Aluminum Jig Master side plate sets

Started by Cortez_Conversions, December 05, 2015, 08:10:23 PM

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swill88


Alto Mare

Post away Yogi_fish, I for one never get tired looking at that reel.
I'm not surprised about Ted, he's a good man, he also does a lot of things behind the scene quietly.

Beautiful job!

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

broadway

That's a beauty! If that one ever tries to walk off a boat with it, it'll surely be spotted ...and that person dealt with properly ;D
Ted, is that kinda guy, and Sal, is right on with most of it going on behind the scenes.  I for one have been the beneficiary of not only knowledge, reels, parts, etc, and that JalapeƱo Albacore that Kim and I have to fight over.  She usually sneaks bites while she's making the cracker spread, but doesn't think I know it ::)
Sweet reel, Yogi and class act move, Ted!

Shark Hunter

#408
That Ted is a stand up guy.
I know what you mean about that Albacore Dom. I hope I get some this year. ;D
That stuff is amazing! :P
Awesome Reel Yogi!
This earns you a Sensei Member promotion for thinking outside the box. ;)
Life is Good!

Maxed Out

Wow, now that's a head turner Yogi. Congrats on a gorgeous one off build !!  :o :o

  Ted
We Must Never Forget Our Veterans....God Bless Them All !!

Rancanfish

Ted for President !!!!!!  A reel candidate...

Better choice than the real candidates don't ya think?
I woke today and suddenly nothing happened.

Larosha

Has anyone ever tried to put a Newell tiburon spool in with their Cortez plates? I've read somewhere there is enough bearing adjustment to account for the longer shaft. I can't remember where I found that article though. Reason I ask is because I have an easier time finding colored N344 tiburon spools locally rather than Jigmaster wide spools.

Yogi_fish808

Quote from: Larosha on December 08, 2016, 10:26:37 AM
Has anyone ever tried to put a Newell tiburon spool in with their Cortez plates? I've read somewhere there is enough bearing adjustment to account for the longer shaft. I can't remember where I found that article though. Reason I ask is because I have an easier time finding colored N344 tiburon spools locally rather than Jigmaster wide spools.

I have made oem newell spools work with the cortez plates just fine, the caps do have enough adjustment to make them work. Tiburon spools at times are machined slightly out of spec, I've had problems with them like shoulders knocking the pinion even w/ spool centered, not clearing thru the pinion gear and the ends not fitting into the bearings. I chuck the shaft into a drill (protect w/ tape) wet-sand with 800 to get clearnacce. Then 1000 grit, oiled fine steel wool and stainless polish compound/nev-r-dull to get a friction free mirror finish.

steelhead_killer

Good morning reel universe:

Had a gentleman ask me to complete a build for him.  I went through my notes and read, reread, then reread this thread again to identify where the problem/solution is for this issue.  After much trial and error, I can't isolate this rubbing sound that the spool is making when engaged in the pinion.  Free spool is all of 6 seconds.  Please see/hear the video below:



Thank you in advance for any ideas or tips!

Build List:

Pro Challenger gears and pinion, spool.
SS eccentric and yoke
Cortex Conversions plates
Tib Frame.



Andy
><)))">

Alto Mare

Andy, sounds like your spool is hitting the bridge screws. Shave them down a hair and you should be set. Freespool could be improved as well, i'm not sure if your bearings have oil or grease.

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

steelhead_killer

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 19, 2017, 04:58:47 PM
Andy, sounds like your spool is hitting the bridge screws. Shave them down a hair and you should be set. Freespool could be improved as well, i'm not sure if your bearings have oil or grease.

Sal

Sal:

     I should have mentioned that in the previous post.  I shaved down the bridge screws and greased the spool side that faces the bridge to make sure they were not rubbing the spool which would show in the grease.  Bearings all have oil. 


It seems to be something between the pinion and the spool spindle?  I have tried a Penn spool and a Tib spool all make the same sound.  All have the same free spool.  I polished the spindle and the pinion.  From my notes I remembered Tom sending me some small washers for the clicker side spindle on one of my tib spools that increased free spool dramatically.  I put them on the PC spool and it helped a little with free spool but nothing like it should be and the same rubbing sound was present. Grrrr

Break time!  I'm taking the dog for a walk!  Clear my head...

Andy
><)))">

Alto Mare

Andy. looks like you have it all covered :). Remove the bridge and see if the pinion slides all the eway up on the shaft with very little effort.
Also, while you have that pinion out, rub the bottom part on a piece of 250 grit or 500.
When you spin the spool in free position, tilt the reel on the side, having the handle facing up. If the rubbing stops, you will need a heavier spacer on the handle side, unless you 're able to tighten that bearing cup a little more.
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

bluefish69

Andy

If you look at your first picture the spool is not centered. Back out the clicker side Bearing Cup a 1/2 turn & see what happens.

Mike
I have not failed.  I just found 10,000 ways that won't work.

PacRat

Andy,
It sounds like you've covered your bases. If performing Sal's bearing adjustment does not fix this there are two more things that might help. I also believe that you may be dealing with two separate issues.

1) This is an old trick from the Newell kits. Slightly loosen the side plate screws on one side, then give that sideplate a twist like you're taking the lid off a jar. Tighten the screws and give her a spin to see if your rub has gone away. Do this both clock-wise and counter-clock-wise to see if your contact goes away. Do one side at a time. It may take a few tries. If this doesn't get it; try doing both plates at the same time in opposite directions. The tolerances are very tight so a little movement goes a long way.
Once you're resolved the contact issue; free-spool may or may not improve. If not, proceed to step 2 to improve free-spool.

2) I have found that with a lot of the Jigmaster aluminum sideplates, that free-spool is not quite as good as we would expect. For a lot of us this isn't an issue (depending on what we are casting). But there is nothing quite as satisfying as a good, long free-spool. With these conversions we often get less free-spool with bearings than we had with bushings. I'm convinced that this is due to friction between the spool shaft and the pinion. I came to this conclusion because a new build will free-spool like crazy without gears then will drop way off once the drive-train is installed. Sal's polishing of the shaft and pinion does wonders to eliminate much of this friction. My way to check this is to turn the crank with the reel in free-spool. This pinion-to-shaft friction will be enough to turn the spool. Less friction will turn it less. This is a good indicator of how well your pinion is disengaging and floating on the shaft. Bushing Jigmasters actually engage the pinion onto the bushing (the bushing penetrates into the counter-bore in the rear of the pinion gear) which keeps the shaft and pinion in perfect alignment with very little friction between the shaft and pinion. When we do away with the bushings for bearings we lose this alignment aid. You will notice this if you compare both types of bridge/plates with the plate off the frame while shifting in and out of free-spool. The bushing pinion will disengage squarely while the bearing pinion will tilt somewhat. I have never owned a 505/506 so I'm not certain how or if Penn addressed this in their bearing reels. I call this 'pinion tilt' and it will cause a 5 second free-spool in even the finest tuned custom bearing sideplate Jigmaster. This will vary with the mass of your spool and line but is typically less than 9 seconds of free-spool on an empty spool. If you intend to hurl jigs this won't bother you but if you plan to fly-line pinhead anchovies on light line you might want to improve this. Sometimes I ditch my new stainless eccentric jack for a stock Penn jack. This seems to improve the geometry and lessen the amount of 'pinion tilt' by squaring up the yoke with the springs compressed. This has to do with the overall geometry and the exact location where the ears contact the yoke. Think of your yoke as a parallel plane. If your yoke tilts so will your pinion. This is a spring-loaded balancing act as you need good alignment/orientation and yet still somewhat sloppy for your reel to function (this is one area where sloppy is good). I've found that I can go through my used parts bin trying jacks until I find a sweet one that free-spools best. I don't want to over complicate this but this is what has worked for me and I have seen some dramatic improvement in free-spool times. You also need to be very thorough and perform all of Sal's pinion and shaft polishing procedure.

-Mike

Alto Mare

This is a good place for me to ask this question, it might be related to the issue above.
I do not have any of Tom's Classic jigmaster kits, but did 3 last week and everything went in with no issues, no spacers needed or anything else. I did shorten the bridge screws.
I do have a 4 sets of Tom's first run jigmasters, those do require shims.
If anyone happens to have both, could you measure the width of the two frames?... Standard and Classic. Please let me know if they're the same or if the Tiburon is a hair wider.

Thanks!

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.