Senator 114HLW gear ratio reduction

marc77 · September 22, 2014, 12:05:19 AM

Is it possible to reduce the gear ratio on a Senator 114HLW?

The stock gear ratio is 2.8 to 1. I would like to reduce it to a 2 to 1 if possible. Is there a set of gears that will fit and work to lower the gear ratio?

The senator 114 has a 2.1 to 1 gear ratio. However, those gears will not work in a 114HLW because the spools are different.

Thank you for any suggestions.

alantani · September 22, 2014, 12:47:20 AM

just get a black side plate 114!

Alto Mare · September 22, 2014, 12:55:54 AM

Not that I know of, I tried a while back using the 13-115 pinion in the 114H and it didn't work. Very close, but not good enough.
Sounds like you will be doing some heavy lifting with those, I would recommend getting yourself a 115L, it's about 5oz heavier but a little slower, 2.5:1, which is very close to what you're looking for.
The 115 would be better suited for you, more line retrieve per crank at almost the same speed.
My 114WEX is the same width as my 115 and very close in weight.

marc77 · September 22, 2014, 10:49:49 AM

Yes, I have several black side plate 114 Senators. I wanted the same gear ratio and line recovery per handle turn, but in a wide version.

The 115 is heavier and has about the same line recovery as the 114HLW. It is not what I am looking for.

I could also fish the 114HLW by filling the spool 2/3 with line. That will give it more cranking power, but will also reduce the line capacity. In which case I could just use a 114.

Thank you.

Alto Mare · September 22, 2014, 11:30:52 AM

The 114 is a nice reel, but not as capable as the 114H and 115, in my opinion anyway. Replacing the black plates doesn't help, the spool shaft on the 114H is much beefier than the 114 and the right side is longer. The 115 has a stronger pinion, but like you've said, it is a little heavier, about 5oz. more. The additional 5oz wouldn't bother me much but, but it does on some. Good luck on your search, I hope you find what you're looking for.

doradoben · September 22, 2014, 06:24:04 PM

Have you considered a longer handle for more leverage??

marc77 · September 22, 2014, 09:25:16 PM

Yes, I already installed a longer handle (from the Daiwa Sealine 900H). Those 900H handles work great on the Senator 114 series reels.

As I stated, I am basically looking to make a Senator 114 in a wide version. The 114 main gear will work. The problem is with the 114 pinion gear. It will not mesh with the 114 hlw spool.

Thank you all for your input.

The bottom line is that, if you guys do not know of a way to do it, then it cannot be done.

Regards

Keta · September 22, 2014, 10:04:12 PM

You can try to drill out the 114 pinion gear.

Filling your spool with Spectra will give your more line capacity than with mono.

marc77 · September 22, 2014, 10:48:32 PM

I will take a close look at the gears and maybe a machine shop can make the necessary modifications so that the 114 gears will work in the 114hlw.

I was hoping that I could use a set of gears, possibly from some older or discontinued penn reel that would work. However, it does not look like there are any.

I cannot use spectra for my application.

Thank you all.

Alto Mare · September 23, 2014, 01:31:52 AM

Quote from: Keta on September 22, 2014, 10:04:12 PM
You can try to drill out the 114 pinion gear.

Filling your spool with Spectra will give your more line capacity than with mono.

I just remembered that the 114 has the same pinion as the 115.
It won't be easy slowing down the 114H, but anything is possible. One think I could tell you about mixing gears from other reels to make them work will cost you money $:-\$

marc77 · September 23, 2014, 01:57:10 AM

There are two possibilities that were stated:

1. Drill out the 114 pinion gear; or

2. Get a machine shop to machine the spindle on the 114hlw spool so that it will be the same as the spindle on the spool of the 114. If i do this, I will also have to change the side plates because the 114 has bushings and not bearings.

I will start by taking a hard look at the 114 pinion gear and see if drilling it out will work. That may be the easiest to do.

Thank you for all the replies.

Alto Mare · September 23, 2014, 02:34:41 AM

I'm going to recommend that you let this one go. There isn't anything wrong with the ID on the 114-114H and 115 pinion, they should all fit both, the problem is that it won't help anything. To lower the gear you will usually need a wider pinion or narrower main gear, but the dimensions need to be the same as the stock gears when you hold them together. If you're still set on getting a wider spool for the 114, that could be done, but you'll need a machinist.
I'm sure no machinist will take on the responsibility if the spool fails and it might not be cheap.
I tried it myself on a 113, using a 113H spool and killed a brand new spool $:-\$

Ron Jones · September 23, 2014, 05:52:29 AM

I believe that option 2 would work if there is enough material to make the 114 pinion fit. I think someone did something like this on here before for another reel. Basically, you could take a 114 spool and a 114HLW spool to a machine shop and have them make the HLW look exactly like the 114 on both sides (I believe only the right side will need to be modified.) Then you could bolt up the black side plates with factory gears. I don't know what gear sleeve the 114 uses but if it is available in stainless it would be a big plus.

I'm not sure what your fishing for, but this is a spendy solution that may or may not be worth it.
Ron

marc77 · September 23, 2014, 01:35:49 PM

O.K. guys, I will report back on how I make out with this. I realize that the squeeze may not be worth the juice, but I am still going to try it. We have a long winter coming up and spending time tinkering with my fishing reels is a good way to pass the time on those cold winter evenings.

I am looking for maximum cranking power in a 6/0 wide star drag reel. I already installed a long handle. I have a steel main gear from a 114, SS dog and a SS gear sleeve. If I can install a SS 114 pinion gear and leave the original spool spindle the same thickness, I will have accomplished my goal. The gear reduction will increase the cranking power by 25% (21" vs. 28" line recovery per handle turn).

While many guys are looking for higher gear ratio, I am looking for a lower gear ratio. My goal is to catch a 250 to 300 lbs big eye with this reel. I have caught them with 50W and 80W two speed reels. It is time to try something different. A friend of mine caught a 300# with this exact same reel with the original 2.8 to 1 gear ratio. It took him more than 2 hours to land that fish. With the lower gear ratio, I think I can do it in less time (and hopefully not have a heart attack during the fight).

Regards

George4741 · September 23, 2014, 04:23:55 PM

Marc, in the hands of a skilled machinist, I believe that turning the spindle of a 114HLW to fit a 114 is possible. One of our other members (John 2244) went the other way and modified a narrow Tiburon 114H spool so he could make his 114 narrower than stock. Judging from his experience, the wider spool mod is feasable.
George

Here is a link to John's reel. John, I hope you don't mind me promoting your reel.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6674.msg56739#msg56739