113 hn baja special

Started by alantani, December 07, 2008, 04:29:19 PM

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jurelometer

Quote from: SoCalAngler on July 27, 2015, 04:21:19 AM


Not sure if the bold part is from you or if you quoted someone else but the frames of the 113HN's are machined and not cast.


That was me.

Cast, cold forged, bar stock can all be machined.  It's fairly common.  Used to be  that cast Al parts were not able to be anodized, but that has changed with advanced casting methods.    All I could find on the Penn web site was "machined", no mention of bar stock, or 6061 T6, etc.  The cynic in me went with the lowest cost possibility.

But you are probably right in the point that I think you are making (bar stock, not cast).  Since these are made in the US at relatively low volume, it is unlikely that the frames are cast, esp.  if they are anodized.  That would  put the reel at a  low price point for such a large frame...

I should have skipped the cast comment, as it was a side point to the post.

Thanks for keeping me honest,

-j.

johndtuttle

Quote from: jurelometer on July 27, 2015, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: SoCalAngler on July 27, 2015, 04:21:19 AM


Not sure if the bold part is from you or if you quoted someone else but the frames of the 113HN's are machined and not cast.


That was me.

Cast, cold forged, bar stock can all be machined.  It's fairly common.  Used to be  that cast Al parts were not able to be anodized, but that has changed with advanced casting methods.    All I could find on the Penn web site was "machined", no mention of bar stock, or 6061 T6, etc.  The cynic in me went with the lowest cost possibility.

But you are probably right in the point that I think you are making (bar stock, not cast).  Since these are made in the US at relatively low volume, it is unlikely that the frames are cast, esp.  if they are anodized.  That would  put the reel at a  low price point for such a large frame...

I should have skipped the cast comment, as it was a side point to the post.

Thanks for keeping me honest,

-j.


I can verify that the Baja/US Senator frame is machined from extruded stock, not a cast then machined part.

jonnou

this is why i choose the adhesive coating. it is about 0,2mm thick, the reel i used it on had large areas of stainless touchin anodised aluminium. My thoughts were isolation of dissimilar metals. the anodising will do this but only for a short time.

Dominick

Quote from: johndtuttle on July 27, 2015, 05:59:59 PM
I can verify that the Baja/US Senator frame is machined from extruded stock, not a cast then machined part.
John this question is not meant to be argumentative but I am curious how you are able to verify this.  Dominick
Leave the gun.  Take the cannolis.

There are two things I don't like about fishing.  Getting up early in the morning and boats.  The rest of it is fun.

johndtuttle

#199
Quote from: Dominick on July 28, 2015, 05:46:40 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 27, 2015, 05:59:59 PM
I can verify that the Baja/US Senator frame is machined from extruded stock, not a cast then machined part.
John this question is not meant to be argumentative but I am curious how you are able to verify this.  Dominick

A very educated guess from holding it in my hands  ;D. You can tell it is an extruded piece of (probably) hollow stock that is then machined by the cuts in the frame. Lee has my reel atm, otherwise I would share some images that make should make that clear, I think :). And the frame and spool material appears to be the identical alloy.

I don't think anyone would have the capability to mold something like this in the extremely small numbers that this reel is produced (it is not a 704Z like million seller back in the day, this reel only sells in the few hundreds :( ). Every Baja ever sold would not cover the cost of molds for the frames in the two additional sizes.

Just like the Torque reels they do have advanced CNC machining capability in Philly to do this sort of work. What I believe Penn did was realize that they had the molds for the side plates etc and a lot of parts already from the discontinued Baja. CNC cutting some wider frames and spools is child play to make the US Senator line and use up all of the older parts, produce more if needed, and have relatively zero design costs.

This however, is why the Baby Baja will probably never get off the ground. Producing molds for the new side plates and re-sizing all of the parts probably cannot be shown to be worth it given the poor sales of the original.

Of course, we can simply ask Penn and they will tell us if any question remains. :)

Just go to: http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/forum/72-penn-fishing/

And post the question. Easy Peasy.

Bryan Young

I'm not sure of the machining.

Penn's Baja was a poor seller considering the awesomeness of the reel.  It was the name that set it's doom from the beginning.

Many buyers though I don't fish in Baja, why would I want this reel.

So they relabeled it, changed the frame color then added a Wide version for Hawaiian Shorecasters and others that like the previous 113HLWs.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

steelfish

I don't fish in US..
Why would I want a US Senator reel?
J/k



The Baja Guy

jurelometer

#202
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 28, 2015, 06:08:03 PM
Quote from: Dominick on July 28, 2015, 05:46:40 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 27, 2015, 05:59:59 PM
I can verify that the Baja/US Senator frame is machined from extruded stock, not a cast then machined part.
John this question is not meant to be argumentative but I am curious how you are able to verify this.  Dominick

A very educated guess from holding it in my hands  ;D. You can tell it is an extruded piece of (probably) hollow stock that is then machined by the cuts in the frame. Lee has my reel atm, otherwise I would share some images that make should make that clear, I think :). And the frame and spool material appears to be the identical alloy.

I don't think anyone would have the capability to mold something like this in the extremely small numbers that this reel is produced (it is not a 704Z like million seller back in the day, this reel only sells in the few hundreds :( ). Every Baja ever sold would not cover the cost of molds for the frames in the two additional sizes.

Just like the Torque reels they do have advanced CNC machining capability in Philly to do this sort of work. What I believe Penn did was realize that they had the molds for the side plates etc and a lot of parts already from the discontinued Baja. CNC cutting some wider frames and spools is child play to make the US Senator line and use up all of the older parts, produce more if needed, and have relatively zero design costs.

This however, is why the Baby Baja will probably never get off the ground. Producing molds for the new side plates and re-sizing all of the parts probably cannot be shown to be worth it given the poor sales of the original.

Of course, we can simply ask Penn and they will tell us if any question remains. :)

Just go to: http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/forum/72-penn-fishing/

And post the question. Easy Peasy.

Looking at the shape of the frame, it must be from tube stock. Very inexpensive and quick to machine.

The spool is machined from forged Al, which I have read can be stronger than cut from solid stock if done correctly.  The direction of the grain in the metal can follow the shape of the part.  An example of what the forging process looks like for making bicycle hubs - which have a kind of similar shape:



I would be very surprised if they used anything other than 6061 Al.

John:  Am curious how you can match alloys visually.  Scrap Al stock of unspecified alloy is quite inexpensive, but I have not heard of  a way to tell one from the other just by looking at them.  Right now I just use scrap stock for fixtures and such.

-J

johndtuttle

#203
Oh I'm sorry! Of course I have limited metallurgy training  :D.

The finish on the frame and spool is identical and I believe they are polished, not anodized so maybe it was a wild guess based on their surface.  :P

Penn uses 6061 rather a lot of course and given their CNC abilities I assumed it was machined not cold forged and they would use the same alloy (6061 T6 is noted for it's strength and corrosion resistance). If I recall (like with the frame) it has some cuts on it that show the machining done to it, but this may be finish work after forging. This led me to believe they were the same alloy made with the same process. I'll ask PENN.


johndtuttle

From Tony at PENN:

"John,

Question is a little out of my league :), I forwarded it to Peter who runs the Eng. Dept. at the plant. His response :

Spool is hot forged and then machined. Frame is extruded and all made from 6061T6 aluminum.

Tony"


So the same alloys, Frame totally machined from extruded stock, spool forged then machined. :)

steelfish

Quote from: johndtuttle on July 30, 2015, 03:49:37 PM
From Tony at PENN:

"John,

Question is a little out of my league :), I forwarded it to Peter who runs the Eng. Dept. at the plant. His response :

Spool is hot forged and then machined. Frame is extruded and all made from 6061T6 aluminum.

Tony"


So the same alloys, Frame totally machined from extruded stock, spool forged then machined. :)

thanks a lot John for taking the time
this makes me feel 3x better on having this my reel now, I wasnt even interested on the kind of alloy used cuz I really liked the reel when I saw it and I want it.. but now with your info it appears that not only looks good and performs good but it also made from high quality materials.

The Baja Guy

Dominick

Leave the gun.  Take the cannolis.

There are two things I don't like about fishing.  Getting up early in the morning and boats.  The rest of it is fun.

SeaDawg

Wow, this thread motivated me to "SERVICE" my Baja 113hn. I am headed down to San Diego to get in on this El Nino~ tuna bite that's going string..........report to follow :)
God created the fishing pole to keep the truly gifted from ruling the world...........


DISCLAIMER: All information posted by me anywhere on the internet is purely for entertainment purposes. Information in my postings cannot be relied upon as, nor considered, factual. Thank you.

conchydong

Quote from: SeaDawg on August 20, 2015, 09:03:52 PM
Wow, this thread motivated me to "SERVICE" my Baja 113hn. I am headed down to San Diego to get in on this El Nino~ tuna bite that's going string..........report to follow :)


What Happened? Catching Golden Tilefish and Snowy Groupers in Key West wasn't good enough for you? ;)

JoePlo

#209
All I need some assistance. Was using my Baja this past week to catch some monster red snapper when it failed pretty hard. While reeling the reel seems to "skip" if the fish pulls on the line. As if the double dogs are letting go briefly and then catching again. When I got home I pulled the reel apart expecting to find the dogs all out of wack but not the case. What I do see is an issue I found months ago. The dogs are deformed a bit where they hold onto the gear. I will take a few pictures and see if some of the reel wizards in here can identify the problem. All gear teeth are intact and nothing seems damaged. Just a bit disappointing that my tank of a reel failed me. The positive of the situation is that I found I really enjoyed using my Saragossa 8k on Tallas Heavy rod for bottom fishing. Seemed to give me a serious difference in sensitivity when using live baits.