Senator 114, 114-LH

[sdlehr]

Post questions about this reel in this thread

[sdlehr]

This reel was recently gifted to me. I've just had a chance to examine it more closely, and it's got some interesting features. I'm interested in dating it. It's a mostly non-numbered reel of the second generation configuration. The only numbered part on the outside is the right side bushing. I don't know if it's original. If it is, that's significant in assigning date of production, but confusing. I haven't done anything with it yet. I plan to do lots. Here it is at first glance. It's got the newer, round harness lugs.





Upon closer inspection, the surface of the spool flanges look different, and the spool arbor has no chrome. We've seen this here before. This is another of the spools with the German silver flanges that I seem to be finding. If I've been doing this less than a year and have found three so far, I'm sure they are in your collection somewhere. I'm not that talented and these can't be that scarce.









Here's the typical look of these German silver flanges;



The arbors of these spools look the same, and so far all the ones I have found (3 now) have posts, not drilled arbors. This one has been abused, but when I finish cleaning it will not show signs of having been chromed at any point



It's got the tall counterweight with the coin-edge



The biggest surprise was that it came with a rosewood torpedo handle. I've seen these on Delmar 285's, on Seagate 126's, on a Senator 115, and I've heard they can be found on early 1940's Senator 116's and 116A's (12/0 and 10/0). I'm not sure if this handle has been found on a 6/0 reel before.



I'm doing some work on the reel today - general clean-up and polishing, and I'm going to make those spool flanges shine. I'll post pictures when I'm done, but probably in the Antiques/collectibles folder. I'll also post pics of the guts after I get inside.

So here are my thoughts, and someone can tell me if I'm on track. The counterweight is mid-late thirties, the right side plate is 40's (but when? Is this a pre-war 2nd gen?), the spools of this type are often seen from during and after WWII. The rosewood handle is a pre-'39 feature in the Delmars and Senators (I think). So this reel seems to be all over the place for me. I'm sure I'm overcomplicating things, so I'm eager to hear from the folks that know this stuff best.

Sid

[RowdyW]

Sid, 114 & 115 handles are the same thing. Both use the same bridge sleeve.        Rudy

[sdlehr]

Sid, 114 & 115 handles are the same thing. Both use the same bridge sleeve.        Rudy

Thanks Rudy. I had thought so, went to a spare 115 handle I had (or so I thought), but must have picked up something else, because I see that what you say is right now, but whatever I had picked up didn't fit. I had my SS 113 sleeve on the bench, I must have picked that up thinking it was the 114 sleeve.... I don't know what I did, they're not the same size or color. Brain fart time, I guess.

I'm quite sure that the drag star and stand are also German silver on this reel. I'll post up picks soon. The key to recognizing these German silver components (so far, for me) has been that there is no green corrosion on any of these. This spool was pitted in places, but no verdigris was anywhere. That's why I think the stand and star are G silver - same deal.

Here's pics



I don't think there's anything else special about this reel. Nothing numbered inside, steel main and pinion. I don't think that will help with the dating any.



I mentioned that the spool was pitted. I had to go down to 220 grit paper to get the pitting out, then went up to 2000 to finish it up. The arbor still needs a little help... here was what it looked like after the 220 - a surface similar to the chromed bronze one-piece spools... and much less like a Vom Hofe and much more Penn-looking



I lost the freaking AR spring some time during the cleaning. Until I can get another from Scotts this baby is going to sit partially-assembled, unless I can find one locally.

Here's what I was able to do with the spool

[RowdyW]

No green stuff. It was all washed with vinegar.

[sdlehr]

Yes, Rudy, this is the reel you gave me a week or two ago. I should have looked at it more closely then. But then you might not have wanted to give it to me   (For anyone wondering, I've privately offered to give this back to Rudy if he wants it back).

I'll easily believe there was green crud on the brass spool arbor, on the rings and posts, and screw heads too, they're all brass. The star, stand and spool will be a harder sell. The handle arm looks like it may also be German silver, but I'm not sure about anything but the spool yet. Here's the handle, and it clearly shows chrome missing, but underneath is not brass (which is why these don't turn green when the chrome comes off). the jury is still out on this handle arm, though...

[mo65]

   I got myself a 114 in average condition...the first photo shows what it looked like on arrival. I tore it down and broke out the elbow grease, changed the asbestos 3-stack to a greased carbon fiber 5-stack, added a new under gear spacer, and used a stainless steel yoke. This is the first Penn I've acquired that had all the power I'd ever need in stock form. It's big and bulky, but there is no way 20-25lbs. of drag could ever hurt this thing.

[Reel 224]

Mo: what are you going to fish with that reel/114? Fresh or Salt.

Joe

[foakes]

Nice job, Mike --

You know your way around a Penn.

Best,

Fred

[RowdyW]

Mo, it looks like you will be able to go after any catfish in the world. Maybe someday try it out on a Wells Catfish.        Rudy

[Maxed Out]

Nice job on the restoration Mo. It looks like a completely different reel. Two thumbs up my friend !!

[mo65]

   Thanks fellas! The mechanics inside turned out really well too. The main is a nice low mileage steel gear...and the stock sleeve was nice and tight on the handle connection. I found a cool way to shim the sleeve to reduce that lateral play that everyone hates. I actually needed 8 thousandths to fill the gap...but I used a 5 thousandths shim and bent it like a wave washer. It seemed to hold the shape well enough to keep the sleeve pushed against the pin...so no annoying "klunk" in the handle...but still allowing 3 thousandths play for swell from heat! If you're one of those guys who worries about getting the sleeve to tight...but still wants a solid feel...ya might wanna pursue this.

Mo: what are you going to fish with that reel/114? Fresh or Salt.

   I'd love to fish the salt again some time...it's been years. If it was trolling this reel would definitely accompany me. I thought about toting it down to the dam and scare all the locals...hee hee! It would be a trophy hunter for sure!

[Tbrom]

This is my first post here and I wanted to say hello and introduce myself. I have been "acquiring" fly reels for years and recently started doing the same with others. I was at a yard sale and I picked this senator up for $10 With a rod. The only issue that it has is the handle is bent. I would really appreciate any info on mfg date. I am guessing late 60s but have no idea.  Thanks

[RowdyW]

Welcome Tbrom, that sure is a nice 6/0 and only $10 ? WOW!           Rudy

[Bill B]

TB that was a steal....good job on picking that up.....based on the part numbers present on the reel, we can only state it was built after 1950....that is basically when Penn started using part numbers on all the parts......if you had any paper work like a catalogue we could pin point the year.....if you could show us a picture of the bend in the handle we might be able to provide a solution......Bill