alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Daiwa BG Saltwater 2016: Service Tutorial and First Look
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
December 11, 2017, 04:35:14 PM *
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Author Topic: Daiwa BG Saltwater 2016: Service Tutorial and First Look  (Read 19883 times)
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glos
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« Reply #90 on: August 21, 2017, 07:14:55 AM »

now the saltist had same faith as bg
got broken, on yt channel
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ez2cdave
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« Reply #91 on: August 21, 2017, 12:32:04 PM »

now the saltist had same faith as bg
got broken, on yt channel

We need to get you an Australian ALVEY reel . . . LOL !

Tight Lines !
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glos
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« Reply #92 on: August 21, 2017, 11:36:02 PM »

now the saltist had same faith as bg
got broken, on yt channel

We need to get you an Australian ALVEY reel . . . LOL !

Tight Lines !
I would never fish that type of reels.
And I actually think, and more even, am sure that daiwa bg sw is solid reel, saltist not worth the extra money but equally good ( minus the magseal, which makes it worse )
and that Joe isn`t telling it all
he, I am sure, dunks those reels in salt water, and waits for rust to start working, just so he can make videos and praise spheros all the time
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 04:17:44 AM by glos » Logged

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glos
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« Reply #93 on: October 18, 2017, 12:50:23 AM »

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* (15 October 2017) Daiwa apparently understood that low grade gearing with vague"Digigear xx" logos won't cut it anymore for the informed anglers. A new range of mid priced reels is coming, where they specifically state that the gear is "machined A7075 aluminium for durability". I'll be examining the ones without a mag-seal first in the near future. Thank you, smelly fishos, for responding to factual reviews and voting with your wallets. You made this happen.
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ez2cdave
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« Reply #94 on: October 18, 2017, 06:09:05 AM »

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* (15 October 2017) Daiwa apparently understood that low grade gearing with vague"Digigear xx" logos won't cut it anymore for the informed anglers. A new range of mid priced reels is coming, where they specifically state that the gear is "machined A7075 aluminium for durability". I'll be examining the ones without a mag-seal first in the near future. Thank you, smelly fishos, for responding to factual reviews and voting with your wallets. You made this happen.

glos,

That quote was from Alan Hawk, right ?

http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/news.html

Tight lines !
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glos
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« Reply #95 on: October 25, 2017, 08:43:18 PM »

yep, this one is, too

"UPDATE: Since I've written this review, Daiwa has introduced a JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) version of this reel, which has a downgraded construction. I will add details into the review later, but for now keep on mind that this review only covers the Export version and stay away from the JDM version"
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glos
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« Reply #96 on: November 07, 2017, 05:33:06 AM »

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Cast Zinc-Aluminum is by far soft, brittle, and sacrificial.  To make it work, you need a stiff frame and the gear should be large in diameter with thick teeth which lowers the loads in the teeth and things will last longer.  Of course, you shouldn't use a spinner like a winch, but most of us do crank harder than we should on them.  Frames and shafts can flex, and when they do, the loads on the gear teeth skyrocket and all bets are off.  But, one thing that I've run into is that the IAR fails when they get wet, and once that happens the full load goes onto the zinc gear and it's toast.  It may work for a few outings but that's about it.  Many older designs that use cast zinc gears didn't have IAR's and the gear teeth are protected from loading by passing that onto the dog and ratchet and the frames are big and heavy.  You don't notice the damage there as there is tons of play in that system.

 

Cast materials are full of porosity (little holes) which are really just little cracks and zinc has very low strength and is soft (can be rolled over).  Billet material or forged materials (hot worked or cold worked) are far superior.  Heat treating makes a big difference as well, in strength, fatigue, and hardness of the material.

 

The old reels (i.e. 704's) really have brass gears, not bronze.  I think some old marketing stuff said bronze.  But there is no doubt that the metallurgy has changed over the years.  I have a 704 from '69 and the main gear is silver.  It is probably a left over from the 700 and may be aluminum.  If not it is a very different type of brass, perhaps with higher nickel content. 

 

It's always considered good practice to use two different materials in gear sets as galling and fretting occurs when the same metals are used.  Due to heat and friction small little 'miro-welding' occurs between the teeth and this makes them rough and acts like little cracks leading to failure.  So having one of stainless and the other of brass works well, no galling or fretting will occur.  The one exception to this rule, is that steel on steel tends not to gall either (i.e. a VS gear set) as long as it is lubricated.  The steel and brass (or even better bronze) gears will be smoother as the brass wears ever so slightly into the steel.  This is why it is good practice to mark gears so that you install them back in the same orientation that they came out in.  Used to do this with car engines.  Keep the rocker, push rod, and lifter all matched together and put back in the same location.  The teeth have been matched on one-to-one reels through wear. 

 

A 704 is a well designed system.  All the materials and loads that the reel can see are matched.  You can lock the drag down and all still works. 

New reels often have ridiculous drag settings that will result in frame flexing and shaft distortions.  They match these with zinc gears, that's just crazy.  Sure you shouldn't be using that much drag and all would be fine, but then why put it there?  Marketing.  But that's like buying a Dodge Charger with 500 hp, only if you step on it you blow the rear end.  Nope, they beef up the other parts so that the system works together.

 

So, can you make a zinc gear work?  Absolutely, but the cost saving in the gear is offset.  To handle the same loads as a better material, the gear must get larger which means the housing must get larger to fit it.  If the housing gets larger, the walls have to get thicker....and so on and so on. This all increases the cost of the rest of the system and also add weight to the system making it unmarketable.  I think that what you typically see is that a zinc gear is thrown in to cut the cost on a design after the fact and that most designs would work fine if they didn't have the zinc gears.   And this is what happens when bean counters run the business.
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Er31400
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« Reply #97 on: November 22, 2017, 07:49:20 AM »


Hello all. Longtime stalker, first time poster.

I recently picked up a BG4000 and was wondering if anyone has advice with pics or a link to a video explaining how to convert the bail from automatic to manual.  Iíve never owned or taken apart a Daiwa Spiniing reel and donít want any surprises or lost micro-parts.

Thanks!
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johndtuttle
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« Reply #98 on: November 22, 2017, 09:24:36 AM »


Hello all. Longtime stalker, first time poster.

I recently picked up a BG4000 and was wondering if anyone has advice with pics or a link to a video explaining how to convert the bail from automatic to manual.  Iíve never owned or taken apart a Daiwa Spiniing reel and donít want any surprises or lost micro-parts.

Thanks!

Taking a look at the schematic:

http://www.daiwa.com/us/service/manuals/image/spinning/BG1500_2000_2500_3000_3500_4000.pdf

Removing any of the bail trip parts (19-22) or the Bail Trip Lever (17) will do the trick. The interesting part is that the rotor is balanced for these parts, so generally removing the fewest or lightest that do the job of disabling it is best.

I haven't seen one of the smaller ones, the larger are manual bail only from the factory.
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Er31400
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« Reply #99 on: November 27, 2017, 03:34:41 PM »

Thank you!!!!
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ez2cdave
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« Reply #100 on: November 28, 2017, 04:39:04 PM »


Hello all. Longtime stalker, first time poster.

I recently picked up a BG4000 and was wondering if anyone has advice with pics or a link to a video explaining how to convert the bail from automatic to manual.  Iíve never owned or taken apart a Daiwa Spiniing reel and donít want any surprises or lost micro-parts.

Thanks!

Taking a look at the schematic:

http://www.daiwa.com/us/service/manuals/image/spinning/BG1500_2000_2500_3000_3500_4000.pdf

Removing any of the bail trip parts (19-22) or the Bail Trip Lever (17) will do the trick. The interesting part is that the rotor is balanced for these parts, so generally removing the fewest or lightest that do the job of disabling it is best.

I haven't seen one of the smaller ones, the larger are manual bail only from the factory.

John,

I just looked at the schematic. In my opinion, removing (17) is the best bet ( Actually, 16, 17, & 18  ).

To me, it looks like the Bail would just "flop around", without the Bail Spring (21) in place, along with its mounting hardware ( 19, 20, & 22 ).

Thoughts ?

Tight Lines !
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exp2000
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« Reply #101 on: November 29, 2017, 01:54:49 PM »

Hi John,

Thanks for your review on the BG.

I notice from your pictorial that Daiwa seem to have scalloped out any protruding obstruction on the pinion support pillar.

I am hoping that this would allow you to extract the maingear assembly without impediment.

I am sometimes at a loss for words when I see big reel corporations with decades of engineering experience commit monumental design blunders and this was one of Daiwas worst!  

I am hopeful that the new Saltist will prove to be a winner but I cannot help but be wary when I see reports of early failure after seeing so many fractured maingears in the previous model as seen in the following pic.
~


* Scalloped Support Pillar .jpg (69.2 KB, 367x299 - viewed 100 times.)

* Pillar Obstructs MG Extraction .JPG (1073.61 KB, 3122x1925 - viewed 10 times.)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 01:57:17 PM by exp2000 » Logged
johndtuttle
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« Reply #102 on: November 29, 2017, 03:04:21 PM »

^^^ Yea, this is why I really trust this service community for an ultimate appraisal of a reel over time. You guys see far more reels than any reviewer and find all the faults.

Unfortunately, the Main Shaft still has to be removed to remove the Main Gear as the Idle Gear still doesn't have enough clearance to get by it plus you have to play with the AR wire positioning at the same time.

One of those "tricks" that I am sure vex the assembly techs when the reel is first fit together and clearly not intended for regular service.
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exp2000
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« Reply #103 on: November 29, 2017, 05:04:55 PM »

Unfortunately, the Main Shaft still has to be removed to remove the Main Gear as the Idle Gear still doesn't have enough clearance to get by it......

Understood. I would assume that is a given.

To bottom line it, what I am asking is whether ....

1. you have to first remove the RH sideplate bearing before you can extract the maingear or

2. you can extract the maingear with the sideplate bearing still in place?
~
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 05:05:47 PM by exp2000 » Logged
johndtuttle
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« Reply #104 on: November 29, 2017, 06:52:08 PM »

I don't have the reel nearby to look at atm, but I want to say yes....

lol.

But the answer is no. To remove the main shaft the bearing has to come out so you can tip the main gear enough to get it out. The main shaft can't be removed from the crosswind block from the top (its pressed on) and has to slide out the back. The bearing has to come out to make enough room to clear the back of the reel.

Fortunately, the bearing is far easier to remove than it was in the old Saltist (nightmare).
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