PR Knot

Started by Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B, January 03, 2017, 02:05:23 PM

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Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B

this is how i'll do my Page Ranking Knot if i'll ever use it;



tight lines!

btw the sub-titles are in brazilian portuguese but am sure just by watching you'll learn how... :)

Brendan

Ive been trying and testing. Not sure the effort justifies the results but im still trying.
Great video.  Brendan.

boon

Quote from: Brendan on November 20, 2017, 02:05:12 AM
Ive been trying and testing. Not sure the effort justifies the results but im still trying.
Great video.  Brendan.

When well-tied the result is a knot that is very close to 100% of line strength. Admittedly a good FG knot is not far behind that and arguably easier to tie, but if you need that strength then these are the only 2 knots to use.

Strewth

That Rizutto finish also works well on the FG, and is a much faster alternative to an alternating series of half hitches.

Tiddlerbasher

I have read a lot about knots over the last 20 years. There are a few I use for fly fishing. I don't need anything strong here - blood knots - uni - surgeons/water knots. The knots are fairly weak but so is the tackle.
I try not to use knots for anything heavy. I splice instead. Hollow braid allows this. Just inspect regularly to make sure everything is ok.
The idea that a knot can be anywhere near 100% I find ridiculous. Most "independent scientific evidence" suggests an average knot strength approaching 50% - 70% probably at best - a generalisation I guess. The whole concept of a knot weakens the line - it creates a stress point how can it approach 100% :-\  Please give me proven evidence that a knot can get any where near 100%  i.e. Lab tests - and not "I pulled it pretty hard and it was good".
I wait to be impressed

boon

#5
Sport Fishing Mag's Reader Knot Challenge, 2017:

https://www.sportfishingmag.com/strongest-fishing-knots-braid-to-leader

Knots tested by the IGFA on the line tester they use for world records.

Only the GT Knot (100%) beat the PR Knot (99.5%) in heavy lines. The GT requires doubling back the mono, and a double in the braid, meaning the weaker point is likely the bimini further up the line (usually breaking at less than 75%)

In light braid, only in the 80's, but first and second place going to PR and FG respectively.

The whole point of knots like these, and the AG Chain for terminal tackle, is spreading the load over many wraps of line, rather than concentrating it at a single point like most knots do.

CapeFish

Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on November 21, 2017, 12:34:35 AM
I have read a lot about knots over the last 20 years. There are a few I use for fly fishing. I don't need anything strong here - blood knots - uni - surgeons/water knots. The knots are fairly weak but so is the tackle.
I try not to use knots for anything heavy. I splice instead. Hollow braid allows this. Just inspect regularly to make sure everything is ok.
The idea that a knot can be anywhere near 100% I find ridiculous. Most "independent scientific evidence" suggests an average knot strength approaching 50% - 70% probably at best - a generalisation I guess. The whole concept of a knot weakens the line - it creates a stress point how can it approach 100% :-\  Please give me proven evidence that a knot can get any where near 100%  i.e. Lab tests - and not "I pulled it pretty hard and it was good".
I wait to be impressed

Here is some pretty comprehensive testing of knots:

http://www.paulusjustfishing.com/4knotreview.htm

Just what I thought, warns about getting a flame near the braid, I don't like that at all and have had an FG knot unravel on the cast resulting in the most spectacular overwind I have ever had.


boon

IMO the knob/bulb should be formed before the braid ever comes into the picture. And the tag end should be whipped into the finish, not burnt off :/

oc1

I thought he was getting the line too hot as well.  If you hold the knot between your fingers with only the mono tag end sticking out when you make the glob, you cannot overheat the line without burning your fingers.  On a FG you can't melt the mono first because you need three inches or so of tag end to make the wraps.
-steve

Tiddlerbasher

Paulus site in Oz used to be my go to reference site. Unfortunately he no longer keeps it updated. One thing he always did was to test the line before testing the knot. It is no good relying upon stated breaking strain - some lines actually break at 50-60% more than stated others break at far less than stated. They also vary from one batch to another. This would make a mockery of claimed knot strength. Paulus also used a very expensive piece of tensile stress machinery which is not available to the majority of people or to fishing line distributors.

I quote from his site:

"It has taken years to get to this point, testing every day, a lot of time on researching and developing braid holding methods, this translates to very accurate breaking strain results, leading to better manufactured braided lines.

The listed test results have been achieved by using certified test equipment and the worlds best practice in braid holding methods.

Should you find you can't equal my test results, it does not mean that my results are wrong, but that you are testing it and holding it incorrectly.

Many of you do not seem to get the message, you cannot test lines yourself, your own results should reflect that fact, and yes it is a bloody hard line."

Tiddlerbasher

I have no time for complex knots. If it's complicated there is a good chance that I'll screw it up. A knot is only as good or bad as the knot tier. A splice goes through the rings easier than anything else. I even use it on my fly fishing lines.