Pflueger Autopla

[Tightlines667]

Thats it.

[oc1]

Let us know how that works out Mike.  It would be interesting to play around with when you get some line on it.

Thank you for the patent info Bryan.  It goes way back.  A more recent example from 1938:



A domed washer on the outside of the head plate puts enough tension on the sliding bridge screw to hold it in place.
-steve

[The Great Maudu]

Really nice reel Steve.

[oc1]

First let me apologize for butting in on your thread Mike.  Should have started a new one.

Anyway.... I have two of these Shakespeare but the trouble is the hard rubber spacers on the side plates.  I'm trying to understand hard rubber as there seems to be several formulations.  On the Shakespeare (and others with similar formulation) it has remained black over time, but has shrunk a little.  On Julius Vom Hofe (and others with similar formulation) the hard rubber turns brown over time, but it does not shrink or swell.  The Shakespeare-type hard rubber is softer and somewhat pliable but does not machine well (it globs up).  The Vom Hofe-type is much harder and machines really well; better than bakelite.  I'm wondering if the one that turns brown has a reinforcing filler material like the wood powder used in bakelite.

On this particular model, when the black hard rubber spacers shrank a little they squeezed the protruding clutch lever and limited it's range.  The gears would not fully engage or disengage.  So, if someone tried to use it after the spacers shrunk they would bugger-up the gears.  One of mine has nearly perfect gears and the other has damaged gears.  I ground and carved out the spacers a bit to accommodate the clutch lever and they work fine now.  With the free spool and aluminum spool flanges they cast exceptionally well for a reel of this period.  This is the one with the buggered gears:

  -steve

[The Great Maudu]

Well Steve to redeem yourself for butting in you can just send me one of those beautiful Shakespeare's 😜 Just kidding of course. Anyway, I can't answer your question so I'll just butt out and let someone with some reel knowledge tackle it.

[Penn Chronology]

Very interesting old reel. Love the Autopla. The one you have is as fine as I have ever seen. Usually they are very used. Here is a page fromn the Ruby book about the Autopla.



And since you guys brought up the Kopf Clutch I had to add this. It is not my reel. It belongs to very learned ORCA member. These are rare and all hand made. It is a Kopf Reel. Not sure of the vintage, probably 19th Century.





To me, this is art!

[Gfish]

Cool! Got the very common P. Model1893 Akron. And several other Shakespears 'n Pfluegers probably all from the 40's-50's. Never seen the koph clutch on the latter ones, did they makin 'em with that ? And why would they stop?
Gfish

[Penn Chronology]

The Kopf clutch became obsolete after WW II. The reason was because complete disengagement of the gears was not the best way to do it. Placing the gears back in mesh while the reel was under load caused grinding, especially if the gears were straight cut. As constantly meshed gear system were perfected, the Iconic Kopf Clutch was done.

The 1933 Penn Sea Ford and the Penn Bay Side used a Kopf system; but, Penn was quick to see its limitations.

[Tightlines667]

Mike,
That reel is beautiful.

[oc1]

I agree.  That's a very elegant reel.

The jack, yoke and sliding pinion is certainly more robust and foolproof.  Also, the better clutch made it feasible to add a drag and the drag made it feasible to add anti-reverse.

Gfish, maybe the Koph clutch was an evolutionary dead end because of the limitations Mike describes and a lot of stripped gears coming in for repair.

You certainly have to be careful that both the spool and main are not moving when the Koph clutch is engaged or disengaged.  One wrong move and permanent damage is done.  I'm still enamored though because it is so simple and compact.  Now I want a Koph-like clutch that simultaneously disengages both the spool and the level wind gear.  Should be possible.  Anybody ever seen such a thing?
-steve

[Gfish]

Kinda like synchro-mesh ona manual auto. trans. causes less wear, perhaps.
Gfish

[The Great Maudu]

If anyone has an Autopla I would like to see it.

[Tightlines667]

I agree.  That's a very elegant reel.

.....

Now I want a Koph-like clutch that simultaneously disengages both the spool and the level wind gear.  Should be possible.  Anybody ever seen such a thing?
-steve

Good question!

I had to go do some research.  I spent a few hours reading posts on early levelwinds on the ORCA site, then reread a good chunk of Steve Vernon's book on early levelwind patents.

I couldn't find anything.  There have been some ingenious designs over the past 160+years.  Many early levelwinds either focused on smoother gears, bearings etc, or freespool mechanisms.  Those levdlwinds capable of disengaging the drive train typically accomplished this by a laterial movement of the pawl, a laterial movement of the main gear, or a laterial movement of the worm gear itself.  Many simply made levelwinds that would 'fall' out of the way during the cast.  Some used more complex designs that rotated one or more gears out of the way, or had one way clutches that would only enage the levelwing pawl when reeling.  The variety of early mechanisms is truely astounding, and teacing the evolution of these mechasism is a fascinating exercise.  The simpliest strongest, most compsct designs gained the greatest favor and ended up becoming the industry standard. 

I like the early Marhoff/Shakespeare levelwind reels, though they may not have really been the best (IMHO). 

I could easily have missed something here.  There were alot of early reels that utilized the Kopf clutch, or later (separately patented) variations therof.  I am pretty sure Steve Vernon could answer this question much better then myself. 

John

[oc1]

Man !!  Thank you very much for that John. 

The basis of the original Marhoff design seems to have stayed the course and can still be seen in new models today.  I guess the big change came with jack/yoke clutch when they had to start putting the level wind gear on the tail plate and driving it off the spool. Then after introducing the disengaging level wind they moved the levelwind gear back to the head plate and drive it off the main gear again. Pre-clutch most of the levelwind knuckle busters have the main gear meshing with the pinion at about 9:00 and simultaneously meshing with the levewind gear at about 2:00.  It would seem easy enough to drop the main gear down and out of the way and free up everything.  Very precarious to use, but not impossible.
-steve

[Tightlines667]

I enlisted some help over on ORCA on this one...

http://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19615

Maybe someone with more knowledge then myself csn provide a better answer here.

John