BX 400N (Jigging Special) Squeaking and Stuttering Drag

Started by mahfudzmn, May 12, 2016, 04:20:05 PM

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Tiddlerbasher

Accurate are claiming 30lb of drag for the BX400N :-\

Robert Janssen

#16
Yes, I was wondering that as well.

But since when would Accurate start making the whole unit out of one piece of titanium, and then bothering to anodize it? (not same process as anodizing aluminum) And fwiw it does just fine without anodizing too. Odd.

(The anodized surface of aluminum is also very hard and allows excellent thermal conduction; maybe thats what they were thinking. I still have some of the components from old drag testing days. I tried it yesterday; just gave it a manual, how-does-this-feel try. No squealing, but with a noticeable startup stick-slip tug. Maybe I will look into it further. But if they decided to run with this using grease as a cure-all, I would be surprised. But hey, good for them, right?)

This unit in the pics differs from schematics, too. Maybe they just decided to change things.

Peculiar.

.


Tiddlerbasher

I did experiment with an aluminium drag plate for my line spooler drag system - because it was easier to cut and drill.
There was start up inertia but I don't remember any 'stuttering'. It did score quite badly under even light load. My view was aluminium is not fit for purpose. If the reel is maxing out at 8kg of drag, there is definitely something wrong :-\

Robert Janssen

And what is this? Looks like a second groove for another snap ring. Could be used for holding a disc, for example.

Tiddlerbasher

Well spotted Robert. The schematic is only showing 1 snap ring, a drag cap retainer. It refers to a drag cap on top of a titanium drag washer. Hopefully the OP will get back to us with the results of a comparison of both ends of the drag setup. Have Accurate missed a process? Or has someone else stripped the reel and failed to replace the titanium drag washer :-\

Tiddlerbasher

Just found the attached photo. It suggests that the titanium drag washer is the same size as the cf. Suggesting it is missing. Back to the factory under warranty me thinks.

day0ne

That reel is put together by Anglers Outfitters in Singapore. That doesn't look like the drag plate in my Accurates.  Maybe they are making changes like the Australian distributor does. Just a thought.
David


"Lately it occurs to me: What a long, strange trip it's been." - R. Hunter

alantani

#22
never seen this before, but i wonder if water has been "emulsified" into the teflon grease.  ok, here's what i know....



drags work perfectly at any pressure - when you have greased carbon fiber and both surfaces (the pressure plate and the carbon fiber) are perfectly trued up and are greased with no water intrusion.

drags stick and high and low pressures - when there is extensive corrosion and salt deposition, even if the drags are greased.

drags stick at low pressures but less so at high pressures - when there is a high spot in the grease carbon fiber.  the high spot comes from, say, a pea-sized spot of corrosion in the aluminum, right under the carbon fiber.  

drags are smooth at low pressure but sticky at high - never seen this before with greased carbon fiber.  i think that one possibility was that water is incorporated into the drag grease.  in pharmacy school, we learned how to make "water in oil" emulsions, as well as "oil in water" emulsions.  it's possible that you might have a "water in oil" emulsion

to check this theory, you would toss the drag washers into a toaster oven at 150 to 200 degrees fahrenheit for a half hour to cook out all the water, then reinstall the drag washers and see.  

how's that for a wild guess?   ;D
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

swill88

Quote from: alantani on May 26, 2016, 12:23:12 AM
never seen this before, but i wonder if water has been "emulsified" into the teflon grease.  ok, here's what i know....



drags work perfectly at any pressure - when you have greased carbon fiber and both surfaces (the pressure plate and the carbon fiber) are perfectly trued up and are greased with no water intrusion.

drags stick and high and low pressures - when there is extensive corrosion and salt deposition, even if the drags are greased.

drags stick at low pressures but less so at high pressures - when there is a high spot in the grease carbon fiber.  the high spot comes from, say, a pea-sized spot of corrosion in the aluminum, right under the carbon fiber.  

drags are smooth at low pressure but sticky at high - never seen this before with greased carbon fiber.  i think that one possibility was that water is incorporated into the drag grease.  in pharmacy school, we learned how to make "water in oil" emulsions, as well as "oil in water" emulsions.  it's possible that you might have a "water in oil" emulsion

to check this theory, you would toss the drag washers into a toaster oven at 150 to 200 degrees fahrenheit for a half hour to cook out all the water, then reinstall the drag washers and see.  

how's that for a wild guess?   ;D

sounds sound to me dr. tani!

mahfudzmn

I did degreased and regreased both washers but didn't go for the toasting. It makes perfect sense! Water could do that, I think I just refused to think about it at that time because it's not a cheapo. However Alan, if the drag surface is decreased by so much, would it start diminishing in terms of smoothness?

I emailed Accurate and got a reply from Accurate Malaysia Distributor is asking for the reel to be sent back. So maybe I'll just wait for the findings after my client send the reel in. Will keep you guys posted :)

Robert Janssen


mahfudzmn

Quote from: Robert Janssen on June 01, 2016, 11:25:57 PM

Did you email them a picture?


I didn't as I queried directly at the Accurate website and instead I referred them to this post. My client has yet to send his reel in so I'm still waiting for an answer. FYI these are the new reels supposedly designed or modified by Anglers Outfitters Singapore as the RnD rep for South East Asia market.

I've also got 2 clients asking about the Valiant 300 having dissapointly little drag but I'm yet to attend to any of the clients' reel. Would be interesting when I get the clients' reels somewhere in July

mahfudzmn

Bit of an update

So I had a chance to open up a BX600N AOF Jigging Special. I tested the drag prior and they worked fantastic unlike the smaller model BX400N which I posted previously. I think I know why and it kinda confirms my suspicion that the effective drag surface in the BX400N is a lot smaller than what it should be. The BX600N seems to have adequate drag plate surface which is why it didn't have the squeaking and stutters.

But that's what I thought and I'm no pro with reel designs so let me just share the photos from the two reels and you may build your own thoughts around them.


BX400N drag assembly which I've shared earlier



The BX600N in which I think have much better effective drag plate surface


I'm not bringing up anything about how much the drag power is not really related to the surface area etc. Rather I'm interested in knowing if having too small a drag surface would sacrifice smoothness

There's also another reel that's showing up a lot in Malaysian used market which is the Accurate Valiant 300, a few clients have told me about drag problems which I think could be related to this BX series. I don't know for sure, I haven't had a Valiant show up to my shop yet :)

Robert Janssen

#28
Funny, I was thinking of this just yesterday while I was fiddling with my own Accurate.

I am still wondering what happened to the titanium drag washer. You mean none of these BX-x00 AOF reels have real drag washers?? What about on the other side of the spool?

And what did Accurate say when you asked them?

.

mahfudzmn

Robert, I assume you're referring to the drag plate? Tbh I've no idea to tell if the material was titanium or aluminum, I've seen titanium plates from Blue Heaven reels before, I think the ones in these Accurate I saw are made of anodized aluminum, I don't know for sure.

Btw, the BX400 is the first I took apart, this BX600 is only the 2nd Accurate I've seen, so I must say I'm not well versed with accurate reels