Revo Toro Beast Preview: A Revolution in Large Bait Casting

Started by johndtuttle, August 11, 2015, 06:08:56 PM

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johndtuttle

Heya Guys,


The large bait casting reels have captured my imagination for saltwater recently as this category of reels has made casting straight braid with conventional reels easier than ever before. They are ideal for their light weight and line management ability in conjunction with modern cast control features that make "professional over runs" nearly a thing of the past for even those with modest casting abilities  ;). Braid has allowed us to fish heavy line on very small reels and the manufacturers have followed suit with more and more capable small reels. The latest trend in offshore fishing using large baitcaster reels has been to cast poppers, big swim baits and stick baits as well as traditional iron on straight braid to just short "bite leaders". Large baitcasting reels are leading this revolution in conventional casting due to their unique abilities.

This has also paralleled a trend in freshwater fishing towards larger and larger baits for trophy Bass, Muskie, Trout and inland Stripers etc. It turns out big fish like big baits! So reels capable of throwing 8 or 10 or 12oz or more have been developed having also the capacity to hold enough strong braid for fishing heavy cover or for hard running fish.

Enter the Revo Toro Beast from Abu Garcia:









And shown with a Revo Toro NaCl 60 for size comparison:







Abu has gone to a much more narrow body with an increase in spool height. The capacity of these two is just about the same but the more narrow reel will be a better caster and the angler will fight less "wobble" with a heavy fish on.

So why do I say the Revo Toro Beast is potentially "a revolution in large bait casting"?

Well, fishing braid has let us go smaller and smaller with reels (to save weight and energy over the day) and with that "instant" anti-reverse has become the norm rather than the exception in most modern reels. The low stretch of braid is ideal for hooksets and sensitivity but older reels with handle back play can be unpleasant to fish braid with a harsh "clunk" when the anti-reverse finally sets fishing the erratic retrieves many fish want or during a hookset.

Most of us are now fishing reels with instant anti-reverse that use some kind of One Way Clutch (OWC) to prevent handle back play. These are typically pressed into the right side plate and are out of sight and out of mind to many anglers:





The "needle" rollers inside are engineered to roll freely forward to take in line but "bite" a sleeve that is keyed to the handle shaft to prevent any play in the reverse direction, hence, a "one way clutch". Perfect for an instant hook set and precise feel when fishing.

The sleeve has a dual role as it not only is essential to the anti-reverse it also is used as a spacing washer when you tighten down the star to compress the drag stack. The picture below is the standard way to do it in another maker's reel:



Which at first take seems a remarkable economy of design incorporating 2 functions very nicely in a simple package...

Well, it turns out this works great most of the time but trouble can arise when it is time to loosen the drag with a fish on. What happens is the AR sleeve is tightly gripped by the clutch which restricts it's movement and release of the drag. We all are familiar with having no trouble tightening the drag as the star easily moves the sleeve to compress the drag even with a fish on. But if we need to loosen the drag (ie big girl dives under the boat and we want to avoid rod breakage) the OWC has a death grip on the sleeve and loosening the star has no effect. Once we set or increase drag we have kinda determined our fate in that particular fight with that particular fish until it stops it's run and releases the pressure on the OWC. Only then can the drag loosen. :(

You can easily test this yourself by doing a simple lift with your own rod and reel if it uses a OWC. Once you have enough drag to get a few pounds off the ground loosen the drag and see what happens (nothing!) as the AR Sleeve is gripped by the OWC and will not release the drag to let your weight take line. Until the pressure is off of the Clutch the drag will not loosen.

Sometimes by reeling forward (counter intuitive) the sleeve may move enough, usually not, unless we loosen the star so much we get into over-run territory and potentially lose the fish to a thrown hook or break off :(. And of course, many times to be sure, if we are using modest drag settings and soft hands we will have no trouble with ordinary fish, it is just when that trophy comes to the boat side that we have to be careful or come to grief as our options were previously limited with older designs that don't let us loosen drag when we suddenly need to most...

What Abu Garcia has engineered is the first solution to this problem with their Power Stack with Active Response Drag at the heart of the Toro Beast:





Which starts off with a "keyed" IAR Sleeve to the washers that mates with a bushing to increase overall smooth performance of the drag. This is unique in the sense that rather than the drag washers being keyed to the main shaft they rotate freely around it...they are keyed to the IAR Sleeve instead.

Why would you do this? Why to allow the Main Gear Shaft to float up and down of course!  :o

What Abu has done is anchor the IAR Sleeve axially and instead when you adjust the Star the Gear Shaft and the entire drag stack itself is what moves the small amount to increase or decrease the drag setting. And because the drag stack is what actually is being adjusted up and down there is zero effect of the OWC on drag settings and you can increase or decrease the drag setting regardless of load. ;D

A contact at Abu had this to say:

"The IAR sleeve does not only lock the metal drag washer at the top of the drag stack, it also locks the metal drag washer between the carbon matrix washers. It does that so that no major pressure from the drag is applied to the crank shaft. This allows the crank shaft to slide freely even under extreme drag pressure...this allows you to reduce drag under load (as the Shaft moves freely with adjustments of the Star) and not only when a fish runs and you have to wait for the fish to stop and the pressure on the drag (and OWC) releases the IAR Sleeve so that you can reduce drag."









So, let that sink in a bit and as usual I will be available for questions (that I hope I can answer)... ;D ;D ;D...it has taken more than a few days playing with the reel and asking the engineers at Abu (what are probably) silly questions to wrap my head around the whole concept. It's hard to show exactly how it works even when it is in your hands (let alone photographs) but the basic idea is that the IAR sleeve that we traditionally use to compress the drag stack cannot move in and out in the Beast, only rotate normally, and instead the stack itself moves so it is independent of the OWC binding the Sleeve and allows the drag to be adjusted regardless of load.

This is not your ordinary Bait Casting reel  :D.

Other Features of the Revo Toro Beast: One of the troubles with wider bait casters can be the Thumb Bar that often becomes difficult to depress and return with use as some dirt builds up. The Beast addresses this with a more narrow frame (reduces twist of the Bar) as well as a more positive link with a stainless Clutch Link that more positively connects to the Clutch Plate than previously and a longer "throw" or distance the Thumb Bar travels to increase leverage:







Note the brass Bushing inserted into the frame where the Clutch Spring inserts. A very nice touch to prevent the Spring from abrading the coating on the frame that would lead to corrosion.

One of the other nice things about the more narrow frame of the Beast is that besides feeling more stable fighting a heavy fish it also casts a little farther. This is because the Beast has a disengaging level wind mechanism (the LW is not synced to the spool so that when you depress the Thumb Bar the LW is also out of gear). With wide reels a synced LW is important so that the line coming off of the spool and the line guide are in good orientation to each other to reduce stress. With a more narrow reel this is not necessary as the angle is never that acute and the lack of friction from the LW mechanism cycling back and forth increases casting distance.

The Beast uses a Brass Worm Shaft that is Titanium Nitride coated for increased durability (things like this matter when the LW mechanism is retrieving heavier baits):



A look at the Level Wind Gear assemblies:





The photo does not show it well but Abu has also made a long looked for solution to the Brake Knob on the right side. It now has a tiny lip that makes it much easier to grasp with large fingers or gloved hands:



The Palm Side Plate when removed shows us the cast control features Abu has put into the reel. It features an externally adjustable Magnetic Cast Control for fine tuning your braking needs:





Whereas the spool has Centrifugal brakes that are adjusted by removing the Palm Side Plate and clicked on or off as needed. You will probably leave them all on when using large baits as the reel is a very "fast" caster.




The Beast also comes with 3 handles:



Can't beat a Quarter for getting off the concave slotted caps:



And found that the handle knobs use bushings rather than bearings (I couldn't resist a little grease :) ):





And a size comparison photo with Revo NaCl 60 and Okuma Komodo 364:



That is what I have for now pending requests for clarification :).

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Ok, so to be sure this is a PREVIEW of a pre-production reel intended to give the first guys interested in these reels some information before they buy.

I have taken the reel out several times for casting to see how it feels and all I can say is it's a rocket! And extremely smooth on the retrieve. I haven't taken it offshore yet or hooked anything at all so I cannot say how this new drag system or other features will truly play out on big fish or how it will all hold up over time. That is months down the road like it is with any new reel.

I hope the sneak peek, explanation of technical features and photos of reel porn have provided a worthy read. :)

Clearly, the Revo Toro Beast is a significant evolution of the Revo line directly addressing some of the shortcomings of the Revo NaCl with an improved Thumb Bar and more narrow geometry. The Power Stack Carbon Matrix Drag System has the potential to change the way bait casting reels are built. Time will tell if it holds true to what appears to be a remarkable innovation.

Abu Garcia has put the reel through the testing phase with dozens of guys before finalizing this design and is shipping this revolutionary concept in drag management and big fish baitcasting this fall. Hopefully I and some of you readers will have some early success with the reel and share it with this community.

Let me know what you think!  ;D







Zimbass

Excellent write up John, that is precise and easy to understand. You add captions to photos that are simple to follow.

I am exclusively a LP reel man, or I seldom use my spinners these days, so wondered if it was not time that there was a section on this site, that was dedicated to all matters relevant to bait casters. You would be the ideal candidate to be a moderator.

Just a thought that Alan and company may consider.

Thanks,

Terry.

Never was so much owed by so many to so few.

Rancanfish

Boy howdy!  John is definitely mod material. 

I haven't even gotten my Lexa's wet and he springs this on me though.  I'm gonna pretend I have never heard of this Beast?

I woke today and suddenly nothing happened.

Tightlines667

#3
Nice work as always John.
Looks to me like that rod would fish Redfish snd Snook, maybe small Tarpon.  A lot of features there, and it doesn't look difficult to service.  I have never owned a Diawa, but I know some of the pros fish this reel.  Looks like a good design overall.  I am not sure about the frame, and long term corrosion issues if not properly cared for, but it is a tool, and may be the right on for certain jobs.
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

Ruffy

Excellent write-up John! Any chance you can get your hands on a 6500 beast for a write-up?

Cheers,
Andrew

nelz

Sheesh, I'm totally not getting how this drag issue solution works.  ???  And also, my Daiwa Millionaire 200BB seems to have a similar drag system design, but you're saying this is a new thing?

MarkT

I like narrower but taller!  What is the black tub holding the drag made of?  How does turning the handle turn the spool if the gear shaft doesn't connect to the washers?  I like lots of handles too!
When I was your age Pluto was a planet!


johndtuttle

Quote from: Zimbass on August 12, 2015, 05:36:08 AM
Excellent write up John, that is precise and easy to understand. You add captions to photos that are simple to follow.

I am exclusively a LP reel man, or I seldom use my spinners these days, so wondered if it was not time that there was a section on this site, that was dedicated to all matters relevant to bait casters. You would be the ideal candidate to be a moderator.

Just a thought that Alan and company may consider.

Thanks,

Terry.


Oh no, lol. The real mods are cool-headed types with the Patience of Job.  ;D

TBH I like the idea of all of the Shimano reels with Shimanos, Daiwa with Daiwa...These reels definitely have unique concerns but they are all brothers of the other types. I like the cross-pollination in the general forums. Maybe a baitcaster guy will look at a lever drag tutorial that way and learn something.

johndtuttle

Quote from: Ruffy on August 12, 2015, 08:22:25 AM
Excellent write-up John! Any chance you can get your hands on a 6500 beast for a write-up?

Cheers,
Andrew

That surely is a beautiful reel. Machined one piece aluminum frame and Made in Sweden. It would be nice to take a look.  :)

johndtuttle

Quote from: nelz on August 12, 2015, 02:15:12 PM
Sheesh, I'm totally not getting how this drag issue solution works.  ???  And also, my Daiwa Millionaire 200BB seems to have a similar drag system design, but you're saying this is a new thing?

Yep! Totally new.

At least as far as I know  ;D.

Abu Garcia just recently patented the concept http://www.google.com/patents/US8807471 so not sure just what system your Millionaire may have. The schematics of Millionaire reels I looked at all seemed to be the traditional way of using the sleeve with the same trouble releasing under load.

johndtuttle

Quote from: MarkT on August 12, 2015, 02:20:26 PM
I like narrower but taller!  What is the black tub holding the drag made of?  How does turning the handle turn the spool if the gear shaft doesn't connect to the washers?  I like lots of handles too!

The black tub is the Washer Drum and it is a "hi-tech synthetic polymer" that is very heat resistant. The drum is keyed to the gear by some bumps underneath it (you can see the holes in the Main Gear to accept those bumps in the photos). The Carbon Matrix washers are keyed to the Drum. The Stainless washers turn the Drum due to their friction with the carbon washers (depending on drag setting).

The Stainless washers are keyed to the IAR Sleeve. So when the Sleeve turns the washers must turn. But not being keyed to the shaft they can float up and down on the shaft as it moves up and down with drag adjustment.

Lastly the IAR is keyed to the Main Gear Shaft just like normal. So when you turn the handle you turn the IAR Sleeve which turns the washers that turn the Drum that turns the Gear.

Like many ingenious solutions it seems complicated but is simple in concept (engineering it all and building it is another thing entirely). We are so familiar with the regular way star drags work we understand it well. This is not really more complicated, just unfamiliar to us. :)

steelfish

great preview, it surely got my attention this new reel from Abu, which I have to say Im a fanboy
love my 6500c3, my 7000c and my 5000c

"too bad" the reel market is moving forward faster than my wallet, I havent save enough to get me a tranx or a fathom 2-speed, or a new calcutta 400D, when the new abu 6500 beast comes to play, as well as this revo toro beast.

this is like seeing the new offerings for modern sport cars.
The Baja Guy

Steve-O

Quote from: Rancanfish on August 12, 2015, 06:11:13 AM
Boy howdy!  John is definitely mod material.  

I haven't even gotten my Lexa's wet and he springs this on me though.  I'm gonna pretend I have never heard of this Beast?



Same here...well kinda.. I have a yet to be fished Okuma Komodo 264. I have played with it a bit and will be carrying it to Alaska next month for its workout if I don't get into some big carp this weekend with it.

Maybe a Beast is in my future, maybe not. All my LP reels are either Okuma or Abu's and I came close to tossing a coin on the NaCL vs the Komodo. A little more thinking and the Komodo got the nod without flipping a coin. SS internals, drag power like no LP baitcaster should have and free spool to die for. No mag-cast control either....it's all thumb and one of my first casts took the line down to the last 3 wraps on the arbor.

The extra wide NACL spool was not appealing to me despite the Komodo's  aspect of lack of line capacity.  Over 300 feet of 65# works for my needs.


JDT- thanks for posting this on the Revo Beast. I like the IAR/drag innovation and the choice of handles.

BTW- any dollar figure to stick on the Beast, yet? I haven't looked around, yet, but I'm guessing 3 and half bills if not closer to 4.


EDIT- just found that it is $350 MSRP and line capacity is 100 yards of 65# POWER PRO Slick...about the same capacity in that line weight as the Komodo.

MarkT

That drag drum better be heat resistant because it's acting as an insulator for the washers!  I like the design and I'll look at getting one once they're available.  The NaCl 60 is too wide for me but the Beast looks just right!
When I was your age Pluto was a planet!