Penn Baja Special anti-reverse problem

[Rancanfish]

There is not a thing in this lifetime that cannot break down when subjected to enough stress.

A reasonable expectation of performance improvement is all we can hope for.  I would be willing to go with the improved version now.  That is not to say Tom won't make tweaks to his product, but am I really ever going to stop a freight train 100% of the time?  And still be able to afford it? 

Fewer, stronger parts on a proven reel?  Gimme two please.   

[Alto Mare]

 Be sure to click image in the upper right hand corner
https://goo.gl/photos/qhxVFw9L9NhBuRVH8

That looks like a good punishment to me, but if it worked for you, great. These reels and also the penn 113H's are not easy to put into gear when under stress, unless you help them a little with your thumb by holding the spool at the same time and also try to back it up a hair.
There isn't anything wrong with it, it's just the way it is. There have been some discussions on this, my opinion is that the cause is from having helical cut gears. If the gears were cut straight, I believe the gears would engage with less effort.
With that said, I prefer helical cut gears.

Sorry for pulling away from the custom bridge, but this is  worth mentioning, since you've dropped 75lbs and shifted it into gear at the same time.

There is not a thing in this lifetime that cannot break down when subjected to enough stress.

A reasonable expectation of performance improvement is all we can hope for.  I would be willing to go with the improved version now.  That is not to say Tom won't make tweaks to his product, but am I really ever going to stop a freight train 100% of the time?  And still be able to afford it?  

Fewer, stronger parts on a proven reel?  Gimme two please.  

Well said! I agree!

[Rivverrat]

Sal, appreciate you passing your blessing on my test.
I will get some more video up as soon as I sort out what I'm doing wrong. Just to be clear.....I was allowing the weight to gain speed prior to throwing the lever forward. Bit of a difference than doing both simultaneously ....Jeff

[jurelometer]

The weight was dropped with clicker on then the lever thrown forward. If you listen closely you can hear the clicker stop after the lever is thrown forward. meaning the force is being held by the anti reverse for a moment. I believe there would be no difference at this drag setting, with the results regardless of weight used in this type of test with this reel.

Again while this is not a fish this type of thing can I believe show with decent certainty that we are at a better place than before.  Guys I'm having trouble posting video. Just got word, got to pack up to leave. Not Good
I cant do this right now. I'm having no luck posting any more video. Could use some help....Jeff

Hey Jeff,

This is a great test!  Probably the most stressful test for a star drag, and something that happens under real usage.  It would be interesting to see what happens if this was done a couple hundred times, but that would be pretty time consuming.    As a note,  since the spool is not full, this test equates to a lighter drag testing at the same setting with a full spool (maybe 20 lbs instead of 25?)

It would not be surprising if the limiting factor is now another component.    How is the pinion to spool junction holding up?

BTW-  not trying to throw any shade on Tom's great upgrade, just sharing some ideas on how to quantify it.

-J

[Rivverrat]

Hey Jeff,

This is a great test!  Probably the most stressful test for a star drag, and something that happens under real usage.  It would be interesting to see what happens if this was done a couple hundred times, but that would be pretty time consuming.    As a note,  since the spool is not full, this test equates to a lighter drag testing at the same setting with a full spool (maybe 20 lbs instead of 25?)

It would not be surprising if the limiting factor is now another component.    How is the pinion to spool junction holding up?

BTW-  not trying to throw any shade on Tom's great upgrade, just sharing some ideas on how to quantify it.

-J

Based on prior discussion with you I thought you might like that. Good catch on noticing the spool wasn't topped off. I fished the reel this way in an attempt to lower the stress on the internals.  Knowing what you state about a reel with drag set with half spool to be true, I was at first going to fill the spool. However after some thought & my desire to not just go out & destroy Tom's work. But to take it slow & see if any areas of stress show along the way with a longer process. Such as what you bring up being the pinion spool area.

Now that I have established we are at a better place I will do all the next testing with spool filled. Any one can take something mechanical & find out very quickly what breaks it. I feel that if I at any point blow up Tom's work I have failed him & my intentions here. That being to find out if he has in fact made something better. I believe I have proved to myself beyond just looking at his great work, that in fact he has....Jeff  

[handi2]

We do a lot of deep dropping with heavy weighs up to 5lbs, most commonly 3lbs. It's not just a Penn thing having to rock the spool back. We have to do it on all reels when there under load and much less than 5lbs.

[steelfish]

Sal, appreciate you passing your blessing on my test.
I will get some more video up as soon as I sort out what I'm doing wrong. Just to be clear.....I was allowing the weight to gain speed prior to throwing the lever forward. Bit of a difference than doing both simultaneously ....Jeff

I just saw your new videos (from google +)
and looks like a really heavy punishment to the reel, Tom will have test from Labs (yours) and real world.
if this result as a winner I will need at least two more.

[Rivverrat]

see if this works.

https://goo.gl/photos/qhxVFw9L9NhBuRVH8

[Alto Mare]

I see what you're doing now Jeff, you have a valid test.

Since other components are in question, how about setting that reel to 25lbs with a scale.
Do exactly the same process as you did with your test, I love it! but this time keep the reel in gear from start.
Now, find out how much weight is needed for it to drop at a steady slow pace from there.

Once it has dropped, turn the handle to bring it back up halfway and hold it there for a couple of minutes with no pressure on the handle, actually you should move your hand from the handle. You will need to add a little more drag at this point, just enough to keep the weight there.

I believe this won't be as harsh on the reel, But, if you don't have a pulley on top, you will need to find out how much force it takes to get the weight back up while turning the handle, or your gears might suffer damage. 
The weight should be at around 25lbs going  for both up and down

Dave brings a good point, but on this one dealing with 40 yards of line, you should be good with the spool being halfway or full. The numbers do change but not enough to cause any issues.

This tests should be good for checking stress on the dogs, gears and drag washers.


Thanks for doing this Jeff, I know how much work it takes just to show 1 or 2 minutes  on here.

What I've mentioned above is just a suggestion, you are doing a good job on your own, so take it from here.


Sal

[Rivverrat]

Some brief feedback... First I can say for any one wishing to push their Baja / US113  to 20 lbs. & needing 25 lbs. to stop a fish short this reel will now do that repeatedly. It would not before this time.  

I have repeatedly put an amount of stress on this reel that if done just once with a stock reel the anti reverse would have failed most times. We have a reel that produces a glass smooth 15 lbs. of drag & a fishable 20 lbs of drag measured straight off the reel lifting a 20 lb. weight. which of course would be a few pounds more with line strung through the guides of a rod....I've got more I wish to do. However at this point I feel I can say, "This Boat Will Float"  "This Dog Will Hunt".... Based on what I've done & seen, this reel is now meeting its fantastic, claimed specs with the strength & durability that the Penn Senator line has been known for by a lot of you here....Jeff

[steelfish]

cool Jeff,

specially coming from you that have had the Baja AR problems directly, hoping to see a river monster at the other side of your line and the Baja in the other side someday.



my the reel with the upgrade parts is still on the water, will see if I have any news to report in two weeks more.


by the way, I just got another Baja Special that I found on a local yard sale on my way to lunch, I wont tell you how much the guy was asking for the reel, I will just say that he told me it was one of those old penn senator with black side plates, he hate them too dang slow and weak, its kind of beat up but I have the tools to make it look 3x better, ooh and once on production this reel will also have those upgrades by Tom.

[Shark Hunter]

I haven't visited this thread for quite some time.
If Tom is involved, I guess I need to get a Baja Special Now.
Great testing guys. We all do it a little different, that is why it is testing.
I prefer the dead lift. Knowing exactly what you are picking up and letting it drop slowly from a platform.
Great work to all involved here. Especially Jeff.

[Rivverrat]

Wow ! Just Wow!  
After receiving some help from Sal, I am amazed with the results. Further testing is needed. However this reel appears at this point to be doing very well at the upper end of its drag range. Doing this with decent smoothness. If I find myself needing more drag than this reel can now produce I believe a different reel would be more appropriate. The heat generated drag fade at this high drag could become a problem dealing with fish capable of long runs. But for my fishing & for others this is not an issue.

I do wonder if Tom fully realizes what he may have accomplished here? ....Jeff

[steelfish]

Jeff,

talk a bit more of what other test did you made with the help of Sal to be this exited
let us now more please

[Rivverrat]

Alex, after talking with Sal about the drag he suggested I might try a different arrangement of Delrin washers. So far I have replaced the the one under the main gear & I think I have one beneath the single
spring / belleville washer that sits on top the drag stack. The drag is now as smooth cranked down stupid tight as it is at 15 lbs.  At 25 lbs. of drag there appears to be no flexing of the side plate or any where else in this reel.

Alex I have to say, if I need more drag than this I'll look at a VSX or something else. The only reel that I'm aware of, this size, that cast as well or better, with this amount of drag or more is the Avet HX Raptor. But it cost twice as much....Jeff