Need advice on wiring

Started by David Hall, November 22, 2016, 07:50:58 PM

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David Hall

Here's my dilemon,  I just replaced all my boats batteries, after testing them I discovered all three had a dead cell.  They are all 6 years old so I don't think I'm jumping the gun by replacing them now.
I installed everything the same way the old batteries came out, one starter and two house, I need to say that for several years  I have had suspicions that something is amiss in the way the batteries are set up.  Currently they all tie together house and start.  It doesn't matter what position I put the perko switch I get power to my breaker panel.  I also have an inverter/ charger installed to run 110v cabin equipment, tv, DVD, stereo, microwave.  I believe the entire system was factory installed in 2005 and no alterations have been made to it.
   it seems wrong, however I have never had any failures, I have experienced fluctuations that disturb my electronics.  I am mostly ignorant of how this system should be set up to function correctly.  I have some talented electrician friends I can call upon to assist me and I ordered a book on boat wiring basics. I plan to start by first disconnecting all wiring at my batteries and tracing each of them from line to load and labeling them. 
Anyone have any system recommendations or direction on how I need to proceed to tackle this.
Thanks and happy thanksgiving.

Bryan Young

I personally would at least separate my starter from house power through a load isolator (I think that is what they call it) so if you loose power to the house, you can always restart.  The motors should charge all 3 batteries.

I really don't have anything to say or add, can you tell?
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

josa1

I never had the opportunity to own a boat, gave that up long ago.  However, I was an HVAC guy who worked on very complex control circuits and equipment for a very long time.

I always thought that the best way to determine if everything was staging properly was to understand what happened when things were working correctly, or as designed.  Then, if I had a question about some particular component, as you do, I would first thoroughly study the wiring and control sequence until I understood what was supposed to happen/when as you select different options.

If it is difficult for you to determine the above I would suggest professional help.  I don't believe that you want to get off shore some where and find out that you did your repair incorrectly.  :o

josa1


David Hall

BRyan:  I agree!

Jose:  that's the same line of thinking I'm on.  I'm going to start with tracing and labelling every wire in the system until I understand exactly how the system is set up with the batteries, inverter, and ignition.  And consult with professionals along the way.  You're absolutely right, there's no pit stops out there and dead in the water is nowhere I care to be.

Ron Jones

So,
I work with electricity on ships every day. Both AC and DC. I have also worked with consumer grade lead acid battery powered systems for almost 40 years. I can tell you that your system is not working correctly, but it will take some work to figure out what is wrong.

I recommend you disconnect the starting battery and place the perko switch to the side that should select the starter battery and then see if your starting circuit gets power (bump the starter.) If it does, then we can start looking at the switch. If it doesn't, then you are getting power from the start side to the panel from somewhere else. I'm guessing it is the inverter, but I don't want to get ahead of ourselves.

Others may have other ideas, but I prefer the Navy 7 step troubleshooting method. We know the problem and now need to half split the system in order to reduce the size of the problem.

Ron
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"

David Hall

Thank you Ron, I'll start with that. I Actually did it already but want to check it again to confirm.  If I am not mistaken, when isolated from the house batteries and perko switch in position 1 (start) i am still getting power to my circuit panel.  But like I said I want to recheck this to make certain.
I have a long list of Honey dos but if I'm up early I can make the 2hr round trip to the Harbor try it out and get back before the boss rises.
I may overload your personal messages!

Ron Jones

I'm here to help.
Relax, we'll sort this out. If I can't figure it out my best friend is a no crap nuclear trained naval electrician who also happens to be a genius. And we hang out with a Yale educated nuclear engineer that ran the nuclear repair engineering office at the Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard for more years than anyone else.

You'll be on the water in no time.
Ron
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"

David Hall

Quote from: noyb72 on November 26, 2016, 07:54:38 AM
I'm here to help.
Relax, we'll sort this out. If I can't figure it out my best friend is a no crap nuclear trained naval electrician who also happens to be a genius. And we hang out with a Yale educated nuclear engineer that ran the nuclear repair engineering office at the Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard for more years than anyone else.

You'll be on the water in no time.
Ron

I'm going to go ahead and just say Wow!  I can't thank you enough.  It will be Monday before I get down there.
I'm following Alan and Ben in 10 days heading to Puerto Vallarta to fish with the Osuna brothers for cow tuna.  And the boss won't let me go until her honey do list is cleared.  This project will drag on a bit.

Ron Jones

I'm in no hurry. The submarine I work on may have different plans.
Ron
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"

Bill B

I Stayed at a Holiday Inn Express Last Night......does that count  ::) ::)   Bill
It may not be very productive,
but it's sure going to be interesting!

Tightlines667

#10
Quote from: Bryan Young on November 22, 2016, 08:01:43 PM
I personally would at least separate my starter from house power through a load isolator (I think that is what they call it) so if you loose power to the house, you can always restart.  The motors should charge all 3 batteries.

I really don't have anything to say or add, can you tell?

X2

When I set up my electrical (rewired the boat from scratch), I set it up to have a starter battery which never energizes the panels directly, a house battery dedicated to powering the panels seperated by a switch, and a third back-up battery that is not connected to the panel or the engine.  I rigged a 3 bank battery charger/monitor to all 3 to keep them charged at the dock, and just installed a 3 bank voltage regularor that ensures the engine will charge all three, but isolates them when they are in a draw state (due to any cause such as failure of charger, alternatir, excessive loads etc..).  Though I am not sure if a certain type of failure if the voltage regulator might cause them all to discharge?  Actually my back up should never discharge.  

This way I will switch to engine bat before startup, then switch through both to house bat while engine is running, or anytime other then starting (also runs my bildge pumps).

I also wired in a voltimeter, and an ampmeter.  Shunts isloate the batteries from the engine and panel.  All loads run off of dedicated fuses/switches, and sensative electronics get smaller in-line fuses.  Charger cables have seperate in line fuses as well.

This seems safe, user friendly, and I shouod he able to troubleshoot problems.

John
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.