Daiwa magnetic seal service

[johndtuttle]

Found a good price . . .

http://www.parts-express.com/ferrofluid-650ul-general-purpose-for-2-diameter-vc--340-544

Tight Lines !

So I looked at that....and it is ~$9 for 650 **micro liters** before shipping....and not at all certain that the speaker stuff is good to use on spinning parts (ie seal rotor to pinion assembly...) despite what some reviewer is saying....

That comes out to $450 per ounce....but you probably would save on shipping!

[ReelClean]

Found a good price . . .

http://www.parts-express.com/ferrofluid-650ul-general-purpose-for-2-diameter-vc--340-544

Tight Lines !

So I looked at that....and it is ~$9 for 650 **micro liters** before shipping....and not at all certain that the speaker stuff is good to use on spinning parts (ie seal rotor to pinion assembly...) despite what some reviewer is saying....

That comes out to $450 per ounce....but you probably would save on shipping!

Hi John,
That 650uL will service the pinion seals on about 15-20 2000size reels,  you don't need to buy this stuff by the drum!  Seeing as you can't get the "real thing" from Daiwa the Ferrotec stuff is actually priceless 
"The speaker stuff" is exactly what we are all using for the pinion seal, and I am still waiting for someone to pipe up and say it has failed.
cheers
Steve

[farnorthlbg]

I havent had the mag-oil in my posetion long enough to experience it 'going bad'.  I transfer it from its little sealed plastic tubes into a small sealed glass vile so there is very little oxygen in the vile for it to possibly oxidize.

If it was to change its viscosity and go gluggy, not sure thinning it with a solvent would be a good idea(?).  Wouldnt the solvent eventually flash-off/evaporate over a short period of time leaving the fluid in its original composition (gluggy)?

If the fluid is thickening over time that would almost confirm the carrier oil is hydrocarbon based.  Synthetic ester/diester based carrier oils do degrade due to oxidation but only over prolonged periods.

I inspected a Morethan Branzino a few weeks back that was bought a couple of years ago new and had done little work (hadnt been submerged or had water splashed on it).  The ARB seal was starting to dry up, I also inspected the line roller seal and the intergrated bearings and they were in a similar state.  I flushed and replenished with fresh fluid.

I think that once Daiwas ferrofluid has left the bottle and been applied and exposed to a greater atmosphere it starts to oxidize and breakdown.

This corresponds with scenarios of dried up, rusty coloured clumpy residue people have been experiencing with Daiwa mag-oil seals.

[farnorthlbg]

Heres a few facts regarding the degradation of ferrofluid that may be of interest....

The degradation of ferrofluid is determined by several factors.  One is having magnetic stability under high magnetic field gradients (this isnt much of a factor for our application of 'seals' in fishing reels but more so in the likes of commercial vaccuum feedthru seals which employ high magnetic field gradients to maintain a seal).  The high magnetic field gradients tend to cause the magnetic particles to agglomerate and aggregate resulting in seperation of the magnetic particles from the carrier liquid.

The main reasons for degradation of ferrofluid in our application is the chemical stability relating to the oxidation of the saline-based surface modifying agent.  This is used to treat the 'naked' magnetic particles and acts as a non-dispersant in order for the particles to accept several layers of surfactant (usually a fatty-acid such as Oleic Acid).  Once the surface modifying agent oxidizes the whole system falls apart.

All carrier oils undergo an oxidation process over the course of time, although synthetic ester based carrier oils can be formulated to be resilient to oxidation for very long periods of time.  They can also be formulated for resilience to hydrolisis and still maintain excellent lubrication properties.

[johndtuttle]

Found a good price . . .

http://www.parts-express.com/ferrofluid-650ul-general-purpose-for-2-diameter-vc--340-544

Tight Lines !

So I looked at that....and it is ~$9 for 650 **micro liters** before shipping....and not at all certain that the speaker stuff is good to use on spinning parts (ie seal rotor to pinion assembly...) despite what some reviewer is saying....

That comes out to $450 per ounce....but you probably would save on shipping!

Hi John,
That 650uL will service the pinion seals on about 15-20 2000size reels,  you don't need to buy this stuff by the drum!  Seeing as you can't get the "real thing" from Daiwa the Ferrotec stuff is actually priceless 
"The speaker stuff" is exactly what we are all using for the pinion seal, and I am still waiting for someone to pipe up and say it has failed.
cheers
Steve

I would be more interested in how much to service a 5000 and 6500 sized reel...?

The early mag-sealed Daiwas have had plenty of trouble with the oil staying where it should and (as above) drying out on unsuspecting fishos leading to corrosion trouble. Since then their fluid seems to have gotten better, which is why I am cautious about using speaker oil, it may not  be the ideal spec for the SW environment and fishing reels.

I, of course, have no actual negative experience as yet.

[farnorthlbg]

There are several grades of Ferrotec ferrofluids available for speakers John, the grade ReelClean has chosen seems to be very similar in its chemical composition to Daiwas proprietry mag-oil (I spoke to Ferrotec regarding this).

The fluid ReelClean has been using contains a high quality synthetic-ester based carrier oil and seems to contain a suitable amount/ratio of magnetite particles (and size of particles) to maintain a seal and lubricate/seal mag bearings.

Thats basically all that is required

[ReelClean]

Found a good price . . .

http://www.parts-express.com/ferrofluid-650ul-general-purpose-for-2-diameter-vc--340-544

Tight Lines !

So I looked at that....and it is ~$9 for 650 **micro liters** before shipping....and not at all certain that the speaker stuff is good to use on spinning parts (ie seal rotor to pinion assembly...) despite what some reviewer is saying....

That comes out to $450 per ounce....but you probably would save on shipping!

Hi John,
That 650uL will service the pinion seals on about 15-20 2000size reels,  you don't need to buy this stuff by the drum!  Seeing as you can't get the "real thing" from Daiwa the Ferrotec stuff is actually priceless  
"The speaker stuff" is exactly what we are all using for the pinion seal, and I am still waiting for someone to pipe up and say it has failed.
cheers
Steve

I would be more interested in how much to service a 5000 and 6500 sized reel...?

The early mag-sealed Daiwas have had plenty of trouble with the oil staying where it should and (as above) drying out on unsuspecting fishos leading to corrosion trouble. Since then their fluid seems to have gotten better, which is why I am cautious about using speaker oil, it may not  be the ideal spec for the SW environment and fishing reels.

I, of course, have no actual negative experience as yet.

ATM this is the best product/info we have, from page 3 of this thread:

"I got a reply from Ferrotec Industries USA:

Their chemists seem to think there would be no reason why the APG L11 class ferrofluid wouldnt work to lubricate magnetic ball bearings.
They did mention they produce a class of ferrofluid especially for this which is very similar almost identical in makeup and ingredients to the APG L11 fluid.
I wonder if theyre referring to the fluid they manufacture for Daiwa?

The APG L11 fluid is the one I selected for Unobtainoil to replace Magseal oil, it seems it may also be satisfactory for lubing the mag bearing."

Unless someone else finds something more suitable, this is the only game in town  
I would guess that you should get at least 5+ services from 650uL.  When a single SS bearing costs you $10, it ain't that bad?
Tell you what, if someone wants to rid themselves of their troublesome high-end Daiwa's, I can offer them a token rebate to accept them for recycling  
cheers
Steve

[ReelClean]

Heres a few facts regarding the degradation of ferrofluid that may be of interest....

The degradation of ferrofluid is determined by several factors.  One is having magnetic stability under high magnetic field gradients (this isnt much of a factor for our application of 'seals' in fishing reels but more so in the likes of commercial vaccuum feedthru seals which employ high magnetic field gradients to maintain a seal).  The high magnetic field gradients tend to cause the magnetic particles to agglomerate and aggregate resulting in seperation of the magnetic particles from the carrier liquid.

The main reasons for degradation of ferrofluid in our application is the chemical stability relating to the oxidation of the saline-based surface modifying agent.  This is used to treat the 'naked' magnetic particles and acts as a non-dispersant in order for the particles to accept several layers of surfactant (usually a fatty-acid such as Oleic Acid).  Once the surface modifying agent oxidizes the whole system falls apart.

All carrier oils undergo an oxidation process over the course of time, although synthetic ester based carrier oils can be formulated to be resilient to oxidation for very long periods of time.  They can also be formulated for resilience to hydrolisis and still maintain excellent lubrication properties.

Yep, I considered all that when I selected APG-L11 for Unobtainoil.......
.
.
.
No, seriously, I really did!         

[_SilverArrow_]

Hello I'm from Slovenia  and we don't have daiwa "services" and i wanted to ask you if you can confirm my teories. I read the whole tread and if i understand well must be ferrofluid on magnetic synthetic base and not on hydrcarbon based oil right? Because hydrocarbon based evaporates faster. So i found that link on page 3: http://www.parts-express.com/ferrofluid-650ul-general-purpose-for-2-diameter-vc--340-544
Is that sythentic base right.

And i found one from germany: https://www.amazon.de/Ferrofluid-beste-Qualität-flüssiges-Unterricht/dp/B00FVZHR3C
I sent an email to the seller and they confirmed that is "light hydrocarbon base oil 

[ReelClean]

You understand correctly, synthetic base oil is recommended (ie the first one you mention.).
cheers
Steve

[_SilverArrow_]

You understand correctly, synthetic base oil is recommended (ie the first one you mention.).
cheers
Steve

Ok thank you now i just need to find the cheapest product+spedition costs to my country 

[PE Pete]

WOW I thought I was concerned about mag servicing, some of you guys are next level.
Good onya for not putting up with the ridiculous situation Diawa have created.
I have three mag sealed Saltigas all bought last year and am dreading putting them in for servicing.
Anyone in NZ got access to viable alternative ?
Cheers Pete

[exp2000]

WOW I thought I was concerned about mag servicing, some of you guys are next level.
Good onya for not putting up with the ridiculous situation Diawa have created.
I have three mag sealed Saltigas all bought last year and am dreading putting them in for servicing.
Anyone in NZ got access to viable alternative ?
Cheers Pete

Steve (ReelClean) in Brisbane can help you out. He has bulk stock of his unobtainoil.

In your neighborhood, farnorthlbg was chasing some a while back so you could give him a try.
~

[ez2cdave]

anything that is fishing related is fine. 

"Anything" . . . ?

LOL !

Tight Lines !

[minson]

At 2016 october, I serviced my luvias (2012) with ferrofluid (APGL11) I buy it form ebay (australia) that just fine until now. Just share the good news. The APG L11 works. Thanks