aluminum butt

Started by Topshot, November 27, 2014, 05:30:23 AM

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Topshot

Has anybody ever put a parabloic rod or vertical jigging rod in a unibutt. I know a lot bend into the handle and was wondering if it would be to much stress on the rod. Ive seen travel vertical jigging rods that have 2 piece reel seats so I assume it should be ok. I plan on putting a 500g rainshadow knife jigging blank in a #1 unibutt. I plan to cut cut the blank from the bottom to achieve an over all 5'6" rod
Many men fish all their lives without ever realizing that it is not the fish they are after.
Michael Baughman

Jeri

Hi  Topshot,

Generally, there is no reason why it shouldn't work, we build a lot of travel rods with detachable butts – HOWEVER!

A lot of rod blanks are built with counter wrapping of carbon or glass, or both at the very bottom of the blank to give strength to that area. Typically a trolling blank would have counter wraps to beef up the blank where it goes into the uni-butt.

I'm not familiar with the Rain Shadow blank, but as it is built and designed as a single piece – I would suspect that the designer had not intended for it to be shortened by such a considerable amount. So, the results might be that once you have cut the blank, you will end up with a joint that is on an un-strengthened section of the blank – with potential for failure – especially as being a 500gm design. You might find that the finished rod will only be capable of taking  say a 300gm jig.

If your aim is to build a rod that is 2 piece out of a 1 piece blank, then it might be possible, by just splitting the blank above the reel seat position and inserting a solid carbon ferrule – which is what we have done with a number of rods, the ferrule then goes into the upper section, but needs to be taper ground to match perfectly the taper of the inside of the blank. We have done this with thick wall 'stand-up' blanks, with some success – but the ferrule needs to be solid carbon.

Because you are going away from the designer's original intent, you might well find that the whole experiment fails – as the blank hasn't sufficient wall thickness to stand the ferrule option, and the blank will split. It is something that you have to consider – failure of the blank to take the new loads you are putting on the rod.

Nearly every blank that is designed as a 2 piece or more, has reinforcement at the joints. When we do this with our surf blanks, taking a 1 piece design to a 3 piece travel design, we add considerable amounts of carbon at the joints, as the inner component usually tries to pull out through the outer component of the joint. Adding reinforcement to a 1 piece blank after you have cut it, would be the issue – with the ferrule idea, you could consider getting a stainless steel sleeve that would fit over the blank tightly, to act as the reinforcement???

Chopping up blanks is not for the faint hearted, you usually end up with some failures, and that starts to get expensive.



Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

Topshot

Quote from: Jeri on November 27, 2014, 06:27:10 AM
Hi  Topshot,

Generally, there is no reason why it shouldn't work, we build a lot of travel rods with detachable butts – HOWEVER!

A lot of rod blanks are built with counter wrapping of carbon or glass, or both at the very bottom of the blank to give strength to that area. Typically a trolling blank would have counter wraps to beef up the blank where it goes into the uni-butt.

I'm not familiar with the Rain Shadow blank, but as it is built and designed as a single piece – I would suspect that the designer had not intended for it to be shortened by such a considerable amount. So, the results might be that once you have cut the blank, you will end up with a joint that is on an un-strengthened section of the blank – with potential for failure – especially as being a 500gm design. You might find that the finished rod will only be capable of taking  say a 300gm jig.

If your aim is to build a rod that is 2 piece out of a 1 piece blank, then it might be possible, by just splitting the blank above the reel seat position and inserting a solid carbon ferrule – which is what we have done with a number of rods, the ferrule then goes into the upper section, but needs to be taper ground to match perfectly the taper of the inside of the blank. We have done this with thick wall 'stand-up' blanks, with some success – but the ferrule needs to be solid carbon.

Because you are going away from the designer's original intent, you might well find that the whole experiment fails – as the blank hasn't sufficient wall thickness to stand the ferrule option, and the blank will split. It is something that you have to consider – failure of the blank to take the new loads you are putting on the rod.

Nearly every blank that is designed as a 2 piece or more, has reinforcement at the joints. When we do this with our surf blanks, taking a 1 piece design to a 3 piece travel design, we add considerable amounts of carbon at the joints, as the inner component usually tries to pull out through the outer component of the joint. Adding reinforcement to a 1 piece blank after you have cut it, would be the issue – with the ferrule idea, you could consider getting a stainless steel sleeve that would fit over the blank tightly, to act as the reinforcement???

Chopping up blanks is not for the faint hearted, you usually end up with some failures, and that starts to get expensive.



Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri


Do you think some of this carbon rod inserted inside the bottom of the blank would reinforce it enough. I figure the rod only goes into the ferrule of the uni butt about 3 inchs. So maybe a foot long section would help the rod flex a little less into the handle section
Many men fish all their lives without ever realizing that it is not the fish they are after.
Michael Baughman

Ron Jones

As Jeri said, you can do this and it should work, but it may go badly. 5'6" overall with an unibut is really short. I don't think there would be much of the rod backbone left. Batson actually loves to talk to people, if you call them I sure you can come up with something. Remember, what your asking is kind of different so give them a moment to get their head wrapped around it.

Ron
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"

Topshot

Quote from: noyb72 on November 27, 2014, 04:53:52 PM
As Jeri said, you can do this and it should work, but it may go badly. 5'6" overall with an unibut is really short. I don't think there would be much of the rod backbone left. Batson actually loves to talk to people, if you call them I sure you can come up with something. Remember, what your asking is kind of different so give them a moment to get their head wrapped around it.

Ron

Giving them a call would be a smart idea. I really think it would be ok. I've built the same blank before and used an alps aluminum reel seat and the end of the reel seat sat at the same point on the blank aswhere the the blank would be epoxyed into the unibutt ferrule.
Many men fish all their lives without ever realizing that it is not the fish they are after.
Michael Baughman

SoCalAngler

I have to ask why do you want a aluminum butt on a jigging rod? Do you need the rod to break down for travel?

This would make the rod heavy and not comfortable to fish all day IMO.

Cutting blanks as stated opens up a whole can of worms and will change the action of the blank, usually not for the better. If you already have the blank I could maybe see doing this but if your going to buy a blank then make a rod why not go with a blank that is 5.5' to start with?

Topshot

Quote from: SoCalAngler on November 27, 2014, 05:57:38 PM
I have to ask why do you want a aluminum butt on a jigging rod? Do you need the rod to break down for travel?

This would make the rod heavy and not comfortable to fish all day IMO.

Cutting blanks as stated opens up a whole can of worms and will change the action of the blank, usually not for the better. If you already have the blank I could maybe see doing this but if your going to buy a blank then make a rod why not go with a blank that is 5.5' to start with?
Its actually an extra blank that I had origally cut down for a build. Its not going to be used for vertical jigging. Its for live bait bottom fishing so weight isn't a a factor. I wanted to use a uni butt because I was tired of my Eva and hypalon getting chewed up in my flush mount holders. I Bought a bunch of #1 unibutts from a buddy for a good price. So its pretty much an experimetal build from extra rod parts I have. I just really like the action of parabolic rods
Many men fish all their lives without ever realizing that it is not the fish they are after.
Michael Baughman

Jon Vadney

Quote from: Topshot on November 27, 2014, 07:30:30 PM
Quote from: SoCalAngler on November 27, 2014, 05:57:38 PM
I have to ask why do you want a aluminum butt on a jigging rod? Do you need the rod to break down for travel?

This would make the rod heavy and not comfortable to fish all day IMO.

Cutting blanks as stated opens up a whole can of worms and will change the action of the blank, usually not for the better. If you already have the blank I could maybe see doing this but if your going to buy a blank then make a rod why not go with a blank that is 5.5' to start with?
Its actually an extra blank that I had origally cut down for a build. Its not going to be used for vertical jigging. Its for live bait bottom fishing so weight isn't a a factor. I wanted to use a uni butt because I was tired of my Eva and hypalon getting chewed up in my flush mount holders. I Bought a bunch of #1 unibutts from a buddy for a good price. So its pretty much an experimetal build from extra rod parts I have. I just really like the action of parabolic rods

The only thing I would be hesitant about is the fact that you would have to build the blank up quite a bit to get it to fit properly in the unibutt.  I like building up the blanks as little as possible when building rods with aluminum butts.  My best recommendation is to call Rainshadow and ask to speak to Kerry.  He's a helluva nice guy and would be able to advise whether or not that blank will hold up for the application you intend on using.

Batson Enterprises (Rainshadow, Alps, Forecast, etc)
1-877-875-2381

SoCalAngler

#8
Ah Topshot it makes more sense now. I also like and fish parabolic rods for many applications. The bending of a parabolic rod more through out the blank is what gives them that "more comfortable" feeling and adding a uni-butt is going to defeat that feeling IMO.

I see that adding weight is not a issue for you but for me I do most everything I can to go as light in rods, reels and fishing weights to put more enjoyment for me in the fishing I do.

You have all the stuff to do what your looking to do and the advice to call Baston makes good sense.

As far as the hypolon or EVA getting chewed up by the rod holders I fully understand that but have you thought about changing the aft grip to seine cord? Its cheap, takes a beating well, also with a little practice you can make some pretty neat patterns if wanted. Furthermore if or when it gets beat up again it is pretty easily changed out. You will be able to keep the rods parabolic action with a minimal investment in materials used to add the cord or if you ever need to replace it in the furture. Just a thought