REPLACE BRAID ON REEL?

[LTM]

Folks,

Im thinking about replacing the braid on a couple of reels. I was thinking of doing this BEFORE I spool up my other reels (most of them) with braid. The reason Im thinking of doing this is because: 1. Its the green solid Power Pro which I hear is not good braid and will break well below its rated test. 2. The braid is in very good condition, however when originally spooled I didnt spool correctly for my applications (ie too much/too little top shot) and I didnt prep the spools (wax, dacron backing). 3. Ive upgraded the reels and some of them can now be used with much higher drag settings, therefore I plan on using heavier line on some of the reels.

So, I have a variety of concerns regarding replacing the braid on these reels. Other than the above concerns, prioritizing which reels to add braid to is my main concern considering most of my reels dont have braid and I cant afford to do them all at one time. Your insights and comments will be a big help.

Thanx,

Leo

[Jeri]

Hi Leo,

Before you go diving in and strip your reels, perhaps have a good read of what Paul Van Gaal has to say about various braids, strengths and knots. www.paulusjustfishing.com A very informative site, possibly on a par with this site, but focussing on braid issues.

It might cause you some head scratching, as you will have a greater understanding and perspective of the various braids.

The site caused me a few headaches, and changed a lot of my thinking on braid and surf casting, knots especially, and all to the better in final fishing performance.

Unless your braid is looking like 'hairy string', it probably is still in good shape, so changes, other than re-spooling might not be necessary.

The one serious thing that we have found with the braid and our usage is the huge benefit from using Silicone Carbide insert rings, as they just promote longevity, being so smooth, they cause so little surface damage. Have one reel that has been used for over 2 years now, and still on the same braid – on a rod with SiC rings. An equivalent rod with Alconites is showing some wear on the braid (same make and strength) after just 1 year of use. This point about the rings has changed a lot of our attitude to how we are building surf rods for use with braid – Sic rings or nothing!!
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Hope that helps.

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

[Keta]

Thanks for the link Jeri.

Leo,
Go slow on your transition, the initial cost is large and you will have to change some of your knots.

I have never had or seen problems with Power Pro (I really like the Ace Hollow) and feel it's a good choice for solid Spectra.  BTW, I sell Jerry Brown and consider Jerry to be a friend so I could use this to sell line.  The "breaking" is usually cutting by damaged eyes on a rod.

Don't go by strength when choosing your braid, go by diameter.  I rarely use braid less than 60#, a little 40# and my steelhead/kokanee reels have 30#.  I fish inshore rockfish (usually blacks, blues and lingcod) with 60# spectra and 10'-20' 25#-40# mono topshots.  My YT rigs are the same but bumped up to 25#-40# topshots.  


Before you spend your money let me PM you my prices so you can use them to find the best deal.

[LTM]

Jeri, I believe you suggested this site to me awhile ago and it did leave me "dazed and confused". I really appreciate the knowledge and research you bring to this forum. In regards to SIC guides; I had read in several places on the web that there was a transition back to stainless guides for braided line, any truth/comments to that? I also thank you for sharing your experience with Alconite guides vs SIC (silicon carbide). Evidently there is a MAJOR difference in the hardness of the two material despite the advertising/marketing thats going on.

Lee, I must go slow as you have said due to the price of braided line. If you say Power Pro brand is good then I trust your experience and will continue to use what I have until necessary to change so thank you for the validation.  In regards to your statement about "dont go by strength, go by diameter" I find this concept confusing/unclear. The diameter is a function of strength for fishing line (braid or mono) and the stronger the line the larger the diameter. Also, the primary benefit of braid I thought was more line on reel due to smaller diameter line with superior strength. So when you say choose by diameter; what is your thought process in selecting the correct diameter of braid for a reel. For example, let use my Saltiga 30T which I have 50# Power Pro solid spooled on. I chose 50# for more line capacity on reel (braid being approx one-third the diameter of mono is approx the size of 17# mono in this example). I also took into consideration the loss of strength due to  the connection would leave me a comfortable margin for the 25# test mono that I use on the reel. So Lee, please help me understand your method of using diameter of the braid for the example I have given with my Saltiga example.

Thank you gentlemen for your thoughts and help in this matter which I find myself so confused over.

Im all ears on your comments,

Leo

PS I purchased the book "Geoff Wilsons Guide to rigging braid, dacon and gelspun lines". I didnt find it that helpful, rather vague to me. Maybe its for those with more experience with braid than me. I would like more understanding and how/when  to apply the knots/connections mentioned. But its better than nothing (by no means saying the Paulus web site is nothing). The book leaves me scratching my head like the web site.

[Capt Ahab]

I fish braid on everything  - I suggest you do not replace the braid but exchange it to another reel - reversing the braided so that the unworn bottom is now the top.

Jeri is dead on about the guides - higher quality guides work mush better with braid.  I started using some titanium low riders which are for long casting with the silicone inserts and WOW do they work well.

The new k guides cut down on wind knots  - the downside of braid.

I fish over 200 days a year and really need ti change our braided line - only if I have a mishap or a bad guide


Do not know what test PP you are using and for what application - but any braided line is very very difficult to break off - usually the leader knot will fail before the main line


REVERSE the braid and fish on!

[nelz]

Can somebody explain this "waxing" of the spool? What's it for and what wax to use?

[LTM]

Ahab, thanx for the advise. I will be exchanging the PP onto other reels, now that you guys give it your blessings. On the topic of quality guides and using SIC guides. I really like SIC guides on my rods and I have a few in my quiver of rods. SIC guides REALLY drive up the cost of my custom rods into the $300 range fast and Im on the complete opposite of the "rich scale". This leads me to wonder just how "COST EFFECTIVE" is braid when one needs SIC guides for the longevity of the "expensive" braid and replacing the guides on my rods with the stainless steel Perfection guides with SIC guides. The costs just keep adding up vs simple mono which I can use on all rods/reels without any modifications to existing gear. Yes I wont have the extra line capacity (really has anyone you know landed a fish that took 300+ yards of line from you on anything other than a big game reel with heavy line. I THINK NOT). I admit to the increased sensitivity of braid due to the lack of stretch.

Still on the fence,

Leo

[LTM]

Can somebody explain this "waxing" of the spool? What's it for and what wax to use?

Bryan Young on this site introduced me to the concept of applying a good wax (Carnuba) on your spools to protect them from corrosion and then add your backing/whatever. The wax is a barrier against corrosion on the spool.

Leo

[FatTuna]

What are you fishing for? Powerpro isn't the best braid in my opinion but it should get the job done. I had some issues with it but I've seen much worse. I think the biggest issue is keeping it away from anything that will abrade the line.

If you want to adjust your backing/repack the spool, pull the braid off and store it on an old mono spool. I use a drill and put the spool though a bolt.

I always cut some off and test it if I think that it is questionable. I just do it with a hand scale. It's not perfect but it will give you a good idea if your 40lb braid is really breaking at 10lbs.

Capt Ahab had a good point about reversing it. I do that after a couple of seasons.

These days braid doesn't really cost much if you know where to buy it online. The only time I've been buying expensive braid is for big game fishing, I use JB hollowcore. Cheap braids are junk but you don't need to spend $30 a reel in braid. If you want to get some heavier stuff, I say go for it.

[Jeri]

Hi Leo,

SiC guides versus others is a short debate, even with some of the plasma metal coated rings now being offered by companies other than Fuji. They are trying to get to the point of lighter rings that will not be too harmful to the braid, so that they can hopefully capture some of the spinning market.

With all braid applications, it is down to the microscopic smoothness of the insert in the guide, and to date, apart from the recent introduction of Torzite from Fuji, SiC has reigned supreme, nothing comes close to that for smoothness – end of story. Probably why Fuji haven't brought out their own plasma coated rings – as it would certainly be a cheaper option than SiC or Torzite.

Balancing the cost of SiC rings on a rod is a fairly simple equation, how many spools of braid do you want to buy to replace line damaged due to inferior guides??

Reversing you current braid, and using the underlying layers as your working line is a great option, if you are using brtaid as the main top line.

Paul Van Gaal's site offers a number of pages, including tests on various options of joining braid to mono, and getting a reliable percentage of the weaker material as your final joint strength. It also suggests that diameter is not a reliable indicator of strength. However, what it does offer on a very long list, is the strengths attained with reliable testing of a huge number of braids on the market. PowerPro 50 can be seen to break at 60lbs or above depending on which 'model'.

If you are trolling with your tackle, then an option might be how we originally used braid, as a primary backing material – say 300 metres, then top load the balance of the reel with nylon, which would give you all the reliability of nylon, and as a cheap replacement material, maintaining a mental security, that the capacity of the reel was enhanced with the braid backing. This would then save you the expense of SiC rings unless you continually get down to the braid on the fish you are catching. This approach is what we do with our surf casting, bottom load a reel with 300m of braid, then top shot with over 200 metres of working length of nylon. This allows for cheap replacement of the mono, which gets all sorts of damage when casting in the surf, as well as a cheap loss, when we 'hook Africa'.

A point about the various options on the new 'K' series rings, they are great for short rod casting with braid, but that is about the only real application, on long rods we have pretty much proved that Low Riders perform better. In a boat rod situation, then normal rings with SiC inserts will mostly suffice.
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Hope that helps.

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

[Keta]

In regards to your statement about "dont go by strength, go by diameter" I find this concept confusing/unclear.

Use Spectra that is stronger than the mono you plan on fishing, this till ends up being considerably thinner than the mono.  Spectra under 40#-60# can cut you bad (to the bone, I know from experience) and digs into the line on the spool bad.  

50# is a good choice for the Saltiga.

I've been spooled two times, once by a steelhead that looked well over 30# and the other by a wahoo.  BTW, I laid my hands on the IGFA record steelhead 5 hours after it was caught.

Jeri is right about trolling, use a topshot long enough that you still have mono on the spool. I make mine 100'.

[nelz]

Can somebody explain this "waxing" of the spool? What's it for and what wax to use?

Bryan Young on this site introduced me to the concept of applying a good was (Carnuba) on your spools to protect them from corrosion and then add your backing/whatever. The wax is a barrier against corrosion on the spool.

Leo

Thanks Leo. I see there several kinds of carnuba. For spools, should I get the stick, paste, liquid?

[LTM]

I use the paste in the can. Im using Bryans recommendation, which is "Mothers" paste in the can.

Leo