Attention!!! Calling on rod builders!!

[Steve-O]

The Rod-Tsunami is coming! As predicted here comes a tidal wave of questions. Aimed at Bryan-san and fishead-san.

Japanese rod questions at that.  Here goes.

I just acquired an old bamboo rod. Logo reads Welcome Rod and Made in Japan.



At I guess, I'm thinking it's post WWII made possibly during the 50's. If you know anything about this rod company, PLEASE, chime in. I struck out researching the web.

It's a two piece with all metal guides and tip top; no guide inserts.  The thread wrap is possibly silk of thin diameter in yellow with red bands. Typical 6 piece hexagonal bamboo build like fly rods. The handle is turned hardwood and may be oak, hickory or Japanese equivalent painted gloss black. The reel seat is chromed brass I think with an aluminum locking ring. The logo decal has the Chrysanthemum crest behind the wording in metallic gold. Ferrules are also chromed brass. 6 foot when assembled. Very stout like a 30-50 pound class rod. All in all very good shape for its age.



I bought it cheap and intend to fish it. After looking it over and giving it a very light cleaning/inspection it appears to be stout enough to fish with. Not dried, cracked, brittle or de-laminating at all. When I tried mounting a Jigmaster on it I noticed the reel seat/reel foot fit was way too sloppy so I tried my old 309. VERY good fit. Then I got a 5 gallon bucket with 15 pounds of stones in it and cranked down on it slowly and gently with increasing load added a little at a time. At what felt like a good load on the rod and the bucket about to lift I see the line touching the blank in several spots. Not good! See Pic.



The line would rub during a big fish load and I know rods and guides should be designed to prevent this.

Now the questions....

How can I determine its weight/line class?
Should I leave it as is and fish it? (halibut/bottom fish in AK)
Should I re-wrap a new slightly taller set of guides adding a couple where needed? (only 3 and the tip)
Should I spiral wrap it to get the line under the blank?
Should I just hang it on the wall?
What would you more experienced rod builders do?
More pics and rod specs provided if needed.

thanks,
Steve-O

[Bryan Young]

Aloha Steve-O,

Score.  Looks like a great collector.   I only have one bamboo rod.  It's a fly rod and I need to refurbish it, but not sure if I will fish with it.  So, it's just sitting.

Fishing with it?  Hmm, if that is the case, considering that you have 15# weight at the end of the rod, it looks like a 30#-50# rod as you had said.  I would probably use 40# max though.  If you decide to use it, I'd re-wrap it because the rod was designed to use cotton line.  Mono may damage the rod, and spectra would definitely damage it.  Re-wrapping it would entail removing all of the guides, respacing, and rewrapping.  If you can get silk thread, it would probably be best because silk streches with the flex in the rod whereas the new threads do not.  Also, don't wrap the guides too tight.  You sould be able to move the guides rather easily before you coat the wrap.

I'd probably use a minimum of 8 guides (including the tip). 

Spiral wrap?  That is a choice.  One good thing is that it's hexagonal shaped.  You already have your angles established, and since the guides will laying flat on the blank due the the shape of the blank, you can twist the guide to get better alignment when spirialing the line around the blank.

Let us know what you decide.

I've got some oak rods as well that were well fished.  Not planning to use them though because of weight and the care needed when fished.



Bryan

[Steve-O]

Bryan,

thanks for the reply. It being only a $30.00 rod and to my knowledge not coming from Zane Grey's closet (it came from SLO, CA not Altadena), I do plan on fishing it. It if breaks on a big fish....well....then I'll hang it on the wall with a 'BIG-FISH-TALE' to tell.  It felt quite sound when reeling down on and lifting the bucket. Trying it against my 50-80 pound rod it felt more like it than a 30-50 pound class however I'll err on the side of caution with it. I put nylon linen line on my 309 and you can see it in the pics. I have 80 yards of it that I may use as the topshot on top of 30-50 pound mono IF I can't locate some decent Ashaway Cuttyhunk or Donegal linen line in an appropriate length and pound test. If I can find 300 yards of 24 -30 pound test that just might do it. And then use a short, heavy, mono leader to the halibut spreader rig. We'll see. It handles well and has good balance. Here're the tip top,  guides and wrap. The one guide has been re-wrapped ...the others appear original. I found some stainless boat rod guides (PacBay brand) over at mudhole and will pick up a set to re-do the rod and place extra guides as needed to get the line off the blank. The most appealing aspect of the rod besides the retro vintage look of bamboo is break down. I can put this into a short rod carrier and take it on the plane for overhead carry on storage. I'll post again when I re-do the guides. When I retire it, I'll put it back to original layout.

Steve-O

[Bryan Young]

If you are going to rewrap the rod, I wouldn't worry about using cotton line.  You should be fine with mono or dacron.  I'm weary on using spectra on stainless steel guides unless you get the carbide ringed guides.

Additionally, if you up the guides, you will be distributing the stress better throughout the blank, and could possibily up the strength of the rod to 65# test if needed as an option.

[codhead]

thanks,
Steve-O

Dunno about rod building, I leave that to the experts.

If I was you I'd feed that steer quickly though, it looks a little emaciated to me

[Fishead]

Sounds like you are going to fish it for sure.If you do choose to rewrap it,you may have a color difference where the current wraps are.That is from the wraps protecting the blank from the sun over the years.That being said.if the color difference does not bother you,rewrap it with at least 5,maybe 6 ceramic guides,not counting the tip.If you want to use the original spacing,fuji & American tackle do have some high frame guides & you might be able to get away with using 3.If you plan to use braided line on it,I would go with the fuji sic guides or the amtac equivalent,Most other guides wont last as long as those will with braid under pressure.As far as underwraps go,look at the blank when you strip off the wraps,if you see no signs of the guide foot digging into the blank,you could go without.I underwrap all my rods out of habit....and it looks a little better.Also,that ferrule placement might give you a challenge on guide placement.Mud Hole would be my choice for rod parts,they have one of the best selections I have seen.Good Luck,Hope this helps.

[Steve-O]

Thanks for the replies and advice!

To address that "emaciated steer" ....since moving out here from the east coast 4 years back, I've shot a couple of buffalo to fill the freezer. That particular skull was a freebie from the butcher/meat processor who had a dumpster full of them. It is a cow, hence the smallish horns and size.

The one in my office is from a 3 year old bull.....a bit emaciated looking, too, now but was 2000 pounds live weight.  A European mount like this is cheap compared to full taxidermy mount. Shot it with a Sharps black powder cartridge rifle. Yum! good eating....we don't hardly buy any beef.



Anyway back to the rod.

I have decided to re-wrap it and have gently removed and saved the original guides to be able to return the rod back to as near original build as possible if I so choose sometime in the future. I think the wrapping thread was size A or the thinnest stuff made. I did go to MudHole to get new guides and am going with some that look period over newer style turbo boat rod guides. These are chromed with ceramic inserts and I'll most likely stick with mono or dacron when I fish it in Alaska in June. My black 501 Penn Jigmaster looks very good on it. I added 4 more guides than the original 3 count. A stripper guide on the butt section and then 6 on the tip section spaced from 4.5 to 8 inches apart. It looks balanced and when I taped them on and ran a line through them to a weight to bend the rod got good results.

So as of last nite, I've wrapped the tip top junction point, the ferrule ends, and the areas just in front of the fore grip in the same color scheme of yellow with red trim bands as originally done. Then I decided to go ahead and under wrap the guides with mostly red and two thin yellow bands in the center divided by a thin red band. Four more under wraps to go and after I color seal them I'll wrap the guides on and epoxy them. Photos to come.

I'll tell you one thing right now.....I about WENT BLIND just doing the wrapping to this point! My kids said my eyes were REEELY RED! One feels permanently crossed today. My hat is off to you rod builders! This is my first rod re-do after having built a fly rod back in the late 90's being my only experience at this. WHEW! Good thing I brought eye drops to work today!

I'll take pics this evening and post an update.

thanks again for the suggestions and ideas.

BTW- when I cut the old guides off there was NO sign of digging in from the original guides..but maybe it was not fighting big fish. The rod handle does have signs of chafing from a boat rod holder so it was probably used for trolling at some point. Still the new under wraps improve the looks a lot


Steve-O

[Fishead]

Just FYI,you can get the NCP thread that needs no color sealing to save a step.Some people do like the untreated thread to allow it to bleed through to give a certain look.Did'nt know if you were aware of that.
P.S. if you do go with NCP thread,do not use it in black,it will turn grey in time.All the other NCP colors hold up well.Yes!!those octagonal blanks are a pain in the butt to wrap.I did a few cape fear blanks years ago & swore never again.Good Luck with your project.

[Tennessee]

Im sure this is a little late but for future references when wrapping hex rods use pieces of fuel line one inch long with a slit. I place the piece of tube over the rod where it rest in my rod wrapper and its the same as rotating a rod blank. when finished just pull them off.