alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Consult about hazardous material "isocyanate" on 2k clear-coat automotive
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Author Topic: Consult about hazardous material "isocyanate" on 2k clear-coat automotive  (Read 1233 times)
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alantani
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« on: January 29, 2017, 02:03:15 PM »

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Hi Alan,

I know you used to work as consultant for poisoning by handling hazardous materials (something like that).

You might noticed already that I'm starting to fix (not build yet) fishing rods locally and most of them need to be painted again.  (These) mostly loaner rods from guys running panga charter services (are) so they are ugly. The proper clear-coat for fishing rods are on the expensive side for most of my friends (me included) so I searched for a 2nd option.  I found out that many rod builders use 2-k urethane automotive clear coat. Locally I can get 1/2 gallon of clear-coat plus hardener for cheap, I mean no more than $7 dollars. The automotive clear coat is made from 2 parts, clear coat base and hardener.  Well, hardener contain isocyanate that I read is really bad for your lungs if you inhale/smell the over spray without a pro mask.  I don't plan to use a spray gun, but to actually paint the clear coat with a brush.   I actually already did one rod like this and came up pretty good.  I didn't use a mask at all since I didn't spray the clear coat, but the odor of the hardener was intense.  I was in a open room with a big door opened and big windows opened so I think it was not that bad, but before doing it again I wanted to ask you next.

its still bad to smell the fumes/odor of the hardener (isocyanate) for the lungs as its when you breath 2k over spray?  (once again I not spraying this thing but painting it with bush and using nitrile gloves all time.)  I think it's not that bad, but is it still bad idea to use this material brushed without a professional mask?  I don't want to risk my health for saving $15 dollars.  I could get the rod building clear coat for my personal rods, but most of my new customers are on the budget and that will affect my cost of labor.  That why I looked for a cheap option, but no at cost of my health.  Also I don't want to spend more on professional painting safety equipment than what I could get for fixing rods with broken guides.

thanks in advance for your help, Alex


hi, alex!  i had to do some online searches to see what was out there in terms of risk info about this stuff.  TDI is a severe irritant in high enough concentrations.  it is also a sensitizer, meaning that the more you are exposed to it, the more sensitive you become.  it's primarily respiratory irritation.  and, yeah, then there is the literally unknown cancer risk. but that is probably a risk that is still many times lower than cigarette smoke. 

i'm retired now, but a collegue is going to email the TDI monograph to me when he gets to work on wednesday and i'll go over it then and let you know.  personally, i would think that these have vapor pressures that are too high to use in a non-industrial setting.  if you still wanted to use it, you'd probably need some pretty serious air flow.  your nose would have to be your guide. 

also, would you mind if i posted your query on the website?  i think it might be helpful to many!

more later.  alan

Quote

Of course you can you post the question on the website.

I Actually found many questions like mine on the web but all of them were when using the 2k two part clear coat with a paint gun. None about brushing it since is not auto leveling like varnish.  I tried Spar urethane like some rod builders used in the old days, but it never got solid.  After 1 week, I could still take it out with my nails.  That's why I wanted to try 2k coat
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Keta
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2017, 02:36:04 PM »

Be careful Alex.
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Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2017, 05:54:46 PM »

I do paint and body Work you need a 3m paint respirator with charcoal filters you can get this at napa,,, paint fumes takes years to kill you"but safety first"
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Keta
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2017, 05:57:16 PM »

I offered Alex a high quality half face respirator I have laying around and all the filters I have.   I prefer my full face.
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In the morning when I wake up I will see what tomorrow will bring.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
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steelfish
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2017, 06:49:24 PM »

Be careful Alex.

I'm always careful amigo, thats why I read a lot before using that stuff but never found anything about brushing 2k clear coat, and remembered Alan have some experience on hazzarous / poisoning materials and wanted his opinion

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droppedit
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 03:32:58 AM »

One of the easier ways to finish a blank with far less fumes is to squeegee the finish. It takes some trial and error to get it right but you are using way less finish and a more even coat. Still, if using what you are for finish, I'd do this in a garage or another area where you are not letting the fumes find others.


Dave





* Blank-Squeegee-Process.gif (21.28 KB, 564x656 - viewed 48 times.)
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steelfish
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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 09:53:12 AM »

thanks Dave,
that looks like a nice idea, I read that some guys use that same method and using thread wraping epoxic because it leaves a really thin coat.

I would have to look for the materials and parts to try it too


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Bill B (Tarfu)
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2017, 08:04:26 PM »

Alex, when I finished my nep-tuna i did something similar but used a spray can poly urethane......just an option....bill
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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2017, 09:11:25 PM »

thanks Dave,
that looks like a nice idea, I read that some guys use that same method and using thread wraping epoxic because it leaves a really thin coat.

I would have to look for the materials and parts to try it too

I've done that with limited success.   Never been able to figure out why it sometimes does not work and leave uncovered patches. (asif there was grease on the blank at spots)

I know K2 is used by many blank manufactures to finish their rods and I find it give a nice durable finish.   I once asked a guy who runs a spray paint shop and also fishes what he thought of K2 for that purpose.    He sounded very knowledgeable and told me its not ideal for that purpose....but Ive no more memory of the reasons Huh?   Does not help much, I know.

I feel a nice clear coat does help to protect the blank a bit against scratches and bumps.
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Cornelis
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2017, 10:23:20 PM »

Alex, when I finished my nep-tuna i did something similar but used a spray can poly urethane......just an option....bill

Amigo, on another rod I used a spray can of Spar urethane, it ended up really good after the 3rod coat but also read that you have to avoid breath the over spray, it actually have a stronger odor than 2k coat but not that hazard as 2k
I just wanted to try 2k, I found out that some guys that offer blanks in many colors put a coat of 2k automotive clear after the paint, it's pretty strong, scratch proof, flexible, UV protection, etc.

@Cor, I read that some guys say it's not the best for coating a blank cuz its breakable, but many say it's really good for that purpose.
I coated 2 light glass blanks (cheap Wally world bass Rods) with 2k, that was 2 months ago and still you can bend those Rods on a "U" form and not a sign of breaking on the clear coat at all, I put two coats on both Rods

Lee is an amazing guy, he sent me a pro mask with new cartigrades.. I can now use it with no worries even when I was trying to use that Stuff the best harmless way (according to some reading )
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Cor
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« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2017, 10:19:32 PM »

Alex, when I finished my nep-tuna i did something similar but used a spray can poly urethane......just an option....bill

.........

@Cor, I read that some guys say it's not the best for coating a blank cuz its breakable, but many say it's really good for that purpose.
I coated 2 light glass blanks (cheap Wally world bass Rods) with 2k, that was 2 months ago and still you can bend those Rods on a "U" form and not a sign of breaking on the clear coat at all, I put two coats on both Rods

Lee is an amazing guy, he sent me a pro mask with new cartigrades.. I can now use it with no worries even when I was trying to use that Stuff the best harmless way (according to some reading )
For many year we only had one blank Manufacturer here and I had an excellent relationship with the guys there.    They used K2 exclusively to finish their rods, and I never saw it crack, peel or in any way show negative wear and tear effects.   Yes over time it got scratched, like all rods would if used on rocks and when dragged around by fish .

I once used 2 part polyurethane varnish  to cover a rod and got excellent results, but the stuff is just too expensive because the one part gets hard quickly, resulting in the whole lot having to be ditched.  You could not buy less then one pint at a time.

I would use K2 based on my experience!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 10:29:54 PM by Cor » Logged

Cornelis
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