Calcutta 100XT - Brass Shavings

bigmahi12 · July 05, 2015, 06:16:18 PM

Hi guys, long time lurker here and reel fanatic. I recently bought a Calcutta 100XT and promptly upgraded them to carbontex (thanks Dawn who spent 2 days working with me to figure out the sizing!). Everything inside was new/barely used and very clean. Well the other day I was fluking and hooked onto a large bluefish that gave it a good run. I use 10# PP Slick. Afterwards something didn't feel right so I opened up and I found brass shavings everywhere!

I am stumped as to the cause of this. I've googled this far and wide and found little info. 95% of the wear seems to be coming from the pinion teeth. It seems I need to get a new pinion gear too so:
1) what on earth caused this to happen?
2) anyone know if the Calcutta 100B pinion fits the 100XT?
Thanks a ton!

Edit: Thanks for the suggestion Bryan, but both the pinion and main gear are original Shimano bronze.

Bryan Young · July 05, 2015, 09:15:45 PM

The brass dust is probably from your main gear because the pinion is stainless steel and a much harder material.

bigmahi12 · July 05, 2015, 09:18:00 PM

Quote from: Bryan Young on July 05, 2015, 09:15:45 PM
The brass dust is probably from your main gear because the pinion is stainless steel and a much harder material.

Thanks for the response Bryan, but the pinion and gear are both bronze. I've edited my original post to clarify.

alantani · July 05, 2015, 09:24:55 PM

Either a bad bearing that is allowing the spool to shift out of place or a drag washer under the main gear that is too thin and is allowing the main gear to rub against the kick lever. I think. .... $:-\$

Alto Mare · July 06, 2015, 01:35:16 AM

Can't really tell much from the pic, you're not showing a good shot of the gears.
From what I'm able to see, the teeth appear to be in good shape and so are the parts that sit under the gear, no marks anywhere.
The part that I have marked with the arrow does seam to be higher than the ratchet on the sleeve, it might be the angle of the pic, but if that's the case, that would do it.
Check the bottom of the gear for scrapes at that same area.

Sal

Zimbass · July 06, 2015, 05:40:12 AM

It is not easy to see from just one angle of a photo. In addition to the brass shavings, there looks to be white plastic shavings, that might come from the clutch cam or yoke. It may be from the idle gear under the drive shaft.

Have a look to see that the idle gear has been put back the right way under the drive shaft.

Check that the clutch pawl is sitting flush inside the clutch cam as that would cause a misalignment of all parts.

If you do replace the pinion gear, you would need to do that as a set with the main gear.

bigmahi12 · July 07, 2015, 06:10:54 PM

Thanks all for your input.

Alan - The drag washer under the gear is perhaps .001" thinner than the factory washer. Nonetheless, the clutch plate is still level with the anti-reverse ratchet (see image 1). But the drive shaft does wiggle a little bit, so I checked the underside of the gear for scratches and there are no deep grooves or anything like that. Further the main gear doesn't seem to suffer any wear at all! (see last 2 images).

The vast majority of the wear seems to come from the pinion alone (see 2nd image). The area circled in red is visibly worn down compared to the rest of the teeth.

Alto - I've attached another pic of the pinion teeth. The pinion overlaps a bit and that's what you see in the first pic. Otherwise where the teeth mesh, its like a pieces of tin foil (red circle image 2).

Its been suggested to me on another forum that with these brass gears, you can't reel against the drag. I thought that only applied to spinners, so with my conventionals/baitcasters I crank like mad until the fish is boatside. This is my first brass gear reel, all my others are Penn/Newells w/ SS gears. If so, I think lesson learned.

Crossing fingers that the the Calcutta 100B pinion/gear set fits in the 100XT....

Tightlines667 · July 07, 2015, 08:41:25 PM

Quote from: bigmahi12 on July 07, 2015, 06:10:54 PM
....
Alto - I've attached another pic of the pinion teeth. The pinion overlaps a bit and that's what you see in the first pic. Otherwise where the teeth mesh, its like a pieces of tin foil (red circle image 2).

Its been suggested to me on another forum that with these brass gears, you can't reel against the drag. I thought that only applied to spinners, so with my conventionals/baitcasters I crank like mad until the fish is boatside. This is my first brass gear reel, all my others are Penn/Newells w/ SS gears. If so, I think lesson learned.
...

Best practice with all conventional reels (both star and lever drag) is to avoid cranking when the fish is pulling line under pressure. This is why I favor the lift and pump technique for retrieving line. Much of the damage I encounter on the reels I service can be partially or directly attributable to cranking while line is being paid out under pressure, fishing the reel beyond rated max effective drag, or dropping a lever drag reel on its side when under heavy load. Improper lube or fishing with worn parts would be the other thing that causes failures. Brass, bronze, or aluminum gears can not take the same loads as SS either.

MarkT · July 07, 2015, 09:59:36 PM

The pinion gear spins 5 times more than the main (with 5:1 gears) so it takes more of a beating. As a result they usually use a stainless pinion with a brass main. I know sometimes the hardening process for the SS makes it look like brass.

Tightlines667 · July 07, 2015, 10:19:19 PM

Quote from: MarkT on July 07, 2015, 09:59:36 PM
The pinion gear spins 5 times more than the main (with 5:1 gears) so it takes more of a beating. As a result they usually use a stainless pinion with a brass main. I know sometimes the hardening process for the SS makes it look like brass.

Its true the pinion has less teeth, and each tooth sees more contact then the main, but bear in mind the pinion also has a much smaller diameter so the force applied to each tooth is smaller (I think?), and the teeth are beefier. Not sure if my reasoning is right here? But Ibtypically see failure and wear on the largest gear (i.e. high speed main) first, when the same materials are used in all gears. Lower gear ratios mean larger/beefier teeth and gears. 9Xs out of 10 when gears are noticably rough, its the main that is worn. I know its recommended to replace gears as complete sets, but this can be cost prohibitive when one is looking at a several hundred verses a sub $50 bill on hear sets.

foakes · July 07, 2015, 10:19:40 PM

John is right --

Lift up and crank down is a good habit to get into anyway -- letting the rod be your resistance -- not the gears.

Another thing is, and I am not saying this was done -- is putting the reel in gear when there is strong outward pressure and RPMs going on. Sort of like shifting gears in a car without using the clutch -- one can do it successfully about 20% of the time with no damage. The other 80% causes major damage.

And this is a good case for SS also.

Best,

Fred

bigmahi12 · July 08, 2015, 03:38:29 AM

Thank you all for the info/advice/knowledge.

I examined the gear and pinion under a 10x loupe. The pinion looks like it has fangs- the fangs being the unworn portion. The worn portion is noticeably thinned out. The telltale sign to me is the appearance of fresh gold unoxidized brass. The main gear looks as good as new though and hardly any spot of golden brass color.

The pinion also exhibits discoloration, like a purple-ish hue as if it was subject to beat treatment. It looked like brass that was annealed (if you reload ammo u know what I'm talking about). I think posters saying that the pinion has (e.g.) 5x more contact is onto something- the main gear teeth has more time to cool down while the pinion can quickly heat up. Brass doesn't harden via heat treat, only by working it. Heating it up actually softens brass (annealing). Since the pinion teeth will heat up more, ergo it becomes softer relative to the main gear teeth over time, ergo the pinion wears out faster (assuming the pinion and gear are made of equal material to begin with).

Funny last fall I sprung $50 for a Penn SS gear set for my TRQ and thought it was a ripoff... until it cost me $30 just to replace this brass set. Hopefully lesson learned but I'll open it up after a few uses to make sure nothing else is abrading the gear (too thin drag washers, bearing issue, etc).

MarkT · July 08, 2015, 04:16:18 AM

Think about it. With 5:1 gears, one rotation of the handle will turn the main gear once. Each tooth on that main will come in contact with the pinion once. However, the pinion will turn 5 times will all the teeth coming into contact with the main 5 times. This is the reason most pinions are stainless even if the main is brass... it takes a lot more pounding. With a brass pinion and constantly cranking the handle, well I guess this is what you should expect! I only keep turning the handle, even if no line is being retrieved, with a Wahoo on. The deckhands are constantly yelling wind, wind, wind. You have to keep the pressure on those guys or they could spit the hook.

handi2 · July 08, 2015, 03:44:57 PM

Also consider that there are only 2 maybe, but not likely, 3 teeth on the pinion in contact with the main gear. The newer Shimano reels have changed that to have more teeth connecting each other.

Correction.

Your gear set has 1 to 2 teeth on the pinion gear connecting with the main gear. The new "Micro Module" gears have 3 to 4 teeth connecting.