Hi, folks, As most know I usually hang out up in reel repairs (Abu) But I needed to skid over to rods, to tell you my good fortune RE the subject above. I do rod and reel repairs for the local sport shops here, and maintain my own gear.
There are occasions when the sport wants out the same day, which is nigh impossible with conventional rod resins. Even Glasscoat takes about 5 hours to set. And Glasscoat went away. Threadmaster 'lite' is close, at about 8 hours.
What to use. I have been using 5 minute resin for about 20 years now, for those quickies. Most of these are like molasses in winter, very slow to pour, and even harder to de-gas.
Enter my latest discovery from the model-building universe: Bob Smith Industries' 5 min resin. This product is a dream to use....it's thinner at room temp to begin with, mixes well, and de-gasses with a lighter, or alcohol lamp before it begins to cure.
It's slightly flexible, and ought to last the same and longer, as the ones I have been using...over 5 years. (I have seen the same rod with a different guide needing replacement 5 yrs later with the first fix still just fine) http://www.bsi-inc.com/ Another bonus is the CAD price.. local resins are running 24.00, while BSI's 15 where I got it. It will be less in the lower 48. Cheers, Ken.
Ken: I watched the video on the Bob Smith Ind. site. It said the 5 minute epoxy was not water proof. Have you run into water proof problems? Dominick
Hi, Dom....the vid and the blurb are indicating do not do a full immersion in water 24/7/365. Rod guides may get a splash of water now and then, but for the most part, are in the air. Whereas I have just begin to use the product I have a test rod outside, that will remain there for a full year. In summer we go to over 80F, and in winter, we get to minus 30F. The blurb also indicates the resin is good on the inside of a boat, which sees water from rain, or splashes also.
As a caveat, I always tell the sport this is a fast repair, to get you fishing same day...and you should be good for years. I also say should the repair fail by season's end, bring it back when it fails, for actual rod resin, (these days, that's threadmaster light), my dime. No-one's come back with the resins I've been using, so I'm thinking BSI will be the same. Cheers, KD.
Hi Ken, et all,
We have been using BSI 5 minute resin for what is locally known as a 'now-now' repair on rod rings (guides), and to date we have had very little problem with this product. And we would concur that it is thinner than most 2 part 5 minute resins we have tried, and easy to get bubbles out, additionally it does dry very clear, unlike a lot that dry yellow.
We have also been using it as our main resin for reel seats, tips and butt buttons, and experience very few problems with it, especially if the surfaces are slightly 'keyed', then it is probably more superior than any of the other resins we have tried. The waterproof issue hasn't appeared to be a problem on our reel seats, and given that some of our clients do a lot of wading with their rods, where the reel seat and reel will be under sea water for a while.
Hope that helps
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
Rodger that, Jeri....whereas Africa is much sunnier and hotter than my bit of the planet, how are you seeing the guides with time on?
All the "nay-sayers" who tout 5 minute epoxy is a glue not a coating, always discount the product as (according to them) it yellows dramatically. For me, I use dark threads on dark rods, no colour preserver for further darkening, so yellowing is a non-starter. Cheers, KD
I use five minute epoxy all the time to mag reels and put together rod handles and it does not come off with water, believe me once it cures it is a pain to remove from reel plates and have never had a rod come back where the handles or seats have ever come loose and when I had my charter boat I always kept 5 min epoxy for guide repairs on the fly. Granted deck hand rods don't have to be pretty they just have to work.
Hi Ken,
As said, we use BSI for all our 'now-now' repairs, especially in the height of our fishing season, when folks come off the beach with a broken ring, and want to fish almost straight away. It is quick, efficient, and doesn't yellow with time.
However, for all our normal custom rods, and repairs that can wait until the following morning, we use a 2 part thread resin. Have been through a lot of the different makes, and now just use one brand that we import from Japan, have found that products like Flexcoat do yellow terribly with age, as well as age harden, and then they start to get small cracks, which salt water gets in and starts to corrode even the best stainless steel.
With all these 2 part resins, apart from the actual colour of the finished product, there are other components in the mix, like UV inhibitors and plasticisers, and depending on the quantities, you get varying finished performance from the final product. A lot of the 2 part 'adhesives' would work as thread coatings, but they are really only effective for single ring repairs, as they dry too quickly.
With 'proper' thread resins, you are actually looking for the resin to do all the adhesive work, the thread is basically only there to hold the ring in place while the resin sets, if the resin is put on right, it soaks through everything, and forms a solid shell around the rod and ring. Although it wouldn't look nice you could use something like super glue to fix the rings in place and the rod performance would still be dead right – ignoring the fact that most 'super glues' are water soluable. The fact is these days the thread is just a decorative band to assist the resin in placement – and holding it in one place while the resin sets. The resin then has to be UV resistant, water proof, crack proof and flexible, as well as strong – but not necessarily super hard.
As for colour sealants, we tend to only use solid colour threads, like the NCP that Gudebrod used to make, avoids all the need for colour preservatives, and the final thread work is just as effective, though with some colours, especially very light colours you might experience some transparency effect when using some of the thread resins, which can then spoil the thread work effect.
As for our part of Africa being hot, that is a common misunderstanding, this particular coast is the coldest part of the tropics in the world. We do get some warm temperatures during the summer days, but rarely above 25 degrees C, we have a huge cold water current running northwards just off our coast, straight up from the Antarctic. We get whale and sometimes Penguins off our coast, while some of the lagoons will have the totally bizarre sight of Penguins in the water right next to Pelican and Flamingoes – a coast of contrasts. On the coast we have 10 degrees of water temperature, and 50km inland we will have total desert conditions with temperatures in the upper 30's C and more!!!
For all our fishing tackle, the UV factor is the greatest worry, as it eats mono fishing line within about 3 months, and even some of the cheaper braids, especially if they have been manufactured with strand other than spectra or dyneema. The same UV factor that damages resin coatings like 'Flexcoat'.
Hope that helps
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
Thanks for the tip I'll have to give that a try
I've been using Flex-coat for a little over a year now, exclusively.. lite build & high build.
I just received my third batch from Mudhole
Now I have never seen UV damage like Fiji UV damage on most everything exposed here! So,
Jeri, you've got me a little concerned now... i'll have to keep an extra eye on the longevity of my repairs.
I also have some Erskine Epoxy finish, but haven't gotten around to trying it.
I'd like to hear what others have to say about their resins of choice and their experience with flex-coat products.
Thanks !
Hi Eric,
The issues with Flexcoat are fairly long standing – as far back as 30 years ago it would start to yellow with time and exposure to heavy UV, and on trying to remove the stuff for a repair or rebuild, it is exceptionally brittle.
They may have changed the formula in the intervening years, as I stopped using it quite a while ago – so I wouldn't worry too much. Just keep a critical eye on older rods, as they may be the ones that yellow.
There are literally hundreds of various rod finishes out there now, and all will have slightly different formulae, some with more UV inhibitors in the recipe, others with less – a lot depends on where the majority of their product is going to be used – if it is mainly trout and freshwater, then they might ease up on the UV inhibitors.
Even with all the rods coming out of China these days, we get to see a lot of different types of resin over the rings – some are very brittle and yellowing, others are quite hard, but flexible, and some are even quite 'soft' when cutting off the threadwork to replace the broken ring. We get a lot of rods through our repair shop, probably every major surf rod manufacturer – and see all sorts of different products.
Used PacBay rod finish for a while until shipping companies decided that it was a 'hazardous material', and started heaping serious surcharges on shipping just to handle a gallon or so of thread resin. It was a pretty good product, have rods over 10 years old that have seen a lot of time exposed to our conditions, and still clear and flexible.
We now import our rod resin from a specialist supplier by sea, so we have to import quite large quantities, and then keep it in cool storage – my wife has donated part of the fridge to storing it. Like all two part resins, they are very temperature sensitive – especially when mixing and using. In the summer months we find that the thread resin mix like water, and is really very easy to use, either thin coats or heavy high build – just with the same product. Later in the year, if we need a thin coat application we gentle warm the mixture in a bowl of hot water, then use it – doesn't affect the overall setting time, just the initial 'thickening', so we have to work a little quicker. Feel sure that there must be an optimum temperature and humidity that all the resins will perform best – you just need to find it, and work in those ranges.
Resins that have had too much heat applied for bursting air bubbles, also have a tendency to turn yellow and go brittle. Folks tend to forget that it is quite a complex chemical reaction taking place, and temperatures during curing are also critical.
Hope that helps.
Cheers from sunny Africa.
Jeri
As far as 2 part resins, I've had better luck with U40 than Flexcoat. The first rod I built I used flex coat and had issues with it to the point I almost gave up rod building. Someone suggested I try U40 and I've been using it for years and have been happy with the results.
Thanks for the feedback guys..
I'll keep an extra eye on how the Flex coat holds up.
and maybe give the U40 a go next time.
Still kind of on topic, I ran into an interesting repair this morning.
This rod just came in for repair, I can't find ANY info on it googling.
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/SANY1085_zpsfbc4bd4d.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/SANY1085_zpsfbc4bd4d.jpg.html)
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/SANY1087_zpse9582e33.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/SANY1087_zpse9582e33.jpg.html)
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/SANY1088_zps220c9b18.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/SANY1088_zps220c9b18.jpg.html)
It appears to have generic Fuji MNSG Sic guides (at least the frame is a perfect match, minus the Fuji stamp. and the ring is thicker)
The weird thing is, this was the easiest wrap I've ever removed, the "epoxy" is like a soft plastic and peeled right away down to the under wrap. AND the thread seems to be plastic or rubber like... not at all like an epoxy coated nylon thread..the bare thread seems to leap towards a flame and instantly melts to a ball. ???
Normally, I would just peel off the overwrap and guide, leaving the under wrap & trim bands intact. wrap a new guide on it and coat.
usually most people can't even tell i've changed a guide.
This has me stumped... are there some new products out there I'm not aware of?
Is this just an el cheapo popping rod with no name components?
and most importantly:
Will my epoxy react with this unknown resin and create a mess and more work...
I really don't want to redo the under wrap & trim bands. I'm almost out of black thread and it'll be a few weeks before my order shows up.
Whaddaya guys think?
Cheers!
Hi Eric,
There a good number of companies out there copying Fuji guides, so you have just come across a mimic. It is amazing the number of folks that don't know that Fuji are so proud of their product that they put their name on the rings.
As to the resin, compatability is a difficult issue, unless you test. Try a small spot on some other section of resin, leave it to cure, then you will have your answer.
Hope that helps
Jeri
Jeri, Thanks for that mate.
More perplexing to me... Have you ever come across any plastic or rubberlike thread before?
There's no way this thread is nylon... it stretches! .... weird...
Hi Eric,
From the looks of the pictures, this is a typical product made in China, and if it has 'replica rings', and all the lovely stick on vinyl decorations at the base of the rod, then it is most probably a very cheap rod.
The fact they seem to have used a very 'elastic' thread, is also a cheap alternative. Though the truth is, that thread is only there as a temporary hold for the ring before the resin, and for decorative purposes.
I haven't come across an 'elastic' thread yet, but plenty of 'soft' resins, as well as very hard and brittle resins. The ideal is to get something in between soft and brittle – hard but flexible is the key.
Hope that helps.
Cheers from sunny Africa.
Jeri
Thanks for the tip Ken. May be good to have on an extended fishing trip with some spare guides.
Quote from: Bryan Young on January 14, 2014, 04:15:16 PM
Thanks for the tip Ken. May be good to have on an extended fishing trip with some spare guides.
X2 Bryan. Guys, it would be wise to take that cue from Ken & Bryan. Consider Alan, he's the long range spare parts master.
Ready for any reel problem that may arise... so why not be prepared to save your (or a friends)favorite rod when you're out there.
Spare guides wouldn't be a big investment, nor would the 5min epoxy. Great tip !
And it beats the use of duct tape. :D
Quote from: Bryan Young on January 14, 2014, 08:54:13 PM
And it beats the use of duct tape. :D
Oh, Higher Power, give me strength !!!! I just did a re-wrap where the sport used duckt tape... he made a strand 1/8 wide, and went for it, about 10 layers. To the size of olives each side of the guide. It took me a very long time to remove the gooey adhesive. Kinda like chewing gum in someone's hair.....But at least he got to keep fishing for the rest of his trip !!
One more thing to go in the rod bag!
Ron
This is the result of pulling up 17,6LB!!! weight....
Shakespeare tidewater BTW 60 Sunr 1.83m Medium Heavy (40-130Lb line)...
What i did wrong? I bought this rod 4 or 5 years ago and never used it..Till ..today's test..
Any sugestions how it can be.. repeared?
Thank you...
(http://i055.radikal.ru/1406/46/554a76caf476.jpg)
(http://s52.radikal.ru/i137/1406/cd/be2702f62ab7.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)
Wow. Unlucky. Any repair at that place on a skookum rod as this, is experimental,, could fail on the first bottom snag, or fish. The fastest and cheapest way is to install a re-enforced metal ferrule. Measure the blank in both inch and metric....ferrules could be sold in millimeters, or 64's, depending on the supplier. Today's digital calipers have a dual setting, and can be had for under 10.00 shipped, from the eeb, eh? Invaluable for all phases of rodwork. The O'Quinn link from the FAOL appears to apply to light duty projects, and may not apply to yours, but it's good info all the same. Unsure if you could find suitable donor bits, which is why I suggested you use a ferrule. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
http://tinyurl.com/nw4xn2u
http://www.mudhole.com/Rod-Building/Ferrules
http://flyanglersonline.com/features/rodrepair/index.php
Thank you a lot for your information, Ken_D!
The only repair I can see for that is a removal of all components and re install on a new blank. If you aren't a wrapper then a new rod would probably be cheaper, but you could end up with a nice rod.
Ron
Ok, got it...
My next question to ALL is simple-how i can be sure, that my new rod with the line test up to 100LB would easily hold 17lb weight?
p.s i have casting rod 2.10m (6.8' ) 100-400gr. bait test and line test 30LB... It holds 3,31LB weight...But if i add more weight it might be broken.and the weight would be far away from 30 LB..
Thanks..
Looking for a possible replacement..
Penn Overseas Pro 212 (2,10m., 50lb)-will it fit for a fish with the weight 22LB?
Quote from: Bryan Young on January 14, 2014, 04:15:16 PM
Thanks for the tip Ken. May be good to have on an extended fishing trip with some spare guides.
My portable repair kit (12" long tool box) has reel and rod fixit stuff. The rod fixings are some 5-minute epoxy, 2-hour epoxy, A and D thread,a fly-tying bobbin, spare guides and tiptops, JB Weld and some other goodies.
My brother-in-law was setting out for a trip when he noticed one of his s/s guide rings had a broken weld on one side and barely connected on the other. JB Weld to the rescue! I mixed up some JB Weld, repaired his guide and let it sit overnight. Can't tell it's there (cuz it's gray) and the guide is strong as an ox. 8)
I love JB Weld. Dominick
One advantage I've noticed to using "Color Preserver" under the epoxy is if you ever need to repair that spot again, it makes removing the epoxy easier and potentially less damaging to the rod.
I just 'repaired' a rod with 5 out of 6 guides that had rusted out; every one pulled up the rod blank finish when removing the epoxy and thread. This required filling with 5 minute epoxy and sanding, then a re-finish to make the rod look right, before putting the new set of guides on.
If it had the color preserver under the epoxy, I don't think it would have lifted the finish the way it did.
This is I know an older thread, but in the past few seasons for quickie guide fix-it jobs after the wrap I've used MinWax latex poly. It dries in a few minutes so in a half hour 4 to 6 coats are possible. It's milky and weird looking out of the can but dries clear. It's a retro look as you can see the threads when it's done. So far on my tackle patched this way no fails.
At sea I've done quickie re-wraps with a light nylon twine starting with a clove hitch and continuing with more hitches passing the line under itself cinching up each hitch tightly until the foot is covered. I like to leave about a quarter inch tag in each end that I'll set on fire with a BIC, smooshing it out with the metal tip as the flame reaches the wrap to lock it. The stretch of the light nylon binds it tightly if you cinch it hard on each hitch. Works on old split metal reel seats too.
Has anyone used Solarez UV cure epoxy for emergency rod repair? Thanks.