removing levelwind

Started by oc1, November 28, 2015, 10:31:07 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

oc1

Is it OK to remove the levelwind on a 5000C without doing a full CT conversion or adding a dumbbell crossbar where the levelwind once was?  I just removed the worm, worm shield, plastic gears on the left side, etc and put a piece of tape over the holes to keep the gunk out.  I haven't cast it yet because we're still waiting on new spool bearings.  It does not appear that the levelwind mechanism provides any strength to the frame.  The only problem I can imagine is that the line might slap the forward grip because there is no crossbar.  Anyone done this?  Thank you in advance for your insight.


Fish-aholic

The levelwind mechanism does provide strength to the brass cage. During casting the cage will want to flex and distort. This distortion also applies for when retrieving any loads. When the latter occurs, the lip of the cage will eventually bind against the lip of the spool causing binding issues and losing the ability to crank efficiently.

I would recommend not fishing with it until you either replace the worm mechanism or purchase a CT conversion bar.

oc1

Thank you very much Fishaholic.  I did not realize that.  Would it provide enough support if I replace the worm, worm shield and the worm gear clip on the left side of the frame, but leave out the plastic left sideplate gear, levelwind wire and pawl?? 

Fish-aholic

It will be better supported than leaving it all removed. If you want to continue without a levelwind I would definitely look into getting a CT conversion bar. ;)

Ron Jones

I ran a 6400 as you suggest for a couple of years and caught anything up to 4-5 pound bay bass with no issues. I am certain you will be fine with whatever you are fishing for.
Ron
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"

oc1

#5
Putting the plastic gear back on the left side plate and reinstalling the levelwind wire and pawl do not provide any sort of additional support.  So, what is the benefit of a CT conversion?  The worm gear shield works as well as a dumbbell and I can thumb the spool fine without cutting out the top of the frame.  Some Swedish engineer designed the frame to be supported with a top crossbar so it seems that cutting out that top crossbar would make it more  susceptible to being warped or bent.  What am I missing here?  Thank you again for your help.

Fish-aholic

The idea of a CT conversion is to remove the top bar to allow the operator a far greater grip of the spool with your thumb. With this increase in spool grip you can place more power without worrying about spool slip when executing a cast. In turn your reel will add distance to your casts by having the friction points the levelwind assembly creates removed. These are the main traits for a CT conversion.

A designated CT conversion bar is stronger and is actually bolted to the frame giving great support.

There are lots of differing fishing applications for the size of reel you have - this is an international forum - and this is something you haven't addressed. I simply gave you advice on the likely consequences/worst case scenario which is likely to occur if your fishing involves placing a lot of stress on the reel. I would not class reeling in sub 5lb bass as over stressing it, so if that's the kind of light application your reel will experience, carry on as you were.     


Fish-aholic

I should of paid more attention to your opening post because you did state you're not wanting a full CT conversion. I went off on a tangent assuming a full CT conversion and having the top bar removed. My mistake.  :-X

oc1

Thank you very much for your insight Fishaholic.  I really appreciate your time.  This rig will be for casting at bonefish from a canoe with a 3/8 ounce bucktail, 10 lb braid and 11.5 foot medium action ML power rod ... but there are some pretty big bonefish here.  The open top would be nice, but I was already thumbing it with a loose spool and no brakes so it should be OK.  Just need a few extra yards because the fish are skiddish.

Fish-aholic

If casting and retrieving bucktails all day, the removal of the levelwind might be more of a hindrance to your fishing because manual line guiding can need extra concentration to keep the line lay even and from not creating loose loops of line being laid on the spool. The latter can help create birds nests.

There's always means to speed up a reel with a levelwind in place. TSI 321 oil is pretty slick stuff and will immediately increase freespool times compared to standard oils. Then there are ceramic worm pawls and bearing upgrade kits for levelwind assemblies and idler gears; Jerry Foran's upgrades come highly recommended.

http://www.hookless.com/ 

;)

oc1

Thank you yet again Fish Aholic.  There are a couple of things going on.  For one, casting from a sitting position in a canoe I have to be conscious about the length of the rod handle.  Anything over about 17 inches and the butt starts getting in the way.  But, I also need a very long rod to help skip the jib up over the coral heads and the rod tip needs to be able to reach the bow and stern of the 22 ft. canoe from the boat seat in the middle.  It's an outrigger canoe which is lightweight, fast, silent, very long but only about 18 inches wide.  Once you're in the seat there is no moving around.  If the rod tip cannot reach the bow and the stern then it is impossible to land a fish that is circling the boat.  The long rod with a short rod handle means the rod is difficult to balance without adding a lot of weight to the butt end.  So, hand placement above the reel is more comfortable and less fatiguing than a palming grip because the rod can now be lighter and the rod is well balanced.  If your left hand placement is above the reel then guiding the line onto the reel is no big deal.  Its just a matter of twitching your thumb back for forth and becomes second nature.

Ron Jones

Sounds like a nice rig. My aversion against level winds is from a much more basic level. I didn't learn on them and I HATE trying to deal with them with an overrun.

Ron
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"

oc1

In my childhood I pulled the levelwind out of a Penn 9M before moving up to a squidder.  Still have both reels but they haven't seen water in a long time.

Also, you get more sensitivity laying line on the reel with your finger versus using a levelwind.  But, right now it is all about distance.

oc1

Oh.... never mind.  FishAholic, you are correct on every point. 

I removed the levelwind and finally got the new spool bearings and a new plastic spool filler/lightener for the old 5000C.  The casting distance really is good for me.  About 46 to 47 measured yards with a 3/8 ounce bucktail, twelve feet of 15# fluorocarbon leader with FG knot to 10# Power Pro slick.  Better than I hoped for.  Better than any of my spinners, better than my worn-out Lew's Inshore BB2 and about the same as my brand new just-out-of-the-box Lew's Inshore BB1.

The ergonomics of the modified 5000C sort of sucks though.  I was afraid to commit to a reel seat placement so the rod handle is old school.  The handle is just heavy cord wound around the blank and lightly varnished.  The reel is then lashed on to the rod.  (There are photos but I haven't yet figured out how to include them).  Lashing the reel a little lower on the handle and holding the rod slightly ahead of the reel used to be comfortable shore casting with a non-levelwind CT type reel.  With the hand slightly ahead of the spool the line could be leveled with the thumb and/or forefinger.  But, when casting from a canoe (or kayak) it does not work very well.  I think it is because when shorecasting you can tuck a long handle under your arm or wedge it into your waist or belly.  With a shorter elbow-length handle there is not the same stability and it would take some getting used to.

An advantage of the old round reel is there is a lot of room between the top of the spool and the crossbars on the frame.  If the line is loaded correctly and you're using only the top 50 to 60 yards of the thin braid then its difficult to screw up too badly if line is not laid completely level.  A walk-the-dog type retrieve is more than enough to level the line. 

You can palm the reel and sort of level the line with your thumb from behind on an open CT style reel, but that is not possible on a 5000C if the levelwind is removed and the top crossbar is left in place. Hence the advantage of the full CT conversion as suggested by FishAcholic.

The thing that really killed the deal is not the ergonomics, but the reel speed.  The 5000C has a four-point-something-to-one gear ratio and only about fourteen inches per turn.  I've been spoiled by a seven-point-something-to-one gear ratio and twenty-eight or more inches per turn.  I cannot crank the 5000C fast enough to skip a jib up over a coral head and was hung up more often than usual.

So, the level wind will go back on the 5000C and the reel will go back on the shelf.  Perhaps that is where is belongs.  But, the new Lew's BB1 is working out great so I'm happy for now.