114 - 6/0 and 9/0 upgrades

[Sin bin fishing ri]

First time poster, loooong time lurker here.

I've searched this site and a few others high and low.  I see 114L, 114H, 114W but nothing just plain 114...

I have a couple regular 114 reels, 6/0 senators and 1 9/0 senator.

For my winter project i'm looking to upgrade drags in all (pretty sure they all take the HT-100) and get metal frames.
I'd rather upgrade I think then shell out for newer reels. for now anyway.

looking for some advice on where to get parts, best price for the parts.  I've looked at Tiburon, ebay, scotts...

They're all seen regular service but I was unimpressed with the drags on the 6/0s when we got into a couple bigger than normal fish this summer. 

I've never taken apart the senators or any of my other conventional , only my spinning reels I have.  Worse come to worse If I cannot get it back together and working properly I can take it to my engineer bother in law and worst worst case our local outfitter who has done all the routine servicing in the past for help.

Kind of a ramble here, but if someone would like to give some advice and help I'd be very appreciative.

[Shark Hunter]

Welcome Sin Bin!
That 9/0 has a lots of potential. There are gears and parts on here that can make that into a 50lb drag capable beast. You can always keep it stock and put in a 5 stack drag upgrade and it will pull 20 lbs of drag easy. As far as the 6/0, the drags and gears in that reel are not near as powerful as a 114H. Cruze around in the senator section, there is tons of info there.
You have any questions, just ask. Dawn from smoothdrag can help you too with drag upgrades.

[Bryan Young]

Regarding the 114, currently there isn't a thin metal drag washer available to create a 7-stack drag set for inside of the main gear for that reel.  I had a bunch cut, and my measurement was off, so I'm trying to make back the $1k loss to I could get those re-cut again. 

The 114 5-stack should be able to produce about 20# of drag.  If you are thinking of any upgrades, my first would be to install a stainless steel gear sleeve and stainless steel AR pawl.  You really shouldn't need anything else unless you are able to fit a 7-stack drag in the reel.

[ZaneG]

You might have trouble finding a upgraded frame for the 9/0 they are kind of hard to come by from what I can tell.

I would like to get one of those myself.

[Alto Mare]

Lee (Keta) should have inserts for the main gear for the 114, those are very similar to the Penn Versa-Drag System. Using the insert that reel will give you over 30lb of drag and it could handle it. Get yourself a stainless steel gear sleeve, stainless steel dog, an insert with the custom cut washers and you'll be set.
If your reel has steel gears that would be a plus, just make sure you keep those well greased.

If Bryan makes the 7 washers kit  available again, that would be your best bet.It would be much easier for you to deal with Bryan's kit and it would give the same drag numbers as the insert.

Sal

[George4741]

I have a 1+7 drag set-up in my 114.  I used some #21 carbontex washers, enlarged the holes in them so they would fit on the gear sleeve, and pulled over 30 lbs drag.  I also installed an Accurate frame to beef it up. 

Check out my notes with the third photo in the following link:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=4627.msg36006#msg36006

Regards,
George

[Bryan Young]

I completely forgot about your post.  Maybe I can make up a few kits at a time if I don't have to cut a 1000 washers to make it anywhere near affordable.  I'm gonna have to check this out.

[Sin bin fishing ri]

Thank you for the input all.

lots to think about.

[George4741]

If you don't want to enlarge the holes in the #21 carbontex washers, then the #20B carbontex (also .020 thick) will drop in without modification. The main gear in my reel is so deep that I have several HT100 washers (.040 thick) in the mix to take up space.  I just pulled my 114 apart and this is how I have the washers arranged:

HT100, keyed washer, carbontex, eared washer, carbontex, keyed, HT100, eared, carbontex, keyed, carbontex, eared, HT100, keyed.  It also has an HT100 under the main gear.  BTW all of the metal washers are standard Penn items.  If you don't want to do the 1+7 drag washer arrangement, then at least make sure you have HT100 washers installed and lubed with Cal's grease.  Many of the older reels have asbestos washers.  

Add a stainless gear sleeve, Accurate or Tiburon frame, maybe double dog it, and you have the toughest 114 on the block.  One of our members (John2244) had a machinist modify a Tiburon 114H narrow spool kit to fit his 114.  Neat stuff!

 

[Sin bin fishing ri]

So I got some cals and the proper CF ( +1) washers for my senators  Skipped the aluminum frames for now and i busted open my first 6/0.

Replaced the washer between the main gear with the CF washer. Greased the HT100 CF washers. So it's basically a 5 +1

Now when I reassemble I cannot get the last none ht100 washer to fit.  It's the one on the extreme outside of the reel/drag with the lip and little felt ring... Is this one imperative? Should it still be fitting and I did something wrong? Too much cals?

One further, when I break out the weight and scale it's coming in at like 12lbs of drag.  I haven't cross checked that with the untouched other 6/0 yet.

[Shark Hunter]

Some pictures will help here. Sounds like you have the stack out of order. The top hat, which is what I think you are saying won't fit, is imperative for drag performance.

[George4741]

Now when I reassemble I cannot get the last none ht100 washer to fit.  It's the one on the extreme outside of the reel/drag with the lip and little felt ring... Is this one imperative? Should it still be fitting and I did something wrong? Too much cals?

The metal washer with the felt ring is mainly used as a spacer sleeve to take up excess space. A 5+1 washer stack shouldn't take up that much space so maybe your last eared washer isn't sitting inside the main gear. In the following photo (this is from a 113H, but same principle) the last eared washer is sitting inside the main gear and the last HT100 and keyed washer are on top of that. This is OK, as all of the washers function properly. Sometimes when installing the bridge in the sideplate, the last eared washer moves out of place and the ears ride on top of the main gear. That also creates low drag numbers. I get about 36 lbs drag with my 114.  



I believe the felt ring is meant to help keep out salt spray and crud and some folks leave it off or discard it when damaged. Also, too much Cal's will squeeze out and shouldn't be a problem.

[Keta]

I completely forgot about your post.  Maybe I can make up a few kits at a time if I don't have to cut a 1000 washers to make it anywhere near affordable.  I'm gonna have to check this out.

If you can't I can have small batches cut.

[Sin bin fishing ri]

so I think I've successfully reassembled a 113H and a 114.  however, when you crank the handle, the spool no longer has that soft 'click' it used to make... did I over do it with the grease? or worse?

[Shark Hunter]

Grease on the dog quiets that clicking down.