Squidder 146 gear options?

[steelhead_killer]

Guys:

I have read through the links on the Squidders and I have questions:

Is there anyway of putting faster gears in a 146?
If so, which gears, work from what model or manufacture?
If not, then ok...she will stay slow...

Thanks!

Andy

[PacRat]

The best way to a faster squidder is to buy a Newell 200 series. I don't think squidder geometry will support faster gears. Of course we could beg Tom to offer us a Squidder Magnum sideplate set with 500 gears but he's very busy. Newell 200 series is likely the best way at this time.
-Mike

[steelhead_killer]

Thank you PacRat

[MarkT]

Yep, the upgraded 146/145/140 is the Newell 220/229/235. They have 5:1 gears and Jigmaster drags.

[bluefish69]

The price of Newell Reels is really getting stupid. Be careful when you buy them.

[MarkT]

Oh yeah, clear plastic Newells are stupid expensive. A stock black G can still be had for $125.

[Marcq]

Yep, the upgraded 146/145/140 is the Newell 220/229/235. They have 5:1 gears and Jigmaster drags.

So what would you need beside the gear/pinion?

I would love upgraded gears for the squidder 

Marc..

[oc1]

I think you would need a larger side plate and bridge.  The pinion can't get much smaller so the main gear has to get larger which means the side plate has to get larger to accommodate it.  Modern high speed reels have that asymmetrical drop-down side plate thing to make room for the larger main gear.  You could also add a third gear to get more speed but then the side plate gets wider and more tricky.
-steve

[Marcq]

Wonder how many tooth you could add to the main gear and take off from the pinion with the stock plate  Because there is space, not much but..

Marc..

[jurelometer]

Wonder how many tooth you could add to the main gear and take off from the pinion with the stock plate   Because there is space, not much but..

Marc..

The trick is to change the ratio of the pitch circles of the gears.   Think of the pitch circle as being what the gears would look like if they touched, but had no teeth.  Adding or removing teeth on the gears without changing the pitch ratio, probably won't work. You are basically increasing or decreasing the backlash that was designed into the gears, and there is not much backlash to play with. making the teeth smaller will allow you to change the pitch/gear ratio a little bit, but the smaller teeth make weaker gears.

To increase the gear ratio with out changing the center distance of the gears, you need to make the main gear larger, and the pinion gear correspondingly smaller.     If there is not enough room to make the pinion smaller (as others have noted),  then you have to move the center of the gears farther apart.   To move the gears farther apart, you need a different sideplate, bridge, etc.  

Specific to the classic Penn star drag designs:  The AR ratchet teeth, actually fit inside the spool lip.   If you move the gears further apart, you also have to change the spool spindle, so that the ratchet teeth are no longer inside the spool lip, but actually past the end of the spool. This is accomplished by moving the bridge about .2 inches further out from the center of the spool (this would also be the width of an adapter plate that would allow you to use a jigmaster right sideplate and gear set with a squidder frame.)

I suspect that this is what the Accurate Magnum kits probably do (with the adapter plate and sideplate combined into one part).   Others  have also taken this design approach (Pro Gear, Newell), but using more proprietary parts.

To carry this to its logical conclusion:  

With all the parts the members have made, we could actually make as complete reel that would be the modernized competitor of a squidder magnum, and a very nice reel for modern spectra and mono lines.   Replacement parts would be widely available from Penn and aftermarket suppliers.  The only thing missing is a standard sized  spool with a slightly modified spindle, and an adapter plate that would allow a jigmaster right sideplate to bolt onto a squidder frame.  Of course, a new sideplate that did not need an adapter could also be made, or even a complete reel kit.    

I have brought this idea up with several of the usual suspects.    My hope would be that if someone decides to make spools or full kits, we can publish the spool/spindle dimensions, so that parts from various members or outside suppliers could work together.    

If folks are interested, I could start a new thread on an "open design"  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_design) reel that would be based on a squidder frame and spool size, with jigmaster compatible gears/parts).  IMHO this could be a better reel than other star drags on the market (right size, competitive performance, proven design, and widely available parts).

-Jurelometer

[Marcq]

Wonder how many tooth you could add to the main gear and take off from the pinion with the stock plate   Because there is space, not much but..

Marc..

The trick is to change the ratio of the pitch circles of the gears.   Think of the pitch circle as being what the gears would look like if they touched, but had no teeth.  Adding or removing teeth on the gears without changing the pitch ratio, probably won't work. You are basically increasing or decreasing the backlash that was designed into the gears, and there is not much backlash to play with. making the teeth smaller will allow you to change the pitch/gear ratio a little bit, but the smaller teeth make weaker gears.

To increase the gear ratio with out changing the center distance of the gears, you need to make the main gear larger, and the pinion gear correspondingly smaller.     If there is not enough room to make the pinion smaller (as others have noted),  then you have to move the center of the gears farther apart.   To move the gears farther apart, you need a different sideplate, bridge, etc.  

Specific to the classic Penn star drag designs:  The AR ratchet teeth, actually fit inside the spool lip.   If you move the gears further apart, you also have to change the spool spindle, so that the ratchet teeth are no longer inside the spool lip, but actually past the end of the spool. This is accomplished by moving the bridge about .2 inches further out from the center of the spool (this would also be the width of an adapter plate that would allow you to use a jigmaster right sideplate and gear set with a squidder frame.)

I suspect that this is what the Accurate Magnum kits probably do (with the adapter plate and sideplate combined into one part).   Others  have also taken this design approach (Pro Gear, Newell), but using more proprietary parts.

To carry this to its logical conclusion:  

With all the parts the members have made, we could actually make as complete reel that would be the modernized competitor of a squidder magnum, and a very nice reel for modern spectra and mono lines.   Replacement parts would be widely available from Penn and aftermarket suppliers.  The only thing missing is a standard sized  spool with a slightly modified spindle, and an adapter plate that would allow a jigmaster right sideplate to bolt onto a squidder frame.  Of course, a new sideplate that did not need an adapter could also be made, or even a complete reel kit.    

I have brought this idea up with several of the usual suspects.    My hope would be that if someone decides to make spools or full kits, we can publish the spool/spindle dimensions, so that parts from various members or outside suppliers could work together.    

If folks are interested, I could start a new thread on an "open design"  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_design) reel that would be based on a squidder frame and spool size, with jigmaster compatible gears/parts).  IMHO this could be a better reel than other star drags on the market (right size, competitive performance, proven design, and widely available parts).

-Jurelometer

Thanks!! Really informative 

Marc..

[jurelometer]

Wonder how many tooth you could add to the main gear and take off from the pinion with the stock plate   Because there is space, not much but..

Marc..

The trick is to change the ratio of the pitch circles of the gears.   Think of the pitch circle as being what the gears would look like if they touched, but had no teeth.  Adding or removing teeth on the gears without changing the pitch ratio, probably won't work. You are basically increasing or decreasing the backlash that was designed into the gears, and there is not much backlash to play with. making the teeth smaller will allow you to change the pitch/gear ratio a little bit, but the smaller teeth make weaker gears.

To increase the gear ratio with out changing the center distance of the gears, you need to make the main gear larger, and the pinion gear correspondingly smaller.     If there is not enough room to make the pinion smaller (as others have noted),  then you have to move the center of the gears farther apart.   To move the gears farther apart, you need a different sideplate, bridge, etc.  

Specific to the classic Penn star drag designs:  The AR ratchet teeth, actually fit inside the spool lip.   If you move the gears further apart, you also have to change the spool spindle, so that the ratchet teeth are no longer inside the spool lip, but actually past the end of the spool. This is accomplished by moving the bridge about .2 inches further out from the center of the spool (this would also be the width of an adapter plate that would allow you to use a jigmaster right sideplate and gear set with a squidder frame.)

I suspect that this is what the Accurate Magnum kits probably do (with the adapter plate and sideplate combined into one part).   Others  have also taken this design approach (Pro Gear, Newell), but using more proprietary parts.

To carry this to its logical conclusion:  

With all the parts the members have made, we could actually make as complete reel that would be the modernized competitor of a squidder magnum, and a very nice reel for modern spectra and mono lines.   Replacement parts would be widely available from Penn and aftermarket suppliers.  The only thing missing is a standard sized  spool with a slightly modified spindle, and an adapter plate that would allow a jigmaster right sideplate to bolt onto a squidder frame.  Of course, a new sideplate that did not need an adapter could also be made, or even a complete reel kit.    

I have brought this idea up with several of the usual suspects.    My hope would be that if someone decides to make spools or full kits, we can publish the spool/spindle dimensions, so that parts from various members or outside suppliers could work together.    

If folks are interested, I could start a new thread on an "open design"  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_design) reel that would be based on a squidder frame and spool size, with jigmaster compatible gears/parts).  IMHO this could be a better reel than other star drags on the market (right size, competitive performance, proven design, and widely available parts).

-Jurelometer

Thanks!! Really informative 

Marc..

You're welcome.

Of course I realized that I just made a slight mistake : On a stock reel - the entire bridge plate fits inside the spool lip.  so the spindle has to be extended so that a wider bridge plate clears the spool. 

[steelhead_killer]

Do it!  Let's see where this goes...if nothing else it will be a great source of quality information!