Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Senator Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: Legal Bill on January 16, 2014, 07:22:29 PM



Title: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Legal Bill on January 16, 2014, 07:22:29 PM
Like Mulder said, "I want to believe."  I want to believe I can mod my 113s and 115s to be stronger, tougher and better than a lot of modern big game reels.  But I'm having trouble with the Senator forum.  I can't find a thread that goes through the mods by the numbers.  Some talk about pinion gears, some talk about drag stacks, some talk about double dogs, some talk about "tanking" (what the hell is tanking?).  There are stainless steel replacement parts, there are bigger handles, there are different gear ratios.  Are there different pinion shafts?  I'm not even sure.  I just can't follow it all.  If I want to do any of this stuff, where do I get the parts?

In the other Penn forums, Alan did a thread that takes you through the mods based on best bang for the buck.  Is there anything like that for the Senator forum?  Anything that tells the reader where he can get the parts?

I want to believe...


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Chris Gatorfan on January 16, 2014, 08:08:04 PM
I'll start by saying that the Senators are one of the easiest reels to work on. However there are different tweaks you can do to them to make them stronger all around.

1. You can contact Alan Tani about getting a new stainless steel sleeve with a SS Dog and the CF washer to go under the main gear. He sells these as a set with outstanding prices on them.

2. Contact Dawn - SmoothDrag - to get the CF Drag washers for your specific reel

(Those 2 steps should be your first priorities if cost at this time is an option. If not then continue on...)

3. I went with a second SS Dog on my reel at this point. Gives you the back-up support should one of your AR Dogs give way. Should be able to get a second from Alan, or you can either pm Keta for one, or go to mysticparts.com.

(The next steps can be done either way)

4. Next would be to look into getting a new SS gear set for your reel. Black Pearl has great deals on these and amazing quality on there parts.

5. Now look into getting a nice power handle. Alan and Keta both carry these, as well as SmoothDrag, MysticParts, and BlackPearl.

6. Lastly is the frame. Finding a good solid Half or full frame should round you out for strength upgrades. Broadway (Dom) has some half frames for the 115 coming any day now. Black Pearl has some full frames for the 115 coming soon and you can always check the web (eBay, etc.) to find some also.

I hope this helps.

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Shark Hunter on January 16, 2014, 08:51:31 PM
The problem is Bill, All the modifications never come at the same time. They are ideas of the members here and each makes his own parts. The term Tank was made by a member here that tricked out a 113H with all the mods available and it is nicknamed the Tank. There is no one stop shopping here. It takes time, research and getting to know everyone here to get it done. This is not a store. Its a group of dedicated people that can guide you through your reel building, fixing and modifications. Now, You say you have 113's and 115's, are the 113's H models? These are high speed models with red side plates. If you have a regular 113 or 115, they have Black side plates. We can start there.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: alantani on January 16, 2014, 08:56:56 PM
pretty much as above.  

first, a complete tear down and rebuild, getting a light coat of grease on all the metal surfaces.  an old toothbrush works here, along with any grease you want to use.  it's less important what grease you use, just as long as you use something.  

second, grease the 5 drags inside the main gear and replace the fiber washer with a carbon fiber drag washer.  

third, the handle.  of course, i like my 5/0 grip the best.  lee and i both make stainless steel arms.  

fourth, the stainless steel gear sleeve.  i have this farther down the line, because it's hard to round off the soft brass gear sleeve if you have properly greased drag washers.  may as well replace the brass dog with a stainless steel dog at this point.

fifth, a hardened stainless steel main and pinion gear.  

sixth, a frame.  

with any reel, i would go for the first three mods without hesitation.   i would only go with the last three if i had trouble, or if i knew i was going to get into some.  at the very least. do the first two.   ;D


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: alantani on January 16, 2014, 08:58:34 PM
i will sticky this later.  thanks for asking!  alan


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Chris Gatorfan on January 16, 2014, 09:15:50 PM
Wow guess i have learned alot more then i let on...Thanks on the sticky, glad i could contribute some good info to a new member.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Lensters on January 17, 2014, 02:51:00 AM
Bill,

I'm new here too, though I started working on reels in the '80s.  Just spent the last 12 hours reading, mostly about Senator upgrades.  Search this forum for "The Tank" and you will find two of the most useful threads you'll read.

Len


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Irish Jigger on January 17, 2014, 03:56:47 AM
Welcome aboard Len.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: BMITCH on January 17, 2014, 03:59:38 AM
Welcome Len!


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Legal Bill on January 17, 2014, 08:12:14 AM
Thanks for all the responses.  Chris, I appreciate the time that was taken to lay it all out for me.  That post was a great start for me. And wow, i can't beleive I started a thread that Alan saw fit to pin!!!

I appreciate that this isn't a store and I regret if I seemed to be complaining.  I was just confused and really was not sure what mods are needed to allow other mods on a Senator.  For example, improving the drags and getting a biggger handle...does that require the stainless steel sleeve?  Thanks for addressing that above, Alan.  As also mentioned above, the parts seem to be available from different sources, and I'm just not sure how they work together.  Like the stainless steel gears and the hex drag washers.

Shark Hunter, my 113s are U.S made HSPs with red side plates.  I opriginally bought them to wire line for stiped bass, but they seem too powerful for that limited use.  Last season I hooked a big false albacore on one of them and had a blast fighting that fish.  It made me think the 113s could be moded to fight tunoids.  My 115s are much more recent Chinese made with black side plates.  I'd like to do what i could to them to improve their quality and reliability.  When I go off shore, it is possible that I could run into a good size yellowfin or bigeye tuna.  I have been watching Dom's thread about the one piece frames very closely.

Len, I did a search for the word Tank and the threads I found mostly started with work that someone was doing to their "tanked" reel.  I guess I'll look again.  Thanks.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Chris Gatorfan on January 17, 2014, 08:48:28 AM
Bill its nothing just glad i could help. you can do the drag upgrade and larger handle first. just keep in mind the the more pressure you have on the reel the more of a chance to start rounding off the brass, which is the reason we do the SS upgrade for the sleeve on them. The 9/0 sleeve kits can be had from Alan for $38.00. Very good price for a very worthy upgrade. and with the CF and metal drag washers for a for a 5+1 drag stack from Smooth Drag at $27.00, you would be set to tackle some nice fish.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: alantani on January 17, 2014, 08:50:04 AM
the stainless steel gear sleeves are most critical for the reels "in the middle."  

the squidders are so small and the drag settings are so light that a stainless steel gear sleeve is often not needed unless you are going to seriously lean hard on the reel.  then you walk a fine line, because if you exceed the capacities of a soft brass squidder gear sleeve using by using stainless, then the softer brass dogs and maganese/bronze allow main gears can quickly give out.  

the 113h, 114, 114h and 115 gear sleeves are also heavy enough that the brass gear sleeve should do the job.  as with the smaller reels, the large stainless steel gear sleeves will also allow you to go to such high pressures that you can damage the teeth on the main gears.  

where these stainless steel gear sleeves prove their worth is in the jigmaster 500's, the mariner 49's, and the plain black side plate 112 and 113 senators.  particularly the black side plate 113 senator, because it is the largest reel that uses the "jigmaster" gear sleeve.  naturally, it is this black side plate 113 senator that enjoys the singular distinction of having the lowest "power to weight" ratio of all the senators made.  

as with all reels, most of the damage you see in older reels is due to corrosion.  the second source of damage is to the drive train as a result of sticky drags.  so the first thing to always do with any reel is to get some grease on all the metal surfaces and then switch out the drags to greased carbon fiber.  that will eliminate 99% of the wear and tear you see in a reel. after that, everything else is bling.  the exception is the 113 senator, where i feel a stainless steel gear sleeve is an absolute necessity.  get all of this done first, then let's start talking about the gear sleeves, dogs, gears, handles, and frames.  


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: alantani on January 17, 2014, 08:51:40 AM
Bill,

I'm new here too, though I started working on reels in the '80s.  Just spent the last 12 hours reading, mostly about Senator upgrades.  Search this forum for "The Tank" and you will find two of the most useful threads you'll read.

Len

welcome to the dark side! 


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Shark Hunter on January 17, 2014, 09:18:36 AM
Alrighty Bill!
This Venture really depends on how much you really want to Hot Rod your reels. It is all a personal preference and really just how deep you want to go into your wallet! ;D Me, I dig pretty deep, Following Sal's lead on most of the projects he does. Yes, I'm a copy cat, but that's how I learned.
If you really want to jump in with both feet, Its best to order the parts for both reels at the same time.
For the 113, The SS Sleeve is first, You get these from Alan, You can keep the stock gears, but I go with SS, Black pearl's to be specific. Then a Tiburon Frame, this is your next step toward a Tank. Unfortunately, this will be an item you will have to find off this site, unless someone wants to chime in.
If you go with the SS Gears, you need a stainless yoke, These are available from Dawn and Keta. Dawn also has the drag washers you need and Keta is our stainless steel Guru Here. He makes some mighty fine stainless Dogs and Handles that are second to None! You can also buy stainless handles and Handle grips from from Alan. I won't go into the double dogging yet, you have your work cut out for you as it is!
If you need anything, give me a Holla! I'm here to help! ;D
This is the Tank Thread. Its 31 pages Long!
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.0


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: LTM on January 17, 2014, 09:41:53 AM
Len and Bill,

If you want ALL the details on the Tank, read what I call the "Tank Chronicles" aka "Penn 113h Reel/Tank" and "Expeirmenting with 113h drags" both posts started by our resident "Dr. Tankenstien" aka Alto Mare aka Sal.

This forum is much like a virtual reel maintenance shop/lab with virtual projects going on all over the place by different people. Alan Tani (there's another Alan of Black Pearl products that offers some great parts as well), I call "Saint Alan" is the patron saint of fishing reels and we are the monks doing our individual tasks.

This place reminds me of the old days when I would go to the auto "speed shop" and get custom speed/hot rod parts made by different vendors to add/build my hot rods. Same difference  ::) just for fishing reels, etc.. Just like with auto's, if you up the performance, then you must upgrade the WEAKEST LINK(S).

Welcome aboard Len and Bill, just be carefull hanging out in the sections were they talk about "braided line/spectra"  :o. I cant figure out what the "hellp" those guys are saying over there. All I knows is that the minute they get around me and start that talking like: "serve me up, and wind-me-on and then loop-to-loop me there going to have a real fight on there hands  ::).  They even have one of our most stable and solid members Keta (aka Lee) talking like that. I think there smoking something strange, besides I think there "beat nick's and new age fangled people that dont want us to understand what they are doing  ;D ;D ;D. Now they got me hanging around those sections, Im going to see what there smoking and doing.  :o

Other than those strange area's you ought to be happy as a clam here.

Take care,

Leo


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Shark Hunter on January 17, 2014, 09:54:39 AM
If you need any "beat nick" deciphering, I can help with that too! ;)
Just don't get overwhelmed Bill. Take it in in small doses, then you will be an addict like the rest of us! ;D
Here is my Tank Thread.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7872.0


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: johndtuttle on January 17, 2014, 10:27:16 AM
the stainless steel gear sleeves are most critical for the reels "in the middle." 

the squidders are so small and the drag settings are so light that a stainless steel gear sleeve is often not needed unless you are going to seriously lean hard on the reel.  then you walk a fine line, because if you exceed the capacities of a soft brass squidder gear sleeve using by using stainless, then the softer brass dogs and maganese/bronze allow main gears can quickly give out. 

the 113h, 114, 114h and 115 gear sleeves are also heavy enough that the brass gear sleeve should do the job.  as with the smaller reels, the large stainless steel gear sleeves will also allow you to go to such high pressures that you can damage the teeth on the main gears. 

where these stainless steel gear sleeves prove their worth is in the jigmaster 500's, the mariner 49's, and the plain black side plate 112 and 113 senators.  particularly the black side plate 113 senator, because it is the largest reel that uses the "jigmaster" gear sleeve.  naturally, it is this black side plate 113 senator that enjoys the singular distinction of having the lowest "power to weight" ratio of all the senators made. 
as with all reels, most of the damage you see in older reels is due to corrosion.  the second source of damage is to the drive train as a result of sticky drags.  so the first thing to always do with any reel is to get some grease on all the metal surfaces and then switch out the drags to greased carbon fiber.  that will eliminate 99% of the wear and tear you see in a reel. after that, everything else is bling.  the exception is the 113 senator, where i feel a stainless steel gear sleeve is an absolute necessity.  get all of this done first, then let's start talking about the gear sleeves, dogs, gears, handles, and frames. 

I'm going to quote this for emphasis and also expand on it just a little.

This is not to say that Alan does not know these facts (and more) as well as anyone but there is another that I will add to his list and that is "User Error".  And this is often from not understanding your reels limitations despite your best intentions to not abuse your pride and joy.

So, imho, the number one source of Senator failure: Users not understanding what their reel can and cannot do (ie fishing the reel above its designed capability, even after modifications) and not doing basic maintenance/prep. Alan probably doesn't mention "user error" simply because it is so obvious to him however at the risk of being pedantic in a stickied thread I will post it  :D.

And the reason I am posting this is that in your OP you said "I want to believe I can mod my 113s and 115s to be stronger, tougher and better than a lot of modern big game reels..." and I think a word of caution is needed. You can make your reel vastly better on the cheap and with your own hands and make something that is more truly "your own" than a store bought model. But don't sell short the engineering marvels created from decades of experience and real engineering training that some of the better reels out there represent. Understanding how they work and why they cast better/make more smooth drag etc will be a good education I think you will find.

It's all about drag surface area and keeping it all rigidly aligned under load. When things twist forces get concentrated and wear/failure occurs on any number of parts. All of the mods are ways of increasing drag surface, increasing rigidity/improving alignment under load or providing backup for failure and/or to prevent it with stronger and more expensive materials than stock.

You can (and I hope you do) modify your own reels to be far better than they were originally. It is great fun and having reels that operate smoothly with a nice fish on is their own reward...in addition to learning about and understanding your tools and their limitations.

And you hopefully you will find a fish that has no regard for any of it! :D

best regards


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Chris Gatorfan on January 17, 2014, 11:02:07 AM
Nice addition to the post John. And you are soooooo right on user error. Even the best of us can make user error at any moment in time. But User error is not necessarily a bad thing. IMHO it it a basis for us all to learn from whether it is your first time picking up a reel and screwdriver, or your Alan Tani himself. We never stop learning, and the best ways to do that is through asking questions, experimenting, and learning from your experiences. And always remember there is no such thing as a "DUMB QUESTION."


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Legal Bill on January 17, 2014, 07:16:35 PM
Thanks John D Tuttle.  Good words of caution.  Where I off-shore fish, 25s and 30s are the most common big game reel.  Yellowfin are common, but usually under 100#.  There are lot of long fin as well as wahoo, mahi and the occasional white and blue marlin.  Every now and then, someone will hook a big eye.  Many people go sharking, but I'm not into that at all.  I troll with my 9/0s and a pair of Shimano TLD 50s.  I think they 50s are a bit too big for a lot of work I do.  I worry about the 9/0s having too much flex, so wanted to beef them up.  I was hoping the 113s could be upgraded to handle the work of 20 or 25s.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: erikpowell on January 17, 2014, 08:12:42 PM

It's all about drag surface area and keeping it all rigidly aligned under load. When things twist forces get concentrated and wear/failure occurs on any number of parts. All of the mods are ways of increasing drag surface, increasing rigidity/improving alignment under load or providing backup for failure and/or to prevent it with stronger and more expensive materials than stock.


Boom!  Well defined John  ;)


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: BMITCH on January 18, 2014, 02:55:10 AM
Thanks John D Tuttle.  Good words of caution.  Where I off-shore fish, 25s and 30s are the most common big game reel.  Yellowfin are common, but usually under 100#.  There are lot of long fin as well as wahoo, mahi and the occasional white and blue marlin.  Every now and then, someone will hook a big eye.  Many people go sharking, but I'm not into that at all.  I troll with my 9/0s and a pair of Shimano TLD 50s.  I think they 50s are a bit too big for a lot of work I do.  I worry about the 9/0s having too much flex, so wanted to beef them up.  I was hoping the 113s could be upgraded to handle the work of 20 or 25s.

I've fished 25's quite a bit and they are EXCELLENT reels but......there is nothing like catching a decent fish on equipment that you have built/mod'ed on your own. Something about that whole mind set. The 113h's with either the 1+7 drag kit or the BP hex gears is IMO as good if not better then the 25. My suggestion would be to get a set of the BP SS gears(standard) and the 1+7 drag config. And fish it. With the standard gear set it takes a lot of work outta the equation by not having to "custom" cut your own cf's. Just my two cents worth. BTW the tiburon/accurate frames are a MUST if you are going to button down this reel. Just way toooooo much flex.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Legal Bill on January 18, 2014, 06:04:54 AM
I have the HSPs with the full graphite frame.  How well do those hold up without a frame upgrade?  They looks like this, but were made in the USA.  I bought them new over 10 years ago.

http://www.pennfishingstore.com/penn-special-senator-h2-reels.html


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: surfcaster on January 18, 2014, 06:40:48 AM
(disclaimer) I am not an expert by any means , I have several 113h reels older & newer styles
 & they have  held up well over the years. we fished The U.S. graphite frame one for 8 years now
 It has held its own. easy to maintain & It is still working like new.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: BMITCH on January 18, 2014, 06:42:13 AM
Again this all comes down to how and how much? How are you going to use it and how much are you willing to spend. For me working on the upgrades and mods is almost as fun as fishing the reels. Notice I said almost! If the money is a factor then the graph. Frames are good. It's just when you start to upgrade to SS gears, maxed out cf washers etc....then torque becomes an issue. If your looking to get 25# + drag outta the 113H with all the goodies then I strongly recommend a Tib/accurate type frame. If you are not going to "tax" the reel with those higher drag settings then basically stock items are the way to go. Point being, your only limited by your budget and imagination. These upgrade are all about fun and experimenting.hope this helps.
Bob


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Keta on January 18, 2014, 07:32:27 AM
I have the HSPs with the full graphite frame.  How well do those hold up without a frame upgrade?  

Not so well, this was a 50 fished at 28lbs of drag.

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/BadReel-1.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/BadReel-1.jpg.html)


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: BMITCH on January 18, 2014, 07:47:29 AM
WOW lee. Looks like hell!!


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: surfcaster on January 18, 2014, 08:20:01 AM
Either failed the bucket of bricks test,hung up on bottom pretty good,or the one that got away.  Aluminum billet is stronger,
but  most  add  because It looks cooler,like chrome on a bike.
 


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Chris Gatorfan on January 18, 2014, 08:48:32 AM
Looks like someone or should i say something had a nice headache the next morning...


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Keta on January 18, 2014, 01:38:12 PM
Either failed the bucket of bricks test,hung up on bottom pretty good,or the one that got away.  Aluminum billet is stronger,
but  most  add  because It looks cooler,like chrome on a bike.
 

Cow YFT.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: johndtuttle on January 18, 2014, 03:33:19 PM
I have the HSPs with the full graphite frame.  How well do those hold up without a frame upgrade?  They looks like this, but were made in the USA.  I bought them new over 10 years ago.

http://www.pennfishingstore.com/penn-special-senator-h2-reels.html

This is what you do (carefully): Get a scale and preset your 113h to about 12-15lbs of drag. You'll be surprised how much it is when you try and lift that weight on the end of a rod. Then put your hand on the reel and bounce the weight a tiny bit. You will feel the frame flex like it's just about ready to blow any second.  This is especially easy to do with a harness on as you can easily lift while having your hands free to feel.

Then (again, ideally in a harness) try cranking the handle while feeling the frame. It will clearly and obviously torque and twist and every time it does imagine the alignment of a tooth on the gear and how you are stressing it as compared to it being flat and stable.

This is the "user error" that I am talking about and you see all the time. That is, people cranking as hard as they can against a stubborn fish while their reel frame flexes and twists. Or alternatively the fish takes a run and the drag chatters and starts and stops because the guy never prepped his reel and salt water has soaked into his drag causing peaks and valleys in drag performance. That starting and stopping and jerks are beating everything up.

Anyways, as above, the basic prep and SS gear sleeve make a ~$100 reel (which really is incredibly cheap) much better. But imho, if you are going to routinely fish the reel around 12-15lbs and use a power handle then you really need the solid frame to keep it all aligned. You will be amazed how much it increases cranking power at higher loads by limiting binding from frame twist.

best


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Bunnlevel Sharker on January 18, 2014, 04:00:29 PM
John I've never noticed that on my 113hlw


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: johndtuttle on January 18, 2014, 04:12:23 PM
John I've never noticed that on my 113hlw

Try it again maybe, then compare to a Penn Int 50 that is milled from a solid billet. I may have exaggerated a tad for effect but the point is if you feel *any* flex the reel is getting close to it's max before failure (which meets my criteria for ready to 'splode :)).

When you crank under heavy load also look at your gear shaft and you will see clearly noticeable flexing as the bridge is simply not supported in a material that is as rigid as solid aluminum.

That's why a Int 50 is so heavy. To prevent all of the above and fish 25lbs of drag utterly reliably.

When you hammer the drag down on a 113h you have reached what the Penn Engineers think the entire package is engineered to fish reliably for years. That is what I was talking about when I said "decades of real engineering training". These products are not made by seat of the pants guesstimation but by calculation of forces, an understanding of materials and a chosen level of performance for the price.

When we tank up our 113's we are essentially re-inventing the Baja Special 113HN mod by mod. Take a careful look at that design and you will see everything already incorporated and refined with even a little more in the casting department.  When you have a basic understanding of every change in the 113HN design from a stock 113H you will grasp everything the tank process is doing. :)

Unfortunately Penn does not make them in anything other than that one size and gear ratio. :(


Best


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Bunnlevel Sharker on January 18, 2014, 04:22:26 PM
I pump and wind, use mine locked down on rays and sharks. But then again your comparing 115 bucks to 600 ;)


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: surfcaster on January 18, 2014, 04:57:01 PM
  I have Had more than my share of the "One that got away" too. never had any of my 113h reels blow up ,
 over it .I must have been  fortunate all these years to break off first . The Bottom line It is a great reel
you can get one used for 50 bucks ,easy to maintain & the sky is the limit on upgrades. Gotta remember to set the drag too
when fishing.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: BMITCH on January 18, 2014, 05:48:07 PM
John good point. Try putting 20# of weight on any reel and hold onto it for say...20 mins. This is an EXTREMLY hard thing to do.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: erikpowell on January 18, 2014, 06:37:37 PM
Same thing that happened to Lee, happened to me too…...at 27lbs… strike was set at 21lbs

(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/P1090059_zpsc69509db.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/P1090059_zpsc69509db.jpg.html)
we got the fish though.. 137lbs
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/P1090053_zps66ef0249.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/P1090053_zps66ef0249.jpg.html)


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: BMITCH on January 18, 2014, 06:44:46 PM
Nice Allison !


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: erikpowell on January 18, 2014, 07:19:50 PM
Nice Allison !

as in transmission ??   ;D


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Keta on January 18, 2014, 07:22:31 PM
Same thing that happened to Lee, ....


It wasn't me, my big reels are metal framed.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Tightlines666 on January 18, 2014, 07:38:49 PM
That was a nice Allison, Ahi, Yellowfin, Thunus albacares, or (Kahada) Majuro, if you prefer :)
and I thought it was supposed to be fun catching big fish on 'light' reels. 
Well done!


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Shark Hunter on January 21, 2014, 09:37:14 AM
Legal Bill,
When ever you are ready to upgrade your reels, I will be more than glad to help. Every one has their own opinion of things on here. I just wanted to make sure you feel Welcomed. ;D Not scared away by all the fluff. ;)


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: shellbank99 on January 24, 2014, 04:15:28 PM
Legal Bill,
I sold my Baja Specials and now just use my Tanks. If u don't want 2 do all the work get some Baja's. They are solid reels. I just love my tanks, they are kinda like my favorite gun. I bought new fancy stuff but I found myself always picking up that same gun when hunting season started. Same with the tanks, ole reliable. If u want a killer bottom setup use a tank mounted on a ugly stick tiger jigging rod.
Respectfully,
Troy


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: BMITCH on January 24, 2014, 04:47:33 PM
That was a nice Allison, Ahi, Yellowfin, Thunus albacares, or (Kahada) Majuro, if you prefer :)
and I thought it was supposed to be fun catching big fish on 'light' reels. 
Well done!


Tightlines, I thought when you get a large YFT with sickle type fins this was referred too as an Allison? At least that's what we call them up here in the NE.
Bob


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Shark Hunter on January 24, 2014, 05:02:11 PM
Is that you holding up that Allison Eric? Looks like two 40 ouncers of Old English sitting on the Dock. ;)


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Tightlines666 on January 24, 2014, 05:51:55 PM
I grew up fishing in Beemuda and we borrowed alot of fishing-related terminology and technology from the NE so I am indeed partial to using the term 'Alison' to describe mature YFT.  IGFA likes the term too.  We used the term 'little tunny' to describe all the smaller tuna species except Blackfin even though there is really only 1 true Atlantic 'Little Tunny' species.  We called Dolphinfish 'Dolphinfish' as is proper w/regards to their accepted common name, and we even had 'Sea Robbins'. Though this is by no means related to this 'bait fish's' true common name.  Most times regional fish terminology seems to lump groups together under one name, particularily hawaiian names (I.e Ahi(YFT,BFT,BT,Alb) Kahala(yellowtails,almacos,and greater amberjack),Ulua, and many others.  I kinda like east coast saltwater terminology the best, though Japanese terminology is prob the most universal world-wide.  When in Rome....


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: BMITCH on January 24, 2014, 07:23:59 PM
Thanks, that's what I thought.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Ron Jones on January 24, 2014, 08:18:24 PM
I still enjoy being looked at weird when I walk up toa guy at the Waianae boat haven and say "wow, you've got a lot of mackerel." Or when I go to Niko's and ask for a dorado sandwich. If we all called everything the same thing I think we could say the new world order had been established.
Ron


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: erikpowell on January 26, 2014, 03:12:44 PM
Is that you holding up that Allison Eric? Looks like two 40 ouncers of Old English sitting on the Dock. ;)

Yo Daron, hahahaa it does remind me of  Old English  ;D   that's a 40oz Fiji Gold… and not me holding Allison ( thanks Bob), I'm snapping
the pic… after the reel broke it took about 30mins to hand line Allison to the boat. There was a lot more empties than those that day!  ;D

Here's a shot of me ….. holding up 230lbs:
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/P2280093_zps84099ace.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/P2280093_zps84099ace.jpg.html)




Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Dominick on January 26, 2014, 03:29:07 PM
Erik: Looking at your grimace and buckling knees, I'd estimate that it was 229.4lbs.   ;D :D Dominick


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: BMITCH on January 26, 2014, 03:40:51 PM
Nice fish!


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Keta on January 26, 2014, 04:55:54 PM
You are holding your arms out to make it look big.... ;D


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Dominick on January 26, 2014, 05:00:36 PM
You are holding your arms out to make it look big.... ;D

Lee that made me belly laugh.   ;D ;D ;D Dominick


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: erikpowell on January 26, 2014, 05:19:36 PM
You are holding your arms out to make it look big.... ;D

 ;D ;D   As IF !


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Shark Hunter on January 26, 2014, 05:39:53 PM
No wonder you want to stay in Fiji! ;)


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: erikpowell on January 26, 2014, 09:32:53 PM
you should see the size of the bulls & tigers right out front!





Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Alto Mare on January 27, 2014, 03:55:41 AM
You are holding your arms out to make it look big.... ;D

 ;D ;D   As IF !
Nice fish Erik!
Don't worry about the two young man above, they're just jealous they can't hold it up as we can anymore  ;) ;D


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Newell Nut on January 27, 2014, 04:36:21 AM
That was a sharp blow to the bread basket. Time to pump more iron boys.  ;)


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Shark Hunter on January 27, 2014, 04:37:25 AM
lol :D


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: txangler81 on February 01, 2015, 11:33:15 PM
Someone earlier was comparing internationals to senators. I finally broke down and read a few of the international threads just to see what they are all about and from the few I read I got that they are stronger reals but they seem to be really bad about corroding. One even said that it is a good idea to do a full break down and cleaning after every trip. So to me at least a tanked out senator that cost half of what an international cost will hold up even better in the long run, and if your are worried about your side plates exploding didn't accurate make aluminum side plates for some of the senator reels.

Dustin


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: redsetta on February 02, 2015, 12:01:46 AM
Just saw this one - great fish Erik!
Well done mate.
Is that back in port at Denarau?


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Maxed Out on February 02, 2015, 10:20:59 AM
    Great picture Eric !!..., Thanks for sharing..... You just enlarged my bucket list


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: johndtuttle on April 19, 2015, 10:23:49 AM
Someone earlier was comparing internationals to senators. I finally broke down and read a few of the international threads just to see what they are all about and from the few I read I got that they are stronger reals but they seem to be really bad about corroding. One even said that it is a good idea to do a full break down and cleaning after every trip. So to me at least a tanked out senator that cost half of what an international cost will hold up even better in the long run, and if your are worried about your side plates exploding didn't accurate make aluminum side plates for some of the senator reels.

Dustin

Different reels for a different class of fish.

Internationals and their two speed brethren from Accurate, Shimano, Avet, Okuma etc are decidedly superior on the biggest fish.

There is no free lunch when it comes to big fish.



Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Alto Mare on April 19, 2015, 11:01:30 AM
A well equipped Senator will do just fine. They did good without any upgrades in the past, could only do better now.
Sal


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: johndtuttle on April 19, 2015, 12:48:14 PM
A well equipped Senator will do just fine. They did good without any upgrades in the past, could only do better now.
Sal

I am sorry Sal, this simply isn't the case. They managed in the past. They will land fish...at a cost to the Angler's extra effort. But, there are vastly better tools available now.

Where a Senator will always excel is simplicity and longevity/ease of upkeep. But not pure performance. They do not fish a live bait as well, they do not make as much drag, they do not have as much cranking power.

The Penn International was invented for a reason. 2-speeds with 1.1 low gear was invented for a reason. There is good reason why such reels dominate the market now. There is good reason why you virtually never see big Senators being fished for truly big tuna among regular and experienced big game fisherman that have options.





Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Alto Mare on April 19, 2015, 01:28:31 PM
A well equipped Senator will do just fine. They did good without any upgrades in the past, could only do better now.
Sal

I am sorry Sal, this simply isn't the case. They managed in the past. They will land fish...at a cost to the Angler's extra effort. But, there are vastly better tools available now.

Where a Senator will always excel is simplicity and longevity/ease of upkeep. But not pure performance. They do not fish a live bait as well, they do not make as much drag, they do not have as much cranking power.

The Penn International was invented for a reason. 2-speeds with 1.1 low gear was invented for a reason. There is good reason why such reels dominate the market now. There is good reason why you virtually never see big Senators being fished for truly big tuna among regular and experienced big game fisherman that have options.

No John I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was simply answering Dustin's question, I wasn't comparing.
Yes there is a reel for everything, all have their place.  I simply said the Senator can get it done.
As me, there have been a bunch of guys here that enjoying upgrading  the old reliable Senators,  maybe we'll get to see some pictures soon.
Sal


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: johndtuttle on April 19, 2015, 03:03:14 PM
A well equipped Senator will do just fine. They did good without any upgrades in the past, could only do better now.
Sal

I am sorry Sal, this simply isn't the case. They managed in the past. They will land fish...at a cost to the Angler's extra effort. But, there are vastly better tools available now.

Where a Senator will always excel is simplicity and longevity/ease of upkeep. But not pure performance. They do not fish a live bait as well, they do not make as much drag, they do not have as much cranking power.

The Penn International was invented for a reason. 2-speeds with 1.1 low gear was invented for a reason. There is good reason why such reels dominate the market now. There is good reason why you virtually never see big Senators being fished for truly big tuna among regular and experienced big game fisherman that have options.

No John I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was simply answering Dustin's question, I wasn't comparing.
Yes there is a reel for everything, all have their place.  I simply said the Senator can get it done.
As me, there have been a bunch of guys here that enjoying upgrading  the old reliable Senators,  maybe we'll get to see some pictures soon.
Sal

Ah, gotcha Sal. Context is everything.

I agree completely that hot rodded Senators are potentially capable of landing VERY big fish, they certainly have in the past before any upgrades. I fully encourage anyone to mod their reel to their hearts content and test it on the real thing.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Shark Hunter on April 19, 2015, 06:36:45 PM
For Land Based fishing. The Senator is the winner. Hands down. From a boat, That is for the international. JMO
You want to get it done, Get an Everol. The best of both worlds.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Legal Bill on May 04, 2016, 05:18:04 AM
Back to the top...

So I was just wondering about crank arms and handles.  People recommend Alan's arms and handles, but I only see postings for his handles.  Does he list the arms somewhere?


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Shark Hunter on May 04, 2016, 08:19:17 AM
Adam is your Man.
http://motivefab.com/products-page/reels


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Legal Bill on May 06, 2016, 09:41:58 AM
Adam is your Man.
http://motivefab.com/products-page/reels

Thank you.  Excellent web site. 


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: ez2cdave on October 21, 2016, 08:22:37 AM
I'll start by saying that the Senators are one of the easiest reels to work on. However there are different tweaks you can do to them to make them stronger all around.

1. You can contact Alan Tani about getting a new stainless steel sleeve with a SS Dog and the CF washer to go under the main gear. He sells these as a set with outstanding prices on them.

2. Contact Dawn - SmoothDrag - to get the CF Drag washers for your specific reel

(Those 2 steps should be your first priorities if cost at this time is an option. If not then continue on...)

3. I went with a second SS Dog on my reel at this point. Gives you the back-up support should one of your AR Dogs give way. Should be able to get a second from Alan, or you can either pm Keta for one, or go to mysticparts.com.

(The next steps can be done either way)

4. Next would be to look into getting a new SS gear set for your reel. Black Pearl has great deals on these and amazing quality on there parts.

5. Now look into getting a nice power handle. Alan and Keta both carry these, as well as SmoothDrag, MysticParts, and BlackPearl.

6. Lastly is the frame. Finding a good solid Half or full frame should round you out for strength upgrades. Broadway (Dom) has some half frames for the 115 coming any day now. Black Pearl has some full frames for the 115 coming soon and you can always check the web (eBay, etc.) to find some also.

I hope this helps.

7. - "Double-Dog" modification !!!

Tight Lines !

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: ez2cdave on October 21, 2016, 08:29:40 AM
pretty much as above.  

first, a complete tear down and rebuild, getting a light coat of grease on all the metal surfaces.  an old toothbrush works here, along with any grease you want to use.  it's less important what grease you use, just as long as you use something.  

second, grease the 5 drags inside the main gear and replace the fiber washer with a carbon fiber drag washer.  

third, the handle.  of course, i like my 5/0 grip the best.  lee and i both make stainless steel arms.  

fourth, the stainless steel gear sleeve.  i have this farther down the line, because it's hard to round off the soft brass gear sleeve if you have properly greased drag washers.  may as well replace the brass dog with a stainless steel dog at this point.

fifth, a hardened stainless steel main and pinion gear.  

sixth, a frame.  

with any reel, i would go for the first three mods without hesitation.   i would only go with the last three if i had trouble, or if i knew i was going to get into some.  at the very least. do the first two.   ;D

seventh, the "Double-Dog" modification . . .

Tight Lines !


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Legal Bill on November 01, 2016, 02:44:54 PM
Just a quick update from me.  I upgraded my drags on my 115s and added Sal's/Broadways one piece frames.  The 115s are a part of my six rod spread.  One of them landed this nice small medium BFT this past July.



Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Ron Jones on November 01, 2016, 03:04:21 PM
Congrats on the BFT!
I think that 9/0 with frame and drag improvements can handle most anything in the water, and I applaud your choice. I have no idea how to use those silly lever and transmissions, and I don't much care to figure it out. I don't know how you can fish a live bait better than a reel with light spool in complete free spool, but I hear the comment often.
As others have said, to each there own. I'm sticking to star drags.
Ron


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Alto Mare on November 01, 2016, 03:11:49 PM
Very nice, congratulation Bill. just a quick note, Sal didn't have much to do with the one piece frame, That was Tom and Dom :).
Thanks for sharing.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Shark Hunter on November 01, 2016, 03:12:46 PM
Nice fish Bill. I love seeing the Senators getting it Done. ;)


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Rancanfish on November 01, 2016, 03:59:40 PM
That's great! I want a big tuna.


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: Legal Bill on November 03, 2016, 12:35:53 PM
Very nice, congratulation Bill. just a quick note, Sal didn't have much to do with the one piece frame, That was Tom and Dom :).
Thanks for sharing.

Roger that.  It was Tom I bought the second frame from.  Thanks for keeping me in line.  As I said at the top of this thread, I'm a little lost here!  :o


Title: Re: I'm a little lost here
Post by: ez2cdave on March 11, 2017, 06:02:19 PM
Roger that.  It was Tom I bought the second frame from.  Thanks for keeping me in line.  As I said at the top of this thread, I'm a little lost here!  :o

Bill,

Never fear . . . You are among friends here !

Tight Lines !