charter special tr 1000/2000

Started by alantani, December 07, 2008, 04:25:58 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Squidh90 and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

braz13

Hi Barry
If you send a private message to Alan, he'll take care of you, I've had a couple of orders from Alan now and can't find fault, brilliant products and brilliant service.

Cheers
Brian

swill88

Quote from: Barrywa115 on February 23, 2018, 08:06:34 PM
Braz,

I own a CS1000 & CS2000.  These handles and frames look awesome.  How do I sign myself up for a set of these upgrades?


Welcome Barrywa115...  Brian is right... do what he says.

steve


Barrywa115


Barrywa115

Hi all,
I have a CS2000 that has just decided to provide me with a learning opportunity.

The reel freespools even when the drag lever is engaged. If I crank the handle, the spool moves but I can stop it with my thumb, and it freely spins backwards. If I position the drag lever to freespool, tighten the drag setting, then set the drag lever to strike, the reel still frespools. It is as if the main gear is disengaged.

Also, if I shake the reel it sounds like a ball from one of the bearings is rolling around near the main gear. I am going to take the reel apart tomorrow to see what is going on. Any thoughts on what might be causing the problem would be appreciated.

alantani

there is a soft stainless steel "plug" that locks the main gear in place relative to the drive shaft.  sometimes it pops out.  if you can tap it back in, then take a punch and hammer and give it a couple of good whacks, it should work again. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Barrywa115

Ok. I think I found the SS plug. It was about a 1/2 fingernail thickness from flush. I popped it a few times with a punch. That seemed to work.  Thanks! (I'm new to posting. I tried to insert a photo here but couldn't figure it out. I attached a photo.)

So I rebuilt the reel and swapped out the frame and handle. There were 3 washers on the main shaft (#154), 2 preload spring washers (#44) and preload washer (#72).  The thickness of the two spring washers measured 1.73mm. The replacement spring washers measured 2.35mm.  So slightly thicker. I reassembled the reel using the 2 thicker cupped washers and the preload washer (#72). The rebuild assembly is 0.62 mm thicker than the stock washer assembly.

The handle turns freely when the drag lever is in free spool but the handle gets hard to turn when the drag lever is in the strike position. I think I need to go back and remove the flat washer (#72) and try it again. Is there anything else that could be causing the handle to be hard to turn with drag but okay in free spool?


alantani

sounds like you have a bad pinion bearing. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Barrywa115

Okay, thanks for sharing.  Smooth drag sells the right side and drag plate as a set (#75) soIll try that and post the results.

Barrywa115

Hi all,
I found the problem with the "hard-to-turn" handle. With the reel disassembled, the spool would spin freely on the shaft until I tightened the click gear screws. The clearance at the click gear cap was ever so slightly too tight.

I remembered Alan Tani's instruction to make the total drag stack as close to the original thickness as possible.  I removed the preload washer(#72) and reinstalled the click gear cap. The spool spun freely with #72 removed so I put the reel back together and the handle worked fine.

Here are the drags washer thicknesses I measured:
Original drag spring washers (#44): 1.73 mm
Original flat preload washer   (#72): 0.50 mm
Upgrade drag spring washers (#44): 2.35 mm

As you can see, the original set up was 2.23 mm; the problem set up was 2.85 mm and the final set up is 2.35 mm.

With the rebuild complete I set up the drag, again learning from this website (thank you).  I put the reel on a rod and rigged up a pole holder angled at approx 45 degrees. Then I hooked a 10lb downrigger ball and
set the drag so that the weight slowly pulls line out. 5 ft in 5 seconds or a little slower. Close enough. Below,is a photo of a CS 2000LD with Alan's custom frame, custom handle and drag upgrade. The quality of the AT parts is impressive. Thanks for all of your help.

Barrywa115

Sorry about the upside down pics.   :-\ if you click on the paper clip (bottom left) it comes out better.

FishTremble

Hi, Alan, glad I found this thread!

Working on mine, I see I got a couple things wrong. Loved the picture of opening the bearings for re-lube and the belvilles (I dropped mine before I noted how they go)!

I have two quick questions:
Mine has a small hole, ~3mm between the middle quadrant screw and the upper drag stop button. What is this for? Did I lose something that goes in it? Doesn't that let water in? (That's supposed to be one question?  :-\

Second, the pinion gear has a short cut on one end and a long cut on the other (no dog jokes, please)  ;D Which end goes in the spool cap and which end faces out?

Thanks again and keep up the great work!

Swami805

I'm going to service my charter special but the pictures in the tutorial are gone. Is there some trick or can I find them elsewhere? Thanks
Do what you can with that you have where you are

Wolli

This will help you

love jigging    www.jupiter-sunrise-lodge.com/de/
Authorized Jigging Master Service Partner (in Germany)

Swami805

Do what you can with that you have where you are

Sweden Trolling

Quote from: alantani on December 07, 2008, 04:25:58 PM
first, the schematic from shimano....

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TR_2000LD-ARB_v1_m56577569830570239.pdf

here's a stock charter special.  these reels had seen several years of service and were in pretty bad shape.  the handle turned easily on one but was rough on the other.  freespool time on one was only a few seconds, but that is par for most levelwind reels. the freespool was zero on the other.  both reels had pretty jumpy drags, even at a light setting.  not a good thing for salmon.  



the first thing to come off is the lever assembly, including the pre-program dial (key #115), the dial spring (key #82), the lever shaft body and "O" seal (keys #116 and 10), the drag control lever (key #117) and the lever thrust ring (key #84).



remove the lever quadrant (key #121) and screws (keys #19, 20 and 21).



back out the five side plate screws (key #122) and remove the right side plate as a unit.



remove the spool assembly as a unit.



note the wear marks on the right side of the spool.  



it is a common problem for these graphite frames to "swell."  i use a dremel and the cutting bit #117 to cut away at the inside of the graphite frame, just enough so that the spool doesn't rub.



add a little grease to the metal clicker assembly (keys #140 and 209).



remove the spool cap and drag pressure plate as a unit.  note the reverse threads.



here's a photo of the original canvas drag washer next to a penn ht-100 drag washer (part #6-5600).  use a dremel to hand cut the inside hole to match the stock canvas shimano washer.  note that you can now buy a carbon fiber drag washer from smoothdrag.com



back out the four click gear screws (key #135), remove the click gear (key # 134) and the main shaft assembly.





the shields of the three spool bearings can be removed and you can see the dried grease inside.



after cleaning out the grease with carb cleaner and compressed air, the bearings can be lubed with corrosion x or reel x.



switching out thin pre-load washers (bellevilles) for thicker ones will ramp up the drag pressure more quickly and give you a higher drag at strike before you lose freespool.  the thin preload washer B's (key #44) on the right will be switched out for the thicker preload washers from the shimano tld 20/30 two speed reels (part # tt-0040A).  the orientation of these belleville pressure washers remains "()".



interestingly, the thickness of the stack of thin bellevilles....



is about the same as the thick bellevilles....



here is the reassembled washer stack with bearing. reinstall the spool shaft assembly, the click gear, the two right side spool bearings (keys #213) and spring (key #37).



those of you that prefer a dry drag can either re-install a new canvas washer (part #tld-0129) or use a the penn ht-100 without grease.  my preference remains to grease this washer using shimano or cal's drag grease, applying a thick coat to both sides of the drag washer.



install the gooped up washer.



wipe off all the excess drag grease until drag washer basically looks dry.



now, just a side bar comment.  note the rubber gasket of the spool cap....



and the metal lip on the drag pressure plate assembly.



when the drag lever is at strike and the reel is engaged, this metal lip mates up with the rubber gasket and seals up the drag chamber to keep water out.  the take home message is this.  rinsed off your shimano lever drag reels in the "strike" position.  all other lever drag reels should be rinsed in "free."

here's an example in the second reel that was probably rinsed with the lever in the "free" position.  note the rust in the right spool bearings.  



install the pressure plate assembly.



install the spool cap and pinion gear.



install cross pin B (key #50) and place the spool assembly back into the frame.  the spool should slide easily back into the frame.  

IF THE SPOOL DOES NOT SLIDE EASILY BACK INTO THE FRAME, ROTATE THE SPOOL SHAFT 180 DEGREES AND TRY AGAIN.  

this works.  i have no frickin' idea why!

now, this reel felt like a coffee grinder when you turned the handle.  this rusted right main side plate bearing (key #212) is the reason.  to get the to bearing, you have to remove the handle.  




remove the handle lock screw (key #1), the handle lock (key #2), the handle nut (key #3), the gear shaft shield (key #5), the gear shaft thrust washer (key #6) and the main gear (key #8).  the dog (key #26) and the brake collar (key #190) will fall out as well.



pry out the right side plate bearing.





the old bearing was too badly rusted, so i pulled out a new one....



and packed it with heavy grease.



reinstall the new bearing and dog.



install the main gear, the rotate the dog clockwise until the gear "drops" into place.



install the handle assembly.



install the brake collar.



reinstall the right side plate.



install the quadrant.



install the lever and pre-set dial.  make sure the lever is in the free position and drop the lever shaft body into the lever so that they mate up.  



there are several handle options available.  be creative!





the spools of both reels will now spin easily.  both of these reels have only 5 seconds of freespool, but that is because of levelwind mechanism.  without the levelwind assembly, the spools probably would spin for 30 seconds.  both now have a max drag at strike of 15 pounds before losing freespool.  and both have a smooth drag from 1 pound up to 15 pounds.   the total time required for service, including time to clean out the bearings, was an hour.