REEL RAVE (edit from alan - read this before you buy a high end spinner!)

Started by Toonafish, August 11, 2016, 05:34:12 PM

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swill88

Quote from: alantani on August 13, 2016, 05:28:16 AM
i just spend the last two hours ironing shirts.  trust me, i have plenty to do!   ;D

why does a retired guy need his shirts ironed?

alantani

because i had to wash them because they had been sitting in the closet so long that they had a layer of dust on them and had to be washed.  now, back to spinners. ugghhhhh!!!!   ;D
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

MFB

I prefer to pair mid range reels with top end rods...

Regards

Mark
No man can lose what he never had.
                                                   Isaac Walton

mley1

It is sometimes frustrating for me to WANT to try a new fangled reel, spinner or otherwise, and know that spending upwards of a thousand dollars would get me shot, stabbed, and burned, by the wife ;D. While I can afford it, the pleasure for me is in the hunt for the bargains, the diamonds in the rough. I like buying gear at bargain prices, and using the heck out of it, without fear that it will break or become obsolete. And, if I can work on it to fix it up or make it better that's great. I guess that's one reason I've always like Abu bait casters, older Penn spinners, and Penn conventional reels. I've only recently gotten into some newer gear, mainly Daiwa. I certainly didn't run out and pay new retail prices for any of it though. I hunted for the bargains, and found some good deals. I really enjoy that. My rule of thumb on buying gear is that it must cost less than a nice outfit that I buy my wife. Then, when she asks(and she will), about what I spent on a rig I can say "honey, this rig here cost way less than that last outfit I got you", and she'll smile and say OK, LOVE YOU HONEY.  ;D And, all will be well in the world.  ;)

I agree with all that's been said above though. The days of companies building quality products that last is pretty much a thing of the past. There are few, the ones mentioned above, that still operate to build quality that lasts. It's all about money, the bottom line, and how to get the customer to buy multiple times. They won't tell you this when you're buying an item, but they want you to come back and buy MORE. At a 1000 dollars a pop, they can keep them high dollar reels. That is, unless I can find one at bargain basement prices!!! ;D
Good luck fishing,

Marty

Elgreco

This thread makes no sense. Dont like a reel? Dont buy it then. Simple as that.

Tile

In the past I was brand fanatic until I found out that the high end spinners had the gear train made from what essentially is pot metal. I chose to change my way of thinking and embraced multipliers. Even in a cheap multiplier one will find the geartrain made from either brass, bronze, stainless steel or a combination of the two. Fortunately with a bit of wisdom one can find an excellent spinner that will do the job and last for 10 years when used and maintained correctly before needing parts replaced.
In solid fiberglass we trust

Elgreco

What high end spinners use pot metal gears? Shimanos from $200 and up use brass pinions with cold forged aluminum main gears. They even have a couple $100 reels with the same setup. Higher end daiwas use bronze pinions with CNC cut 7075 aluminum main gears. The saltiga uses bronze pinion with CNC cut bronze main gear. The Penn slammer and torque use bronze main and pinion. The okuma metaloid and makaira use stainless steel main and pinion.

Tile

In solid fiberglass we trust

Elgreco

Nowadays there are 2 US versions of the Ultegra. Neither are high end reels. The cheaper one has pot metal gear, better one has forged main gear.

oc1

The Spinfisher 700 and 700Z series (from large to small) have been around for fifty years, are robust, you can still find parts if you need them and you can buy them cheap at auction.  I'm not big on spinners, but others have come and gone while the Spinfishers keep on ticking.
-steve

Gfish

Quote from: alantani on August 12, 2016, 05:31:07 PM
people ask me constantly about recommendations for spinners.  yeah, yeah, yeah, i'm not the spinner guy.  but my recommendation?  spend $20 to get a daiwa sweepfire or sure fire.  okuma also has a $20 spinner.  they all work fine out of the box.  when they fail, throw them away and buy a new one!  want a tank that will last for more than one season?  old school penn spinners.  need more than 5 pounds of drag?  go conventional......  :-\


Sounds logical Allen, except I can't line my thinking up with the "throw them away" part. Probably just me. It does seem like it would encourage the " manufacture cheap throw away crap and they'll buy more" business model. Not too bad, if people'd recycle whenever they can. Perhaps the "art" in this case is in the business model. I see lotsa people at the big Mart(W&K) stores an' out fishin', that can probably afford only this type a stuff, been there myself.
One thing I love about this site is all the info. On buying old school quality, rehabing, tweaking and having access to great after market upgrade products. Also, fisherpeoples real world opinions on new stuff they'er using.
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

mley1

Quote from: Elgreco on September 09, 2016, 07:02:26 PM
This thread makes no sense. Dont like a reel? Dont buy it then. Simple as that.

I don't think this thread is about liking, or not liking a reel. Rather, it's about buying an expensive reel and then a few years later the new model comes out and the manufacturer quits making parts for your very expensive reel. And, as we all know, eventually EVERY reel may need a spare part for servicing or repair. And, when you can't find any parts for your very expensive reel you'll then have a very expensive sinker, or small anchor, or a pretty paper weight.

I don't think there isn't a fisherman anywhere that doesn't enjoy using good gear. You know, the gear that's smooth, powerful, pretty, and just fun to use. We all enjoy great gear. I think the main issue is this expensive gear, that is really good, and enjoyable to use, is not supported long term by manufacturers. New models come out, and the ones you bought just a few years prior are no longer supported with parts or service. The manufacturers fully expect us to buy ANOTHER very expensive high tech reel, which they'll replace with another newer and BETTER model a few years down the road.

So, my main question about this expensive gear is how cost effective is it to buy these 1000 dollar reels? You know, I can see making an investment in a good reel if the reel will last a long time, and parts and service is available for the life of the reel. A lot of us, at least in my case, I look at gear as an investment. It's an investment in the tools that I use to enjoy my spare time, an investment in the tools I use to keep my sanity from leaving me after a long week at work. So, I want to get the most for my money. I want my gear to be good, last a long time, and give me the most for my money. I look at my work gear the same way. A lot of folks at work(I'm a corrections officer) think I'm nuts for spending over 300 dollars for a pair of work boots. But, the way I look at is that the boots I buy will usually last me at least 3 years, sometimes four. So, instead of spending 150 dollars on a pair of boots that only lasts for one year, and would cost me 450 over the course of 3 years, I spend 300 up front and enjoy some exceptional boots for those same 3 years.

If these expensive reels were lasting, and being supported as long as say the Penn 704Z's or the Daiwa BG's, they would make a lot more sense to buy. As it is now, for a lot of folks they're not very cost effective. However, for folks who don't mind that, and enjoy using fine gear, the manufacturers enjoy and will continue selling them the expensive reels. That's the great thing about a free economy, demand will create a supply, and there will be plenty of variety for everyone to buy whatever it is they enjoy using.

And, one of these days I'm gonna run across a Stella, or Saltiga, in a pawn shop or resale shop and snatch that bad boy up for a song.(I just hope it's not an old one that I can't get parts for! ;D)
Good luck fishing,

Marty

Porthos

I approach this in a manner that is illustrated by the difference between a scientist and an engineer: the former works with the "absolute" whereas the latter works with  the "good enough." To get to "absolute" will probably take the best equipment available but is something that only the FEW will replicate once proven given the cost and resource commitment involved. To get to "good enough" means applying the knowledge from the "absolute"  but is repeatable and practical for MANY to do get to a desirable result.

The gains from a high end spinner will NOT follow a linear progression. As in many things in LIFE, the law of diminishing returns applies. There is no comparison of a $20 to a $1000 spinner, but are the differences so great with a $200, $300, or $700 reel to a $1000 one? I'd say "NO." If one is in the habit of frequently targeting cow tuna with a spinner, the $1000+ reels may make sense. From a utility stand point, IMHO, most anglers will not be in that position. Hence, I have followed the path of "good enough" in my fishing equipment. The 10 setups I've taken on the last three SOA charters are under $2000 total. Just a few of Alan's loaner setups easy broke that $2000 threshold. I caught and landed fish without ever thinking "GEE! I really wanted to use a $1000+ setup for that fish I just landed."

If one is in the position of being able to always get the best, then more power to that individual. For those of us not in that position, we'll do well enough with less expensive gear. I find this situation also has parallels to the part of the movie "A Beautiful Mind" where Russell Crowe's character works out that by having the guys go after the beautiful blonde's friends increases the chances of ALL the guys "hooking up" rather than having every guy trying to win over the blonde herself and getting nowhere.

mley1

Quote from: Porthos on September 11, 2016, 08:48:51 PM

If one is in the position of being able to always get the best, then more power to that individual. For those of us not in that position, we'll do well enough with less expensive gear.


Here I think we have to define "BEST". Best at what? Casting? Higher drag? Smoother operation? Large capacity spool? Ease of service? Waterproof? Aluminum? Graphite? Light weight? Heavy weight? Fast retrieve? Slow retrieve? Low price for features? High price for features? Best for a given type of fishing? Lasting a long time?

Best is a relative term, and subjective. Best to me, may not be best to you or some other fishermen. In my mind high cost doesn't equal "best". I think an argument could be made that high cost could mean overpriced. To me, I look for "value" for my money. I want the "most" for my hard earned cash. If I buy a 1000 dollar reel, and a new model comes out a year later and the company stops servicing my reel, then the reel breaks and I can't get it fixed, the value for my money is not very good. However, if I buy a 100-200 dollar reel and it lasts ten years with regular service and I can get parts for it if anything breaks the value for my dollar is much greater. And, if that 100-200 dollar reel satisfactorily performs the same functions I would have asked the 1000 dollar reel to perform then really, which one was "BEST".
Good luck fishing,

Marty

Keta

Quote from: Elgreco on September 09, 2016, 10:25:02 PM
What high end spinners use pot metal gears? Shimanos from $200 and up use brass pinions with cold forged aluminum main gears.

Aluminum does not make good gears and can be considered as "pot metal" in this case.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain