Does felt produce more drag?

[basto]

I bought a new surf reel lately and the amount of drag that Shimano claim for it surprises me.
It is a large spin reel, Ultegra 14000XTC. Two reasons I bought it are it`s gear ratio of 4.3:1 and it comes with 2 cold forged spools. For $264,and a few other reasons, I think it is good value.
Shimano claim 20 kgs of drag with only 3 felt washers, which are smaller in diameter than my Torium`s,(41mm) and I get about 23 pounds of drag from the Torium with carbontex.
I`m also surprised at Shimano`s claim of 10kgs of drag for the Stradic fj4000....also 3 felt drag washers.
The washers in both reels are coated with grease.

[MFB]

I was also surprised by Shimano's drag figures too, the 4000 is only about 2kg less than the 8000 and it's half the size. I have replaced the washers in my 4000 with carbontex from Dawn, the 8000 already has carbon drag washers in it.

Rgds

Mark

[alantani]

felt will eventually compress, glaze and get sticky......   

[basto]

felt will eventually compress, glaze and get sticky......   

Hi Alan
I suppose the question is...how long is eventually?
I agree that the felt will compress and get sticky, but if it does produce substantially more drag than other drag materials and lasts say even 3 or 4 years, then some would probably be prepared to change it that often.
My attention was drawn to this when I saw it in such a large reel as the Ultegra 14000.
Prior to this I had only seen it used in small reels. I have owned such reels that have had the felt lightly oiled, but the felt in this large spinner feels like it has been greased with Shimano`s drag grease. 

[Three se7ens]

Its easy to get stupid high drag numbers from spinning reels.  Ive tested my okuma coronado 40 at upwards of 30 lbs of static drag, but Id never fish it even above 10. 

Spinning reel's in general are subject to overinflated drag figures, and just because the reel can produce a drag number doesnt mean the rest of the reel is up to the task.  In the case of spinning reels, Id say that very few are actually capable of being fished at or near their max drag figures. 

For a reel like the stradic 4000, with an aluminum frame, and good construction, the service life will likely suffer if fished past 10-12 lbs of drag.  Personally, Id fish a reel like that with 30 lb braid and 8-10 lbs max drag on the heavy side, and 15-20 lb braid and 4-5 lbs of drag on the light side.

[basto]

Its easy to get stupid high drag numbers from spinning reels.  Ive tested my okuma coronado 40 at upwards of 30 lbs of static drag, but Id never fish it even above 10. 

What kind of drag material does your Okuma use?

[Three se7ens]

Its easy to get stupid high drag numbers from spinning reels.  Ive tested my okuma coronado 40 at upwards of 30 lbs of static drag, but Id never fish it even above 10. 

What kind of drag material does your Okuma use?

Original was oiled felt, but my tests were done with carbontex washers in the main stack and under the spool. That reel is a perfect example of a drag system spec'ed by marketing and not engineers. The rest of the reel couldn't handle more than 8-10 lbs for any amount of real fishing.

[alantani]

most companies still use felt.  shouldn't be surprising.  afterall, many flyreels still have cork drags.  

[basto]

Yes, sounds like carbontex is still king. Thanks for your replies guys.
Basto

[Robert Janssen]

I can't speak of the reels specifically, but coincidentally a reel connoisseur customer asked me to make him a full set of the washers in your second pic, in stainless steel and carbon. I didn't know what reel it was for at the time, and didn't really care.
So i did. Haven't heard back from him on that yet, but i'll be sure to ask when i hear from him. (it was in connection with another project of his, a TV show or film about a guy named Joel who goes fishing for thousand-pound Greenland Shark from a kayak. There is a video of that on YouTube.)

Anyway, that had more to do with his desire to reduce stick-slip / ratio of coefficient of static vs dynamic friction than it did his desire to increase total drag.

Really, the carbon fiber materials used in reels nowadays have a relatively low coefficient of friction. Many materials have  higher. And, use of them would of course increase total drag. Whether felt is among them, idunno... (what felt? woolen felt? Polyester felt? Nomex felt? I experimented a bit with a carbon fiber felt some years ago)

.

[basto]

Thanks for your reply Robert.  Very interesting. So it seems if one wanted to produce the highest max drag for a bottom fishing reel, then felt would be better than carbontex, given that you would need to replace it more often.
I realise that carbontex is tops for a lot of line coming off a reel at a very fast rate, but am more thinking of a slow heavy pull.

[Erik]

How do we maintain these felt drag washers? just a light coating of oil or replace them?

Mine appear to be shedding fibers which are now mixed with grease\oil.

Do carbonex washers have to be replaced or can they be greased with Cal's and not require replacement?

Thanks for the help in advance.

[Bryan Young]

Hi Erik,

I have yet to replace greased carbontex drag washers.  I would just clean them off, slap a fresh coat of grease and done.  Ready to be fished for another season or few.

[alantani]

erik, welcome!!!!!!

[Erik]

The felt ones that came with my reels look compressed, so I was hoping for a temp fix until my carbonex ones got in.

I put a thin coat of Cals and it seems better, but I'm sure when I replace them they will be awesome!

Thanks for all the great information here!