still less than 2/3 the price I could buy the reel here in Australia.
Hi Guys,
How are people rating these reels 4 years on. I am looking for a 2 speed bottom bashing reel, like the 8 or 10 sized Makaira. It will be an online purchase as in Aus they are asking $799. would you guys rate this reel higher then a 2 speed accurate?
any feed back is appreciated
Ta Ben
mine are still good. some were cracked open and serviced, some were not. can't remember which. i have one out of eight with a rumble. the rest are fine.
I have had and own more than 20 Makairas. The 8, 10, and 15 with the 2.1:1 low are great bottom fishing reels. Also the new Andros "a" 12II will have the 2.1 and will be less weight, and less money. Also the "a" can have a 6.4:1 giving the reel great versatility. Some friends in Mexico charted every day. There Makaira 10's are faded. But I opened one up and was impressed how well the looked. They are greased, and oiled when they have time. They perform as new.
Alan,
Great tutorial on this reel, I have been looking into getting one for awhile and may just have to pick one up after reading. I also really like how you have that list of ratings at the end, would you consider updating that on maybe a yearly basis as new reels come out? Would love to know how your opinions change as manufacturers come out with new innovations.
Thanks!
i was just thinking about that this morning. before okuma made these improvments, there was very little incentive for companies to change. think of a herd of animals all shoulder to shoulder. as long as they all stayed together, they were relatively safe. but get one to break ranks, make a run for it, and suddenly more will do that. so it is with reel manufacturers.
okuma was the first to break ranks with greased carbon fiber drags, corrosion x HD on all the internals surfaces, open spool bearings and non-spool bearings that are packed with grease.
daiwa very quietly changed all their drag washers to greased carbon fiber. the reels are still dry on the inside and bearings are still a problem.
shimano is finally starting to put greased carbon fiber drags in their single speed high end reels. they already had them in their two speed lever drags. bearings are still a problem.
penn is using an odd blue grease. they are coating the insides of their reels and bearings are still a problem.
accurate is greasing their drags and the insides of their reels, but radial bearings are still a problem. AR bearings are also a problem.
avet, ah, avet. dry drags? still? c'mon.......
Good to see they are attempting some change. So do you still feel currently, the Makaira is the only A-?
I have a new mak50 sea where I have managed to break off one of the 6 countersunk screws that hold on the cover plate key 405 my question is this subjected to drag pressure when drag is applied or it just a waterproof cover(and something to bolt the clicker plate onto). I can live with 5 screws to hold the clicker on but will get a new spool if it is subjected to drag pressure.
Hoping someone can help
Regards Gary
you'll be fine! the other five screws will hold without a problem!
Thanks Alan so it does not get loaded with drag pressure, it's just part of the location for the ears on the carbon drag washer ( and something to bolt the clicker plate on - the five remaining screws look much less likely to come out than the 4 tiny screws on my tiagra 30's)
Regards Gary
Alan can you help? After I have removed the waterproof cover,the drag assembly and thrust bearing away from the right side of the spool and removed the clicker ratchet from the left side, will the spool shaft with the two bearings just pull out from the left side? I am replacing a damaged spool
Regards Gary
I just could not live with an imperfect favourite reel
No problem it just pulled out
sorry about not getting back to you right away. glad it worked out.
I guess you were a little busy winding in yellowtail. Congratulations on your successful trip
HI Alan, I just serviced my MAK 8ll and to my surprise the spool bearings on this model have the bearing covers removed so they are OPEN bearings. Yes, the factory man did a good job applying grease to all inside cover surfaces. The drag washer looked pretty dry so I gave it a bath in Cal's Grease and wiped off. I didn't attempt to dig out the right side plate bearing as I have not set up my grease gun and grease(blue) in the bearing packer I bought from you(another project to do yet). This reel was easy to service and guys say "oh you only used it a couple days it should be fine". Well, I found 2 nice sized sardine scales inside the left sideplate cover and now I better get more tape on my right thumb as this reel has great freespool now. I wish I had the time to service this before departing on a 6 day RRlll trip. I have a Penn Torque 25NLD2 torn apart right now also. Different design on the right side plate with double dogs(no spring assemblies like the MAK's). Same type of design on the drag washer plate idea using a couple small screws to secure to the right side of the spool. The reel foot is not screwed into the base like the MAK, it is there permanently. Both reels performed great succumbing yellowtail and schoolie YFT effortlessly. The low gear on the MAK helped in getting a 50# Black Seabass off the ocean floor. Great reels from Penn!
Alan,
It looks like you recommend removing the reel foot gasket on the Makaira. Why do you prefer to remove this gasket?
Thanks,
Smols
To guess at my own question, I assume the gasket makes it more likely that saltwater will get trapped. So it is better to use grease and no gasket?...
Smols
i've always preferred grease and no gasket, but i don't think it's that big a deal..... ;D
Ok, Alan - that's good enough for me. Thanks!
Hey Alan, my mak 50 has been very stiff reeling - smooth but just stiff. Freespool is perfect so i took off the right side and when i got to the holder plate once i loosened it a bit it was perfectly easy again. I went back through your original post and i *think* there's a washer in mine that i didn't see in the original schematics - part 0920507 - that sits between the holder plate bushing and the low speed gear (believe i see it in newer schematics as well). So it seems i can either a) remove that washer or b) loosen up the holder screws. What do you think? Thanks!
There should be a washer between the brass bushing and low gear, but if tolerance is off or spacer washer(s) on the gear shaft assembly were installed in the wrong place you can remove the washer between the gear and bushing to clear tolerance.
Another issue this could occur from is the brass shaft bushing within the sideplate backing out of the sideplate itself, putting pressure on the gear assembly when the hold plate is fastened.
To check this remove the hold plate and gears, see if there is a gap between the side plate and brass bushing. The bushing will need to be removed, fastening adhesive applied and screwed back into position. Older models were held in by adhesive and have no threads, but assume the bushing is threaded to begin.
Quote from: GonefishinLI on August 13, 2020, 01:20:28 PM
Hey Alan, my mak 50 has been very stiff reeling - smooth but just stiff. Freespool is perfect so i took off the right side and when i got to the holder plate once i loosened it a bit it was perfectly easy again. I went back through your original post and i *think* there's a washer in mine that i didn't see in the original schematics - part 0920507 - that sits between the holder plate bushing and the low speed gear (believe i see it in newer schematics as well). So it seems i can either a) remove that washer or b) loosen up the holder screws. What do you think? Thanks!
honestly, i'd have to fiddle with it a little. usually when the reel is a little hard to crank in gear but not in free, it's the pinion bearing. if it's a little stiff in free, it's the silent springs that are a little tight. the silent springs are key #723-1 and 723-2. please check the pinion gear first!
http://schematics.mikesreelrepair.com/albums/okuma/Okuma_Makaira_MK-50WII.pdf
How much 130jb will a mak 50 narrow hold
700 yards of JB hollow and an 25 yard topshot of 130 fluorocarbon.
hi is there a kit to transform a Mk50II with the technical update of the SEA? I would like to buy the mk50 and upgrade it to the SEA version because in Europe the Mk50II sea is not imported.
i do not believe so. you would have to manually go through the schematics and find all the different parts numbers, one at a time, and order them.
there are differences. there is certainly a lower gear ratio for the low gear. there might even be a heavier drive shaft. i have the older gold plain version of the makaira 50 and it works just fine. honestly, i think that it would not be worth the trouble.
Quote from: alantani on November 02, 2022, 05:29:43 PMi do not believe so. you would have to manually go through the schematics and find all the different parts numbers, one at a time, and order them.
there are differences. there is certainly a lower gear ratio for the low gear. there might even be a heavier drive shaft. i have the older gold plain version of the makaira 50 and it works just fine. honestly, i think that it would not be worth the trouble.
Unfortunately in Europe the SEA Mk50II is not imported, damn it !!! I am obliged to buy the MK50II Gold ... do you recommend this reel to me? is the mechanics good?
i've had one since they first came out. been very happy. you'll be fine. go for it!!!!
regarding the MK-20/30 reel popping out of gear. the service tech lead said he would change out key numbers, 517, 204-3, 507-21 and both sets of pinion and drive gears.