alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Penn Baja Special anti-reverse problem
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
October 23, 2018, 04:55:32 PM *
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Author Topic: Penn Baja Special anti-reverse problem  (Read 38943 times)
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steelfish
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« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2016, 05:16:35 PM »

This issue on the Baja keeps resurfacing, we talked about this before and never got anywhere.
Maybe Tom will get it done this time.
I still recommend a new ratchet to go with the new dogs:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14.msg159300#msg159300

...just my opinion.

Sal

well that would be the perfect solution, a ratchet thicker enough to have full contact with the width of the dog

as you see on my 1st pics the dog get damaged depending on the area the ratchet tooth was making contact with the dog and since ratchet teeth are thinner than the dog it just cut trough it.

but yes, totally agree with you, lets see what Tom could do on this issue.
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Rivverrat
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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2016, 06:33:10 PM »

Here is a pic. The bronze Rachet came out of my new US113. The stainless out of a Baja.

I don't know if some are are throwing the lever forward on a hard running  fish....I've found that will trash the dogs or rachet in short order & will eventually push the studs the dogs ride on out  sideways from the bridge.

However what ever method or material is used for these dogs it's not good.... Jeff


* 1462329072951-1855483484.jpg (2838.99 KB, 5312x2988 - viewed 182 times.)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 07:16:30 AM by Rivverrat » Logged
johndtuttle
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« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2016, 12:08:23 PM »

All we can do is read the "tea leaves" on this one. I linked this thread to their service department and they said their engineer is following.

If Penn is changing to a brass ratchet then, in their judgement, the SS ratchet was apparently too hard and apparently the source of damage to the dogs. Something with a little more give is needed to balance the shock of sudden engagement etc. A better balance of materials used etc.

My knock on the current system was mentioned in another thread, something easier to assemble and stay assembled when working on the reel would be preferable.

Regardless, the question, going forward, is if this current solution is adequate. Time will tell.
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borchcl
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« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2016, 01:43:16 PM »

It would be great if Tom would run some dogs using 17-4 h900 at near max hardness. I would be interested in three sets. The ones i've had fail appear to be sintered form some kind of powdered metal (??).
Regards,
Charlie
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Tightlines666
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« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2016, 01:44:04 PM »

The switch to brass may also have been in an attempt to quiet, and smooth the reel down a bit?

It will be interesting to see what developments/changes the future may hold for this model.

John
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steelfish
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« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2016, 02:03:54 PM »

The switch to brass may also have been in an attempt to quiet, and smooth the reel down a bit?

This reel is really quiet, if you crank the handle indoors you only hear the dogs working, it's actually a nice sound.
And if you crank the handle fast when fishing the reel is pretty smooth and quiet, no gear sounds at all.
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steelfish
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« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2016, 02:57:36 PM »

..........& will eventually pull the studs the dogs ride on out  sideways from the bridge.


hmm have you found this problem on a Baja special?

this might be the culprit of the Baja reel Im checking, as I wrote in my 1st post, although the reel has new dogs already and new dog springs, after some cranks on the handle and moving the spool lever 2-3 back and forth (activate/dis activate) the reel lose the anti-reverse..
if what you said it a problem the studs where the dogs ride in could have been moved a bit futher and cause the dogs to dont reach the ratchet anymore under a minimal antireverse force.. I need to check that too.

I didnt knew this could happen under heavy drag setting or as you say, it can be caused if someone is trowing the lever on a running fish
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steelfish
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« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2016, 08:24:30 PM »

............ & will eventually pull the studs the dogs ride on out  sideways from the bridge.

... Jeff

Jeff, thanks a lot compadre, your were right

now I know this Baja Special reel had two problems, the dogs material used and the studs move sideway under lot of pressure causing new dogs to dont reach the ratchet after few cranks when installed.

so boys and girls, next time your Baja Special or US Senator have trasher dogs, check the studs of the bridge too.

check these next pics from my friend's reel, I will remark he uses the reel at leat 3-4 times per week on his sporfishing panga business, according to him he uses 300yds 50# braid as filler and 60# mono to the top used as long leader on this reel, and normally bottoned tight to get the fish out from the structure.


front side view



rear side view



maybe he is just putting this reel capabilities to the max on every fishing trip to have this kind of issues.
new bridge is coming his way.

this post is never intended to talk trash about the Baja Special, heck Im actually looking to get a US Senator standar widtn or another used Baja Special, these reels work wonders on this water, if you are a weekend warrior, the reel will last years with no problems and if you use it as loaner on a charter the cost of yearly maintenance and repair its not that bad $4 for dogs and $25 for new bridge, fill it with braid line cost 2x more than that.


« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 08:30:31 PM by steelfish » Logged

Alto Mare
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« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2016, 10:34:00 PM »

this post is never intended to talk trash about the Baja Special


There isn't anything wrong with pointing out the good and the bad on a reel, this helps manufacturers produce a better product, I'm sure Penn appreciates everyone's opinion.
Could you show a pic of the under side of that bridge, or could you let me know if the dog posts are peened ?
Thanks Alex.

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mhc
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« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2016, 04:28:37 AM »


Could you show a pic of the under side of that bridge, or could you let me know if the dog posts are peened ?
Thanks Alex.


That's a good point Sal, looking at Steelfish's photos in the first post of this thread, it looks like the posts aren't peened. If the posts were installed flush with the back of the bridge, it also shows they have pulled through a bit.

Mike
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It can't be too difficult - a lot of people do it.
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« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2016, 10:51:23 AM »

Steelfish,  I'm unable to say just how  glad I am that I was able to help.
Through my own destructive testing the US113  has taught me a lot.  At one time I was buying every Baja or US113 that I could get cheap & then set about seeing what kind of abuse it could handle. This reel has shown me what to look for in other reels I purchase for my heavy line use.

Let me just say I REALLY LIKE THIS REEL !  For a U.S. made star drag reel at its price, producing the drag it does & with its casting ability there is nothing I'm aware of that comes close. However as some of us have found this reel could use some improvements when it comes to fishing it at its higher range. My looking into these issues has lead me to believe the reason why they have not come up earlier is because most who have made use of this reel in the past & present load it with 40 - 50 lb. line. Also it seems a lot of people who fish all the time turn their nose at this reel.
When fishing this reel in the 25 lb. drag range I've found filling the reel to to within a 1/4" - 1/2" of its spool capacity goes a long ways to help alleviate some of the issues I've experienced. 30 lbs. or more drag can be had if one can get by fishing this reel reel short of its capacity. When doing this an appropriate rod is a necessity because turning the handle at this drag aint happening with this reel for any length of time while it's in the hands of a mere mortal.  

Changes I would like to see.....
1}  The studs for the dogs at the very least need to be of a bigger diameter where they fit into the bridge. This would give the peening process more area to purchase & spread the load out. The topside where the dogs fit can be same diameter. These studs are the foundation of strength for this reel. At the same time I realize the thinking behind designing a safe failure point. However there is still room for that here while also strengthening this area.

2} This nonsense of a an anti reverse system.... Could there possibly be an upgrade kit made to purchase? At this point silent style dogs or spring of a different design would be so much of an improvement.

3} OK I get it. Probably wont happen. But how about some lower gears so those of us mortals using this reel have some chance at turning the handle while making use of the drag this reel makes ?....Jeff
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 11:18:11 AM by Rivverrat » Logged
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« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2016, 11:00:06 AM »

Steelfish, forgot to mention the peening has been weak on some reels I've seen. I'm not a big fan of these post/studs being peened in place....Jeff
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steelfish
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« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2016, 12:23:37 PM »


Could you show a pic of the under side of that bridge, or could you let me know if the dog posts are peened ?

Sal,

I have some pictures as you requested, and some better front pictures of how the studs are bent

















I dont know if adding a drop of a really strong epoxic on the base of the stud and them punch it back with a hammer will make that bridge work again.


Jeff, really interesting proposed changes on your last post.
You know, I was thinking that they could have gone with the same technique of using the screws that attach the sideplate and the bridge as stud for the dog as its used on the rest of the Senator family, I have never seen a bridge screw on a 113h / 114h bent like that.
but as you said, that will never happen on a setup like this one, Alan (black pear) just did a double dog bridge like this one for the 113h (damn it, I just cancelled my order for one, ooh well), it would have been nice to have it at this moment and check how he put the studs on his DD bridge.
I will have to order one later from Smoothdrag.




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Alto Mare
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« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2016, 01:16:36 PM »

Alex, great pics! thanks.
I am a fan of peening the posts, it has been working for Penn well over 80 years, I just don't see why they changed it.
If the two posts were peened, I could pretty much bet what you see would have never happened.
Peening keeps the post square to the bridge, while the post itself absorbs the load.
I'm surprised Penn decided to go with a stainless steel post press fit into a softer material Undecided.


By the way, Pro Challenger's posts are peened in place.
 

Sal
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RowdyW
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« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2016, 05:41:00 PM »




By the way, Pro Challenger's posts are peened in place.
 

Sal
And in a stainless steel plate.
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