alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Under star washers
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: Under star washers  (Read 4360 times)
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cubanaso
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« on: April 24, 2015, 01:17:45 PM »

I'm having issue with some of my reels and I believe it's due to a lack of washers under the star.  When I button down the drag I'm losing smoothness and ease of turning the handle.  I checked the reel and realized there are no washers under the star.

I checked my other reels and noticed that the reel which had ONE under the star felt way smoother.  A photo of the washer in question is attached.

My question is where can I get more these valuable little washers?  Also, is one enough or should I use two?

I'm assuming this is the root of the issue.  If it could be something else I would love to hear some ideas.

Thanks

Andrew

PS - all the information I've gotten on getting these reels back up to speed has been invaluable!


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Newell Nut
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2015, 03:06:17 PM »

The number of the washer is 3-18 on the schematic. You can buy them at uluajunkies.com and they call it a lock washer but it is not a lock washer. Scroll down the page on the link. Four of them are 5.75.

You should go ahead and install a new set of CF drag washers. If you don't know how them send your reels to me and I will install all the parts for you cheaper than buying them and the reels will be right and extremely smooth. Just cost you postage and parts.
http://uluajunkies.com/shopnewell.html
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Bryan Young
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 03:06:24 PM »

Hi Andrew,

When cranking down on the star, is the star hitting the sideplate?  If so, you will need more of those washers.  Those act like spacers due to height variations in the drag stack.


The only place that I know have those washers is UluaJunkies.com.  I'm not sure of the spelling...sorry.
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Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
Keta
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2015, 04:27:36 PM »

I have them too.
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Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
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cubanaso
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2015, 05:12:48 PM »

Newell Nut, thanks for the link and the insight.  I'm almost there and have a trip next weekend to test my attempts at bringing these terms back to life.  I may have to send them your way after this trip depending on how it goes. 

Bryan, I think it is an issue of hitting the side plate.  Do you usually use one washer only?

Thanks
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Newell Nut
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2015, 05:16:46 PM »

Once the drag washers wear down the star hits the reel and not much can be done at that point but install another 3-18 for an emergency and than install new drags and delrin and I have the 3-18s that Keta made in different thicknesses as well as some nice wavy washers from McMaster to create the ideal spacing and ramp up on the drag pressure.
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SoCalAngler
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2015, 05:34:03 PM »

When you say "buttoned down" what drag pressure are you getting? I don't own many Newells but even with carbon fiber drags many reels, even Newells will start to get what I call jerky (not so smooth) if your pushing the reel past the design limit. Some star drag reels will handle more drag before getting jerky but most if not all will reach the point when buttoned down really tight, if the star does not bottom out first.

Carbon fiber drags smooth out the drag pressure for sure but will also get jerky when over tightened. Thats why mods like Bryans thinner metal and carbon fiber washers making more fit inside the stack and more drag pressure (drag surface area) before getting jerky.

Adding the washer your looking to put in place may smooth things out but then again may not. At that price it can't hurt.
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Tunacious
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2015, 08:16:58 PM »

All good info here. Get some 3-18's if you can as well as some wavy washers. Usually, I can get away with one 3-18 and 2 wavy washers on top of the drag spacer (below the star)...this is for the original P's. The drag spacer on the original P's are a bit taller ( I call them top hats Grin) than later series. The alum stars are also much thinner than the graphite models. This may change how many washers you stack on top of the drag spacer. On a couple NL reels I use another washer similar to a 3-18 but thicker...1 of these work just like one 3-18 and 2 wavy's. You'll have to experiment with how many of each you need... Smiley    Don't forget that you still have to allow yourself enough space to be able to back off the star completely.

Using Bryan's 5+1 (or 7+1) carbontex drag system along with a properly stacked drag spacer will ensure much more drag with much less stress on the reel. You'll never have to button down the star and max out the drag; you'll also have much smoother drag.

Good luck!
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funhog
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2015, 08:44:59 PM »

I had a similar problem about a year ago and started a thread titled " how smooth is reel smooth " . All my PF Series Newell reels were somewhat perfect  untill you loaded up the drag . I got great adice in this thread and all of it improved the smoothness on all but one reel. THE 338. And then I re- read the advice from Alan in the second post: I put the real on a rod and stuck it in a rod holder and sent my brother on a fast walk with the line attached to a scale and slowly tightened the drag. Smooth as can be until it hit 10 pounds and then it got jerky  like disk brakes that need the rotors turned . saw Alan's comment on the frame getting tweaked ...and it was, at 10 pounds. Marked it where  the spool was rubbing the inside S.S.frame ring ( just a little. Took the frame apart and found out my grief was all becaus the little pressed-in  guide nuts for the top screw had developed a little play in its seat . under 10 or more pounds of drag it would get racked out of alignment and drive me nuts !!! I fixed it and my romance continues with my Newells and with a sweet 16 pounds of smooth  drag.
Alans comment is copied and pasted below :
" first guess, the frames are torquing or the spool shaft is flexing a little, allowing the spool to rub against the frame.   when you said "like a wheel out of round," that tipped me off.  a sticky drag will be sticky at low drag and high.  a spool rubbing against the frame will be worse at high drag settings and disappears completely at low settings".

in terms of a fix (if this is the cause), then finding the "high" spot and then knocking off a little material on the frame with a dremel and a sanding wheel will fix it quick.  usually it is between 1:00 o'clock and 5:00 o'clock as you look at the frame from the right hand side.  caution when doing this, though.  by grinding away at the frame, you are increasing the gap between the frame and spool.  that might allow spectra to get caught inbetween during a backlash.  these can really be a mess. 

just a guess......  Undecided:
....first guess, the frames are torquing or the spool shaft is flexing a little, allowing the spool to rub against the frame.   when you said "like a wheel out of round," that tipped me off.  a sticky drag will be sticky at low drag and high.  a spool rubbing against the frame will be worse at high drag settings and disappears completely at low settings.  I

"in terms of a fix (if this is the cause), then finding the "high" spot and then knocking off a little material on the frame with a dremel and a sanding wheel will fix it quick.  usually it is between 1:00 o'clock and 5:00 o'clock as you look at the frame from the right hand side.  caution when doing this, though.  by grinding away at the frame, you are increasing the gap between the frame and spool.  that might allow spectra to get caught inbetween during a backlash.  these can really be a mess."  

I decided to fix the issue rather than adjust by grinding the frame. maybe this will help you too
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2015, 09:29:01 PM »


Using Bryan's 5+1 (or 7+1) carbontex drag system along with a properly stacked drag spacer will ensure much more drag with much less stress on the reel. You'll never have to button down the star and max out the drag; you'll also have much smoother drag.

Good luck!
Well said Tunacious. I'm a strong believer that increasing drag numbers in most cases is a good thing.

Sal
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cubanaso
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2015, 10:03:15 PM »

Awesome info, thank you for all the input.  The reels I'm having issues with are a p322f, g338f and a 338-5.  I have put Bryan's 5+1 stack in all of them and replaced some of the bearings.  I'm gonna and get some washers and some wavy washers to find a fit.

I haven't actually checked drag pressure in pounds, haven't had time to bust out the spring scale yet.

I will have a look at frame rubbing issue mentioned, taking a Dremel to the reel is a bit out of my novice reel servicing scope still.

Thanks again for all the help, some very knowledgable folks on this board.
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Bryan Young
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2015, 02:03:05 AM »

You may want to try replacing the last metal washer with a stock metal washer first.  Im not talking about the spring washer by the way.  This may fix your problem.
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Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
Newell Nut
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2015, 05:08:19 AM »

X2
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2015, 05:56:32 AM »

I just installed Adam's custom stainless steel star on my Newell and noticed that it would hit the plate with very little drag.

The stock Newell star has a washer built into it as one unit, the custom stainless star doesn't, that pretty much explains it.

I happen to have some Delrin of 1.65mm in thickness... just what I needed, so I made me a washer


all is good now, actually even a little smoother

lots of clearance to spare.


Sal
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bluefish69
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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2015, 07:51:00 AM »

Sal

Thanks for this info. I haven't tried the Stars yet I will have the same problem. I have a choice of ordering the Delrin or using my washers.

Mike
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