Tester Needed: 113H insert drag kit

Started by Three se7ens, December 24, 2016, 05:10:15 AM

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Three se7ens

Quote from: Dominick on December 29, 2016, 11:15:45 PM
Let me throw out something.  How about coating the sheet with fiberglass epoxy?  The stuff used to coat fiberglass cloth when making fiberglass repairs.  Dominick

Epoxy is only one of 3 main types of resin used in building boats.  Polyester is the most common, and vinyl ester and epoxy are typically only seen on higher end hulls.  None of which are any good above 200 degrees, except a small number of specialized and very expensive epoxies.  I keep one such epoxy for molding carbon fiber parts, and it is stable to around 300 degrees.  But even that gets very soft by 200 degrees.  Above 300 degrees, the mechanical properties permanently degrade.  Further, composites layed up with any resin in a boat building or molding manner make very poor drag washers. 

All that aside, the layered carbon fiber washers, such as Penn's HT100, carbontex, etc all suffer the same temperature limitation because of the molded fiberglass core and adhesive used to bond the carbon fiber outer layers.  I want to eliminate those entirely, and have a homogeneous meterial that can handle the extreme conditions these tweaked reels put their drags through.   

sdlehr

#31
I've been following this thread with interest. I think the failure was because there was nothing left to hold things together after the high-temperature treatment destroyed the structural integrity of the epoxy, or whatever was holding the carbon fibers together. They may do great with friction and have great tensile strength and a favorable modulus of elasticity, but no inherent structural strength other than that, and once the ears started to fray and flex the whole thing went to hell in a handbasket.

Also, ceramics are inherently temperature-stable; they were what the heat tiles on the shuttle were made of to stand up to the high temperatures of re-entry. Has anyone ever considered trying a ceramic as a drag material? Like a thin ceramic wafer with a rough surface? Just thinking out loud here.

I have a friend that has been a NASA chemist for 30 years and has developed a lot of the high-temperature composites used on the Space Shuttle. I will ask him to give an opinion; he's technically a "materials scientist" with a PhD in Organic Chemistry. Stay tuned. I'll see if I can get him on the phone tomorrow.

Sid
Sid Lehr
Veterinarian, fishing enthusiast, custom rod builder, reel collector

Three se7ens

Quote from: sdlehr on December 30, 2016, 03:45:21 AM
I've been following this thread with interest. I think the failure was because there was nothing left to hold things together after the high-temperature treatment destroyed the structural integrity of the epoxy, or whatever was holding the carbon fibers together. They may do great with friction and have great tensile strength and a favorable modulus of elasticity, but no inherent structural strength other than that, and once the ears started to fray and flex the whole thing went to hell in a handbasket.

Also, ceramics are inherently temperature-stable; they were what the heat tiles on the shuttle were made of to stand up to the high temperatures of re-entry. Has anyone ever considered trying a ceramic as a drag material? Like a thin ceramic wafer with a rough surface? Just thinking out loud here.

I have a friend that has been a NASA chemist for 30 years and has developed a lot of the high-temperature composites used on the Space Shuttle. I will ask him to give an opinion; he's technically a "materials scientist" with a PhD in Organic Chemistry. Stay tuned. I'll see if I can get him on the phone tomorrow.

Sid

I bet your friend will be familiar with the material Im using here.  One of the early applications was the wings of the space shuttle.  You may have misunderstood the resin/epoxy tangent earlier, but there is no epoxy in this material. 

jurelometer

I see several different prepreg carbon fiber sheets that spec out at 500-700F max continous operating temp.  Probably need  pretty exact temp control for proper curing.

It just seems tough to me to rely on a dry fiber weave to hold together when the force on the washer ears and faces are pulling it apart. 

There are woven carbon fiber friction clutches  out there,  so there might be  some way to make this work.  But it might end up requiring bonding the fiber to a backing of some kind. 

On a side note:  Something else to consider is the temp limit of the other components in the neighborhood. For example, I see  stainless ball bearing specs published around 250F.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained...


Alto Mare

I agree with you Dave.
I had the opportunity to test many carbon fiber washers, a lot happens behind the scene that most don't get to see.
All  without some type of reinforcement sandwiched in between to help hold the weaved carbon fiber failed.
I also had some with some type of membrane fail, weather fiberglass or cloth.

I can't see how these fibers would hold together without some type of epoxy on the inside to hold everything in place, but hoping you guys come up with something. :-\

There is lots of force generated on these.

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.