Senator 115, 115-LH, 115L, 115L-LH (9/0)

Started by sdlehr, April 07, 2016, 02:46:23 AM

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54bullseye

#60
Quote from: 1badf350 on December 24, 2017, 09:04:51 PM
I have a pre war gen 2 with no front lugs. Well at least thats what you guys told me it was LOL

Yeah Chris that 9/0 and box is about as good as they get !! Wouldn't it be great to find a complete set from 4/0 up like that !!!  Really great find Chris.  John Taylor

Maxed Out


Sweet early 9/0 Martin

The fishing scene on tail plate began with gen2 9/0....I have yet to see a gen1 with fishing scene on the tail plate

My 1st gen with exposed drags also has experimental gears. I'd like to know if they put those same gears in the other gen1 that have been found with outer drag access.

  Ted
We Must Never Forget Our Veterans....God Bless Them All !!

1badf350

Martin, yes mine has the same fish scene as yours.

-Chris

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
John Wayne as J.B. Books in "The Shootist"

Deepennz

Hi There,

Chris - thank you for that photo - that reel is pure eye candy!!

Ted - thank you for your input -What do you mean by 'experimental gears"? I have never had to disassemble my 1st Gen, external drag 9/0. All I did to it was give it 3 hours of gentle finger massage with Nevr-Dull. Truly amazing what that stuff does for old reels. Great tip!!

I have been doing a bit more reading.  On page 66 of Mike's Yellow book there is an ad for Penn Senators for 1940. I quote - "All models are equipped with harness lugs and rod clamps.  Forward rod brace on 10/0 and 12/0 sizes."

However, the 1941 ad, on page 80 reads - "All models are equipped with harness lugs and rod clamps. Forward rod brace on 9/0, 10/0 and 12/0 sizes."

Hence, at the beginning of 1941, Penn were advertising for sale the reel/model that I have pictured above even though the  picture with the ad didn't reflect this change.
So, in the 730 days from the beginning of 1939 to the end of 1940, Penn made 4 changes to the head plate of the 9/0, finally arriving at my reel, pictured above.
Some time in 1940 Penn changed the 9/0 from 1st Gen, internal drag, to 1st gen, external drag. Then they changed to 2nd Gen, no rod lugs, as per Chris's reel above, and then to the reel advertised in their 1941 catalogue.
This also explains why, although they are not common, it is easier to find a 1936 - 1938 model(1100 days of production) than any/all of the two other 1st Gen variants.

When I started this line of enquiry back in June 17, I wrote of the concept of Occam's Razor - that, in the absence of 100% proof, then the simplest explanation for observed changes/phenonema is the correct answer. We have written proof(pages 66 and 80, the yellow book) that sometime in 1940, Penn changed the 9/0 from 1st Gen to 2nd. All the observed/found reels support this assertion. The most logical time for Penn to have changed all the other Senators to 2nd Gen is at the same time, for the same ergodynamic reason.

This is, I believe, supported by the fact that there just aren't alot of large, 1st Gen Senators out there, as one would expect if the change occurred later.

Cheers
Martin



1badf350

#64
Martin here's another one for you i just acquired.

-Chris

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
John Wayne as J.B. Books in "The Shootist"

Cuttyhunker

This came to me from Gramps and looks to be an early gen 2 as it was loaded with twisted linen (carefully saved) and it is a Phillie reel.  I'm getting ready to spool it up with mono and put it on a tuna stick.  Is this in any way a collector or just an old girl to get back out there?  A little Corriosion-X and functions smooth. Thanks
Doomed from childhood

1badf350

#66
I see part numbers so its made after 1950. If you want to fish it go for it (or at least I would)
I dont know when they changed the design of the handle side spool bearing but someone else will.
-Chris

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
John Wayne as J.B. Books in "The Shootist"

Maxed Out

#67
 Looking at the oversized oil port on the knob, I'd say early 1950's....

....also, the logo was moved to 12 o'clock position sometime around 1960
We Must Never Forget Our Veterans....God Bless Them All !!

Cuttyhunker

Thanks guys, early 50's sounds about right from Gramps,  going to take her fishing again.  Old but not really a collector piece.
Doomed from childhood

milne

Hi Guys,
              Just trying to catalog my reels and I was unsure of this 1st generation 9/0.
      From what I'm reading, the handle should make it 36-38 as after this they went to a torpedo handle.
     Is this a correct assumption and the best I could date it,  no box.

Col

thorhammer

Quote from: Cuttyhunker on August 20, 2018, 04:46:33 PM
This came to me from Gramps and looks to be an early gen 2 as it was loaded with twisted linen (carefully saved) and it is a Phillie reel.  I'm getting ready to spool it up with mono and put it on a tuna stick.  Is this in any way a collector or just an old girl to get back out there?  A little Corriosion-X and functions smooth. Thanks


Cant see if it's a three piece spool but if so, load some dacron or braid on it then topshot your mono to avoid blow up.

Deepennz

Hi Col,
That handle type, with the built in oil port dates that reel at 1938 - prior to that Penn made bell shaped handles, but they had no oil port.
That looks to be a lovely example - well done!!
Cheers
Martin

milne

Martin,  Thanks for that.
       There's a few other Penns with that oil port handle that date to 38, So I was inclined to write it down as that.
     But I couldn't distinguish in old photo's whether the 36-37 were just a bell shape or they had the oil port.
     I know I did read it somewhere, but couldn't for the life of me find the reference.

Duly now noted down, cheers

Col

Penn Chronology

QuoteThere's a few other Penns with that oil port handle that date to 38, So I was inclined to write it down as that.
     But I couldn't distinguish in old photo's whether the 36-37 were just a bell shape or they had the oil port.
     I know I did read it somewhere, but couldn't for the life of me find the reference.

Hello Col,

Your reel could be anywhere from 1936 to 1938. That handle was used in all those years. In 1939 Penn switched to the torpedo handle. In the photo, the center reel is sitting on top of the 1936 box it was found in, it is a 1936 Senator 115 with the handle (with an oiler). I dated it by the 1936 brochure that was in the box.

The second phot is the whole 1936 package.


milne

Hi Mike,
            OK, thanks for that.  Pity this one never came with a box to be more accurate, but I'll list it down then as 36-38.
         Wow, that's a nice photo of all the variants right there !!!!  beautiful.
      I haven't been to diligent in recording exact details on my reels thus far, so it's been an interesting exercise going over them and actually writing down
     the specific information. Your books are a brilliant point of reference, I seem to miss things the first time, then pick up on other things when I Re read it again,  it keeps on giving !!
Thanks again.

Col