yet another reason not to imbibe

Started by oc1, March 12, 2017, 01:09:48 PM

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Tiddlerbasher

For those interested in the magnet thing, Lenz's Law. Alternating N/S/N etc polarity will produce a stronger effect than N/N/N etc or S/S/S etc. Alternating polarity reinforces the electromagnetic effect by producing stronger eddy currents in the metal spool. The eddy currents produce their own magnetic field which opposes the fixed magnet field  -basically Newton's Third Law of electromagnetics:
The Left hand Rule (iirc)



Does that make it clearer or more confusing :-\

Tiddlerbasher


Gfish

The text makes it clear. The diagram not so much. Always wondered what exactly is an electromagnetic field?
Particles? Waves?
Gfish
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

oc1

#93
The next victim was a Shakespeare Criterion (12640) 60 yard non-levelwind with quick take-apart made about 1912.  It is nothing like the levelwind Criterion that was introduced about 1922 and remained popular for three or four decades.  I had never seen a non-levelwind Criterion but have since seen photos of a 100 yard version built the same way.





It was fairly clean with small scratches, but the gears had a horrible growl and the spool flange was bent on the left side.  You can see the gap between the  tail plate and flange where it is bent.  Apparently, the spool was damaged while it was out of the reel.  Maybe it was dropped or rolled off the table.  As it turned out, there is no connection between the growling gears and bent flange and one does not affect the other.







Still, it does not look bad and is about 105 years old.  I would want it for the shelf if I were an old reel collector, or even a young handsome and debonair reel collector.  It a shame really.



It was loaded with line and some magnets were glued under the hood for test casting.  It felt pretty good owing to the small diameter.  But, it would hardly cast at all and came up really short.  The retrieve was slow too.  

Later, it was put together on the bench without the gears it had really great free spool.  So good that I decided to do a gear transplant.





This is the subject Criterion 60 on the left and a 100 yard 1924 model Universal Precision (23046) on the right.  The Criterion 60 had an uncommon and dinky little gear set with 43 teeth on the main and 12 teeth on the pinion (3.6:1 gear ratio).  The Universal Precision had a common 47 tooth main and 12 tooth pinion (3.9:1 gear ratio).  

A reels with the 3.9:1 gear set were called a quadruple multiplier or just "Quad".  The quad gear sets were used by several manufacturers. They never said 4:1 gear ratio, just quadruple multiplier.  They may have been a little misleading, but there are good reasons not to have a 4:1 gear ratio with 48 teeth on the main and 12 teeth on the pinion.  With 48 and 12 a tooth on the main gear would contact the same pinion tooth with every revolution.  With 47 and 12 a tooth on the main gear will contact a different pinion tooth with every revolution.  So, the 47 and 12 gear set will have more uniform gear wear.  Still, they could have had the same effect with 49 and 12 gears.  

A quadruple multiplier seems to be a reasonable trade-off between retrieve speed and casting performance in a direct drive reel.  With higher gear ratios it is harder to get the spool and gears moving and harder to stop them.  All else being equal, a lower gear ratio reel will cast better.

Anyway, the quad gear set needed to go into the Criterion.  The bridge fit perfectly and the gear sleeve was centered in the collar on the outside of the head plate.  But, because the main is a larger diameter it could not properly mesh with the pinion.  The main gear needed to be moved away from the pinion.



To move the larger main gear away from the center just a millimeter or so a lot of things need to be modified.  The two holes where the bridge is bolted to the head plate cup have to be re-drilled or elongated.  The collar around the gear sleeve has to be removed, or one side ground away.  The main gear is going to hit the side of the head plate cup so that will need to be cut away.  And, the main gear is going to hit either a stand post or the forward quick take-apart post so that needs to be modified.  Sound familiar?  The same modifications have to be done to install a Koph clutch.  Might as well go whole-hog then.  



Doesn't look so nice now.  It's a shame really.  The head plate has a slot for the sliding bridge screw, there is a giant hole where the gear sleeve collar used to be and a cut out in the side of the cup where the gear protrudes.  The forward quick take-apart post was hitting the main gear and replaced with a post threaded into the frame ring (the square tube spacer was later replaced with round).  To stabilize the head plate cup it was screwed to the frame ring just above the main gear.



In the photo above, the brass nut on the lower left is the for the bridge screw that slides.  The brass nut on the left is the stationary bridge screw.  

The lower silver clutch plate is a linkage and is spring loaded to pull the bridge up and hold it in gear.  The spring loaded bridge was going to solve all my problems with reels jumping out of gear when fighting a fish.

The upper silver plate is the clutch lever.  Since the bridge is spring loaded, the lever needs a catch keep it from jumping into gear while casting.  The catch is sort of like the Ambassadeur clutch button hack where you depress the button and then rock it back into a slot so it cannot engage prematurely.  The photo below is the clutch when disengaged.  The lever has been depressed to move the bridge and then rocked back so it is jammed against the rear quick take-apart post and cannot be pushed up by the spring.





A leather washer under the gear sleeve collar makes it crank smoothly.  The uppermost brass thumb screw and the rear quick take-apart post open the side plate cup.

-steve

The Great Maudu

You're like the Mad Max of reel mods. Cool stuff.

oc1

#95
The first set of magnets were removed to accommodate the clutch.  The clutch plates were left as large a possible so there would be a place to put new magnets.  Forget anything I may have said in the past about magnets with a countersunk hole that can be secured with screws instead of glue.  The trouble with them is they have a huge hole in them so there is less neodymium.  If the space is limited, you waste space with the hole and screw.



So, it was back to the five minute epoxy.  I was having trouble getting enough magnets inside to make the reel usable for me.



The tail plate was filled up as well.  I forgot to take a photo but it looked something like this:



I think there a couple of thin ones glued to the top of the bridge too.

The reel cast like a bat coming out of a cave and was almost completely silent except for the sound of line whipping the guides.  It is really long.  Not just long for an old brass reel, long by any standard. 


mhc

Like your work Steve! Plan what you want to do, in this latest modification a faster gear transplant and a Koph clutch, then set about making it happen and if it doesn't 'fit' ... well, it just doesn't fit yet.  ;D ;D

Mike  
It can't be too difficult - a lot of people do it.

oc1

#97
Thank you Mike.

This thing was throwing a 3/8 ounce jig a solid 45 yards.  This with a cane pole rod too.  I thought I was imagining things and had to measure it.  Now I'm starting to question all my flawed assumptions.

The clutch performed flawlessly for several hours of repetitive casting.  It would stay put when disengaged and snap nicely back into gear after a cast,  Then a fish picked up the jig and it all went to hell in a hand bag.  The spring didn't help to keep it in gear at all.  Holding the lever forward or pulling it up could not keep it engaged either.  Lost the fish in the first ten seconds.

The clutch will need a new approach.  In the mean time, the clutch was removed and the bridge screws were locked down making it a direct drive again.  The magnets were removed again and new ones installed.  It doesn't take nearly as many now and the clicker could be put back in. As a direct drive, it still casts pretty well.  About 40 or 41 years with a 3/8 ounce jig.  Even as a direct drive it casts as well as any reel discussed on this thread including the factory Tournament Free Spool 1744 and 1740.  

Perhaps basic things like precision, tolerances and alignment trump all the gimmicks.

I've sort of had it with the magnets and do not intend to use them any more.  They're sort of fun to play with.  They're like little creatures that will jump out of your hand or jump across the bench to mate with their friends or hide under a pair of pliers.  But gluing them is tedious and messy.  Most of all I hate the notion of having to rely on space age neodymium encased in stainless steel.  The aesthetics of it all just stinks.  I need to either learn to cast without brakes or make a centrifugal brake.

This in the direct drive configuration.



-steve

Crow

Well,sometimes, success isn't measured by what we accomplish...but by what we do to TRY to accomplish it !
There's nothing wrong with a few "F's" on your record....Food, Fun, Flowers, Fishing, Friends, and Fun....to name just a few !

mhc

Quote from: oc1 on October 01, 2017, 09:09:18 AM
The upper silver plate is the clutch lever.  Since the bridge is spring loaded, the lever needs a catch keep it from jumping into gear while casting.  The catch is sort of like the Ambassadeur clutch button hack where you depress the button and then rock it back into a slot so it cannot engage prematurely.

Could you put a corresponding slot or notch of some sort on the 'front' of the lever so it could be lifted and rocked forward to lock it in the engaged position? I'm not going to pretend I know anything about the Koph clutch system - just throwing up an idea after looking and reading your description of what you've done so far.

Mike
It can't be too difficult - a lot of people do it.

oc1

The problem is the upper lever plate articulates on the lower plate that is attached to the bridge.  With a fish pulling on the line there was nothing I could do to hold it in gear using the lever.  I may have been possible to move and hold it in gear using the thumb screw that tensions the sliding bridge but you can't get your fingers under there with the handle spinning backward.

The very first use of free spool and a Koph clutch sort of arrangement did not have a lever.  They loosened the bridge screw, pushed the bridge out of the way, then retightened the screw.  This was done by tournament casters and everyone said it was not practical for actual fishing.

The Koph clutch arrangement is very simple and compact.  But maybe it's too simple.
-steve

Tightlines667

Steve, maybe a simplified tension spring arrangement would help solve the problem, or a place for the lever to lock, and be held in place with a flat spring.  I am thinking of a simplified miesselbach approach.  Then again, it might be easier to but anither Shakespear.  BTW, I have been grabbing a few.. early boxed Marhoff (1964), Ideal (1963), and a Jupitor to get me started.  I like the early level winds.

John
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

oc1

You'll have to explain John.  This is the only kind of Miesselbach I know about.

-steve

mo65

Quote from: oc1 on October 03, 2017, 12:10:00 PM
I've sort of had it with the magnets and do not intend to use them any more.  They're sort of fun to play with.  They're like little creatures that will jump out of your hand or jump across the bench to mate with their friends or hide under a pair of pliers.  But gluing them is tedious and messy.  Most of all I hate the notion of having to rely on space age neodymium encased in stainless steel.  The aesthetics of it all just stinks.  I need to either learn to cast without brakes or make a centrifugal brake.

   After all my experimentation with magnets for spool control...I have to say I've noted varying spool bearing lube viscosity worked just as well...and is much easier to perform...not to mention easily reversed. Keep experimenting Steve, all the great mods and improvements come from experimentation.8)
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


sdlehr

Excellent work, Steve. You've put a lot of time into this design, would not a search for a stiffer spring be the most logical remedy? Or another spring design finding some mechanical advantage to another orientation? Was there a similar problem with the original Kopf clutch? I have one or two upstairs, I will have to open them up and have a look in a few hours.

Sid
Sid Lehr
Veterinarian, fishing enthusiast, custom rod builder, reel collector