charter special tr 1000/2000

[fishy76]

Last thought without seeing the reel would be the cross pin in the left side plate.  does the shaft and cross pin move in and out of the frame freely?  Frames do swell, and this could be a contributory culprit.

Hey Bryan,  Sure hope there's a solution to my problem.  I changed the spool including the cross pin to a different body/left end cap, and of course, exchanged the pinion gear.  Still wondering if the shaft could be bent?  Guess that's a next exchange of the shaft and bearings from one spool to another.  Yet, I've exchanged so many things that I don't know for sure who's on first, etc., yet the problem shifts with the spool  change .  .  .?

[fishy76]

Last thought without seeing the reel would be the cross pin in the left side plate.  does the shaft and cross pin move in and out of the frame freely?  Frames do swell, and this could be a contributory culprit.

Hey Bryan,

Checking the shafts, I found that the right spool and the pinion bearings were quite tight on the shaft.  Went back to the old bearings that slip easily on the shaft and with other minor changes, both reels work perfectly now.  So much for installing new bearings and thinking it solved a problem.  Do I understand what corrected the condition?  Nope!

Thanks for your suggestions.

                                        Fishy76

[Mikeflorian]

Hi Alan , just did you upgrades to the topples tr 2000 I got from Tom. Belleville washers,spacer and Dawns drag washer. Took about an hour.( I was taking my time as not to have problems ). Very noticeable increase in drag. Thank you . Now I just have to wait for the bigger fish to come in .Spooled it with 60lb braid 40 fluorocarbon top shot .

[Bryan Young]

Last thought without seeing the reel would be the cross pin in the left side plate.  does the shaft and cross pin move in and out of the frame freely?  Frames do swell, and this could be a contributory culprit.

Hey Bryan,

Checking the shafts, I found that the right spool and the pinion bearings were quite tight on the shaft.  Went back to the old bearings that slip easily on the shaft and with other minor changes, both reels work perfectly now.  So much for installing new bearings and thinking it solved a problem.  Do I understand what corrected the condition?  Nope!

Thanks for your suggestions.

                                        Fishy76

Sorry Fishy, for some reason, my system did not pick up your posting.  That's odd regarding the bearings, but if the bearings are not sliding, then it's a problem.  Looks like you solved it...not why are the bearing IDs smaller on the new bearings.  bad batch?

[Mikeflorian]

Just finished upgrading Toms topless charter special with Alan's upgrades bev washers thrust washers and Dawns drag washer . Real noticeable difference in the drag. Also Alan's new handles are very nice and reasonable. Now 2 find some big fish!

[CaptKev]

I own 6 of these reels. After somewhat pushing the capabilities of this reel to the limit for a season, I replaced the main and pinion gears as well as the pinion bearing (RH side). They function perfectly, but I can feel the gears when cranking. There's no grinding or binding, it just doesn't feel like new. With the new gears and bearing, it's a major improvement over the coffee grinder feel they had before, but they are not like new. The remaining 3 spool bearings are original, no shields, and do not appear to be shot.

I've not heard of anyone replacing the other bearings so am I missing something? Anyone have the measurements for the other bearings? I'm done buying bearings from Shimano at $10-$15 a shot.

Thanks in advance, Kevin     

[erikpowell]

maybe the new gears just need to break in a bit....  malaysia factor.. 
and if you packed your bearings nicely, that always seems to transmit more gear noise than when they were new..
I like the more "positive" sound and feel of fully greased bearings.... 
it's like a Whirrrrrrr whirrrrrr whirrrrrrr  with ummph when you crank.
...you did pack the bearings didn't you?

[CaptKev]

These reels spent 1 season killing dozens of troll caught Albies. Many times I'd watch the fish hit and immediately notice the customers would have the drag lever shoved WWWAAAYYY fwd. Maybe the extra drag pressures wore the other bearings enough to misalign the spool to the main gear? The bearings seems very smooth, but maybe they're not!   

Yes, I packed the main bearing and left the shields off. I think the new "Shimano" bearings were ABEC 1. Maybe I could find a 5 or higher replacement? Because I casted occasionally, I oiled the 2 spool bearings and the LH side bearing. I may just order one set of new bearings and see what it does? Albies can be brutal on reels when trolling 7-9 knots and the darn things strike at 20 knots. I had demodify the reels back to stock drags to avoid snapping leaders and spectra main line.

Anyone have the bearing measurements handy? 

[erikpowell]

Heya Kev,
Yeah, I've not been impressed with my last few batches of shimano replacement bearings.. I have replaced bearings with new ones only to have to swap them out with another new one while testing...they feel smooth when new, but they don't like the axial load of a high drag setting.

not to mention PIA pressed on shields and plastic races that blow apart when I try to pry off the pressed in shields.. 

You'll be much better off ordering your bearings from Dawn at Smoothdrag...
She has what you're after:

1 ea 7x14x5 & 5x11x4               Set #45  $17.00       
Shimano Charter Specal 1000 2000       

1 ea 5x11x4 & 7x17x5               Set #75  $17.00       
Shimano TLD 5 & 10                       
Charter Special 1000 2000                       
           
Hope this helps .....

Erik

[CaptKev]

Thanks Erik, exactly what I needed.

The replacement bearings were SS, but they sure didn't seem very precision when I put them.

[CaptKev]

I think I've found my problem to the noisy gears. SO just replaced the 4 bearings in the worst offender. They were SS ABEC 7 grade. Put it back together and no change whatsoever

>:(Now I'm really pissed off! I opened a brew, took a swig and pondered this. After cranking the handle out of frustration 100's of times, I noticed some play in the handle. Moving the handle, I noticed it moved a little more than 1/16" on the long end. I removed the handle and rocked the main gear shaft back and forth. Guess what? There's more than just a touch of play. I compared the 6 reels and discovered the noise was worse in the reels with the gear shaft play. Well, Albie damned! I suspect that after hundreds of fish, customers cranking with high drag pressures, the brass/bronze bushing in the RH side plate (p/n TLD0188 $7.85) has enlarged just enough to misalign the main to the pinion. This would explain why the reel functions perfectly and why I seem to be eating gears more often than I think I should.   Naturally, I don't have an extra side plate laying around so I'll order new ones. As my luck goes, the Shimano parts ordering system seems to be down at the moment. My pint is about finished and so is my post. When I get the part installed, I'll report back. I'm about 99% sure that is the problem. Should be like new when I'm done, I HOPE!

I love the reel, but it's not very special for extensive charter use.   

[whalebreath]

I think I've found my problem to the noisy gears......I love the reel, but it's not very special for extensive charter use.   

Thanks for that Kev-been following this and shaking my head @ people who would use a Charter Special for Tuna-it's not what they're made for.

[CaptKev]

Much of our Albacore avg 20# not the big uns. For all the abuse these reels took, they served me very well. Tuna + 4/0 Kolekar handles...it was a bit much to ask. If they're like new with new side plates, they may go back to being salmon reels. Waiting for the brown Santa truck.

[CaptKev]

UPDATE...

I rec'd the new sideplates and installed it on the worst offender...that solved my problem! It's ALMOST like brand new, but a gazillion times better than it was. A closer look at the old bronze bearing in the sideplate showed the hole was somewhat distorted, out of round which created the extra play at the gear to pinion junction. I'd guess the drag upgrade and Kolekar handle was a bit much for this reel. I'll install new plates on the other reels soon.

The new sideplate was $7.85 from Shimano. I love their $3 S/H for most stuff, woohoo!

[alantani]

from bruce barna......

Alan -

Got the rest of the drag washers.  Thank you.  Also, after much consternation, I finally resolved the issue with the lack of free spool on some of my Charter Special LD reels (four out of five).   I'm not set up to post material to your tutorial site but perhaps you will want to share some of this with the folks there.  It would have saved me a lot of time to know and I see others encountering similar problems in some of the discussions.

The problem was arising with spacing on the left end when the new Belleville washers are installed.  All of my reels (four 2000 models and one 1000 model) had three brass washers installed around the Bellevilles, two thin ones at 0.008 inches +/- 0.001 and one at 0.020 inches.  Although the Shimano diagram is not very clear as to exactly how they are to be installed, it appears that all of the reels had the two thin washers stacked together against the pre-load body (132).  This would make them pre-load washer B (43) and the thick one would be pre-load washer A (72). 

When I tried to reinstall all of the washers, the assembly would rub against the click gear (134) and cause drag on the spool.  It's very easy to find out if this is occurring without reassembling the entire reel by just spinning the main shaft (154) by hand  once the click gear is installed along with the bearing on the right end of the spool (213).  On two of my reels, the drag was substantial, on the other three it was noticeable but not severe.  Two of them would have been ok for trolling but would have had less than maximum free spool.

 

On all five reels, the problem was solved by removing one of the washers.  On four of the reels I had to remove the thick washer (72) and on the fifth reel I could get by with only removing one of the thin ones (43).  Once you know what you are looking for, it is very easy to check for free spool by spinning the shaft but also by checking for a few thousandths of play end to end on the shaft.  On one of my reels, I had removed the thick washer and the end play seemed excessive so I went back in to substitute a thick washer for one of the thin ones but the drag came back so I had to stick with the two thin ones.  On only one of my reels was I able to reinstall the thick washer.  On all five of the reels then, I could only put two of the three washers back and maintain zero drag on the spool.  In all cases I placed one of the washers on either side of the pair of Bellevilles, the left one to serve as a wear plate and the right one to serve as a thrust washer against the bearing.  For the one reel that could handle a thick washer, it was used as the thrust washer against the bearing.

As you are certainly aware, the end play is not critical in this situation except that you must have some to get maximum free spool.  A little extra is not going to hurt anything since the drag setting at strike will pull the assembly away from the click gear anyhow.  I was a bit surprised at the variation in the thin washers from 0.007 to 0.009 inches and wonder if the factory assembly workers would have a selection available to them so they could adjust end play on the shaft.  Normally I wouldn't even consider such a possibility but the quality of this reel really impresses me.  Mine are over 25 years old and they show no signs of needing replacement.

In the process of searching for the source of the problem on my reels, I spent a fair amount of time looking for a rub spot on the frame.  Thinking that it could be a high spot that I was missing with the Dremel, I changed to a dowel  (1 3/4 inch) with a wrap of fine sandpaper.  This worked a lot better for me at making sure that both the left and right sides were being done parallel and that I was catching the high spots.  It might also be useful for those who may not own a Dremel.

I really appreciate the tutorial.  Thanks for all your help.

Bruce Barna, PE