Custom insert for the 113H

Started by Alto Mare, January 16, 2015, 09:12:13 PM

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BMITCH

Thanks for the reply Adam. This will make my decisions easier going forward.
Bob
luck is the residue of design.

crackerman

Awesome! I am glad to hear that and hope to get some business done in the next few months.

joel8080

Is there any for the 113H left if not when will the next batch be in I need 1 set.

Joel8080
Oceanside,California

LTM

#78
Quote from: Three se7ens on February 28, 2015, 04:31:45 PM
Ill be testing the daiwa 600h kit as soon as I get my reel back together, and Im working on an insert for the big senators.
Adam, are you say you'll BE MAKING INSERTS FOR THE 600H? If so please add me to your list!

Leo

PS All that's needed after the insert is a SS GEAR SLEEVE; maybe with a few extra teeth! What do you think about a gear sleeve Adam?

Shiftee

Strictly hypothetical question here, but what kind of drag do you think could be generated with this insert, a 7+1 stack from bryan, and a gen 2 sleeve from alan? I say hypothetical because I'm not sure how much more drag a senator can take.

Three se7ens

Quote from: Shiftee on March 01, 2015, 02:13:46 AM
Strictly hypothetical question here, but what kind of drag do you think could be generated with this insert, a 7+1 stack from bryan, and a gen 2 sleeve from alan? I say hypothetical because I'm not sure how much more drag a senator can take.

Bryans 7+1 stack is not compatible with my kit.  Both his and mine are different means of accomplishing the same result. 

The gen 2 sleeve isnt going to have much of an effect on the max drag of either kit, its more to address the longevity of the carbon fiber washer under the gear.  Im using delrin here on Sals advice. 

Sal tested my insert kit on page 1 and achieved 37 lbs of drag.  His reel had an aluminum frame, stainless gear sleeve, and gears, and all the other goodies. 

Shiftee

Quote from: Three se7ens on March 01, 2015, 02:55:15 AM
Quote from: Shiftee on March 01, 2015, 02:13:46 AM
Strictly hypothetical question here, but what kind of drag do you think could be generated with this insert, a 7+1 stack from bryan, and a gen 2 sleeve from alan? I say hypothetical because I'm not sure how much more drag a senator can take.

Bryans 7+1 stack is not compatible with my kit.  Both his and mine are different means of accomplishing the same result. 

The gen 2 sleeve isnt going to have much of an effect on the max drag of either kit, its more to address the longevity of the carbon fiber washer under the gear.  Im using delrin here on Sals advice. 

Sal tested my insert kit on page 1 and achieved 37 lbs of drag.  His reel had an aluminum frame, stainless gear sleeve, and gears, and all the other goodies. 

I more or less meant combining the ideas, not necessarily that they were compatible.  But I got ya, makes sense.

Alto Mare

I disagree on the washer for under the gear as being for longevity, even though true, this is not why I recommend it.
An Acetal washer when used under the gear will make that reel much smoother. It's easier increasing drag numbers on a reel that functions very smooth up to its max.
I do agree with Adam's numbers, the 113H when used with the insert and the Acetal washer for under the gear and preferably one on top of the stack, could safely be fished at 30 lbs.
As Adam stated, an aluminum frame, custom ss gear sleeve and ss gears will help get you there.

The custom insert from Adam is one of the best upgrade to date and the upcoming gears from Alan C. will be even better, but both have their places...both are valuable to us.
Here are some specs weather on the inserts or upcoming gears from Alan C . The good thing about either one is that you could control  drag numbers by positioning the washers as shown on figure 1- 2 or 3.
I can assure you, my reels will be set as shown on figure 3

And here are some numbers, level 3 really gets up there

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

alantani

Quote from: Shiftee on March 01, 2015, 02:13:46 AM
Strictly hypothetical question here, but what kind of drag do you think could be generated with this insert, a 7+1 stack from bryan, and a gen 2 sleeve from alan? I say hypothetical because I'm not sure how much more drag a senator can take.

more than the non-stainless steel gears can handle, for sure.  and certainly more then i would want to use on a single speed reel. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Shark Hunter

Come on Boss. ;D
Get on the Train! ;)
These upgrades of recent are the best thing that has ever happened to us Senator Folks! ;D
Life is Good!

Three se7ens

Sal, my point about longevity wasn't referring to the delrin, it was referring to the gen 2 gear sleeves that use a metal washer with the under gear washer, to keep the teeth and dogs from wearing the carbon fiber washer. That will help the life of a carbon fiber washer, but I don't see that metal washer being necessary with delrin under the gear.




Alto Mare

My misunderstanding Adam, I thought you meant the Delrin/ Acetal washer.
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

fIsHsTiiCkS

Quote from: alantani on March 01, 2015, 06:11:36 AM
Quote from: Shiftee on March 01, 2015, 02:13:46 AM
Strictly hypothetical question here, but what kind of drag do you think could be generated with this insert, a 7+1 stack from bryan, and a gen 2 sleeve from alan? I say hypothetical because I'm not sure how much more drag a senator can take.

more than the non-stainless steel gears can handle, for sure.  and certainly more then i would want to use on a single speed reel. 

I have been fishing 2speed vs 1 speed on a few applications. I would have to agree with this statement a little. Also, it comes to preference and style of fishing. I really only will be using these inserts/versa style gears in one reel. The things you guys are doing here is insane though!!!

Keta

Quote from: Three se7ens on March 01, 2015, 05:34:16 PM
That will help the life of a carbon fiber washer, but I don't see that metal washer being necessary with delrin under the gear.

The metal under washer will spread the load on both Delrin and CF washers and should help.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Alto Mare

Adam sent me a couple of extra washers for the 113H kit, since I didn't like that last washer being so close to the insert, I decided to open the reel up again and add two more washers

Here is what i got


45Lbs, just as I thought, the Top-Hat was bottoming out on the insert

The reel felt  smooth almost all the way, again this test was done by pulling the line out while holding the reel in my hands.
Numbers should be close to having it on the rod, I've compared these earlier and they were exactly the same.

The reel increased slowly up to 25Lbs, from that point it would increse 5Lbs at a time, just by turning the star about 1/8", still able to do it by using one hand on the star.

I tried different tension springs, the stock, one from McMastersCarr in stainless steel and the thick one from the 114H, just to see if it would change. The reel felt the same with all.


I have an idea to help it a little, but will need to experiment first.
Acetal washer was used on top and bottom, as mentioned above, the reel felt smooth all the way, but very smooth up to 25-30Lbs.

Adam, your set  includes (5)mm carbon fiber washers and (6) keyed washers. On the reel with easy access drag system, I'm going to recommend that you change it to (5) carbon fiber washers, (5) keyed washers and (1) keyed washer of 0.95" in thickness for the top.

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.