Penn International 80SW Problems

Started by handi2, October 05, 2014, 10:40:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

handi2

I received this reel to repair b/c the 2 speed function was not working and the handle would pull in and out easily without pushing the button. After opening the reel I saw there were no pins in the main gear shaft. I knew I had them so I went ahead servicing the reel.

When I got to the point of assembling the right side I cannot get the gear shaft, pins, plunger and button to assemble correctly. Even with the shift pins installed it stays in one gear or the other and will not shift. In fact most of the time I can't get the plunger to even stay in or even get the handle and button on b/c the plunger will not go in far enough. Something is wrong with this..!! I've done the 30SW and 50SW's with no problem.

What is the trick to the 80SW??

Help please..
OCD Reel Service & Repair
Gulf Breeze, FL

foakes

   
CHECKING AND RE-ALIGNING 80S-SW GEARS AFTER SERVICING
« on: October 19, 2012, 08:54:33 PM »
something from geoff!

Quote

Keith --

Will this help?

It is from Geoff and Alan, 10/19/12.

I have never had a problem with an International -- but have never done a 80SW -- sounds like a very complicated reel to align the gears and plunger pins. 

I think Alan may have some more information.

This may or may not be what you are looking for.

Best,

Fred



Alan,

I have been given an old Penn International 80SW 2-speed reel to service.  I used to have a 2-speed 50SW and remember reading a document that came with the reel detailing a  complicated procedure for aligning the gears on the 80SW.  Thought process then was never get one of those, surely they could have designed it better than that!  Anyway, now that I have one in for servicing it prompted me to find the alignment instructions.  I found the attached document on sportfishermen.com and thought it may be of interest. 

Regards,

Geoff.





Quote


CHECKING AND RE-ALIGNING 80S-SW GEARS AFTER SERVICING


Penn's International Two Speed SOS and 80SW reels utilize a multi-gear system that relies on precise alignment of all gear components. After you have dis-assembled and serviced the reel, you may need to re-align the gears for optimum performance of the Penn two speed gearing system. Due to its more compact size, the 50SW does not need this adjustment.

1.   Set the drag lever just past the free spool button to engage the drag. There should be just enough drag so it won't slip when you lightly push the spool forward by hand. Remove the four screws on left side plate access cover.

2.   With the reel on a flat surface, rotate and position the handle so that it is over the pre-set knob and is in alignment with the drag lever (9 or 10 o'clock position, with right side facing you). This is the recommended handle position for checking and fine tuning the alignment of the multi-gear system.

3.   Push the shift button and pull the handle out into the high speed position, exposing the two red grooves. Then push the shifter button and handle in, covering the outer red groove and partially covering the inner red groove. What you are doing here is purposely locking the handle. You should not be able to rotate the handle forward or backward when the handle is properly locked.

4.   Turn the reel so that the left side plate is on your right and apply forward pressure on the spool by lightly rotating it toward you until it comes to a stop. What you are doing is taking any extra play out of the spool.
5.   This is a most important step. It is necessary to keep pressure on the spool for steps 5, 6 and 7.

6.   Loosen, but do not remove, the two jam nut screws underneath the adjusting slot on the left side plate. A complete turn or two will suffice.

7.   Still keeping forward pressure on the spool, pull the adjusting pin up toward yourself until it stops against the top edge of the adjusting slot (closest to you). Now push the pin down, away from you, until you feel it contact a stop, which could be anywhere along the adjusting slot. Temporarily tighten the jam nut screw closest to the adjusting pin. Do not completely tighten up on this screw just yet; tighten just enough to "snug" the screw up.

8.   You are now ready to check the alignment of the gears. To check if your reel's gears are aligned, keep the shifter button pushed in while pushing and pulling the handle in and out. Be sure the handle is rotated to the proper position, as described in step 2. Remember to keep forward pressure on the spool while doing this.

9.   If shifting is smooth, keep forward pressure on spool and tighten both jam nuts securely. Use as large a screwdriver as possible for this step to ensure that screws are properly and securely tightened.

If shifting is not to your satisfaction, draw a temporary reference line on the frame, close to the spool, with a fine felt tip pen.

Go back to shifting the handle in and out again, as in step 7, but instead of keeping forward pressure on the spool, rotate spool backward and forward in small increments while shifting.

In doing this you will notice that when the spool is in a certain position, the handle will shift the smoothest. You should not have to move the spool back and forth more than 1 /4 inch to find this optimum position. This is where you want the spool to be for the smoothest shifting.

Once you have found this position, hold spool securely in that position and put mark on the spool with the felt tip pen to match the mark you had previously put on the frame. Lock handle again, as in step 3.

10.   Loosen the one lock nut screw you had tightened and move the adjusting pin, which now will move the spool, in the direction that will line up the mark on the spool with the mark on the frame.
While holding the adjusting pin and/or spool to keep both marks aligned with each other, tighten both lock nuts securely. Use as large a screwdriver as possible to ensure that screws are properly and securely tightened. Re-check to make sure marks on frame and spool are aligned.


Wipe off marks on frame and spool and re-check above steps until gears are properly aligned and shifting is smooth.
   

Periodically examine your International and check for any loose screws or fittings. Depending upon use, your reel should be overhauled at least once every season.

Frequently lubricate all frictional points on your International II. A few spots on your International II to pay special attention to for in-season lubrication are:

1.   the oil port on the handle knob
2.   the free, strike and full buttons on the quadrant—push buttons up and down while adding a few drops of lubricant
3.   the friction areas on the underside of the click button
4.   the friction area under the shifter button—add a few drops of lubricant while pushing button in and out.

For best results, use Penn Reels lubricant. Penn's tubes of lube are just the ticket for lubricating oil ports and applying a few drops of oil where they will do the most good. Remember, only a few drops of oil are sufficient in most cases. Do not over lubricate!
SERVICING YOUR INTERNATIONAL II TWO SPEED REEL


When it's time for servicing, most International owners opt for either a reputable Penn dealer in their area or factory servicing from Penn. See the Service Out of Warranty section for details.

Penn International reels are precision instruments that rely on exacting alignment of numerous components having extremely close tolerances. Internal servicing, such as changing drag washers, replacing worn or broken parts, etc., is best left in the hands of experts in repairing International reels.

All of these service technicians have their own methods, styles and tricks in servicing and repairing Internationals, so there's not really much to tell them here, except to recommend that they use Penn's Blue Grease for internal moving parts, such as gear teeth, the click assembly, the gear stud assembly, etc. Not only is Blue Grease waterproof and long lasting, but it always maintains a constant viscosity and won't run, even if the reel gets scorching hot.

The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

handi2

Thank you for the post but I still cant get it to work correctly. As it is now you can just pull the handle in and out to change speeds. The reel has been highly used and I believe the worn parts are part of the problem. The holes for the shift pins are worn. The grooves inside the tube where the gear shaft goes thru are worn and have gouges. If I had longer shift pins it might work. I'm using the pins for the cam..
OCD Reel Service & Repair
Gulf Breeze, FL

foakes

Hey, Keith --

Sounds like you have done a good job of diagnosis --

Even with longer plunger shift pins, there is still going to be slop in those worn tube holes.  And with the gouged grooves, who knows what other issues are not readily apparent?

Sounds to me like time for new parts -- in my opinion, anything worn in the shift tube area should be new.

You obviously know your client -- but I wouldn't want a comeback on any reel, if I could help it -- especially an International.

The amount of money spent for these Internationals --blueprinting, rods, other gear, boats, gas, trips, airfare, hotels, and it just goes on -- means a slightly more expensive fix would serve well.

Anyway, you are the Pilot in Command -- an extremely experienced expert, with the reel in hand -- please let us know how things turn out.

Great pictures!

Best,

Fred




The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

handi2

Thank you Fred an you are right. I believe this reel has seen it's best days. You can still use it and shift it "automatically"..!!

Now if I could only get you over here to organize my thousands of parts..!! Most of the time I stay too busy to stop and put things in their place.
OCD Reel Service & Repair
Gulf Breeze, FL

Controlled Chaos

Funny Im having the same problem with an 80STW that I bought on ebay a while back. It never worked right. I can't get the gears aligned properly and I've gone through the process listed above at least 20 times. It's definitely frustrating. It's sitting in my garage for now until I can muster up the patience to get back to it.

Tightlines667

Keith,
Were you able to get the shifting problem with the 80SW all sorted out?  If so what parts did you need to replace?  Bridge (w/integral gear stud sleeve), gear stud, locating pins, handle screw, plunger cap, plunger, plunger spring, conical spring, retaining clip, or thrust washer?

Controlled Chaos,
The 80STW is an altogether different beast then the SW.  It does not require the gear alignment procedure detailed above.  If you are having troubles shifting the 80STW check the following:

1)Ensure that the handle screw is perfectly flush (flange not bent and at 90 deg) when tightened
2)gear stud bushing is not damaged (both internal groves show no marring/corrosion)
3)gear stud is not excessively worn (no lateral movement, obvious groves/marring
4)plunger is not corroded or damaged, and moves freely within the gear stud
5)locator pins are both present and not damaged
6)inside of gear stud is properly lubricated (lightly greased)
7)alignment/spacing is correct

You might try testing the mechanism by assembling everything outside of the right side plate assembly first
Then assemble everything except the outter bearing and hold the gear stud bushing down while attempting to shift, this way you can see if the spacing along the entire mech is correct.  If not a shim or two could be used to correct the problem. 

The elegance in this shifting mechanism is it's simplicity and ruggedness.  Usually shifting issues in the STW are easily correctable.  Excessive corrosion in the bearing pockets of the bridge, or side plate can sometimes be corrected with shimming, but may require replacement of these expensive parts.  If your still having troubles, post a few pics, or you could send the reel to me.  I'd be happy to take a look, if you could cover shipping costs. 
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

handi2

The reel belonged to Pompano Joe and he is on this forum. He does reel repair also in my town. He picked it up and told me he finally got it going right. I don't know what he did. The inside of the gear shaft where the pins would seat and move was badly torn up and gouged. It may have been replaced.

Thanks,

Tightlines
OCD Reel Service & Repair
Gulf Breeze, FL