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#21
Penn / Tuning a Penn Spinfisher
Last post by slugmeister - April 25, 2024, 07:59:56 PMI've been playing a lot with the old Penn spinfishers this year and I've learned a lot. I've learned some things that I have not seen mentioned so hopefully this helps somebody.
I currently own a small handful of reels, a 722, 722z, 712, 712z, 710, and 710z. No I did not intentionally get one green and one z of each, it just worked out that way. I'm sure anyone looking has noticed, but the 716 and 714, people are asking beyond ridiculous prices. I love these reels, but for $200 you can buy a better reel. The 420ss and 430ss are not any cheaper either. I don't have much of an opinion on the 706. As of now, you can still get a good 722, 712, 710, and 704 for under $50. I don't know that I've paid over $40 for any of mine, but there is also shipping cost. They might not be quite as bullet proof, but I feel like most people would be plenty happy with a 722 instead of a 714 or 420ss. Alternatively I would suggest you try the 710, it's bigger, but you might just find you like it. I've never tried a 720, but its the exact same as the 722, but with a 4:1 gear ratio. the 722 has a 5:1 ratio. There's also left hand versions like the 711, which if you are left handed might save some money.
When it comes to line you often hear about how only mono is ok, except Fireline for some reason is ok even though its a fused braid. I don't know about all that, but I have different braids on every one of mine and there's nothing wrong. I have Powerpro 10# on my 722. I don't remember what is on my 722z, but its a braid. My 712 has 20# power pro. My 710 has 30# Spiderwire Durabraid. My 710z has 50# Berkley X9. They lay line in a slight figure 8, but it's not bad. Most pictures online make it looks worse than it is, but still, I can't figure out what problem it causes because I haven't found any. It's not really a spinfisher, but I also have a Penn 550SS which has similar internals, and it is spooled with I think 40# power pro, it too works just fine. These reels work good with mono too of course. These spinfishers still cast farther and have less issues with braid than with monofilament. In my opinion, unless you have a reason to want to use monofilament as a main line, these reels work better with braid.
That might sound like a rant, but it sets up my first tuning tip. This one is no secret, but it's two parts. That is shimming the spool so the line lays level on the spool. If you have a reel that lays line more on the bottom, or more on the top, it's not going to work as good as it can. If you shim your spool so it lays line level, these work just fine with any line. If they lay line more on top, then you add spacers. If they lay line more on bottom, then you remove spacers. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly, but I think my 710, 712z, and 722z all lay line perfectly fine with the original teflon washer they come with under the spool. I know I added a shim to my 722 in the form of a spare drag washer I had laying around. On my 710z it was laying line more on the bottom, so I had to remove spacers. I did not try it with no washer at all, bras on the aluminum spool might be fine. I ended up making a thin shim from .005" thick mylar plastic to replace my teflon spacer, and it lays perfectly that way. This isn't rocket science, they just have to be kind of close. I can fully recommend adding a drag washer if you need a spacer, or making a thin mylar spacer if you need less.
The second part of this is that spacer does effect your drag. To most it probably will not matter, but if you want to get the strongest drag you can which is also smooth, then replace that teflon washer, it is more slick than you would think. I don't care about maximum drag, so most of my reels have carbon fiber drag washers up top, but still have the Teflon spacer under the spool. This produces a very smooth drag. If you replace the teflon with a carbon fiber (or add one on top if you need extra spacers), this increases the maximum drag you get from the reel. I am not using grease on my spacers, but I always grease the drag washers in the spool. I want the smoothest drag I can get. Those trying to maximize drag might want to use no grease at all. I found the mylar shim also increases drag over the teflon, yet produces a smooth drag. One last little tid bit about drags, some reels come with dimpled steel or brass washers for the top, which allow the drag knob to have click adjustments. I really like these, and I would recommend people find those washers if your reel came with smooth ones.
One of the biggest complaints you hear about with these reels is the bails. There's the fact they are automatic only, and there's also the complaint they can flip closed during cast. Both my 722 and 722z I have cut the bail wire so they are manual pickup now. Both my 710 and 710z I have left alone, but they could easily be cut manual pickup. The 712's, I do not think they would perform good as manual pickup. The line roller is set very low on the rotor, the line guide is actually below the top lip of the rotor, the line goes through a cut out in the rotor. Maybe it would work, but I suspect it would be sub par. As for manual pickup on suitable reels such as the 722's, 710's, and 704's, it works fine. I suspect it would be fine on the 714 too, and the 720 is the same as the 722. I'm unsure on the 716. You can easily take the line out, cast with full confidence, and then put the line back on the guide. It doesn't take long to get used to it. I suspect it would not be quite as enjoyable with monofilament, but with braid as limp as it is, it works pretty good.
Alternatively I've found some things to make using the bail not just workable, but enjoyable. First it comes with the caveat that your reel doesn't have mechanical issues. If your bail spring, or bail release arm spring are worn out, then it's never going to work right. They also have to be clean of course. Sand doesn't seem to be a big issue, but corrosion and fine dust certainly can. Once you are sure your reel is in good order, the first tuning tip I have is to rotate your bearing retainer plate. You can put it on in three positions, and it does make a big difference. This is easier to show than explain, but the bump which activates the bail release is what you want to adjust. Generally people open the bail with the line roller right at their finger, we will call that 12 o clock looking down on the reel from the top. If you have the bearing plate turned so the bail releases at about 2 o clock, I get a lot of accidental trips. During a cast the spool can rotate from torque, or even just the reel handle and having that release so close is asking for issues. If you turn it 1/3rd (3 screws on the plate), it will now release the bail at about 6 o clock. I find this is the sweet spot for me which I will tell why in the next paragraph. I don't get accidental trips here, at least I haven't yet. You can also turn it 1/3rd more, and the bail will trip at about 10 o clock. The only trick to this position is your line roller has to be all the way at 12 o clock to open. If you try to open the bail any earlier the release is already over the spot so it won't lock open. I'm sure you would get used to that quick. The advantage is you would just about guarantee the bail would not accidentally close. The downside is you now have to turn the reel so much farther to close the bail after a cast.
While these are automatic only bails, I've found ways to close them without the reel handle. On the 710, the bail release is big enough you can just push it with your thumb to manually close it. It actually works pretty good. The 722's is kind of small, it's not easy to do, maybe with small fingers. If you could add a small knob or handle to it that would certainly work. The 712 it's not really an option since their bail release is on the opposite side and it's not easy to push either. So at least for the 710 only, you can manually close them with no modifications. Alternatively what I've been doing is after a cast, take the rotor in the palm of your hand and in quick motion roll that rotor and it will rotate far enough to close the bail. You are essentially doing the same thing you would if you used the reel handle, but you don't have to reach for the handle, turn it, move your hand back, grab the line to pull it tight, and then back to the handle to reel. I suppose there's other ways to do it too. When I cast my hand is right on the rotor and many times I'll thumb the spool to control the cast. Most of the time I fully brake the line before the lure hits the water so the line is already taught. Then just snap the wrist and the bail is closed, really no different than a manual close bail, except you aren't grabbing the bail.
I don't know if this counts as tuning, but going back to braided lines and issues people have. All of my reels, even my bait casters all have monofilament backing on them because I don't need the full line capacity. This works great. If you are somebody who wants the maximum line capacity you can do that too, and I'm surprised this isn't common knowledge. All you need to do is take a small bit of electrical tape and stick it on the bottom of your spool. It really is that easy, just a small tape maybe 1/2" wide by 1" long is all it takes and braid tied directly to the spool will not rotate when you do this. You can use 100% braid on any reel like this.
Hopefully this helps, I'll update with more tuning tricks if I think of any more.
I currently own a small handful of reels, a 722, 722z, 712, 712z, 710, and 710z. No I did not intentionally get one green and one z of each, it just worked out that way. I'm sure anyone looking has noticed, but the 716 and 714, people are asking beyond ridiculous prices. I love these reels, but for $200 you can buy a better reel. The 420ss and 430ss are not any cheaper either. I don't have much of an opinion on the 706. As of now, you can still get a good 722, 712, 710, and 704 for under $50. I don't know that I've paid over $40 for any of mine, but there is also shipping cost. They might not be quite as bullet proof, but I feel like most people would be plenty happy with a 722 instead of a 714 or 420ss. Alternatively I would suggest you try the 710, it's bigger, but you might just find you like it. I've never tried a 720, but its the exact same as the 722, but with a 4:1 gear ratio. the 722 has a 5:1 ratio. There's also left hand versions like the 711, which if you are left handed might save some money.
When it comes to line you often hear about how only mono is ok, except Fireline for some reason is ok even though its a fused braid. I don't know about all that, but I have different braids on every one of mine and there's nothing wrong. I have Powerpro 10# on my 722. I don't remember what is on my 722z, but its a braid. My 712 has 20# power pro. My 710 has 30# Spiderwire Durabraid. My 710z has 50# Berkley X9. They lay line in a slight figure 8, but it's not bad. Most pictures online make it looks worse than it is, but still, I can't figure out what problem it causes because I haven't found any. It's not really a spinfisher, but I also have a Penn 550SS which has similar internals, and it is spooled with I think 40# power pro, it too works just fine. These reels work good with mono too of course. These spinfishers still cast farther and have less issues with braid than with monofilament. In my opinion, unless you have a reason to want to use monofilament as a main line, these reels work better with braid.
That might sound like a rant, but it sets up my first tuning tip. This one is no secret, but it's two parts. That is shimming the spool so the line lays level on the spool. If you have a reel that lays line more on the bottom, or more on the top, it's not going to work as good as it can. If you shim your spool so it lays line level, these work just fine with any line. If they lay line more on top, then you add spacers. If they lay line more on bottom, then you remove spacers. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly, but I think my 710, 712z, and 722z all lay line perfectly fine with the original teflon washer they come with under the spool. I know I added a shim to my 722 in the form of a spare drag washer I had laying around. On my 710z it was laying line more on the bottom, so I had to remove spacers. I did not try it with no washer at all, bras on the aluminum spool might be fine. I ended up making a thin shim from .005" thick mylar plastic to replace my teflon spacer, and it lays perfectly that way. This isn't rocket science, they just have to be kind of close. I can fully recommend adding a drag washer if you need a spacer, or making a thin mylar spacer if you need less.
The second part of this is that spacer does effect your drag. To most it probably will not matter, but if you want to get the strongest drag you can which is also smooth, then replace that teflon washer, it is more slick than you would think. I don't care about maximum drag, so most of my reels have carbon fiber drag washers up top, but still have the Teflon spacer under the spool. This produces a very smooth drag. If you replace the teflon with a carbon fiber (or add one on top if you need extra spacers), this increases the maximum drag you get from the reel. I am not using grease on my spacers, but I always grease the drag washers in the spool. I want the smoothest drag I can get. Those trying to maximize drag might want to use no grease at all. I found the mylar shim also increases drag over the teflon, yet produces a smooth drag. One last little tid bit about drags, some reels come with dimpled steel or brass washers for the top, which allow the drag knob to have click adjustments. I really like these, and I would recommend people find those washers if your reel came with smooth ones.
One of the biggest complaints you hear about with these reels is the bails. There's the fact they are automatic only, and there's also the complaint they can flip closed during cast. Both my 722 and 722z I have cut the bail wire so they are manual pickup now. Both my 710 and 710z I have left alone, but they could easily be cut manual pickup. The 712's, I do not think they would perform good as manual pickup. The line roller is set very low on the rotor, the line guide is actually below the top lip of the rotor, the line goes through a cut out in the rotor. Maybe it would work, but I suspect it would be sub par. As for manual pickup on suitable reels such as the 722's, 710's, and 704's, it works fine. I suspect it would be fine on the 714 too, and the 720 is the same as the 722. I'm unsure on the 716. You can easily take the line out, cast with full confidence, and then put the line back on the guide. It doesn't take long to get used to it. I suspect it would not be quite as enjoyable with monofilament, but with braid as limp as it is, it works pretty good.
Alternatively I've found some things to make using the bail not just workable, but enjoyable. First it comes with the caveat that your reel doesn't have mechanical issues. If your bail spring, or bail release arm spring are worn out, then it's never going to work right. They also have to be clean of course. Sand doesn't seem to be a big issue, but corrosion and fine dust certainly can. Once you are sure your reel is in good order, the first tuning tip I have is to rotate your bearing retainer plate. You can put it on in three positions, and it does make a big difference. This is easier to show than explain, but the bump which activates the bail release is what you want to adjust. Generally people open the bail with the line roller right at their finger, we will call that 12 o clock looking down on the reel from the top. If you have the bearing plate turned so the bail releases at about 2 o clock, I get a lot of accidental trips. During a cast the spool can rotate from torque, or even just the reel handle and having that release so close is asking for issues. If you turn it 1/3rd (3 screws on the plate), it will now release the bail at about 6 o clock. I find this is the sweet spot for me which I will tell why in the next paragraph. I don't get accidental trips here, at least I haven't yet. You can also turn it 1/3rd more, and the bail will trip at about 10 o clock. The only trick to this position is your line roller has to be all the way at 12 o clock to open. If you try to open the bail any earlier the release is already over the spot so it won't lock open. I'm sure you would get used to that quick. The advantage is you would just about guarantee the bail would not accidentally close. The downside is you now have to turn the reel so much farther to close the bail after a cast.
While these are automatic only bails, I've found ways to close them without the reel handle. On the 710, the bail release is big enough you can just push it with your thumb to manually close it. It actually works pretty good. The 722's is kind of small, it's not easy to do, maybe with small fingers. If you could add a small knob or handle to it that would certainly work. The 712 it's not really an option since their bail release is on the opposite side and it's not easy to push either. So at least for the 710 only, you can manually close them with no modifications. Alternatively what I've been doing is after a cast, take the rotor in the palm of your hand and in quick motion roll that rotor and it will rotate far enough to close the bail. You are essentially doing the same thing you would if you used the reel handle, but you don't have to reach for the handle, turn it, move your hand back, grab the line to pull it tight, and then back to the handle to reel. I suppose there's other ways to do it too. When I cast my hand is right on the rotor and many times I'll thumb the spool to control the cast. Most of the time I fully brake the line before the lure hits the water so the line is already taught. Then just snap the wrist and the bail is closed, really no different than a manual close bail, except you aren't grabbing the bail.
I don't know if this counts as tuning, but going back to braided lines and issues people have. All of my reels, even my bait casters all have monofilament backing on them because I don't need the full line capacity. This works great. If you are somebody who wants the maximum line capacity you can do that too, and I'm surprised this isn't common knowledge. All you need to do is take a small bit of electrical tape and stick it on the bottom of your spool. It really is that easy, just a small tape maybe 1/2" wide by 1" long is all it takes and braid tied directly to the spool will not rotate when you do this. You can use 100% braid on any reel like this.
Hopefully this helps, I'll update with more tuning tricks if I think of any more.
#22
Fishing Tips and Techniques / Re: Return them right
Last post by MexicanGulf - April 25, 2024, 07:14:05 PMInteresting
#23
Penn / Re: Penn 712 and 710 gear swap...
Last post by slugmeister - April 25, 2024, 06:57:33 PMAs an update, I got my 710z all cleaned up and left the original gears in it. I did confirm they are the original 3.64:1 gear set. I fished with both my 710 with 4.1:1 and 710z with 3.64:1 gears on sunday and yesterday. I honestly can not tell the difference. I was mostly throwing swim baits where speed is not critical. I picked through the best parts and put it in my 712. The 712z works perfectly, but I'm probably going to sell it as I have no use for it.
Here's how I feel right now for anyone looking at buying a 712 or 710. I think the 710 bail is a better design than the 712 in multiple ways. I am quite impressed with the plastic spool on the 710, I'm not worried about that breaking at all anymore. I also do not think buying a 712 to swap gears is worth it, I can not tell the difference. The 712 rotor and spool are both smaller and thinner, which makes it lighter. The 710 spool is beefy, both bigger and thicker, that is a solid plastic spool, and the aluminum one is a tank. Personally I like the 710 better, but the 712 is lighter and smaller and matches a lighter rod better. I have not tried a 714 yet. Hopefully this helps someone.
Here's how I feel right now for anyone looking at buying a 712 or 710. I think the 710 bail is a better design than the 712 in multiple ways. I am quite impressed with the plastic spool on the 710, I'm not worried about that breaking at all anymore. I also do not think buying a 712 to swap gears is worth it, I can not tell the difference. The 712 rotor and spool are both smaller and thinner, which makes it lighter. The 710 spool is beefy, both bigger and thicker, that is a solid plastic spool, and the aluminum one is a tank. Personally I like the 710 better, but the 712 is lighter and smaller and matches a lighter rod better. I have not tried a 714 yet. Hopefully this helps someone.
#24
Penn / Re: Penn 712 and 710 gear swap...
Last post by slugmeister - April 25, 2024, 06:45:52 PM@Gfish, to me 50' is getting pretty deep. To the open ocean fisherman, 100' is probably shallow. Generally all you need to do to keep fish healthy if you are pulling them up from 40' to maybe 70' is the deepest I've caught fish, is to just reel in slowly. I don't have an exact number, but I would guess it takes a few minutes to reel up a fish, once they tire I kind of just let them come up on their own. Some fish are more tolerant than others. It seems to me things like perch don't handle it very well. Pike usually do pretty good. I've never been much for lake trout, but they are almost exclusively fished deep, like 100' deep. I've never heard of much issue with barotrauma with them.
Generally you hear about the fish bulging from the swim bladder. That's only part of the issue as you noted. Fish can get the bends just like we can. I've seen fish bleeding from the gills before, that's actually probably the most common thing I've seen. When a fish comes up with its eyes bulging out and guts in its mouth, I just don't see how it has a good chance of survival at that point. Maybe I'm completely wrong there.
@nels, that's a matter of opinion. The Penn 712 with the 3.64:1 gear set is still faster than most baitcasting reels in the past, and is on par with many today. It's faster than an Abu Garcia Ambassadeur 5500C3 with 5:1 gears.
Generally you hear about the fish bulging from the swim bladder. That's only part of the issue as you noted. Fish can get the bends just like we can. I've seen fish bleeding from the gills before, that's actually probably the most common thing I've seen. When a fish comes up with its eyes bulging out and guts in its mouth, I just don't see how it has a good chance of survival at that point. Maybe I'm completely wrong there.
@nels, that's a matter of opinion. The Penn 712 with the 3.64:1 gear set is still faster than most baitcasting reels in the past, and is on par with many today. It's faster than an Abu Garcia Ambassadeur 5500C3 with 5:1 gears.
#25
Penn Tutorials and Questions / Re: Penn 980 - Assembly Questi...
Last post by hotajax - April 25, 2024, 06:35:44 PMThanks for posting. Not 100 per cent certain, but I think that the lip on the bronze flange (right in the middle of photo 9 ) will face inward toward the bearing. Any takers on that?
#26
Penn Tutorials and Questions / Re: Penn 980 - Assembly Questi...
Last post by jurelometer - April 25, 2024, 06:29:46 PMSal to the rescue (again!)
Check around the 7-9th photos.
https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,10273
Same part/assembly for the 970 and 980.
Sal was (is) our resident Mag Power guru. His threads on these reels are worth a read.
-J
Check around the 7-9th photos.
https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,10273
Same part/assembly for the 970 and 980.
Sal was (is) our resident Mag Power guru. His threads on these reels are worth a read.
-J
#27
Photo Gallery / Re: Surfmaster 100 upgraded
Last post by fishmeluck - April 25, 2024, 06:28:14 PMQuote from: sabaman1 on April 24, 2024, 06:05:16 AMNice job, it looks great! I too like to narrow the smaller Penns though I realize the Penn 100 came narrowed out of the box. Makes a great 1/2 or 3/4 day Sport fishing trip reel. Put some braid and a short top shot of mono and your golden!Your suggestion is my plan, a minimalist one rod setup for 1/2 day or 3/4 day trips: a 15-30 lb rod, the Penn 100, two spools, both spools backed about 1/2 full with some previously used and saved 50# braid, one topped with 25# mono, the other topped with 30# braid.
#28
General Questions and Trouble Shooting / What Is The Appropriate Alan T...
Last post by hotajax - April 25, 2024, 06:18:36 PMCant seem to find that one. Thanks.
#29
Penn Tutorials and Questions / Penn 980 - Assembly Question. ...
Last post by hotajax - April 25, 2024, 06:10:45 PMOn the non-handle side, the bearing cup has a bronze washer / flange with a lip on it. Which way does the lip face? Inward toward the reel or outward. The there's a spring-loaded post that pokes through that flange, and the end of the spool fits on that. I'm thinking the lip faces inward so the bearing can sit in it. Thanks.
#30
Fishing Tips and Techniques / Re: Return them right
Last post by steelfish - April 25, 2024, 05:59:33 PMI made my effort to keep healthy fisheries on this side of Baja too, let me show you
I made a video of a the SeaQualizer which was used on that video, my intention was to show options to our local pangueros (boat panga captains) on how to return safety a fish with problems of barotrauma, on the Sea of Cortez there is not much problem with barotrauma on fish because there are not many deep reefs or really deep fisheries for sport fishing, so, mostly this apply to the pacific ocean at the other side of Baja, either way I had the opportunity to test the SeaQualizer and shared this video to local captains and some authorities.
my compadre Lee sent me the SeaQualizer as well as those other auto-release Pin showed on that video
the video is in Spanish, sorry
I made a video of a the SeaQualizer which was used on that video, my intention was to show options to our local pangueros (boat panga captains) on how to return safety a fish with problems of barotrauma, on the Sea of Cortez there is not much problem with barotrauma on fish because there are not many deep reefs or really deep fisheries for sport fishing, so, mostly this apply to the pacific ocean at the other side of Baja, either way I had the opportunity to test the SeaQualizer and shared this video to local captains and some authorities.
my compadre Lee sent me the SeaQualizer as well as those other auto-release Pin showed on that video
the video is in Spanish, sorry