Another long term 6/0 project

Started by Rothmar2, March 31, 2014, 07:57:31 AM

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Rothmar2

Well, a frustrating day trying to install the new gears. There is a bit of a grinding hum to the gears, and I can't get the reel into free-spool, the jack is getting jammed.
The yoke is the cause I'm sure. Going to have to go over everything with a fine toothed comb. I'm sure there is a reason behind this, I just haven't been able to pinpoint it yet. Just need to walk away from it for a bit.
Everything was fine with the original gear, pinion and yoke.

bluefish69

Rothmar2

Don't get mad get even. Sal did the grinding on my 6/0 for the second Dog & I bought all new SS insides. I have started & put it away 4 times so far since Spring.

Mike
I have not failed.  I just found 10,000 ways that won't work.

Rothmar2

Quote from: bluefish69 on October 16, 2014, 03:44:53 AM
Rothmar2

Don't get mad get even. Sal did the grinding on my 6/0 for the second Dog & I bought all new SS insides. I have started & put it away 4 times so far since Spring.

Mike

Not mad yet, I had the funny feeling this might happen. I seemed to recall reading about similar problems with installing these gears on here. I think the jamming can be cured by carefully bevelling the edge of the yoke where the jack tabs pass over. The grinding I'm guessing could have something to do with the shim I have resting against the right side bearing to take up the sideways play on the spool. It's quite thick, I may have to remake it thinner.
The only thing that did my head in, was I was greasing all parts as I was assembling, in order to get this side ready to be fished. Gonna have to clean it all off in order to check carefully where my problem lies.
Certainly not giving up at this point. I have a bunch of pics I will get up ASAP.

Shark Hunter

Make sure you smooth out the jack tabs too. That makes a big difference. Usually on all my stainless yoked reels, that is all that's needed. if you don't. They will catch every time.
Life is Good!

Rothmar2

#64
Doh! Doh! Doh!



Amazing how easy it is to be blinded by ones own ignorance.
I walked away for a couple of hours, had a cup of coffee, sat back down and spotted it straight away!
How embarrassing! Anyway, free-spooling is now slick, but there is still a bit of a whirr about the gears, but no roughness transmitted up the crank as before. The dogs are now super quiet now they are greased up.
Will get some more details up when I get some more time. For now, I am happy I got through this stuff up!

Shark Hunter

I wouldn't worry too much about the gear noise. Just make sure they are greased well. I have some older 12 and 14/0's with steel gears that sound like a motorcycle! ;D I still trust them. ;)
A Funny story, after getting back from my last Shark Trip. I was respooling a 14/0 from one reel to another. My Boy happen to stop by and I gladly let him reel. He rested the reel seat on the floor, my Wife was downstairs and thought the neighbor was revving his truck up from the gear noise. :D
Life is Good!

jonnou

cool you got it sorted
You are a real man to show your mistake
others wouldn't
I have done these sort of things multiple times
some of the easy things are the big trips
more power to you and thanks for sharing
Cheers Jon

Rothmar2

#67
That's pretty funny SH, and a touch cute. Not afraid to show my mistakes John, won't be the last one I make  ::)
Here is how I made the top hat....

First started off with scrap 30mm stainless shaft



Rough down to about 22mm diameter
Drill the sleeve bore to 14.5mm. Ideally 14.3mm would be better, this would leave a clearance on the gear sleeve of slightly less than 0.1mm. I only went this way due to the drills I had at hand.



Then skim a length of 10mm to 18mm diameter

Take the shaft out at this stage and put the Delrin stock into the chuck. In this case I have 40mm.
Turn down a spigot to 29mm dia, and then drill an 18mm bore.

Quick check to make sure the stainless sleeve is a semi tight fit



Then turn a shoulder to 20.8mm over a length of 5mm



Put a little tapered shoulder on this. This leaves the 29mm flange 4mm thick.



Cleaned up the little burr with emery.
Part the delrin top hat off. Total length of this piece is 10mm.
Put the stainless back in the chuck, and trim the top flange to 20.8mm, then part off the stainless sleeve with the top flange being 1.5mm thick.



Press the two parts together. Total height 11.5mm



Will get some details of the handle/crank up shortly.

Tightlines667

Well done!  Making dreams a reality, one part at a time :)
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

Alto Mare

You do some beautiful work Chris, I'm glad you're here with us.
Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

foakes

Hi Chris --

What a clever and simple idea -- just takes thought and skill.

Never quit trying to make the good better.

And the great greater.

Beautiful work!

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

Bryan Young

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you make the top hat out of stainless steel and the sleeve out of Delrin?  To me, you would want something extremely solid pressing down on the drag washers, and the delrin would be a bearing cushioning the top hat from the gear sleeve.  what is your take?  
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Alto Mare

Delrin is very strong, I've been testing a sleeve made from Delrin  on my reels for some time now and it is still holding up. I've been squeezing it to 30+lbs.
Here is a shot of the Delrin sleeve holding 320+lbs for a couple of days.
Yes, I'm not all there ;D


I like what Chris is doing, very good idea. That reel should feel as smooth as silk. But he needs to place one  under the gear as well.
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

Rothmar2

#73
I have made the UG washers as well, I made a few of varying thicknesses.



In this case I am using one that is 0.8mm thick. I found a 1mm thick one led to the top hat rubbing ever so slightly in the gear recess on the right side plate. Note, I have also honed all the washers on the lapping plate, they are all dead flat. I have not had line on the spool yet, but so far, with this configuration, I can feel no break-away to get the drag slipping. It is really smooth. Easily equal to a honed lever drag's smoothness. I am getting around to posting pics as I have time. Still have a fair few more to show.
I'm glad you asked Bryan, because the only reason I could come up with (after I thought about it after I had made this part) was so as not to wear away the edges of the top keyed drag washer, by no longer having the belleville there flexing on it, LOL! I didn't fully think about the Keying of the washers on the gear sleeve. I had it in my head that the top washer beyond the lip of the gear would turn. This clearly isn't the case. The only other reason I can give is if the bridge shaft deflects, under heavy load, the delrin part of the hat, could come in contact with the lip on the
outside of the right side plate. The 20.8mm dimension allows for a clearance of about 0.15mm around this lip.
I'm glad Sal posted the pic of that stack of bricks on the delrin pieces. I weigh 86kg, and would have no doubt, the delrin hat would support my weight without the stainless sleeve. I made the flanged sleeve to stop the possibility of the drag star and sleeve thread deforming the delrin over time by screwing it on/off repeatably, and to transfer the thrust in a uniform manner to the delrin.

foakes

That reel, with Rothmar's attention to detail -- should be as smooth as butter when the drag is engaged at start up -- and all of the way to full lock down.

Impressive...

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.