113H under gear washer

Started by Jerseymic, July 19, 2014, 10:42:53 AM

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basto

OK, sorry to confuse things by bringing ABU into this. We had best stay with PENN for this. Good luck with it. You are a pioneer.
Basto
DAM Quick 3001      SHIMANO Spedmaster 3   Jigging Master PE5n

Alto Mare

No, not a problem Basto, I always value your opinion. Besides, an ABU is always welcomed  ;)
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

maxpowers

Sal,

With the Delrin rated to 180 F, on some of the bigger reels, don't we risk failure at high drag setting?

mhc

#48
Here's a photo of a plastic spacer I think Basto was referring to. The black plastic one is from an older ABU 7000C, the crome one is from a later 7000 - not sure which model.

Upside down, showing recessed centre, the perimeter sits on the spring washers


In place showing top keyed to the gear sleeve


Bearing and spacers that replace the plastic bushing or spacer in a 7000 C3. The spacers transfer the pressure through the inner sleeve of the bearing


And an older ABU 5000 plastic spacer - photo from the Ambassadeur 5000 tutorial by LLCC


It can't be too difficult - a lot of people do it.

Alto Mare

#49
Thanks for the pics mhc, very nice.
Quote from: maxpowers on July 27, 2014, 03:41:29 AM
Sal,

With the Delrin rated to 180 F, on some of the bigger reels, don't we risk failure at high drag setting?

Good question Michael, we will need to find out for ourselves by fishing the reel, the smoother the reel the lesser the heat build up.
I have many calluses in my hands and could probably only hold 180 degree for a second or two :-\.
I believe they are talking long term on the 180 degrees
http://www.sdplastics.com/delrin/delrin[1].pdf
A smoother reel will help with heat build up.
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

Doug

Hi Sal I am wondering how a washer of this material would work on the SS spinners . The washer under the spool . currently I'm using  HT-100's with no problems but it might make for a smoother drag. Have you tried this yet?  Great work by the way   Doug

Alto Mare

Quote from: Doug on July 27, 2014, 01:43:38 PM
Hi Sal I am wondering how a washer of this material would work on the SS spinners . The washer under the spool . currently I'm using  HT-100's with no problems but it might make for a smoother drag. Have you tried this yet?  Great work by the way   Doug

Yes Doug, I did install them in the spinners as well. All reels that I fish with will have the Delrin washer, I believe in this product.
Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

basto

DAM Quick 3001      SHIMANO Spedmaster 3   Jigging Master PE5n

Alto Mare

Basto, I just want to mention that the spacers do look similar, but the one on the Senator is not keyed.
I would be more comfortable using one not keyed, as on the Senator.
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

Bryan Young

Quote from: mhc on July 27, 2014, 07:12:51 AM
And an older ABU 5000 plastic spacer - photo from the Ambassadeur 5000 tutorial by LLCC
I have often replaced that spacer with a bearing.  There is one that fits perfectly in ID and OD, but you would need to add a couple of thrust washers above/below the bearing.  I do not like that bushing spinning while cranking that can wear the bushing and make the handle wobbly. I believe the bearing size that I used was 8 x 13 x 4 mm.   A taller bearing would be better but I didn't have one, nor I don't know if a taller bearing was available.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Alto Mare

#55
I'm not with you on this Bryan, a Derlin bushing is way better than a roller bearing. Keep in mind Derlin won't wear that easy this isn't just plain plastic, this stuff is also used to make gears.
On my reels, I like to have the OD and Id spinning, in case one gets jammed.
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

Bryan Young

I don't believe that this material is Delrin.  This material was grooved and scratched up by the sideplate collar.  By replacing this piece with a bearing, the shaft is constantly held in place with the shaft spin versus the spinning shaft and sleeve rotating in the collar.  If I could find the right bearing size to replace my spacer in my Penn reels, I would use a bearing.  That way I would have additional support on the bridgeplate's gear sleeve to help share the load to the side plate.  This is just my opinion.  Just looking at it from the mechanical forces and providing additional support to the gear sleeve other than that one point on the bridge plate.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Alto Mare

I understand, that is exactly why I'm doing it. I still disagree with you, a derlin sleeve is a much better choice that a bearing there, just as the washer for under the gear instead of a carbon fiber washer.
You have your opinion and I have mine ;) ;D.
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

Tightlines667

I like the idea of a Delron spacing sleeve here because it seems to me that it will act like a bearing, yet stand up to the side load applied by the star, and should also deal well with any water/salt intrusion.  However, Brian has a valid point, if I'm not misunderstanding him, that supporting the shaft/gear sleeve in the horizontal plain (with respect to the gear sleeve) will help to reduce side loading on the gear shaft/sleeve.  I'm not sure if it is practicle to fit a 2 piece bushing around the gear sleeve and tight with the side plate on the senators to accomplish both goals simultaneously?  Might warrant a bit more thought.  I have seen a lot of loose/so only drive shafts on the bridges of larger senators in particular.  It would be nice to be able to support the gear sleeve/shaft with a bearing or bushing or combination where it passes through the side plate.  I know you guys have looked at this issue before though.  I agree with Lee that a Delron spacing sleeve will help to isolate(/smooth out) the drag assembly and handle the side loading though.
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

Alto Mare

#59
We are trying to do the same, but I still say derlin will do it better than a bearing. I'm just wondering what makes you think that a derlin sleeve wouldn't keep the gear sleeve stiffer than without, those can be squeezed and still work as a bearing.
Johndtuttle talked about the roller bearing over by "The Tank" about a year ago, he actually installed it on his 113H.
A roller bearing is useless unless you have it snug. For this particular installation, having it snug will work against you, you won't be able to adjust the drags. Derlin is more forgiving there.
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.